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mogwai00

Member
Mar 24, 2018
1,248
I suppose to put it another way:
In Doom Eternal - When I ran out of Shotgun ammo, I just chainsawed a grunt and kept using Shotgun. I found little reason to not alter this cycle.
IN 2016 - When I ran low on ammo, I swapped to other weapons as I wanted my limited Saw resource to take out the big annoying enemy I know is coming in a later wave, while also topping off much of my weapon wheel that I would have exhausted by that point.

You can pause the action for a moment and chase down a zombie in Eternal with endless Saw recharges, but in 2016 the Saw was finite in arena fights and often I found saving it for emergencies or holding off for the largest brute served best. I preferred the decision-making in 2016 personally.

Yep, that's the other side of the coin.
In both games I'm mostly a Super-Shotgun, Ballista (Gauss) and Rocket Launcher guy. I do use other weapons, but just as support.
In Eternal, BTW, thanks to those endless Saw recharges, I basically have infinite ammos and less reasons to move from my fav trio.
 

Dangerblade

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,643
Did anybody see decino's UN run livestream last night? Some weird shit went down...

- An Arachnatron catapulting itself in the sun
- A Mancubus corpse breakdancing
- A Doom Hunter being glory killed whilst still attached to its sled
- An Aracnatron deciding not to fight decino during one of the Combat Encounters, instead phasing through a blocked off wall and ignoring him, softlocking the game
- The chainsaw deciding to use itself twice (each time NOT using up a charge)

Also, I don't remember this being mentioned in the thread, but he mentioned an Easter egg on Super Gore Nest where you can fight 2 Tyrants if you find 3 hidden happy birthday balloons...

Been meaning to give my thoughts in here. Absolutely adore the game, preferring it to Doom 2016. The combat and traversal are great, the environments varied, monster design excellent, the fucking MUSIC of course (vinyl release when!?). I just need to finish 4 weapon masteries and do the extra life mode and I'm done with it (until we get more content, at least!)

Can't wait for Doom Eternal: Revengeance
 

MonsterJail

Self requested temp ban
Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,337
Until I realize there's no way I killed that many tough enemies at the same time and knew that shenanigans were afoot. So I Google and of course it turns out there is no totem and there's a specific enemy I had to kill to stop the spawning and buffing. Will gee whiz game it would've been great if you told me about this new enemy like you did for every other enemy. It's amazing I didn't end up accidentally killing the archville during my failed runs.(I did wonder where that fire stuff was coming from)

So yeah I end up rushing to the Archvile and that was the end of that combat arena...wow.

Given how cool the Archvile reveal was in the prerelease videos it's a shame that he just shows up hiding in an dark alcove in the main game, felt like I only really knew what it was because I played other doom games and already knew he was in this one. Bit of a bullet sponge so was a prime crucible target for me once I had that

 

Falus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,656
Level 6/13 série 2. I want to finish it within the first two weeks so I can have enough time to upgrade the archvile set. I don't even know why I do this since I don't even like battle mode much but ... collecting is entertaining
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
In my experience it is actually way more about WHAT you liked about Doom 2016 instead of simply if you liked 2016 or not. If you liked optimizing the combat loop in 2016 then eternal will 100 % be your game, while if you liked 2016 simply for running around and shooting demons in high speed action, you may very well end up hating Eternal.

Not sure what you're getting at really? You're fighting demons almost constantly in Doom Eternal and just like Doom 2016 there is some pause between battles where you explore stuff. I fail to see any radical change to the gameplay loop in Eternal, it's still very much about fighting demons with 5 minutes of pause in between fights where you focus on movement and exploration.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
Not sure what you're getting at really? You're fighting demons almost constantly in Doom Eternal and just like Doom 2016 there is some pause between battles where you explore stuff. I fail to see any radical change to the gameplay loop in Eternal, it's still very much about fighting demons with 5 minutes of pause in between fights where you focus on movement and exploration.
I think it's telling that, early on, one of the most common criticisms was that you didn't feel like the Doom Slayer, like the object of fear of demons and all.

Doom 2016 worked as a "regular power fantasy" even on Ultra Violence (didn't play Nightmare in that game, only in Eternal). If you wanted you could really explore mechanics like weapon switching and stuff like that, but as far as just beating the game goes, you can pretty much do whatever and it'll work. As long as you keep moving and shooting, you're good.

