DOOM 2016's regular shotgun is disappointingly weak, and it seems like it's going to be the same in Doom Eternal.

[Blade Wolf]

Gauss, plasma aoe, shotgun grenade, RL airburst. Effortlessly rip through everything, is why I found the game so boring. Enemy count was way too low and the upgrades made you way too strong.

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Agree, it's the least replayable Doom for me (not counting Doom 3)

The shotgun is basically a grenade launcher, the plasma rifle deals less damage than machinegun so it's only good for the mod AOE, the gauss is basically a sniper BFG and the rocket launcher can blow shit up without even needing to aim.

Even on UV I find the game boring, I'm playing Doom II now (for the first time) and honestly it's way more fun & balanced. Feels great to blast demons into pieces using a gun instead of having to worry about glory kill.

 

[Emmz]

Terrible balancing, they might as well delete the shotgun after you get the Super Shotgun.

Outside of pistol there's no such thing as a starter weapon in Doom, all weapons are Doom guy's powerful tool against the hell horde.

The regular shotgun & super shotgun are perfectly balanced in Doom II, see my OP post for comparison. The super did not make the regular obsolete.

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The problem with this post is that it assumes that what Doom was and what you think Doom should be is what Doom is. And also that your is intrinsically right and that the present design is "bad".

Unfortunately for you, you're not the creative director of the game, and your edict about what Doom shall be is not the final word.

 

[Blade Wolf]

The problem with this post is that it assumes that what Doom was and what you think Doom should be is what Doom is. And also that your is intrinsically right and that the present design is "bad".

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I'm discussing the game and sharing my opinion, by your logic people can't even discuss game balancing cause it's ''too subjective''

Unfortunately for you, you're not the creative director of the game, and your edict about what Doom shall be is not the final word.

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The creative director actually agree with what I said that the super shotgun completely breaks the balance and the rocket launcher should be less like a rifle and more like the rocket : )

 

[Moist_Owlet]

It sounded weak. When I fire a shotgun I want to feel like a building exploded.

 

[FelixFFM]

Sounds to me like your problem isn't so much the shotgun itself but with glory kills being in the main gameplay loop.
I take it you haven't played Eternal?. It's a LOT more fast paced and hectic and MUCH harder than 2016. Glory kills are absolutely needed, not just for health, but to give you a breather to assess the situation and figure out what to do next.

 

[XL Hoodie]

The way you play the game kind of has an impact. It is what you make it. If you're only using one weapon and glory killing every other enemy of course it's going to get boring and repetitive.

Watch the vid I posted. That's some batshit insane gameplay.

 

[Blade Wolf]

It sounded weak. When I fire a shotgun I want to feel like a building exploded.

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Hell yeah Civvie knows what's up, he is probably my favorite retro shooter channel right now.
The clip you posted didn't show this part though

 

[Smash-It Stan]

Agree, it's the least replayable Doom for me (not counting Doom 3)

The shotgun is basically a grenade launcher, the plasma rifle deals less damage than machinegun so it's only good for the mod AOE, the gauss is basically a sniper BFG and the rocket launcher can blow shit up without even needing to aim.

Even on UV I find the game boring, I'm playing Doom II now (for the first time) and honestly it's way more fun & balanced. Feels great to blast demons into pieces using a gun instead of having to worry about glory kill.

The new id team just isn't as talented as the old one, no wonder they struggled for ages to came up with a decent Doom game, and they even brought the worst mechanic in the cancelled Doom 4 into the new one.

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I still find Doom 1 to the best because 2 was way too 'mean'. Picking up a random shotgun clip and you activate like 5 monster closets. It felt way more punishing than 1 and required much more planning and death-attempt-death-attempt knowledge. It's why pistol starts are so popular and hard to pull off, some levels you just couldn't do it.

Forgot about the BFG in 2016, also a Stark contrast to how it is in Doom 2 as you'll see where the BFG is a NECESSARY tool in Doom 2. Not the luxurious room wiper it is in 2016.

 

[Kent]

It was consistently useful throughout the campaign simply because it was functionally-different from the Super Shotgun. The ability to not egregiously-overkill something is pretty important to the intended gameplay loop - while at the same time, the mods (particularly the grenade mod) allows it the lethality necessary to deal with bigger, bulkier demons you find later on and in boss fights.

Not every weapon has to compete in the same niche, and that functionality difference is important.

 

[Blade Wolf]

I still find Doom 1 to the best because 2 was way too 'mean'. Picking up a random shotgun clip and you activate like 5 monster closets. It felt way more punishing than 1 and required much more planning and death-attempt-death-attempt knowledge. It's why pistol starts are so popular and hard to pull off, some levels you just couldn't do it.

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Doom 1 is definitely the best, I can tolerate mean levels (most of which are done by John Romero) but it's the Sandy Peterson levels that really frustrates me. Downtown is hot garbage.

Forgot about the BFG in 2016, also a Stark contrast to how it is in Doom 2 as you'll see where the BFG is a NECESSARY tool in Doom 2. Not the luxurious room wiper it is in 2016.

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I hear ya, the BFG in 2016 is basically a ''fuck this it's too hard imma nuke the map'' card

 

[Rodelero]

Just look at this, it's pathetic.

The zombie at 5:03 took two direct hits from the shotgun at close range and isn't even dead, only staggered for glory kill.

(Time stamped at 5:03)


Anyone who think they didn't balance the weapons around Glory Kill is delusional, and anyone who think the shotgun is ''perfectly fine'' is just wrong.

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Ten seconds later they one shot two different enemies with it...

 

[Blade Wolf]

Ten seconds later they one shot two different enemies with it...

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where? I didn't see any ''one shot two kills''

 

[thevid]

Agree, it's the least replayable Doom for me (not counting Doom 3)

The shotgun is basically a grenade launcher, the plasma rifle deals less damage than machinegun so it's only good for the mod AOE, the gauss is basically a sniper BFG and the rocket launcher can blow shit up without even needing to aim.

Even on UV I find the game boring, I'm playing Doom II now (for the first time) and honestly it's way more fun & balanced. Feels great to blast demons into pieces using a gun instead of having to worry about glory kill.

The new id team just isn't as talented as the old one, no wonder they struggled for ages to came up with a decent Doom game, and they even brought the worst mechanic in the cancelled Doom 4 into the new one. The glory animation executions.

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Is there a reason you aren't playing on Nightmare?

 

[Doomguy Fieri]

Yeah. Playing 2016 now, the problem was the super shotgun. Its effective against...literally everything.

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Same as it was in DOOM 2.

I'm fine with the shotgun being weak in DOOM 2016/Eternal, and I prefer it if the goal is to encourage glory kills which are a fundamental part of the DOOM 2016 gameplay loop.

 

[Blade Wolf]

Is there a reason you aren't playing on Nightmare?

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Not really, just feel like UV is perfect for me and any harder wouldn't be my cup of tea.
Mind you this is all just my assumption as I never tried Nightmare, I presume it's basically just demons dealing more damage to the player?

 

[ShinobiBk]

The explosive shot was incredible and put in heavy work for me.
I even used the tighter spread shot a lot.
I liked that gun op 🤷‍♂️

The pistol was what was trash and unsatisfying

 

[AllEchse]

You are just much more mobile in Doom 2016 because there's more verticality, so I feel like the difference in shotgunpower offests that.
I mean you can't even jump in classic Doom, the only way to go vertical is to get on a moving platform and then leaping off of there.

 

[IMCaprica]

Shotgun with the grenade mod was my primary weapon in 2016

 

[Stoze]

Just look at this, it's pathetic.

The zombie at 5:03 took two direct hits from the shotgun at close range and isn't even dead, only staggered for glory kill.

(Time stamped at 5:03)


Anyone who think they didn't balance the weapons around Glory Kill is delusional, and anyone who think the shotgun is ''perfectly fine'' is just wrong.

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It's your first and default weapon in this game, it's regular firing should be pretty weak. It's sticky grenade and rapid fire mods however are not.

 

[Pargon]

Here's how the shotgun should be in new Doom games, just my 2 cents:


Ironic cause this gun is done (consulted) by id software and they did a fantastic job here

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Does the shotgun in Rage 2 automatically ADS when you fire it? Because that looks dumb as hell.

 

[Tedmilk]

I have to agree with the OP - while there may be a case for the shotgun being weaker than in Doom 1 & 2, in practice it's nowhere near as fun to use as a result. At least there's now a gattling mod for it to give it more DPS.

 

[Donniewahlberg]

I really liked the shotgun but I also dont think it was OP in the old games so the poll option is a little loaded. It's just different. The super shotgun with the double shot before reload is savage so I dunno, no problems here

Does the shotgun in Rage 2 automatically ADS when you fire it? Because that looks dumb as hell.

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Nah ads activates the concussive blast, you can use it regular

 

[Blade Wolf]

Does the shotgun in Rage 2 automatically ADS when you fire it? Because that looks dumb as hell.

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Nah it's just the player trying to play like it's a COD game, not relevant

 

[scitek]

Feels great to blast demons into pieces using a gun instead of having to worry about glory kill.

The new id team just isn't as talented as the old one, no wonder they struggled for ages to came up with a decent Doom game, and they even brought the worst mechanic in the cancelled Doom 4 into the new one. The glory animation executions.

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You don't have to use the Glory kills.

And didn't the old team at id come up with Rage, and then fail to get Doom 4 out the door?

 

[HiLife]

I liked it more than the double barrel in 2016 lol. But then again I really don't share the same affinity to OG DOOM as others.

 

[Blade Wolf]

It's your first and default weapon in this game, it's regular firing should be pretty weak.

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As a classic Doom fan my response to that is FUCK NO

Anyone who suggests the shotgun is supposed to be weak in a Doom game gets a FUCK NO

You don't have to use the Glory kills.

And didn't the old team at id come up with Rage, and then fail to get Doom 4 out the door?

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By the time they work on Rage it is already the new id.

Also I know I don't have to use Glory Kills but the issue is that they are literally balancing the weapons around it. That's why the shotgun is so weak, it's to teach players about Glory Kills.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Does the shotgun in Rage 2 automatically ADS when you fire it? Because that looks dumb as hell.

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Having not played the game, it looks like it tightens the spread when you aim down the sights (the crosshair contracts at least). So presuming there's a movement penalty for using ADS all the time, the optimum strategy is to quick-scope each shot.

 

[Zeneric]

The shotgun is my favorite/most used weapon in DOOM 2016. And it's considered a weak weapon? How strange.
Helps a lot when it has a mod installed (especially explosive shot mod).

 

[Falchion]

Yeah I want the shotgun to feel powerful and make me want to stick with it. Maybe it'll have some better upgrades this time around at least.

 

[Blade Wolf]

The shotgun is my favorite/most used weapon in DOOM 2016. And it's considered a weak weapon? How strange.

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Let me guess, you use the grenade mod most of the time? What a wonderful shotgun.

 

[Zeneric]

"Let me guess, you use the grande mod most of the time? What a wonderful shotgun. "

Aye, most of time on Nightmare difficulty.
Shotgun is weak without mods. But with a mod installed, shotgun is super fun.

 

[Blade Wolf]

Shotgun is weak without mods.

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LMAO thank you for literally reinforcing my point.

Shotgun is weak in 2016, period.
The only thing that makes it usable is the grenade launcher that came with it. Might as well just delete the gun and give us a real grenade launcher instead.

Try using the shotgun like a shotgun, oh wait you can't cause it fucking sucks.

