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DanSensei

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,213
I do think the change is odd when... The Last of Us 2 happened, lol.
But Naughty Dog has the money and resources to get their way. Remember in the ps1 days when Sony didn't want 2d games on their system, but Mega Man 8 and X4 got through because Capcom threatened to pull Resident Evil 2? I imagine this situation is similar to that.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,328
The strange thing is that simply no one asked for this. Why can't Sony just leave this to the ESRB etc.? This just confuses devs and makes them wary about what content they can put on the playstation. Doesn't help that Sony seems to be extremely bad at communicating with indie devs
 

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
But Naughty Dog has the money and resources to get their way. Remember in the ps1 days when Sony didn't want 2d games on their system, but Mega Man 8 and X4 got through because Capcom threatened to pull Resident Evil 2? I imagine this situation is similar to that.
Plus it's a first party game that gets them many rewards at rewards shows of course they aren't going to compromise that "vision"
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
Almost every time I have seen this happen it is related to anime styled games with borderline underage content. Most of the stuff I actually agree should be censored as pedo pandering is a huge problem in the genre.
 

Doub

Member
Nov 11, 2020
579
Sony is really the worst recently with censorship, especially when it's to censor blood when some of their games are violent as fuck (Gow, TLOU2...)
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,926
Almost every time I have seen this happen it is related to anime styled games with borderline underage content. Most of the stuff I actually agree should be censored as pedo pandering is a huge problem in the genre.
Sony actually puts out that stuff themselves on mobile. And I'm not talking about SME/Aniplex, I'm talking about SIE/Forwardworks.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
The game boots up with a trigger warning, for what it's worth, though it's a bit vague
The Plus version also includes a new feature where you can turn on an optional content warning it gives specific content warnings ahead of the scenes in question and gives the player an option to skip the scene if they'd rather not see it.
 

Niks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,299
These edits only happen to Japanese-developed or Japanese-styled games. I know firsthand developers and publishers of those types of games that have been downright harassed by Sony. It's targeted.



This is all on Sony US. Even games in Japan are submitted to SIE in English - I did a thread about it on Twitter in 2018. One of the companies in question, Light, went bankrupt when Sony refused to let them release their all-ages VN on the platform, and thanks to the exclusivity agreement that they had with Sony, they were unable to release it on PC either.

There's much more to it than this, but much of it is private information that is not my place to share.

I know ERA kind looks down on anime games but...
Isnt this new thread worthy?

On topic, yeah, really bizarre decision by sony.
 
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Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,796
I know ERA kind looks down on anime games but...
Isnt this new thread worthy?

On topic, yeah, really bizarre decision by sony.
The fact that Sony has been specifically targeting Japanese games has been known for quite a while, most people on here sadly don't care though because it has up until now largely only affected niche Vita/PS4 games they don't care about.
 

Kahhhhyle

Member
Jun 8, 2021
2,174
Almost every time I have seen this happen it is related to anime styled games with borderline underage content. Most of the stuff I actually agree should be censored as pedo pandering is a huge problem in the genre.
Honestly I'm fine with that sort of thing too.

That's not what's happening here though... Unless they're thinking about some real dark fetishes...
 
Dec 5, 2017
1,435
Sony definitely seems inconsistent but at the same time, it's a depiction of on-screen suicide of a high schooler* in a game that deliberately hides the sort of content that it presents. I don't think something like TLOU is a good comparison here or that there really is any other game that is.

*Also to the defense that these characters are 18... that seems to have been confirmed by the creator looooooong after the game got popular in a Discord. There's nothing confirming that they are all adults in the game itself. It's only known they're in high school so yeah, it's pretty easy to assume they're not adults and that is, imo, the intention of the game. The discord comment feels like a CYA.
You can be an adult in high school. I was 18 for my entire senior year.
 

VermillionA

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 29, 2019
474
This is the first example of Sony's censoring where I don't agree with it. Normally it's just a bunch of angry weebs crying that their tiddies (of characters of questionable ages at that) have been censored and besides nonces who cares about that.
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,619
People brushed off these types of censorship as "anime tiddies lol" for years and now we are here.

Fuck Sony for pulling this shit. They censor this type of stuff for anime games, yet it's okay for TLOU2 and other western games to have as much gore and violence as they want. Fuck their double standards.
 