Eternal is far more demanding on Ultra Violence and Nightmare. in order to live the power fantasy in Eternal, you have to earn it. You need to play in a way that will sell the idea that you're the Doom Slayer, that you're worthy being feared, basically. So you have to exploit weaknesses, especially early on. You have to use the chainsaw, you have to switch weapons, and so on. The game opens up a lot more from the moment you get the Meat Hook, but it's still quite demanding.

Things you could do in 2016 if you so desired, if you wanted to dig deeper into the combat system, are part of the regular gameplay loop in Eternal, and some people find it a bit too much, it feels overwhelming to them.
 

MonsterJail

Self requested temp ban
Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,337
Finished last night, UV on PS4

Was really not feeling it about 2-3 levels in, when I was still learning the game and I didn't have as many tools, everything felt a bit fiddly as it was introducing new concepts

Then at about the half way point when I had enough upgrades, weapons and skills, it really clicked and was loving it. Felt like I had a lot more options in fights and I was a lot better at managing resources and dealing with the different enemy mixes. Doom 2016 got a little boring towards the end and this manages to keep things a more interesting

Was a bit dissapointed in the story compared to 2016, mostly bits relating to the Sentinels (I really tried to chew through those lore entries) and the 'mortally challenged' jokes, some of the later Argent energy and Hayden stuff was cool though

A mostly filled barrel o' fun for me
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,140
Not sure what you're getting at really? You're fighting demons almost constantly in Doom Eternal and just like Doom 2016 there is some pause between battles where you explore stuff. I fail to see any radical change to the gameplay loop in Eternal, it's still very much about fighting demons with 5 minutes of pause in between fights where you focus on movement and exploration.

To me, if I compare the combat on normal difficulty between 2016 and eternal it is radically different.

In 2016 on normal, you had quite a few tools (different weapons, chainsaw etc.), but you could kinda use those tools as you saw fit. Run around only using 2 weapons if you want? That works. Only use the chainsaw as an emergency weapon when you really need ammo? That works. You could get by easily by just running around shooting demons. It would not be optimal, but you will have a good time and complete the game.

Eternal on normal on the other hand, gives you many more tools (dashes, different grenades, flamethrower) but also changes the balance of the fights in such a way that you NEED to use all these tools. Only use 2 weapons this time? You run out of ammo so fast that you are screwed. Only try to use the chainsaw as an emergency weapon this time? You run out of ammo and are screwed. You HAVE to integrate tools like the chainsaw and the flamethrower in your combat flow, just running around shooting demons is not how you can play this game. And that is even not talking about enemies like the marauder that force you to play differently.

It's a radically different flow of the combat, doom 2016 on normal demands A LOT less of the player and you can screw around a lot more than eternal on normal, and some people that loved 2016 will hate eternal because of that.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
To me, if I compare the combat on normal difficulty between 2016 and eternal it is radically different.

In 2016 on normal, you had quite a few tools (different weapons, chainsaw etc.), but you could kinda use those tools as you saw fit. Run around only using 2 weapons if you want? That works. Only use the chainsaw as an emergency weapon when you really need ammo? That works. You could get by easily by just running around shooting demons. It would not be optimal, but you will have a good time and complete the game.

Eternal on normal on the other hand, gives you many more tools (dashes, different grenades, flamethrower) but also changes the balance of the fights in such a way that you NEED to use all these tools. Only use 2 weapons this time? You run out of ammo so fast that you are screwed. Only try to use the chainsaw as an emergency weapon this time? You run out of ammo and are screwed. You HAVE to integrate tools like the chainsaw and the flamethrower in your combat flow, just running around shooting demons is not how you can play this game. And that is even not talking about enemies like the marauder that force you to play differently.

It's a radically different flow of the combat, doom 2016 on normal demands A LOT less of the player and you can screw around a lot more than eternal on normal, and some people that loved 2016 will hate eternal because of that.

Ah ok, now I'm getting you. I kind of agree I guess. Perhaps I just assumed that all fans of Doom 2016 would want a very frantic and difficult experience, even more so than before.

Maybe it's like Dark Souls and Sekiro kind of? Many people were turned off by the mandatory parry mechanic and the unforgiving mastery of the combat.
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,140
Ah ok, now I'm getting you. I kind of agree I guess. Perhaps I just assumed that all fans of Doom 2016 would want a very frantic and difficult experience, even more so than before.

Maybe it's like Dark Souls and Sekiro kind of? Many people were turned off by the mandatory parry mechanic and the unforgiving mastery of the combat.

Actually my feelings about doom eternal and sekiro are quite similar. Loved the predecessors a ton, liked eternal and sekiro less because I didn't like the way of playing they force you into. Still good games, but just not as much my thing as the previous games.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,483
Feel like something glitched out with my XP, have every weekly challenge but the 5 matches in battlemode one cleared and somehow only got through the first two tiers of the pass.
 

