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TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Dude, you were claiming that certain Indigenous groups in other countries had it worse than Canada's.
I come from Saskatchewan, which is the Canadian heartland of Indigenous racism. And I can tell you with absolute certainty that you're wrong.
Listen to the Indigenous peoples of this nation, please, instead of concocting a false narrative for yourself on anecdotal evidence.
I've never been to Saskatchewan so I can't comment on that. For full disclosure I spent multiple years of my life living in both Vancouver and Montreal if that provides any better frame of reference. What I was saying in my post is that Canada absolutely DOES still have a problem with racism and discrimination against its indigenous peoples. Sure, I guess I can't say it is actually better or worse than the way Aboriginals are treated in Australia, or Native Americans are treated in the USA -- but those groups are absolutely also treated piss poor by their respective governments and their citizens.

But at the same time, Canada are a million times better at being a melting pot multicultural country than the US, or Australia, or the UK, or any other country you might want to name when it comes to other non-White races. That means there is obvious room for improvement there. It is not good that they still are lacking. But at the same time when we are talking about racism in general, across all races, Canada is doing a much better job than those other multicultural countries. Even though they're not perfect, that's still commendable. Especially when you take a look at how much worse it is in Australia, and then REALLY how much worse it is in America.
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,868
I would use the word tension or tense.

I am a POC, and while I also want to say things like loud, putting anything like that comes off wrong, because it is used against us. So I am double-edge sword code switching.

Tension, that's definitely closer to what I was looking for, yes! Thank you. I've been really tired today and haven't been able to put two thoughts together.

"Loud" begs a negative connotation because it's "bothersome", and this is anything but. :S
 

Faenix1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,114
Canada
If that were true, my black neighbour wouldnt of constantly felt the need to play the "what, because I'm black?" card everytime I disagreed with him or told him no.

I don't even have to mention the first nations, cause.. yeah.
 

Deleted member 68874

Account closed at user request
Banned
May 10, 2020
10,441
I legitimately don't even know where to start with all this, so I'll just say that you're wrong and hope someone can be more verbose in response while my brain recovers.


Someone once explained to me that part of this was due to the fact that the relationship between the federal government and the Indigenous bands was/is as opaque as it can be. Transparency in how the government and the bands co-ordinate is often not forthcoming and that can encourage bad actors to manipulate that fact for their own gain, sadly.
But what would resolve a lot of that is some autonomy. I've heard stories about how wealthy Indigenous people want to grow the prosperity of the bands they left in order to go make prosperity for themselves and were shut out completely by the government. The federal and provincial governments seem dead-set on dictating a LOT of terms regarding what can and can't happen on a reserve, so it very effectively turns Indigenous reservations, the small carved-out chunks of Indigenous ancestral homelands, into permanent welfare states, whether the people living there like it or not, and the only way to expect better is seemingly through assimilation into white-majority Canada. It's an insidious and vicious cycle: stay and suffer at the hands of the government, or willingly accept the erosion of your culture and relinquish your ties to your own home. Either way, the Indigenous always lose.

I saw that you said in a later post you grew up in Saskatchewan, perhaps my personal experiences have differed to yours in regards to outward indigenous racism as I grew up in BC. My tribe however is in Saskatchewan and that's where my parents were born and raised. I'm in no way saying that indiginous racism in BC doesnt exist, the Highway of Tears is a dark stain on the province for example.

It's incredibly hard to say how to fix the issue with regards to the reserves. For instance I remember a little over 5 years ago that it was revealed a local chief made over $900,000 in a year when his band had less than 100 people in it. You're also correct in that Bands aren't able to do whatever they want with the reserve land, so it's incredibly difficult to for reserves to grow economically. Some bands are able to build and grow economically, Tsawwassen Mills Shopping Centre is a pretty recent example nearby for me.

To be honest I'm not sure on why some bands prosper and some don't, but you are right that it seems it's mostly a lose-lose situation for most indiginous people. Which really bums me out as there are hundreds of bands all across Canada that are struggling to keep their culture alive. I'm also not the most informed on how indiginous people are treated in Eastern Canada.

I don't know if you're indiginous or not but it's nice to see somebody know the situation a lot of bands face in Canada right now.

My Grandma was in a residential school in her youth and I've had the privilege through school in my youth to go and see customs/traditions of multiple different bands be celebrated. I'd say that's progress, but there is still more to be done.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
I saw that you said in a later post you grew up in Saskatchewan, perhaps my personal experiences have differed to yours in regards to outward indigenous racism as I grew up in BC. My tribe however is in Saskatchewan and that's where my parents were born and raised. I'm in no way saying that indiginous racism in BC doesnt exist, the Highway of Tears is a dark stain on the province for example.