 

[Doomguy Fieri]

Absolutely in awe of this lad who played through DOOM 2016 11 times, hate glory kills, and is obsessed with an undertuned shotgun.

Id has been a junk factory for a decade. DOOM 2016 is one of the very best games ever made and the only worthwhile game from that studio since fucking Quake 3!

This thread is filling me with all sorts of feelings.

 

[Stoze]

As a classic Doom fan my response to that is FUCK NO

Anyone who suggests the shotgun is supposed to be weak in a Doom game gets a FUCK NO

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Honestly regular shotgun never felt that strong in OG Doom to me either, especially once when you get to compare it to the Super Shotgun in 2. And again, those games had the pistol as your default.

Thinking "this is how it was, so it should always be this way" is not a good way to design or critique video games.

 

[Blade Wolf]

Absolutely in awe of this lad who played through DOOM 2016 11 times, hate glory kills, and is obsessed with an undertuned shotgun.

Id has been a junk factory for a decade. DOOM 2016 is one of the very best games ever made and the only worthwhile game from that studio since fucking Quake 3!

This thread is filling me with all sorts of feelings.

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Nothing wrong with a guy who loves the Doom franchise and think the new 2016 one is just a few steps away from being 10/10

One of the steps is the garbage useless shotgun

Also Doom 2016 being the best id game since Quake 3 isn't saying a lot, ask any Doom fan and they will say they still prefer the old Doom games. Which is telling considering the new Doom is like ten thousand times more expansive.

It's not nostalgia either cause I didn't play the old Doom games until after 2016.

 

[PowerThroughLov]

Im currently replaying through Doom 2016 right now. I find the shotgun to be a solid weapon. Yes, the grenade launcher is a large reason, so if you are exclusively focused on its shutgun only prowess I can understand.

Also, I never use the super shotgun. I think it sucks *shrug*

 

[Spedfrom]

In 2016 the base shootgun was there for emergencies, not for fire power. Personally i was fine with it.

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This is all that needs to be said about this non-issue.

 

[Xtortion]

Also, I never use the super shotgun. I think it sucks *shrug*

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Do you have double tap for it?

 

[Stoze]

Also, I never use the super shotgun. I think it sucks *shrug*

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Now that's just crazy talk.

 

[Doomguy Fieri]

Nothing wrong with a guy who loves the Doom franchise and think the new 2016 one is just a few steps away from being 10/10

One of the steps is the garbage useless shotgun

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I 100% endorse getting weird over small things in videogames. The only thing you have said I think is objectively silly is that the new id team isn't as talented as the old one. DOOM 2016 is an all time banger. Might not be as important as DOOM, but timing plays a role there. Harder to invent genres today than it was 25 years ago.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Only weapons you needed in 2016 were the super, rocket, micro missiles and gauss.

 

[HK-47]

The explosive shot was incredible and put in heavy work for me.
I even used the tighter spread shot a lot.
I liked that gun op 🤷‍♂️

The pistol was what was trash and unsatisfying

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The pistol has always been trash though

 

[HiLife]

I think it was the first single player shooter to pull me away from my go to games at the time (OW, Siege). The movement and gunplay felt sublime. Glory kills are...okay, but once you've seen one you kinda seen them all. I guess I have mixed feelings about it coming back to 2020. I never disabled them but if you still get health even when it's turned off then I might need to do that. I don't like that little 2-3 second pause during frantic fights.

 

[thevid]

No, just feel like UV is perfect for me and any harder wouldn't be my cup of tea.
Mind you this is all just my assumption as I never tried Nightmare, I presume it's basically just demons dealing more damage to the player?

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Yes, enemies hit much harder. Supposedly they are more aggressive and resilient as well, but it wasn't immediately noticeable to me. Though I've only played through the game twice, once on UV, once on Nightmare. I was just curious because you said the game was boring.

Personally, I had no issues with the shotgun in Doom 2016. Yeah, it's main purpose is a grenade launcher with a cool down, but it didn't bother me that it wasn't a workhorse weapon.