VermillionA

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 29, 2019
474
It's racist. It's ok to call it what it is - racism.
Provide examples of alterations Sony forced some of these companies to make that you think are unfair. You're ignoring the very large elephant in the room that a lot of Japanese games have questionable content, especially relating to underage characters, if that's what's being targeted (and to my knowledge it is) I'm bemused that it would be labelled racist.
 

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
I know ERA kind looks down on anime games but...
Isnt this new thread worthy?

On topic, yeah, really bizarre decision by sony.
because nobody was willing to make it because until some more recent examples it was about pandering and sexualization, it wasn't till the gore blood and stuff started getting censored that it actually started to get actually talked about, because it is now extending passed that and that is really ironic
 

Theswweet

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,418
California
Provide examples of alterations Sony forced some of these companies to make that you think are unfair. You're ignoring the very large elephant in the room that a lot of Japanese games have questionable content, especially relating to underage characters, if that's what's being targeted (and to my knowledge it is) I'm bemused that it would be labelled racist.

As I have said in the thread, the reason that I've said that the alteration is racist is due to specific examples I've been made privy to that I am not at liberty to share. If you want to discard what I'm saying because of that, fine - but I assure you I don't make claims of racism in vain.
 

bushmonkey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,604
It's not really a problem. I played it on PS5 for the first time and didn't notice. What's really puzzling is that they kept the blood everywhere else in the game so censoring just that one scene just doesn't make sense. She's in a pool of blood in the next scene and you're stuck looking at it for ages which is far more disturbing. Anyway, it doesn't affect how effective the scene is so *shrug* whatever, just a weird decision by Sony.
 

bushmonkey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,604
this actually sounds kinda lame. it's been a while since I played it, but I felt like the biggest surprise of the original was the moment it clicked that I could do stuff in the OS. if it was a virtual one then I would've seen it a mile off
It's really well done. You access the extra story content, the pictures you unlock and the music through that virtual OS. It feels like it's implemented in this way to give you these items in a fun way, nothing more. You can navigate game files but it just feels like an 'aesthetic' choice rather than a vital part of the game playing experience.
'I hadn't played the original, I'd heard it was good and went places but I didn't know anything about "that" part of the game and I didn't see it coming.
 
Dec 21, 2020
5,066
Provide examples of alterations Sony forced some of these companies to make that you think are unfair. You're ignoring the very large elephant in the room that a lot of Japanese games have questionable content, especially relating to underage characters, if that's what's being targeted (and to my knowledge it is) I'm bemused that it would be labelled racist.
They clarified it:
I wouldn't use the word "trolling" - I have it on good knowledge that Sony has been downright retaliatory to companies that have piped up about their new policies, to an abusive extent. Again, I wish I could give a more specific example - but I don't want to paint a target on any of these company's backs when they've already been subject to abuse.

The crux of the problem is that these policies have only been enforced on Japanese or Japanese-aesthetic games. That's targeted, and unless Sony can give an adequate explanation why it's not hard to come to the conclusion it comes down to the country of origin. The reason I'm coy about this is I know why the company enacted these policies to begin with, and make no mistake - from conception they were meant to target Japanese devs.
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,619
I don't know why some people act like Sony having double standards is not a thing when CC2's CEO came out and said that Sony didn't let them have Minato without one of his arms in Naruto Ninja Storm 4 (even tho CERO was cool with that), yet we have western games like AC Valhalla and Witcher 3 where you can cut people in half or chop their heads off to your heart's content.

Sony has been censoring Japanese games for years and contrary to what Era likes to tell itself, it's not all about oversexualized anime girls.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,316
I don't know why some people act like Sony having double standards is not a thing when CC2's CEO came out and said that Sony didn't let them have Minato without one of his arms in Naruto Ninja Storm 4 (even tho CERO was cool with that), yet we have western games like AC Valhalla and Witcher 3 where you can cut people in half or chop their heads off to your heart's content.

Sony has been censoring Japanese games for years and contrary to what Era likes to tell itself, it's not all about oversexualized anime girls.



Doesn't surprise me. Sony loves to force down shit policies to smaller devs. And considering their shift from Japan (yes, it happened as opposed to what some fans keep claiming on Era) it's not surprising either.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,316
And that story about that dev not allowed by Sony to release all-age titles on their platform, but not allowed to release those elsewhere because of Sony's exclusivity deal is incredible. That's just some high level of shittyness.
 

1upsuper

Member
Jan 30, 2018
5,489
I don't know why some people act like Sony having double standards is not a thing when CC2's CEO came out and said that Sony didn't let them have Minato without one of his arms in Naruto Ninja Storm 4 (even tho CERO was cool with that), yet we have western games like AC Valhalla and Witcher 3 where you can cut people in half or chop their heads off to your heart's content.