Make no mistake, I'm a white man (often call myself "the most well-read and sophisticated kind of white trash", in fact). But in this province, you'd either have to have both blackout blinders on and wax impacted into your eardrum not to see or hear the racism on a daily basis, or you'd have to be directly contributing to it. I know where most white people here fall on that spectrum. I do what I can, where I can.

It's incredibly hard to say how to fix the issue with regards to the reserves. For instance I remember a little over 5 years ago that it was revealed a local chief made over $900,000 in a year when his band had less than 100 people in it. You're also correct in that Bands aren't able to do whatever they want with the reserve land, so it's incredibly difficult to for reserves to grow economically. Some bands are able to build and grow economically, Tsawwassen Mills Shopping Centre is a pretty recent example nearby for me.

I look at that example, and I see something that also benefits white people, so it's an easy puzzle to solve regarding why it got approved to be built. Perhaps that's the cynic in me, but on this topic, it's damn tough not to be.

To be honest I'm not sure on why some bands prosper and some don't, but you are right that it seems it's mostly a lose-lose situation for most indiginous people. Which really bums me out as there are hundreds of bands all across Canada that are struggling to keep their culture alive. I'm also not the most informed on how indiginous people are treated in Eastern Canada.

I can't speak to that personally, but considering what they've been doing to the French-speaking minority there, I can't imagine the Indigenous have it any better when they'll go after other white people for the language they speak.

Indigenous people all over the country have debated what to do extensively, but a lot of it seems to come down to self-determination first and foremost. They want out from under the federal government's thumb, and I certainly can't blame them. I'm a firm supporter of decolonization movements and hope they see some justice and a return to some semblance of Indigenous sovereignty in my lifetime.

I don't know if you're indiginous or not but it's nice to see somebody know the situation a lot of bands face in Canada right now.

My Grandma was in a residential school in her youth and I've had the privilege through school in my youth to go and see customs/traditions of multiple different bands be celebrated. I'd say that's progress, but there is still more to be done.
Ignorance is poison, after all. I had no reason NOT to be informed on the subject and their situation is as much a part of Canadian politics as any other. I figured it'd be wrong not to hear about how politics intersects with them and I learned a lot from all those conversations. How could I know whether or not I'm inadvertently doing them harm with my political choices if I didn't even care enough to hear them out instead of just assuming I was doing what was best, right?
 

Dragonyeuw

Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,375
I'm reminded of an experience when I was attending Uni in Nova Scotia as an int'l student. One of our first days there getting me settled in, we went into a local diner and holy fuck. My recollection of it is we were basically the only POCs in the joint. Maybe its paranoia but we were sat in the middle of the room and the stares we got man....I could just feel tension so thick it was like I could reach out and touch it. One of the most bizarre feelings I can recall, going back 20 plus years.

I also dated an indigenous girl at the uni and she told me some gut-wrenching stories about Mi'kmaq oppression in Canada. She's since gone on to a career in Academia representing indigenous students in the region.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
You non-Americans need to understand:

It can happen where you live. And the denial of your oppression is the first step towards it.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,129
I've never experienced as much unfiltered racism as when I lived in Québec. Everything from "Go back to your country" to "You're stealing our college spots".

I loved my time there but that's pretty disconnected from what I saw there.
 

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
I did not expect a right wing leader to even acknowledge that the US itself does have these issues. So that's progress, I suppose.

You non-Americans need to understand:

It can happen where you live. And the denial of your oppression is the first step towards it.

A lot of countries really get off the hook with their own skeletons in the closet with the way this topic at large is covered in basic education around the world. The Americas gets the bulk of attention when it comes to historic racism and oppression of indigenous populations while the rest get little more than a footnote. Scandinavia with the Sami population for instance which continued well into the 20th century.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,658
Canada
What a fucking moron.

At least he's handling the pandemic by listening to people who know what needs to be done, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. Doug Ford isn't doing a good job, he's doing a better job than we thought Doug Ford would.
 

Deleted member 68874

Account closed at user request
Banned
May 10, 2020
10,441
I figured it'd be wrong not to hear about how politics intersects with them and I learned a lot from all those conversations. How could I know whether or not I'm inadvertently doing them harm with my political choices if I didn't even care enough to hear them out instead of just assuming I was doing what was best, right?

You pretty much nailed it here.
Doing our best to understand what our political choices entail and how they'll impact the various minorities in this country is what we as citizens of this country need to do.
 