The pistol has always been trash though

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The pistol is pretty satisfying to one tap weaker possessed with.

 

[dlauv]

I'd rank 2016 above DOOM 2 and Ultimate DOOM way above 2016 and all above DOOM 3 although I think your complaints are valid and it *seems* like they're going to be addressed in Eternal.

I don't like the ammo overlap either. It further neutered the plasma, assault rifle, and combat shotgun. I think the combat shotgun and plasma were fine weapons on their own (assault rifle is a little redundant imo) but the spread could be a little annoying on the shotgun. It shouldn't take two shots to stagger enemy soldiers at mid range half the time. The weapon mods gave it more utility as the game went on, but the super shotgun shits on every gun - especially with the double tap perk. As far as your DOOM 2 praise, the super shotgun similarly outmodes the regular shotgun although it isn't as OP as 2016's.

 

[Smash-It Stan]

Not really, just feel like UV is perfect for me and any harder wouldn't be my cup of tea.
Mind you this is all just my assumption as I never tried Nightmare, I presume it's basically just demons dealing more damage to the player?

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Nightmare is same as UV but one death resets the whole game. It's honestly just tedious, the start is the hardest with the dogshit inaccurate pistol and 20m wide shotgun spread. Most of my deaths came from barrels and pitfalls anyway. Think I got to UAC till a barrel got flung at me and I just shelved nightmare.

If they fix some of the things you and I have issues with in Eternal then I feel you and I will be Nightmare gamers.

 

[Blade Wolf]

Nightmare is same as UV but one death resets the whole game. It's honestly just tedious, the start is the hardest with the dogshit inaccurate pistol and 20m wide shotgun spread. Most of my deaths came from barrels and pitfalls anyway. Think I got to UAC till a barrel got flung at me and I just shelved nightmare.

If they fix some of the things you and I have issues with in Eternal then I feel you and I will be Nightmare gamers.

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I see, sounds like a literal Nightmare then.

Also hell yeah if the game is well balanced this time we will definitely play on Nightmare.

I think it was the first single player shooter to pull me away from my go to games at the time (OW, Siege). The movement and gunplay felt sublime. Glory kills are...okay, but once you've seen one you kinda seen them all. I guess I have mixed feelings about it coming back to 2020. I never disabled them but if you still get health even when it's turned off then I might need to do that. I don't like that little 2-3 second pause during frantic fights.

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Same, Glory Kill is very cool but it's also not fun. It's literally just first person cutscenes and the variety is and will always be limited.

I've said in previous post that I wish Glory Kill is only accessible when you hit a demon's weakpoint or something and has nothing to do with demon's HP at all.

This way they don't have to balance the gun around glory kills such as intentionally making the starting shotgun weaker. We get to blast demons as well as rip & tear.

 

[Rodya]

Nightmare is same as UV but one death resets the whole game. It's honestly just tedious, the start is the hardest with the dogshit inaccurate pistol and 20m wide shotgun spread. Most of my deaths came from barrels and pitfalls anyway. Think I got to UAC till a barrel got flung at me and I just shelved nightmare.

If they fix some of the things you and I have issues with in Eternal then I feel you and I will be Nightmare gamers.

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That's ultra-nightmare. Nightmare is like UV but more punishing. It's the best difficulty IMO.

 

[Dictator]

That's ultra-nightmare. Nightmare is like UV but more punishing. It's the best difficulty IMO.

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Nightmare is indeed really awesome. You cannot sit still there and your guns though are still very damaging. I like it.

 

[Blade Wolf]

Nightmare is indeed really awesome. You cannot sit still there and your guns though are still very damaging. I like it.

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For real tho, I know the gentlemen over at DF played Doom Eternal and they are big fans of the original.

How's the base shotgun this time? Do you wish they make it slightly more powerful?

In all the footage people literally only ever use the sticky grenade and never the shotgun itself unless they have to.