TeenageFBI

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,226
I have a bug where a secret encounter is listed as uncompleted but the actual secret encounter thingy is missing when I go back to the level via mission select. Guess there's nothing I can do until it's patched.

edit: Oh wait, I think the map itself is bugged. It shows that the secret encounter still exists but I continued through the level and found that the ACTUAL missing encounter is still uncompleted.
 
Last edited:

Carnby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,236
Maybe its cause im tired of dying or something but have some of you noticed a dip in quality in the final stretch of the game?

I liked the final stretch of the game much more than the beginning. And I actually like the final boss. I don't understand the complaints it gets.

Edit: I just realized something else I don't like about Eternal. Unlike 2016, the demons aren't afraid of you. It removes the same charm that 2016 had.
 

phant0m

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,361
To me, if I compare the combat on normal difficulty between 2016 and eternal it is radically different.

In 2016 on normal, you had quite a few tools (different weapons, chainsaw etc.), but you could kinda use those tools as you saw fit. Run around only using 2 weapons if you want? That works. Only use the chainsaw as an emergency weapon when you really need ammo? That works. You could get by easily by just running around shooting demons. It would not be optimal, but you will have a good time and complete the game.

Eternal on normal on the other hand, gives you many more tools (dashes, different grenades, flamethrower) but also changes the balance of the fights in such a way that you NEED to use all these tools. Only use 2 weapons this time? You run out of ammo so fast that you are screwed. Only try to use the chainsaw as an emergency weapon this time? You run out of ammo and are screwed. You HAVE to integrate tools like the chainsaw and the flamethrower in your combat flow, just running around shooting demons is not how you can play this game. And that is even not talking about enemies like the marauder that force you to play differently.

It's a radically different flow of the combat, doom 2016 on normal demands A LOT less of the player and you can screw around a lot more than eternal on normal, and some people that loved 2016 will hate eternal because of that.

Yup, 100% agree and it's why despite enjoying Eternal, I think 2016 is a better game. The changes to the combat flow end up (imo) significantly reducing the amount of player agency during combat. 2016 threw demons at you and let you choose how to carve 'em up, basically. On harder difficulties you had to be more precise with movements and aiming, along with making smarter choices about the weapons you used for the situation. Eternal? You *have* to do what the game wants for each enemy/encounter or it punishes you for it.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,752



Compositionally this is one of the simpler tracks of the game, but god

This dethroned Vega Core for me as my favorite final level track in the series

THIS IS SO GOOD
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
I can't believe I hate this game.

Doom 2016 didn't need dashing wall climbing and EXTREME ammo management.

I really don't want to have to bump it down to normal. Hell I just might break the controller.
 

Alpende

Member
Oct 26, 2017
953
I really liked it apart from the last 2 bossfights. I feel like the boss fights were the weakest part of the game. I just used my sentinel armor after a couple of tries because I was not having fun.

Other than that, amazing game. Especially if you keep beating waves on enemies and you get in that flow of ripping and tearing.
 

Carnby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,236
Yup, 100% agree and it's why despite enjoying Eternal, I think 2016 is a better game. The changes to the combat flow end up (imo) significantly reducing the amount of player agency during combat. 2016 threw demons at you and let you choose how to carve 'em up, basically. On harder difficulties you had to be more precise with movements and aiming, along with making smarter choices about the weapons you used for the situation. Eternal? You *have* to do what the game wants for each enemy/encounter or it punishes you for it.

Well said. To add to this, even in Doom 1 and 2, you could play only using the shotgun 99% of the time, and still do well and still have fun. And this is yet another example of how 2016 perfectly tapped into the originals while making an entirely fresh experience.

I can't believe I hate this game.

Doom 2016 didn't need dashing wall climbing and EXTREME ammo management.

I really don't want to have to bump it down to normal. Hell I just might break the controller.

Is this your first playthrough? Bump it down friend. Trust me. You'll enjoy it more and Hurt Me offers plenty of challenge for the first playthrough, no matter your previous Doom experience.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,752
Yup, 100% agree and it's why despite enjoying Eternal, I think 2016 is a better game. The changes to the combat flow end up (imo) significantly reducing the amount of player agency during combat. 2016 threw demons at you and let you choose how to carve 'em up, basically. On harder difficulties you had to be more precise with movements and aiming, along with making smarter choices about the weapons you used for the situation. Eternal? You *have* to do what the game wants for each enemy/encounter or it punishes you for it.

