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DOOM Eternal |OT| Hells Bells
- Thread starter AgentStrange
- Start date
Id normally agree, but this isn't really strategy. Its juggling cooldowns and radial wheels to abuse the same trick as fast as your reflexes allow.
I don't feel(yet) like this is a sandbox where experimentation is rewarded. Nor am I just hurling my choice of arsenal at the foes based on preference(2016). Instead I am doing 'the thing' based on necessity. I am punished if my cooldown is not ready or the wrong mod is equipped and my brief window of opportunity is lost to exploit.
I am only at the end of stage 2, and many argue it gets good in some level I have yet to see, but so far I'm not loving it(UV diff). 2016 definitely had its own flaws, and maybe things change but this feels pretty rigid in terms of combat flow so far.
I find the Super Shotgun is good for sheer close range damage output. Even on nightmare difficulty, it'll take down a Pinky in one shot if you're close enough, whereas the normal shotgun takes at least two shots. Also the upgrade that sets enemies on fire is useful for keeping your armour up.
But the standard shotgun is useful too (mostly for its sticky bombs). Unlike Doom 2016, every weapon is worth using depending on the situation.
Finished the second level and yup this is a good game. All the movement options feel great. Playing it at the normal difficulty and having a good time. Though I kind of have the same feeling as playing DOOM 16 where I find it kind of hard to play a lot in one sitting. Maybe it's always being near death that does it lol.
It's not a knock against all the people who are a little down on this game but watching all the Hugo Martin interviews on how to specifically enjoy and engage with Doom Eternal definitely helped in me thinking positively about it.
This game very much spells out how to play it and it's in your best interests to approach it that way. The fun is in the execution.
That being said, Fuck that Marauder. Is there any fast ways to practice fighting this hunk of cheap garbage? :P
This game very much spells out how to play it and it's in your best interests to approach it that way. The fun is in the execution.
That being said, Fuck that Marauder. Is there any fast ways to practice fighting this hunk of cheap garbage? :P
Yeah, I think this gets to the core of my issue with the combat (and to be clear, I'm mostly really enjoying it, but I don't think it's as "deep" as a lot of people are saying): I often don't feel like i'm being creative with a large toolbox, i feel like i'm just swapping between tools because i literally have to. it's a left hand dexterity challenge, and don't get me wrong that's fun in its own right a lot of the time, but it is not necessarily complex or layered. there are a few obvious cases where smart management feels rewarding, like making sure to pop the turrets off of arachnos with the sniper mod first, or dashing away from the hell knights with the auto-shotgun mod, but just as often the fights are so chaotic that i'm not really thinking about those things, i'm just methodically swapping between gun, chainsaw, glory, etc and throwing everything and the kitchen sink at enemies to keep them at bay.
it's often exciting, but a lot of it feels more like barely keeping your head above water than, say, a devil may cry or something, where you have a lot more freedom to tackle things both efficiently and creatively at once.
I think that, like a character action game, the game will be a lot more enjoyable once you have all of your upgrades and tools available at once (for the people not enjoying it ATM due to using tools out of necessity rather than creativity).
Just think of the first go around as a warmup. The "real" playthrough is the second go around with all of your tools.
Just think of the first go around as a warmup. The "real" playthrough is the second go around with all of your tools.
You have to get in the habit of using the chainsaw to get back ammo. Unlike Doom 2016, the chainsaw will auto recharge a single unit after use, so you don't need to find fuel to cut up smaller demons.
Just started. Going on Nightmare because that's how I played 2016.
Just finished the first level and wow, that was a lot more intense than I expected a first level to be. You're through a few tutorial hallways and then you're suddenly fighting for your life right away.
I'm liking the combat loop, but at the same time I feel like it's enforced pretty hard due to the hilariously low ammo capacity. I don't mind the high damage because it's Nightmare, but I was really expecting more ammo. What the hell, Doomguy? You roll into a hell-infested zone like a badass and you don't bother to pack more than 16 shells? How many demons were you planning to kill?
Basically, you *have* to use your chainsaw every x number of shots, or else you'll end up out of ammo and up against an Arachnotron (happened to me more than once already). You *have* to glory kill pretty often because your health bobs up and down so drastically. You *have* to knock out those weak points because leaving an Arachnotron with its gun up for too long is suicide. There's no reason to not lob an explosive into a Cacodemon's mouth because it's the fastest and most efficient way to kill them. Part of the fun of Doom 2016 was that you could just blow up demons the inefficient way if you wanted to, for fun. I don't feel like that's an option here - at least not in Nightmare. You fuck around, you die. It's intense, but also kind of confining.