Sony has been censoring Japanese games for years and contrary to what Era likes to tell itself, it's not all about oversexualized anime girls.
For clarification as someone not terribly familiar with Naruto, was Minato's arm being cut off visible in the game, or did Sony have an issue with the depiction of someone with a missing limb?
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,619
For clarification as someone not terribly familiar with Naruto, was Minato's arm being cut off visible in the game, or did Sony have an issue with the depiction of someone with a missing limb?
It's been years since Naruto ended so I'm not sure when Manato's arm was cut-off in the story, but judging from the translation, it seems like they had a problem with him visibly missing an arm and not just the act of it being cut off. They added another character in the game who doesn't have an arm with the DLCs and they've tried their best to cover that missing arm most of the times during normal gameplay and special moves, probably to avoid having a similar problem with Sony.
 

1upsuper

Member
Jan 30, 2018
5,489
It's been years since Naruto ended so I'm not sure when Manato's arm was cut-off in the story, but judging from the translation, it seems like they had a problem with him visibly missing an arm and not just the act of it being cut off. They added another character in the game who doesn't have an arm with the DLCs and they've tried their best to cover that missing arm most of the times during normal gameplay and special moves, probably to avoid having a similar problem with Sony.
Oh. That just...seems like ableism then. I looked up the character to see if he walks around with a gruesome wound visible, but it doesn't look like it. I'd like to think that game companies like Sony wouldn't view people with missing limbs as abominations that can't be put on screen.
 
Dec 21, 2020
5,066
For clarification as someone not terribly familiar with Naruto, was Minato's arm being cut off visible in the game, or did Sony have an issue with the depiction of someone with a missing limb?
Minato was a "zombie", by the way. A doll really, a sentient doll. There was absolutely no blood. In the show. There wasn't supposed to be blood.

If they were destroyed then you saw paper-like material flying to where it was destroyed to remake it.

The game.... had an odd reason for that type of censorship.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
For clarification as someone not terribly familiar with Naruto, was Minato's arm being cut off visible in the game, or did Sony have an issue with the depiction of someone with a missing limb?
Ninja Storm 4 used the end of Shippuden as it's story mode. In the anime/manga, Minato (Naruto's dad) was brought back to life as a zombie, and one of the perks of being a zombie was that it made you totally immortal. If any part of your body was destroyed (like if, your head was blown clean off), it would bloodlessly disintegrate into ashes, and then the ashes would float back and perfectly re-form into the destroyed body part.

In the fight with the villain, Minato got his arm blown off, but due to the nature of the attack, Minato's arm was prevented from regenerating, so Minato continued the fight for a while, minus one arm.


u6kataG.gif
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,619
It's not like Sony is opposed to having scenes where someone cuts someone else's arm, as long as it happens in game with more realistic/western looking art style.


Nero can even walk around and fight in the game without his arm if you run out of Devil Breakers. So I think the problem with Naruto was its anime/more Japanese art style which goes to show how Sony has double standards for these things.

Now I wonder if Berserk Musou not having human decapitation was also something that Sony forced on KT or if CERO was the culprit there.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
It's not like Sony is opposed to having scenes where someone cuts someone else's arm, as long as it happens in game with more realistic/western looking art style.


Nero can even walk around and fight in the game without his arm if you run out of Devil Breakers. So I think the problem with Naruto was its anime/more Japanese art style which goes to show how Sony has double standards for these things.

Now I wonder if Berserk Musou not having human decapitation was also something that Sony forced on KT or if CERO was the culprit there.


I think that's probably CERO related. It's rated CERO D, the highest rating is CERO Z but there are heavy restrictions placed on selling CERO Z games. So they presumably aimed for CERO D intentionally to try to sell more.
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,619
I think that's probably CERO related. It's rated CERO D, the highest rating is CERO Z but there are heavy restrictions placed on selling CERO Z games. So they presumably aimed for CERO D intentionally to try to sell more.
I see. Yea it seems like they wanted to sell to a wider audience. I wish they went the Capcom route and had a CERO Z version as well, but we are going off topic now.
 

