That's not accurate, Cerny said they intended to have TV speakers ready for launch. They have headphones completely done now, and are working on stereo speakers. It's surround-sound speaker setups that will be year+ later.
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Dolby Atmos dev talk about Sony 3D audio "Tempest Engine"
- Thread starter GING-SAMA
- Start date
That's not what cerny said at all... And please it's best to avoid stating these timesframes are certain as fact. Headphone implementation is basically finished with 5 hrtf presets available at launch, TV they're basically working on widening the field where the 360 audio isn't so directional, they've already achieved the effect, this will be fixed with phase and won't take years. The 6 plus multichannel is what will take time. If you think Tempest is sonys only surround solution in games that I can guarantee is wrong at you'll have your standard multi channel surround support like on ps4. Tempest is a support chip not a replacement/requirement. Atmos is great solution I'm not taking that away from MS and their chip is decent too, but what Sony is doing is a slightly different.
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That's my mistake, I caught the Headphones are "largely complete" and TV/Stereo setups are "in process of implementing" and took that to mean they were going to be fine tuning headphones until launch and Stereo systems after. I missed the qualifier that they have a narrow sweetspot working.
The much more interesting tidbit I missed the first time is that he refers specifically to a 6 speaker system which is illustrated as a front LR, side LR, and surround back LR. This seems to suggest their plan is to more or less triplicate their Stereo solution into a front, side, and rear soundstage, which would conveniently fit within MPCMs capabilities. Doesn't bode well for the use of discrete height or center channels though. I have previously been questioning what transport they might use and whether it includes heights, but it seems those questions have been reasonably confirmed the whole time.
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7.1 doesn't include height information so that alone will be an upgrade over the PS4 if they have some way of outputting it to speakers (doesn't sound like they will license Atmos/DTS though).
The extra audio processing capabilities should result in much richer, more natural-sounding, and overall better sound environments, even if it's not being used for 3D Audio.
No complaints here if that's the case. My receiver does an excellent job of mixing for the height channels when I'm listening to non-Atmos content for movies, but if it improves, great, I'm just keeping my expectations in line. My One X supports Atmos, but frankly, it doesn't sound any different playing COD compared to my Pro.
So what, this new audio engine is just a marketing ploy by Sony?, it wont drastically change the gaming audio landscape???
Upmixing would almost assuredly break Sony's processed effects, see my second paragraph above for what it seems they're planning to do.
Maybe they just didn't want to pay the Dolby license. Can't imagine it costing too much. MS also has DTS X on Series X...
"With full support for Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Windows Sonic, Xbox Series X has custom audio hardware to offload audio processing from the CPU, dramatically improving the accessibility, quality and performance of these immersive experiences."
Interesting thing about DTS X is that it can have an Unlimited number of sound objects. Making it superior to both Atmos and Sony's Tempest 3D audio in that realm.
Cerny is right, Dolby Atmos is limited at 32 (Games). Problem is Cerny didn't say "for games".
It was a talk designed for GDC, sony license Dolby and DTS for general audio equipment, Tempest seems to be very game focused, I can't remember him talking about movies etc, but I haven't watched it again since, an hour of Cerny is more than enough for me.
He was talking about audio in games obviously but since journaslist make a living from out context statements it is only reasonable that Dolby clarified things afterwards.
Cerny is right, Dolby Atmos is limited at 32 (Games). Problem is Cerny didn't say "for games".
Is that Dolby or is that the API?
If this means I need to buy a new receiver just to be able to play a new format I'm gonna kill someone.
It's primarily for headphones and VR, I'll be amazed if it comes to speakers, there is a ridiculous amount of extra information that would need to be configured for it to work in the same way.
Shouldn't have to, they're making a "games" console. Just like MS has the same constraints. DTS:X is limited by 32 channel counts also, though I believe in larger setups like theatre it's 48, also known as beds, but it's works differently in that it adapts to ones own arrangement, you don't have to have the atmos like speaker arrangements. It'll move MDA(Multi-Dimensional Audio) objects to the most appropriate placement to a users home setup and can be downscaled to basic soundbars. DTS:X is more like a delivery format than the Atmos platform, that's why it's flexible. As for object count, yes potentially DTS:X is unlimited but this is rarely done as the processing and timescale required is unrealistic, so they'll adapt typical mixing methods used for standard surround, but obviously with more flexibility and choice.Cerny is right, Dolby Atmos is limited at 32 (Games). Problem is Cerny didn't say "for games".