I don't see how any of this doesn't apply to Eternal more than it does to 2016.

On harder difficulties in 2016, once you've gotten the Super Shotgun and Gauss Cannon's Siege Mode, you've basically beaten the game. How does that equate to smarter decision making?
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,117
Buenos Aires, Argentina
I don't see how any of this doesn't apply to Eternal more than it does to 2016.

On harder difficulties in 2016, once you've gotten the Super Shotgun and Gauss Cannon's Siege Mode, you've basically beaten the game. How does that equate to smarter decision making?
Not to mention once you have a full arsenal in Eternal you can improvise to your heart's content with like 90% of the enemies. The whole restricting aspect of the gameplay, caring about weakpoints and such, only matters for the first few levels.

Nice avatar btw.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,483
I don't get how the last one worked? He didn't seem to raise his shield at all?
that last one is actually lucky timing, he started his axe swing a split second after i tossed the grenade. He starts to raise his shield once that animation ends but i already shot at him cocksure hed be turning around so my rockets connected before he could fully block
EV-qzlZXkAAVDS7

EV-q6NXWsAE-Ktj


I find messing with the lockon rockets you tend to be lucky if he gets up close, since he'll probably shift to another animation that gives your rockets time to connect before he pops his shield
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
Yup, 100% agree and it's why despite enjoying Eternal, I think 2016 is a better game. The changes to the combat flow end up (imo) significantly reducing the amount of player agency during combat. 2016 threw demons at you and let you choose how to carve 'em up, basically. On harder difficulties you had to be more precise with movements and aiming, along with making smarter choices about the weapons you used for the situation. Eternal? You *have* to do what the game wants for each enemy/encounter or it punishes you for it.

What? If anything Eternal wants you to improvise with a lot of options at hand. You can make almost anything work in any given situation as long as you have the skill needed. Battles are so dynamic at times that it's impossible to set your mind to just one strategy. How they've improved the AI of the lesser enemies is a good example of this. Casually you might use these as fodder and leave them alone for the most part but if a Whiplash shows up you have to start paying attention to them because they will support a strong movement based enemy. And this happens constantly during fights where you have to adapt your playstyle and make the most of what you have at hand. There's never any strict rule book to follow in order to succeed. I think both Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal are wonderful games when it comes to involving the playing in a lot of interest and skillful decision making. They are both top tier games within their genre.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,036
I started a new game on Nightmare and I'm kinda bored. I miss all my stuff and don't really wanna unlock everything again. I really hope they release some kind of Bloody Palace DLC where you basically just go through a ton of Slayer Gates.
 

Dever

Member
Dec 25, 2019
5,345
Beat Extra-lives mode today on Nightmare. Game continues to be incredible. What made the difference in my skill level from regular Nightmare to beating Extra-lives was properly learning to switch between the grenades, I never bothered with the Ice grenade on my first few playthroughs.

Although I think I'm done now. Only thing left is Ultra-Nightmare, and yeah... I still lost dozens of 1UPs, so I don't think UN would be much fun to attempt.

Question though, how do you access the Cultist Base master level? I saw a Youtube playthrough of it, but I only see Arc Complex in the game.
 

Juan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,435
Oh good, they release a patch for the multiplayer.

It's not like they need to patch the fact that the game can hard crash whenever you go beyond 90 FOV on consoles. Oh good.

Hmmm, I'm playing with max FOV on console, beaten the campaign several times and have been playing some multiplayer, the game never crashed.

Are you really sure it's due to the FOV? Isn't you console over-heating maybe and making it the game having to stop? I'm playing on OG Xbox One, and again, never any issue with the game so far.
 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
Yeah I'm definitely not a fan. I can't believe it. I took the difficulty down but it's now not hard nor fun. They took Doom and messed with it too much. It doesn't feel fun nor rewarding to play like doom 2016. That formula was tight and felt well put together.

It's just nonstop it reminds me of how wolfenstein new order regressed into the colossus. Both games were fucked with too much and got hub worlds.

I'm not saying it's bad but it's not nearly as realized or cohesive like doom 2016.
 

Dever

Member
Dec 25, 2019
5,345
Yeah I'm definitely not a fan. I can't believe it. I took the difficulty down but it's now not hard nor fun. They took Doom and messed with it too much. It doesn't feel fun nor rewarding to play like doom 2016. That formula was tight and felt well put together.

It's just nonstop it reminds me of how wolfenstein new order regressed into the colossus. Both games were fucked with too much and got hub worlds.