The low ammo is really dictating how I play the game, too. Normally I like to spam like a motherfucker and would go for the high-drain weapon mods first, like the full auto shotty and the micro missiles, but I went straight for the other mods because I'm short enough on ammo as it is. I'd love to spray shotgun shells but I think it's just straight up less efficient right now. Maybe later when I have a bunch of ammo capacity upgrades?
That's my one gripe with this game so far, but I'm enjoying myself otherwise. I've already landed a couple of sweet shots that I'm pretty proud of.
Just finished the first level and wow, that was a lot more intense than I expected a first level to be. You're through a few tutorial hallways and then you're suddenly fighting for your life right away.
I'm liking the combat loop, but at the same time I feel like it's enforced pretty hard due to the hilariously low ammo capacity. I don't mind the high damage because it's Nightmare, but I was really expecting more ammo. What the hell, Doomguy? You roll into a hell-infested zone like a badass and you don't bother to pack more than 16 shells? How many demons were you planning to kill?
Basically, you *have* to use your chainsaw every x number of shots, or else you'll end up out of ammo and up against an Arachnotron (happened to me more than once already). You *have* to glory kill pretty often because your health bobs up and down so drastically. You *have* to knock out those weak points because leaving an Arachnotron with its gun up for too long is suicide. There's no reason to not lob an explosive into a Cacodemon's mouth because it's the fastest and most efficient way to kill them. Part of the fun of Doom 2016 was that you could just blow up demons the inefficient way if you wanted to, for fun. I don't feel like that's an option here - at least not in Nightmare. You fuck around, you die. It's intense, but also kind of confining.
The low ammo is really dictating how I play the game, too. Normally I like to spam like a motherfucker and would go for the high-drain weapon mods first, like the full auto shotty and the micro missiles, but I went straight for the other mods because I'm short enough on ammo as it is. I'd love to spray shotgun shells but I think it's just straight up less efficient right now. Maybe later when I have a bunch of ammo capacity upgrades?
That's my one gripe with this game so far, but I'm enjoying myself otherwise. I've already landed a couple of sweet shots that I'm pretty proud of.
I'm one of the few crazy ones who likes the platforming. It feels right at home for someone who loved Turok games on the N64.
I found a lot of experimentation in the combat puzzles. Especially with the Super Shotgun hook and sniper. I like to swing around a lot and use the extended air to get slow-mo headshots and grenade kills. It feels great.
Any battlemode impressions? I find it average at best, also it seems that xp is bugged? I'm still at 0/3 battlemode matches in my challenges.
Have not really formed an opinion on it yet, but have had some fun. I did receive the challenge completion for it, but it was quite a bit after I'd played, and I'm not completely sure every match counted.
seriously, why are people out of ammo? you have multiple weapons, there is enough ammo in every arena encounter, you have the chainsaw and you can upgrade ammo with the crystals...
this is made to keep you moving and changing weapons all the time, running around picking ammo up and using the chainsaw if you run low
this is made to keep you moving and changing weapons all the time, running around picking ammo up and using the chainsaw if you run low
Super shotgun is quicker, has a massive spread and won't damage you if you're too close to it.
That's because the platforming is good. In battle it flows properly with the arenas and your abilities. Outside of battle it's smooth and simple enough to not be annoying, while also detailed enough to make secret finding fun and light up some other parts of your brain to pace out the high intensity fights. Honestly can't comprehend why so many people are down on it. I guess if they're struggling with it I could understand, but some seem to hate it just on principle.
Dunno, I'm having the best time.
This game is pure adrenaline. I'm sure it's already been said but the sound design in this game is bonkers. Absolutely incredible sound effects, mixing and of course... the music <3
It's probably because they have a favorite gun they use all the time. Or they're very early. I'm super conservative with my chainsawing and I've rarely run out of ALL ammo on Nightmare. If things are getting tense, I just bring up the weapon wheel and I'm like "hmm what do I got to work with here?" and then roll with it. The game would be A LOT less interesting if I had tons of ammo all the time, it's all about the resource juggle, it's really where things shine.
So I might of ran into a bug where I did the slayer gate in the cultist base but it never gave me the key to completing it so I'm not sure what to do for it.
I finished the 1st level and now that I got a better feel for the gameplay it's more fun...the key is to use Glory Kills to re-gain health and use the Chainsaw to re-gain ammo...that way you always have good amounts of ammo and health at all times...it's a dance that you need to maintain throughout every fight alternating between the 2 based on which you need more...the Extra Life power-ups are also useful
I'm only 3-4 levels in and I've had some arena fights that are up there with the end of Doom 2016. This game is so intense.
Halfway through the game and I still hate the chainsaw mechanic they've built basically the entire game around. It wouldn't be an issue if you could chainsaw every demon depending on your fuel like in 2016, but stopping everything and looking for a weak zombie to use it is tedious, annoying and flow breaking. The imps, soldier guys and zombies are only in the game to be chainsawed, and trying to get the game to chainsaw them in a crowd is hard cause the game will whiff thinking you're going for the monster that's 1 size too big.
Story is still hella wack, this feels like Evangelion 3.33 where you had a timeskip and no one explained what happened inbetween, I have to look and read a few codex things to get an idea of what happened between 2016 and eternal. The beginning is still a total mystery to me, who was the soldier, the king, everything.
The game so far is exactly what Doom 2 was to Doom 1, throw as much as possible at the player nonstop. When I get the BFG I'm sure I'll be using it as much as I can just to survive.
Story is still hella wack, this feels like Evangelion 3.33 where you had a timeskip and no one explained what happened inbetween, I have to look and read a few codex things to get an idea of what happened between 2016 and eternal. The beginning is still a total mystery to me, who was the soldier, the king, everything.
The game so far is exactly what Doom 2 was to Doom 1, throw as much as possible at the player nonstop. When I get the BFG I'm sure I'll be using it as much as I can just to survive.
Gameplay loop is rad, but, i don't like how the weapons are literally just bouncing glory objects. Thought it was kinda cool how you found all the guns organically in the 2016 game.
Many people (myself included) probably played the first game barely ever using the chainsaw, and prefer the game to be more of a meat grinder power fantasy where avoidance is the only real reason to move. I don't agree, I think this game is fantastic and a massive step up from the first, but I see where the complaints are coming from. I can just hope that people can accept playing the game the way it's been designed to be played.
If you played Doom 2016, the chainsaw wasn't really necessary to keep on top of your ammo resources. The game was pretty generous with ammunition drops. Eternal is not; there's barely any meaningful ammo pickups and you'll get almost all of your ammo in a gunfight from using the chainsaw.
It's not quicker, it's one and done, and if you miss it has a long reload time. The sticky bombs have three (up to five with mastery) shots before a brief reload, and they can instantly destroy weak points like Mancubus flamethrowers and Revenant rocket launchers. They also don't deal self-damage and have a generous AOE to hit nearby enemies.
For the record, none of Doomguy's explosives do self-damage except for his rocket launcher.
The super shotgun has a place, sort of, but on Ultra-Violence and Nightmare it's far too risky to close that gap, fire off a shot, and retreat. Almost all enemies in the game have incredibly powerful melee attacks that can take you from full armor to almost nothing with one or two good hits. The regular shotgun is simply better for almost all scenarios where it's viable; its burst damage is incredible for its ammo economy.
Frankly, if you're gonna use the super, use its chain to slingshot yourself across the arena using an enemy as an anchor. You pick up speed incredibly easily and just need to time it right to send yourself flying.
Part of why I changed to Ultra-Violence from Nightmare. Enemies are wicked aggressive on Nightmare and can sandwich you with ease. Got tired of it real quick.
Best rune is definitely "farther glory kills". Makes SUCH a difference.
For suit upgrades is "reduce dash CD". Also night and day for general gameplay.
These are absolutely mandatory. Anything else is just bonus like Freeze Grenade - HP drop, faster ledge speed, faster weapon swap and auto-map-stuff.
For suit upgrades is "reduce dash CD". Also night and day for general gameplay.
These are absolutely mandatory. Anything else is just bonus like Freeze Grenade - HP drop, faster ledge speed, faster weapon swap and auto-map-stuff.
This is a basically a 900mph chess match that does not let up. Absolutely loved the 10 hours it took me to beat the Story (with some side exploration mixed in). It is gonna feel real weird to eventually go back to Doom 2016, there are just so many more options to combat now that 2016 seems so simple now.