Aske

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,578
Canadia
Utter fucking bullshit. "Kill the Indian in the child" wants a word with you. Racism is absolutely in our system, we put it there, and we're a long way from ripping it out.
 

Reizzz

Member
Jun 19, 2019
1,813
c9f00BW_d.webp


He's still an idiot regardless of how he handles Covid-19 isssues
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Once again, it's a Conservative politician who lets asshole for mouth and turd for brain opens his mouth to let out the hot ignorant and inaccurate statement.

Conservatism is a god damn disease, an infectious disease.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,889
What a fucking moron.

At least he's handling the pandemic by listening to people who know what needs to be done, but I've said it before and I'll say it again. Doug Ford isn't doing a good job, he's doing a better job than we thought Doug Ford would.

He's going ahead with more LTC home privitization while using COVID response as a PR stunt.

The entire party is evil.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,369
Kitchener, ON
This would be a completely tone-deaf thing to say even if it were true... which, it sure as fuck isn't.
Like why would you lord this over a nation whose government is literally wielding racism over its citizenry like a cudgel?

Completely thoughtless. Doug Ford managed to give the middle finger to the United States and Canada's indigenous populations in one statement.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,658
Canada
He's going ahead with more LTC home privitization while using COVID response as a PR stunt.

The entire party is evil.
Yeah, someone let the old doug out of his cage. What the actual flying fuck.

The only outbreaks in my city are in private owned Long term care homes, because money and medicine don't fucking mix.

(Also LTC freaks me out every time I see it, because our busses are called the LTC, London Transit Comission)
 

Brandson

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,219
I know one police officer in Toronto. That person is an incredibly nice and thoughtful person, but if you get her talking about her job, she is racist as fuck and doesn't appear to realize it. The things she casually says would get anyone fired from any other job.
 

shadowkat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,903
He's going ahead with more LTC home privitization while using COVID response as a PR stunt.

The entire party is evil.

He's going ahead with the privatization even after the scathing reports from the military about the deplorable conditions in LTC homes. A report he's "horrified and angered" about, yet let's go ahead with more privatization!! In the midst of a pandemic that has shown how bad private run facilities are and so many have died.
 

jayu26

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,592
Well decent Dougie last for couple of months. It's back to our regularly scheduled program.
 

rashbeep

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,464
the second i step outside of a metropolitan city, i'm met with overt racism

i've been all over the country

it's shit everywhere
 

dotpatrick

Member
Oct 28, 2017
308
Was your country founded on colonialism? Yes? You have deep-rooted, systemic racism in your country. While this exactly the type of thing that I expect from someone like Doug Ford, it isn't an uncommon opinion within Canada.

The Saskatoon police was literally picking up indigenous people in the dead of winter, driving them to the middle of fucking no where and leaving them there with no way to get back home. None of those motherfuckers have been held to account for specifically causing those deaths.
 

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,133
Toronto
Was your country founded on colonialism? Yes? You have deep-rooted, systemic racism in your country. While this exactly the type of thing that I expect from someone like Doug Ford, it isn't an uncommon opinion within Canada.
"Bu-bu-but, Canada was the end destination of the Underground Railroad!" /delusional white Canadians
 

crimzonflame

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,758
I know one police officer in Toronto. That person is an incredibly nice and thoughtful person, but if you get her talking about her job, she is racist as fuck and doesn't appear to realize it. The things she casually says would get anyone fired from any other job.
I feel the same way about white people I met from outside of the GTA. They seem like normal, nice people but as soon as the topic of Natives come up they turn into a totally different person. It was a real eye opener growing up. Made me wonder how and where we got our reputation for being polite and friendly from.
 

Deleted member 4452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,377
America is the worst thing to happen to Canadian society. It allows us to just sit on our laurels and not attempt any introspection. Our cops aren't as trigger-happy against minorities (but still discriminate in many ways) so supposedly we're all swell. Many/most white Canadians probably believe what Ford is saying.

Let me rephrase that: Canada's white supremacist/colonial roots are the worst thing to happen to Canadian society, but American being bigger and badder obfuscates that for too many Canadians.
 

Euler007

Member
Jan 10, 2018
5,045
As long as you speak white (before I get banned from some mod getting this out of context, this is an insult aimed at french canadians for speaking french instead of english, mostly during the 20th century). I guess 300 years of attempted assimiliation ranging from the overt to the subvert doesn't count as systemic.
 

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,940
Montreal
I've never experienced as much unfiltered racism as when I lived in Québec. Everything from "Go back to your country" to "You're stealing our college spots".

I loved my time there but that's pretty disconnected from what I saw there.

Quebec, as a society, tends to have an intrinsic fear of the "other" built into it and it has become more and more obvious the longer I live here. It informs so many racist and xenophobic things at the government level, the police level, and other levels that I've heard so many other people have an experience similar to yours and yet large swathes of the population are in complete denial about it.

It would be less of an issue if Quebec was better at recognizing it as a problem and working on steps to remedy things long term but instead our population decides to elect an unquestionably racist and xenophobic government and large amounts of the population become complicit by trying to play it down. The thing is, you don't even have to go back 2 years to see how racist some movements, such as the movement to ban "religious symbols", really was.

It was cool to ban religious symbols as long as the white people got to keep all their crosses.
 
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Deleted member 4452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,377
Quebec, as a society, tends to have an intrinsic fear of the "other" built into it and it becomes more and more obvious the longer I live here. It informs so many racists and xenophobic things at the government level, the police level, and other levels that I've heard so many other people have an experience similar to yours and yet large swathes of the population are in complete denial about it.

It would be less of an issue if Quebec was better at recognizing it as a problem and working on steps to remedy things long term but instead our population decides to elect an unquestionably racist and xenophobic government and large amounts of the population become complicit by trying to play it down. The thing is, you don't even have to go back 2 years to see how racist some movements, such as the movement to ban "religious symbols", really was.

It was cool to ban religious symbols as long as the white people got to keep all their crosses.
I love Montreal, but I could do without the rest of Quebec.

I still remember the HĂ©rouxville BS. The little town that was very concerned about the 'Muslim problem'. The little town that doesn't have a single Muslim person living there.
 
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Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Remember, if you're a Canadian more focused on arguing that other countries are worse off than your country instead of acknowledging the rooted racism of your country first and foremost (or really, that's kind of just the only thing you should be talking about instead of attempting to downplay it at all), you're being a dumb bitch Canadian. Don't be a dumb bitch Canadian, be a smart Canadian.
 
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DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
It's actually sad.

It's just as bad, if not worse with the first Nations in Canada. They just don't have the same loud, unified voice that black Americans have right now.

For an election official to come out and say there is no issue is crazy. It also means we are much further away from making any progress on it.
 

TheOMan

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,122
The Saskatoon police was literally picking up indigenous people in the dead of winter, driving them to the middle of fucking no where and leaving them there with no way to get back home. None of those motherfuckers have been held to account for specifically causing those deaths.

I did not hear about this, that's murder.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,325
New York
Sorry I disagree with take.

Some nations closets are filled with far more dirt on foreign policies that span for centuries compare to the rest of world.

It's not even close of a comparison

It's not a comparison at all.

The metric we use can't be "As long as you're not among the worst with regard for civil rights abuses and the poor treatment of minorities or indigenous peoples then feel free to ignore your own situation whilst castigating others."
 

KG

Banned
Oct 12, 2018
1,598
c9f00BW_d.webp


He's still an idiot regardless of how he handles Covid-19 isssues

Really true. I grew up in which is very multicultural so while I have seen racism, it seemed less and less as I grew up. Then I moved to Alberta for a bit and the vile shitty attitudes I saw towards indigenous people completely shocked me. I was taken aback about this. And this was not only from white people there but brown and black people too. Then when I came back to Toronto I was more aware of these issues and started seeing more of these situations (not as much as in Alberta though).

I worked as a co-op student for a government institute. In our floor/dept, there was one First Nations employee. Everyone in the dept always side eyes him and it seemed like nobody respected him. But from everything Id seen, he did his job well and was super professional and I understood it was just fucken racism from everyone of all races towards him. The saddest part was for First Nations awareness/celebration day that was going on, he was setting up the event and no one even wanted to assist him. It was myself and the other coop students that helped him. But some other dudes bday, oh everyone is on board and celebrating in the conference rooms with cake and food at the drop of the hat.
 

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
Was your country founded on colonialism? Yes? You have deep-rooted, systemic racism in your country. While this exactly the type of thing that I expect from someone like Doug Ford, it isn't an uncommon opinion within Canada.

The Saskatoon police was literally picking up indigenous people in the dead of winter, driving them to the middle of fucking no where and leaving them there with no way to get back home. None of those motherfuckers have been held to account for specifically causing those deaths.

Jesus, when did that happen?
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,161
Well that didn't take long, he's backed down aka read an empty prepared statement from one of his handlers.

 

Spacejaws

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,816
Scotland
Anecdotal but the most racist person I ever met is Canadian. Literally went from being a good friend in a bar to trying to attack a black guy in a bar for 'ruining Canada' shouting and screaming at this random stranger.

This is in UK and it was surreal how fucking racist he was and never showed any of it until that moment.