I'd urge you to play through the game once on HMP, and then go again on UV. Eternal is like an arcade game, you master it over multiple playthroughs. I worked up from HMP to Nightmare, and can say pretty confidently that the combat loop is sublimely designed, but it will require practice. A common complaint is there's too much to keep track of, and that's somewhat true, but all those things will become second nature the more you play. Here's a good video of high-level play:

 

Deleted member 22750

Oct 28, 2017
13,267
I'd urge you to play through the game once on HMP, and then go again on UV. Eternal is like an arcade game, you master it over multiple playthroughs. I worked up from HMP to Nightmare, and can say pretty confidently that the combat loop is sublimely designed, but it will require practice. A common complaint is there's too much to keep track of, and that's somewhat true, but all those things will become second nature the more you play. Here's a good video of high-level play:


I just got the double barrel

I'm not going to stop until I'm finished.

I started on the 2nd hardest difficulty and it straight up kicked my ass. I'm just burned out for the day. It took me like 60 tries to beat the first purple rune challenge.

I bumped the difficulty down and now it's easy.
 

Kahoots

Member
Feb 15, 2018
985
Need more content. The fundamentals are so well balanced there's no reason they can't give us slayer gate like encounters in existing arenas with spawns dialled up to 11.
 

Carnby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,236
I just got the double barrel

I'm not going to stop until I'm finished.

I started on the 2nd hardest difficulty and it straight up kicked my ass. I'm just burned out for the day. It took me like 60 tries to beat the first purple rune challenge.

I bumped the difficulty down and now it's easy.

Don't worry it will get more difficult. It just seems easy right now compared to what you were playing. I did the same thing.
 

Elliot Pudge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,499
this game is fucking masterful

except for the last boss, which may have been the worst boss fight ive ever fought against in my history of gaming

time to watch some replays and then load up a nightmare run
 

freetacos

Member
Oct 30, 2017
13,175
Bay Area, CA
Now that I've finished the game, I find myself watching quite a few speedruns of it. It's not only intriguing to see how people blow through the levels I struggled with, but also the game itself is intimidating/intense/scary in its tone, so it's somewhat soothing to see an expert just make a mockery out of it. Been watching Draqu quite a bit

 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,511
Eternal is a more demanding game so in that way it's a nice companion to 2016, which is comparatively breezy even on Nightmare. My problems with Eternal are pretty much the same I have with 2016, in that the activities between arenas are relatively boring with the exception of a couple highlights (but even then they could have used some "oomph"). I do like the platforming mechanics themselves though.

Also, I like 2016's multiplayer (after id's 6.66 patch) more than Battle Mode. An arena shooter model would have been cool with all of the dashing but I'm sure they tested that at some point and were like "nah."
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
I've played this game so much now that I'm at a point where I don't find Marauders too hard to deal with. Usually I bring them down in a couple of seconds, even on Nightmare. I'm close to mastering the wonderful "Doom dance" and it feels sooooo good.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,127
Chile
Holy shit, just tried Battlemode last night, it's pretty hard as a Doom Slayer (or I fight against a pretty good team of coodinated demons). Playing as a Demon was a bit easier but still hard. Pretty fun though
 
Sep 7, 2018
2,521
So I have a couple of questions:

First I'm stuck. I'm currently here https://youtu.be/Xz8_a47OetM?t=17726
But for me that window isn't broken so I can't swing across and shooting the glass will not break it. I've already gotten everything in this area so I don't know what's going on. What's the problem here? I seem to get stuck in this game a lot.

Second question is how do I increase my max health? I see in this walkthrough this guy has 175 HP while I only have a max of 125.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
Now that I've finished the game, I find myself watching quite a few speedruns of it. It's not only intriguing to see how people blow through the levels I struggled with, but also the game itself is intimidating/intense/scary in its tone, so it's somewhat soothing to see an expert just make a mockery out of it. Been watching Draqu quite a bit


He just uploaded a new video that's 30 minutes shorter. Each room clear has gotten way cleaner. The guy is a beast.


So I have a couple of questions:

First I'm stuck. I'm currently here https://youtu.be/Xz8_a47OetM?t=17726
But for me that window isn't broken so I can't swing across and shooting the glass will not break it. I've already gotten everything in this area so I don't know what's going on. What's the problem here? I seem to get stuck in this game a lot.

Second question is how do I increase my max health? I see in this walkthrough this guy has 175 HP while I only have a max of 125.
There's supposed to be an event that has two imps breaking through that window when you get close to it. You see it here: