you dont remember miyamoto quoting FDR?
"the only thing we have to fear is a 7.5 or lower"
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Don't You Dare Critique Video Games! (Jim Sterling video regarding Troy Baker's dismissal of TLOU2 criticism)
- Thread starter Raijinto
- Start date
you dont remember miyamoto quoting FDR?
"the only thing we have to fear is a 7.5 or lower"
That's fair, I respect that. I just don't think that a voice actor from the game is the one to do that, though. It's incredible petty and tacky, especially for a game that was reviewed so well.
Actually, I think Miyamoto said "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is never fair, and perhaps it is a good thing for most of us that it is not".
Yeah. Y'know Ebert was a total hack!
It's tone policing at its most blatant.
Most video game criticism is garbage, but the idea that proper critics - i.e. educated, thoughful, and insightful - are somehow not necessary or that their input doesn't mean much is wild.
For example, I love Jane Eyre, but The Madwoman in the Attic is just as important as the work that it critiques because it dissects the issues of gender and race in the book that Bronte, whether knowingly or not, wrote into her own work. Good critics catch these things and discuss and analyze them properly. I feel like the Polygon review was a fair bit of criticism and generally thoughtful. These game devs just want unthinking worshipfulness sometimes, which is what happens I guess when reviewers are really an extension of the video game's advertising arm in so many cases.
Who I don't give a damn about is some VO defending his work on a game uncritically because he can't take critique.
And I certainly don't rate most of the unthinking criticism from the majority of the player base.
For example, I love Jane Eyre, but The Madwoman in the Attic is just as important as the work that it critiques because it dissects the issues of gender and race in the book that Bronte, whether knowingly or not, wrote into her own work. Good critics catch these things and discuss and analyze them properly. I feel like the Polygon review was a fair bit of criticism and generally thoughtful. These game devs just want unthinking worshipfulness sometimes, which is what happens I guess when reviewers are really an extension of the video game's advertising arm in so many cases.
Who I don't give a damn about is some VO defending his work on a game uncritically because he can't take critique.
And I certainly don't rate most of the unthinking criticism from the majority of the player base.
Ok and this has what to do with the conversation at hand given youre suggesting what Jason tweeted about wasnt wrong-unless you are saying that and in which case I would love to know your reasoning for it. Nothing about what youre talking about with Jason's tweets applies to the situation where people in the industry are being hilariously pathetic over an innocuous tweet asking someone to not compare a zombie game to the holocaust. Its weird seeing people bring that up here when its entirely beyond the topic here.
. I mean Jason isn't a friend to these people, he tweeted commentary on one hand and a disagreement to a pretentious fan comparing the game to Schindler's List. He didn't Tweeted at anyone at Sony or ND, they jumped on him and really amplified the situation. And apparently Neil was also really upset at people using that original comparins to compare a bunch of other games to other works of art as a joke to show how ridiculous the OG comparison was.
Talk about a self serious humorless bunch.
I kinda feel like the discourse in this thread has significantly expanded beyond this one isolated incident but sure, if you want to acknowledge just that one thing, then yes, Jason was right, Troy was embarrassing.
Satisfied?
Not surprising in the slightest when ND employees were tweeting salt gifs as the game was released. Shoot, all you have to do is go to the TLOU2 review thread here to see how folks are responding to negative reviews because now their darling product isn't going to be rated as highly 'as it should'. I hope reviewers continue to critique games based on their actual, valid criticisms and don't give in to pressure from both fans and those who worked on the game, etc.
The game still appears to be a fantastic game, and I'm excited to play it, but some of these guys need to take a step back. Instead of talking about one negative review out of 100 good ones, maybe we should have some of these higher ups in the industry actually talk about the crunch and sexual harassment/assault that they allow to persist.
The game still appears to be a fantastic game, and I'm excited to play it, but some of these guys need to take a step back. Instead of talking about one negative review out of 100 good ones, maybe we should have some of these higher ups in the industry actually talk about the crunch and sexual harassment/assault that they allow to persist.
But why did Neil need to step in to tell Jason what Jeff's intent was? Why couldn't jeff do that himself? How does Neil know what Jeff's intent was? It was embarrassing that Neil responded. It wasn't his place to respond
I mean ....the guy has 5 tweeter post about how the game was crafted and the first post is about talks about Game Narrative.
.
The Guy didn't said that TLOUS2 was The Holocaust of Video games....
The Guy said "TLOUS2 is The Shindler List of VideoGames"
And The Shindler list my friend is a movie crafted I'm the same way that you craft every movie and there is nothing wrong in comparing Pieces of Entertainment....
He is not making a comparison with the Holocaust ....He compared TLOUS2 with a MOVIE about the Holocaust.
Who in turn was quoting someone highlighting how video game review scores in general seem to garner a lot of attention relative to the reviews of other forms of media. The crazy part of this whole situation is that some Sony fans are literally rallying behind the creators themselves exhibiting the toxic fanboy behavior of actively disputing reviews from critics.
Because Neil can't accept near universal praise of his game. He wants universal praise.
I'm not sure I saw how the conversation evolved beyond the central issue being discussed here I guess.
You cannot separate the holocaust out of the comparison given that schindler's list is specifically about that historical event. It IS a direct comparison because that movie is considered to be as poignant as it is specifically due to the context of the event. WHat is with people trying to separate the two? Do you honestly think schindler's list would be that well regarded if it wasn't about one of the most violent events in recorded history? The answer is no, it wouldn't.
This isn't proving the point you think it does. But keep spending all these posts trying to stan for that tweet.
You're not wrong, I agree that all the insane critical and commercial success should be more than enough to speak for itself. Nothing need be said at all really.
There was nothing entertaining about Schindler's List. It was a film, yes, but Spielberg did not create that film as anything other than a black and white documentary. In fact he's on the record saying it was approached that way. There were no flourishes that resembled entertainment.
It was a movie, yes, but to infer that on the surface that The Last of Us 2 can possibly evoke the same sensations when compared against a visual reproduction of the horrors from one of the worst ethnic cleanses (if not THE worst) of the 20th century So not only misinformed and dishonest, but it's very sad too
Can you or anyone here answer me what is being reviewed and scored here?
The Holocaust or The Movie...?
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/schindlers_list
And please don't tell us that Rotten Tomatoes is putting scores and reviews over the worst Genocide in Human History.
Youre more than welcome to show what posts and parts of the conversation have included expanding the conversation beyond the points of the video if you feel ive missed something to Jason sometimes tweeting mean things. I'm not sure how thats germane to the video or topic in question tho.
A movie...specifically about the holocaust. Lol. You people are weird.
As much as I like Troy Baker, his take on this was really pretty pathetic. He comes across as some Naughty Dog marketer or something, and quite frankly his over the top defense isn't at all warranted because absolutely no one is criticizing the acting/voice acting in this game.
"what is being reviewed? the movie or the holocaust?" is an all time great post
the last of us has just produced so many funny takes that it's a shame most of them are just going to be forgotten
the last of us has just produced so many funny takes that it's a shame most of them are just going to be forgotten
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The fuck am I supposed to do with your "I'm not sure"?
Holler at me when you're sure, then. I honestly have no idea what your goal even is in this conversation. I told you that you're right about that isolated incident, you refuse to acknowledge the rest, how would you like to continue interacting?
I just asked you to point me towards the posts that moved the conversation into Jason tweeting mean things, outside the incident in question, and how it related to this discussion. I thought it was a simple request? Youre the one who made that argument afterall so I must have missed where this happened.
Exactly is that simple.....A Movie about The Holocaust like many others, are we going to jump on everyone talking about WWII Movies?
Jason was wrong there is no need to take sides....but what Jason did with that tweet was simple BAD.
Crackdown 3 is the citizen kane of video games. Its story, so rich with its allegories to the failings of capitalism, i shed a tear for every gang leader i was forced to brutalize, for they were only victims of their desire for a better life. Working for a tyrannical leader who is absolutley a stand in for the president, I took away the hopes and dreams of each gang member. Crackdown 3 is dead, its reflection of the horrors of capitalism was clearly a mirror that was too real for so called game journalists to stare into. long live crackdown 3.
....im joking of course, i honestly have nothing against the last of us 2, im really enjoying, but i think all of this drama surrounding reviews is really silly
....im joking of course, i honestly have nothing against the last of us 2, im really enjoying, but i think all of this drama surrounding reviews is really silly
Oh right I missed that, sorry. Yeah I guess you can say that, the gameplay part of tlou makes the story part stronger for me tho
I mean I wasn't sure we ever would top the anne frank-death stranding comparisons made on this site but here we are lol.
Strangely enough, I was really serious about this comparison, there's an arch in the show with a heavy emphasis in this revenge discourse and everything. Not trying to dismiss the TLOU2 story or anything, just pointing that out =b
In many ways this video makes a lot more sense in the context of Jim's previous video, and I have to say that I agree with the points that he's making here.
I just woke up and learned about the whole situation.
Embarrassing tweet from Troy.
Came off as a paid shill more than a vet VA
Embarrassing tweet from Troy.
Came off as a paid shill more than a vet VA
Oh my God Troy, those tweets. Can he even hear the opinion of others with his head so far up his own ass?
Jim is absolutely right as usual. The fact we STILL have publishers contacting professional reviewers because a score is "too low" is really sad. It's one thing if a reviewer has something factually wrong (like saying the game doesn't have an easy mode for new players, when it has an easy mode) but if a reviewer didn't like the game then they didn't like the game and their review should reflect that. This is just another reminder why review scores should be removed in favor of hate/meh/like/love style review or even reviews with just a pro/con list at the end.
I almost completely agree wth this post.
Jim is right as usual, Troy being deffensive about it and publicly tweeting to "defend" his art is moronic. It's a person's opinion, for better or worse. Art is there to be consumed, analyzed, critiqued, enjoyed or not.
I just think that there's no problem in assigning a review score the reflects your enjoyment of the piece.
So I'm an aspiring/freelance games journalist and this is one of those things that scares me. If/hopefully when I find success, I worry that disagreeing with public consensus will lead to damaging my wellbeing. It's not going to deter me or anything, but I've held a few "against-the-grain" opinions about some beloved that I feel would have led to a huge dogpile if I was a larger voice.