I understand the idea that maybe how they push you to interact with certain enemies with specific abilities can seem limiting, but I think it's ultimately for the best. Unlike in 2016, it feels like I'm much more in control of the flow of the fight. Instead of just killing one specific enemy, I can disable the thing truly punishing me while working on the next problem mid-fight. But the consequences for the wrong action can REALLY screw you. Had a few moments where I was physically trapped between enemies and just lost several 1UPs. Those moments could feel a little cheap.
Honestly the thing that's probably A little worse in general than 2016 is the story. They don't have the simplicity of 2016's premise here, and don't have the characters like Hayden or Olivia to really interact/drive forward the narrative. The half way point of the game is where it gets better and there are a good amount of "story" moments that are as good as 2016 and better in different ways. The intro to this game does not compete with 2016's at all. And honestly the visuals in the first level of the game seem kind of worse than all the other levels to me? Oh well.
Have a ton more thoughts but I really loved the game and will be replaying it real soon. If it takes them another 4 years to make another sequel oh well, it'll be worth the wait!
I understand the idea that maybe how they push you to interact with certain enemies with specific abilities can seem limiting, but I think it's ultimately for the best. Unlike in 2016, it feels like I'm much more in control of the flow of the fight. Instead of just killing one specific enemy, I can disable the thing truly punishing me while working on the next problem mid-fight. But the consequences for the wrong action can REALLY screw you. Had a few moments where I was physically trapped between enemies and just lost several 1UPs. Those moments could feel a little cheap.
Honestly the thing that's probably A little worse in general than 2016 is the story. They don't have the simplicity of 2016's premise here, and don't have the characters like Hayden or Olivia to really interact/drive forward the narrative. The half way point of the game is where it gets better and there are a good amount of "story" moments that are as good as 2016 and better in different ways. The intro to this game does not compete with 2016's at all. And honestly the visuals in the first level of the game seem kind of worse than all the other levels to me? Oh well.
Have a ton more thoughts but I really loved the game and will be replaying it real soon. If it takes them another 4 years to make another sequel oh well, it'll be worth the wait!
I just finished the fourth level (playing on UV), and so far, I'm not enjoying it very much.
Pros:
+The secrets are well designed. So far they've all been tricky enough to find that they're fun without being frustrating.
+The dashes feel good and are a fun combat tool. Dodging around Hell Knight slams is great.
+I like being able to break monster parts
Cons:
-The guns mostly feel terrible. The shotgun and rifle both feel weak. The SSG demands you get way closer than feels reasonable to actually get anything out of it. Rocket launcher is better, but it feels too slow. The Plasma Rifle is the only weapon I've gotten so far that I'm ok with.
-Everything is on a fucking cooldown. Grenades, flamethrower, chainsaw, dashes, and then even your guns are on cooldowns since ammo is so scarce that you need to be chainsawing things all the time. It feels like your actions are dictated almost entirely by the cooldowns. No room for tactics, just use what's available in this particular second, because the next second it'll be gone and you'll be forced to use whatever's available next.
-The enemy composition seems bad. One of Doom 2016's biggest problems was how the arena fights blurred together, since they just threw a hodgepodge of whatever monsters you had encountered before at you. So far, it feels like that hasn't changed.
-There's an awful lot of platforming, and it's all been really easy and uninteresting. You have such strong mobility options that they pretty much have to force you to jump, double jump, dash, dash for every jump. It gets stale quick.
-I think the game looks terrible. The lighting feels really flat, enemies look too cartoonish for things to feel visceral, and the style makes it feel like a Darksiders knockoff.
-The story is atrocious. In media res opening, a gobbledygook plot, and nothing of interest to cling to.
-Bethesda account required lmao.
I'll keep on slogging through this, but honestly it's just making me want to get back to my Sunlust playthrough.
Pros:
+The secrets are well designed. So far they've all been tricky enough to find that they're fun without being frustrating.
+The dashes feel good and are a fun combat tool. Dodging around Hell Knight slams is great.
+I like being able to break monster parts
Cons:
-The guns mostly feel terrible. The shotgun and rifle both feel weak. The SSG demands you get way closer than feels reasonable to actually get anything out of it. Rocket launcher is better, but it feels too slow. The Plasma Rifle is the only weapon I've gotten so far that I'm ok with.