Good! Not in the mood to spend another 400-500 for a new receiver. But how I wonder if PS5 won't feature Dolby atmos at all
Does this mean PS5 is unlikely to support home theater Dolby Atmos for games? i.e., a 5.1.2 setup as the XB1X currently does?
If not, is it likely Sony's audio implementation will take advantage of height speakers akin to Atmos/DTS:X?
If the PS5 has a UHD drive, it would be really surprising - perhaps without precedent - if it didn't have support for Atmos and DTS:X. Does that mean the licenses are different for movies and video games?
If not, is it likely Sony's audio implementation will take advantage of height speakers akin to Atmos/DTS:X?
If the PS5 has a UHD drive, it would be really surprising - perhaps without precedent - if it didn't have support for Atmos and DTS:X. Does that mean the licenses are different for movies and video games?
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It will be heavily used in VR and by first party studio maybe out of Vr because every headphone can use it. This is a better solution for headphone.
Everything Cerny does is a mistake, a ploy or a flat out lie. The conversation around the PS5 is pretty weird sometimes.
Audio And SSD are far superior on Sony side other stuff(CPU/GPU) are 15 to 25% superior on Xbox Series X. This is the reality.
People are misunderstanding one thing. The only thing that is hard to get right with multiple speakers systems is the HRTF emulation. But the chip that is able to process hundreds of objects is still there, and devs can give it a traditional output of 2, 2.1, 5.1 channels or whatever they want. So PS5 audio is going to be awesome with any sound system you have, AND there is also the option of using HRTF with headphones if you want. HRTF is a plus, not a requirement.
Cerny is right, Dolby Atmos is limited at 32 (Games). Problem is Cerny didn't say "for games".
1. We don't know if that holds true for XSX
2. Microsoft's approach is to pre-bake the complex environmental simulation, which reduces the costs of objects significantly. Their demo from 2019 talked about being able to process 50 objects in 1.56 ms, and that was not being done on specialized hardware.
3. For all we know, Atmos may only be used as the output format to your speakers, with the intent being an upgraded Windows Sonic or a new option for headphone users. Or maybe Atmos just handles the HRTF. Perhaps you could process audio for 500 objects and then mix that down to 32 Atmos objects if it's being used, without there being a meaningful difference in how it sounds.
Mark Cerny's idea of being able to simulate every drop of rain in a storm individually as they surround the player (hence Tempest Engine) is interesting, but is only one approach - and may not be the right one.
People don't realize how big a deal it is that Project Acoustics largely automates the process of environmental modeling/simulation rather than having to set it up by hand or using a relatively small number of rays to trace the path of audio.
I think people should be more excited about the renewed focus on audio tech from everyone this time around, rather than fighting over whose audio system is better without having ever heard either of them in a real game.
It may be able to playback a pre-recorded bitstream of Atmos content.
But the PC/Xbox solution encodes game audio to Atmos. Games like Resident Evil 2 on PC/Xbox support Atmos, while PS4 is stuck with 7.1 audio.
And they have a Dolby Atmos for Headphones 3D Audio option.
Yes, it doesn't contradict the weird way some people have talked about what Cerny is doing, like the ray tracing being fake, the sound a ploy and the SSD a pointless gimmick.
I don't think I have ever claimed anywhere that the Xbox is weaker.
Im not saying which one is better, only pointing the statement Mark Cerny did about the 32 as limit.
I just recently sold my 5.1 Dolby Atmos setup (Samsung soundbar + sub + rear speakers) because as a father of two little ones with a rather open structured flat I couldn't make any use of it anymore and this won't change for the forseeable future. So now I'm 100% on headphones while gaming and I love it. It's much more immersive since I can use it louder than the soundsystem. PSVR's 3D audio is stunning as are the few games which support 3D audio with Sony's Platinum Wireless Headset. I'm currently playing Uncharted 4 which supports it and it is awesome!
Long story short I couldn't be more excited about Tempest and Cerny targeting headphones first!
Long story short I couldn't be more excited about Tempest and Cerny targeting headphones first!
No, we don't know about audio. We do know XSX has a dedicated custom audio chip - that much is confirmed. But unlike Sony they haven't talked about it in any detail yet so we can't compare it to Tempest at this stage.
Right. That's what my questions were getting getting. I have an 5.1.2 Atmos setup + X1X/PS4 Pro. I presumed that with the new generation, Sony would have Atmos support as a logical upgrade for gaming. Especially so since I also presume its UHD movie playback would have said support.
Such presumptions are unwarranted, in your opinion?
I'm looking forward to the next gen consoles having Atmos support out of the gate for gameplay, rather than how it is now with XB1X, which has had Atmos tacked on at the end of its lifecycle, with understandably inconsistent support (though I'm loving it on Ori).
I'm not expecting the PS5 to have Atmos support in games.
Sony are like Nintendo in that regard; they want to license external tech as little as possible. The difference is that Sony tries to engineer their own equivalent and ends up creating competing and proprietary standards.
'Project Acoustic' Audio Ray Tracing For Xbox Series X Revealed
While Xbox Series X is dominating the next-gen console specs-wise. We haven't heard anything about its Audio technology, until now.
www.thegamepost.com
The CU/SPU hybrid is powerful enough to use the raytracing and calculate what is prebaked on Project Acoustics.
We know because from official specs what project accoustic is and what possibility offer Window Sonic and what is the audio DSP is doing. Go read Projet Accoustic and watch wave physics video. The audio solution if Xbox is prebaked offline 3Dsound and replay them using the audio ASICs and it ask more power than play a simple 2D sound but this is not like doing everything is realtime with more sources than Dolby game solution.
Another added benefit are HRTF use in PS5 with custom audio profile. And the fact it will work on all headphone. No need of Dolby certification and Windows Sonic headphone.
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Audio ray tracing isn't "pre-baked"?
So we have the official specs of the dedicated custom audio processor in XSX? I'm struggling to find them.
Dolby is an industry standard and has been for so long, I will personally trust more the company that has developed the industry standard. And Dolby Atmos works on all headphones
3D audio won't be a Dolby competing proprietary standard as it won't be used anywhere else but PS5, while Dolby Atmos is industry leading and will always be.
Non Audio raytracing on PS5 is not created in a prebaked process, the sound are creqted offline but not the 3d effect like on Project Accoutics. There is one benefit on Xbox side it means Audio does not need to take a little bit of raytracing power.
Here the ray are used and after the Tempest hardware does in realize the calculation depending of the material and the ray intersection of the sound with the scene.
Another better solution than the MS one is Steam Audi but this is logic because Valve and Sony needs great audio for VR.
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No Dolby Atmos headphone needed to be certified paying 15 dollars
Xbox One audio: Dolby Atmos for Headphones vs. Windows Sonic for Headphones
Should you choose "Dolby Atmos for Headphones" or "Windows Sonic for Headphones" for use with your Xbox One? Read this.
www.windowscentral.com
Windows Sonic is free. I was thinking you need to pay.
And same limitation for the two solution. There is less source soud the max is 128. And for example with 4CUs reserved of a RX489 on Steam Audio you can have 256 objects.
Sony and Valve solution are better than MS one. This is a fact you pay a little bit of raytracing power for audio. But MS need it less because they aren't invested inside aBR ecosystem.
That's not a certification though, you Pay 15$ and can then use it on Xbox and PC, so it has lots of uses, especially when watching Dolby Atmos movies with headphones which PS5 I guess won't do since it doesn't support Atmos at that level.No Dolby Atmos headphone needed to be certified paying 15 dollars
Xbox One audio: Dolby Atmos for Headphones vs. Windows Sonic for Headphones
Should you choose "Dolby Atmos for Headphones" or "Windows Sonic for Headphones" for use with your Xbox One? Read this.
Windows Sonic is free. I was thinking you need to pay.
And same limitation for the two solution. There is less source soud the max is 128. And for example with 4CUs on Steam Audio you can have 256 object.
Even Overwatch has baked in support and doesn't require people to pay for it.
On Sony you can use any headphone. The Sony is simple, no need for a certified Dolby headphone. Plain and simple...
And the audio system is better... After Xbox is more powerful but each platform holder does some choice, Sony choose SSD and Audio less than pure power and MS choose to have more TFlops and a more powerful CPU.
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Again, you don't need Dolby Certified headphones, any headphones you have works, what you are saying is plain wrong. All you need is to pay the 15$ licence which is then good for life and for Xbox and PC.
Did you even read the text that you quoted? It details how Project Acoustics' wave-based simulation is more advanced than ray-traced audio.
Sonic/Atmos/DTS work with any headphones. That's three different HRTF models to choose from right there.
DTS:X also includes profiles for 500 models of headphone so far, to refine how it sounds over the generic profile.
Sound are wave after hitting a surface Tempest calculate the wave effect this is what he explains when he talked about convolution reverb or other audio effect. If you believe they don't know sound is wave.
One does it in prebaked effect other solution calculate it in realtime.
Reverb effect - Wikipedia
Fourier transform - Wikipedia
And the solution is probably more easy to use for sound designer than prebaked sound.
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'Project Acoustic' Audio Ray Tracing For Xbox Series X Revealed
While Xbox Series X is dominating the next-gen console specs-wise. We haven't heard anything about its Audio technology, until now.
The CU/SPU hybrid is powerful enough to use the raytracing and calculate what is prebaked on Project Acoustics.
We know because from official specs what project accoustic is and what possibility offer Window Sonic and what is the audio DSP is doing. Go read Projet Accoustic and watch wave physics video. The audio solution if Xbox is prebaked offline 3Dsound and replay them using the audio ASICs and it ask more power than play a simple 2D sound but this is not like doing everything is realtime with more sources than Dolby game solution.
Another added benefit are HRTF use in PS5 with custom audio profile. And the fact it will work on all headphone. No need of Dolby certification and Windows Sonic headphone.
So, this answers a key question I had pertaining to the compatibility of the technology with existing headsets. Presumably, PS Gold und Platinum headsets ought to work with this.
Your second sentence raises a question:
I bought the license to use to Dolby Atmos (DA) to use on One X and was under the impression that using any headphones (I am using a wired Audio-Techica ATH M50x) via the controller's 3.5mm audio out jack would meet the condition to enjoy DA's performance and quality perks for games & streaming content that support it.
Was I wrong all this time and that I actually need Dolby compatible headset?
And MS use raytracing for the sound but do it offline for find where th there after the sound is a wave in the two cases one is precalulated and use by the DSP and other is calculated.in realtime.
makelifeclick.com
Dolby have a list of headphones where it works better.
And at the end you have less objects than Sony and Steam Audio solution. This is the reality.
9 Best Dolby Atmos Headphones to Buy in 2024
Are Dobly Atmos headphones even a thing? We'll explain if you can use Dolby Atmos with headphones and recommend the best headphones for Dolby Atmos audio.
makelifeclick.com
Dolby have a list of headphones where it works better.
And at the end you have less objects than Sony and Steam Audio solution. This is the reality.
And MS use raytracing for the sound but do it offline for find where th there after the sound is a wave in the two cases one is precalulated and use by the DSP and other is calculated.in realtime.
9 Best Dolby Atmos Headphones to Buy in 2024
Are Dobly Atmos headphones even a thing? We'll explain if you can use Dolby Atmos with headphones and recommend the best headphones for Dolby Atmos audio.
Dolby have a list of headphones where it works better.
And at the end you have less objects than Sony and Steam Audio solution.
Wow... FML.
Thank you.
No, you don't need a specific headset. chris 1515 is just spreading more misinformation.
They're more interested in platform-warring than facts.
Some work better say dolby atmos.
like the Razer Tiamat Dolby Atmos Speakers 7.1 v2
And not the case on Sony side and more objects same for Steam Audio. There is a limit in number of in Dolby for games.
PS5 and Steam Audio solution is better for games.
Ah, that makes much more sense. You gave me a good fright there mate.
I have known Chris for a while now. If he is in error then it's very unlikely that it's intentional.
makelifeclick.com's recommendations are not Dolby's.
Multi-driver headphones have always been terrible. Dolby's own headphones use a single 40mm driver - and those are not required for the best Atmos experience either.
Sure, just keep ignoring everything else except object count when we don't even have details of the XSX's audio processing capabilities.
We need to know how much prebaked 3d sound he can replay. Forget this details we will see later. But at least we have dozen of third part audio engineer praising the PS5 solution on twitter. ;)