-Everything is on a fucking cooldown. Grenades, flamethrower, chainsaw, dashes, and then even your guns are on cooldowns since ammo is so scarce that you need to be chainsawing things all the time. It feels like your actions are dictated almost entirely by the cooldowns. No room for tactics, just use what's available in this particular second, because the next second it'll be gone and you'll be forced to use whatever's available next.
-The enemy composition seems bad. One of Doom 2016's biggest problems was how the arena fights blurred together, since they just threw a hodgepodge of whatever monsters you had encountered before at you. So far, it feels like that hasn't changed.
-There's an awful lot of platforming, and it's all been really easy and uninteresting. You have such strong mobility options that they pretty much have to force you to jump, double jump, dash, dash for every jump. It gets stale quick.
-I think the game looks terrible. The lighting feels really flat, enemies look too cartoonish for things to feel visceral, and the style makes it feel like a Darksiders knockoff.
-The story is atrocious. In media res opening, a gobbledygook plot, and nothing of interest to cling to.
-Bethesda account required lmao.
I'll keep on slogging through this, but honestly it's just making me want to get back to my Sunlust playthrough.
Taking a pause at Cultist Base.
And yeah, I'm... I'm about to be done for the night. This is just mentally exhausting to go through.
And yeah, I'm... I'm about to be done for the night. This is just mentally exhausting to go through.
the platforming is just not challenging or interesting in the slightest imo, because the levels are so linear. I don't feel like i'm exploring or doing anything particularly difficult, it just feels like padding to make the forward momentum seem more complex than it really is
The combat in this game is just too much for me. There's too much weapon switching, the chainsaw mechanic isn't fun, and even on normal I die in 5 seconds. The brain dudes with the turret are like anti-fun. I've always had trouble managing hotkeys for weapon switching and for some godforsaken reason there's like a second long delay on the weapon wheel pause instead of it being instantaneous.
It's just really unintuitive, nothing like the character action games I'm seeing comparisons too. I know they wanted to encourage experimentation and using all your tools but they went way too far.
At least Animal Crossing is good.
It's just really unintuitive, nothing like the character action games I'm seeing comparisons too. I know they wanted to encourage experimentation and using all your tools but they went way too far.
At least Animal Crossing is good.
The sounds are great. So much feedback for what you're doing.
That's pretty much it. I barely used the chainsaw in 2016 but I was happy it was there because it meant I could fire with abandon. I routinely emptied my assault rifle or rocket launcher in arena fights because I knew the option to chainsaw someone was always there, and I used it in those cases. Sure, I could swap weapons and not run my guns empty, but I could if I wanted to. And I did, because I liked spamming missiles.
In Eternal, the chainsaw feels more like a reload. I'm straight up running out of ammo in fights several times per arena, so I need to use the chainsaw to keep going. It's an integral part of your combat flow that's vital to your survival, rather than a fallback or a fun option.
It's clearly a very deliberate design decision, so I'm fine with it, but it does make the game feel more confining than 2016 so far. But it's probably also made the game much more interesting right out of the gate. I thought Doom 2016 was a bit dull for the first few levels.
I'm only just done the first level, so I'm sure it'll open up as I get more weapons to swap to, and more ammo capacity upgrades to work with.
This is probably a stupid question but I got the suit upgrade that shows all the collectible items on the dossier. How do I know what items I have found in a map now since they are no longer question marks on the items found screen?
Nevermind I figured it out, I had already found all the items in that level so I didnt know it was the green glow that lets you know you found it.
Nevermind I figured it out, I had already found all the items in that level so I didnt know it was the green glow that lets you know you found it.
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Arachnotrons were a pain for like the first hour but I've basically got the reflex down to just sticky grenade that cannon and move on. When you fight three of them in an arena about halfway through the game I didn't even take damage from them.
That's one of the biggest arguments in favor of Doom Eternal being a character action FPS. That, and your constantly-growing arsenal of "when the hell do I use this?" slowly turning into "I'm using all of this at once and feeling like a fucking god."
people were comparing this to character action games? That's... not one I'd make. All I can say is that you gotta make sure you're constantly moving at all times AND that the piercing bolt mod for the heavy cannon is vital and helps immensely with the arachnotrons (and a later enemy)
I've beaten it.
My brain is mashed potatoes but I've beaten it.
I feel like I need to go lie down.
My brain is mashed potatoes but I've beaten it.
I feel like I need to go lie down.