VermillionA

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 29, 2019
474
As I have said in the thread, the reason that I've said that the alteration is racist is due to specific examples I've been made privy to that I am not at liberty to share. If you want to discard what I'm saying because of that, fine - but I assure you I don't make claims of racism in vain.
Nothing they've said backs up their point of racism. "The crux of the problem is that these policies have only been enforced on Japanese or Japanese-aesthetic games. That's targeted, and unless Sony can give an adequate explanation why it's not hard to come to the conclusion it comes down to the country of origin." Like no shit Japanese games are being affected more than western ones because there's more problematic content in them when it comes to underage characters? Do EA games have half naked thousand year old lolis? Are Rocksteady going to release a Senran Kagura or a Criminal Girls? C'mon.
 

lexony

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,518
As I have said in the thread, the reason that I've said that the alteration is racist is due to specific examples I've been made privy to that I am not at liberty to share. If you want to discard what I'm saying because of that, fine - but I assure you I don't make claims of racism in vain.
Of course I don't know the full story, but this sounds rather xenophobic or ignorant to a certain non-western culture because it seems strange, than exclusively racist to me. Racism defines the ideology that culture or behavior has somehow to do something with physical appearances.
 
Dec 21, 2020
5,066
Nothing they've said backs up their point of racism. "The crux of the problem is that these policies have only been enforced on Japanese or Japanese-aesthetic games. That's targeted, and unless Sony can give an adequate explanation why it's not hard to come to the conclusion it comes down to the country of origin." Like no shit Japanese games are being affected more than western ones because there's more problematic content in them when it comes to underage characters? Do EA games have half naked thousand year old lolis? Are Rocksteady going to release a Senran Kagura or a Criminal Girls? C'mon.
I did not know this game had underage characters shown in that way, as I do not play this type of game. The impression I've seen in the thread point that the game has mature themes such as self-harm, isn't even targeted at children but to adults, and got censored in the most obscure way (changing the color of the blood), but a game like TLOU2 which was even more gory and gruesome than a cartoon gets a much better pass.

There's a double-standard there. Now, I do know not all Japanese games are the way you describe it, not every game is sexualized despite the stereotype here that all "japan=sexualization" for every single thing, there has been censorship of things that aren't even sexual, and it has been at games of this particular art-style. IF there is sexualization in this game, why wasn't that censored, but this was? You mentioned "underage characters", "half naked" and atrocities like "Senran Kagura", so if it were only to those kind of games I can see it as those are the issue, but this is a different type of censorship, who was already half-assed as is, apparently there is a noose scene. So, if a game isn't sexualized, then the censorship shouldn't really affect them, right? Well, no, clearly. SIE clearly has a line they draw on what to allow with sexual content.

Either give the same treatment on all games across all publishers regardless of region with respect to this censorship, or don't do it at all with respect to bloody/gory situations on games that aren't targeted to children already.

Why is it that this is mostly prevalent in these type of games? There is a reason they felt it was racism/xenophobic, on top of what they have been told by people that work for companies that have had this censorship occur for their games. I don't really think it is unfounded.


I don't think it is inherently simply racism at play, but power abuse is also at play.
 

OtakuCoder

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,379
UK
Sorry to veer off topic, but the whole thing about Sony not liking characters depicted with missing limbs strikes me as unintentionally ableist AF.

Like, yeah, I get being queasy about scenes with limbs getting hacked off, but all the examples that get brought up (Gohan, Minato, Tenshinhan) go on to fight without their missing arms. People with missing and lesser-functioning limbs exist, and if you say that character has to keep his arm then that's erasure.
 

Theswweet

RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,418
California
Nothing they've said backs up their point of racism. "The crux of the problem is that these policies have only been enforced on Japanese or Japanese-aesthetic games. That's targeted, and unless Sony can give an adequate explanation why it's not hard to come to the conclusion it comes down to the country of origin." Like no shit Japanese games are being affected more than western ones because there's more problematic content in them when it comes to underage characters? Do EA games have half naked thousand year old lolis? Are Rocksteady going to release a Senran Kagura or a Criminal Girls? C'mon.

To be *abundantly* clear, here - my argument has absolutely nothing to do with games such as those. We have examples in this very thread pointing to it, otherwise - the VN from Light, the issue with Ninja Storm 4 from CyberConnect2, both come to mind. The other instances that don't deal with sexually explicit children do not come to the forefront because, as I have explained, Sony has threatened - and even acted upon - parties that openly talked about or litigated these policies in the past.

The reason this thread was made was that Sony extended the same treatment that it has enacted to Japanese Independent developers to a very obviously Japanese-inspired Visual Novel from a western developer. The reason *I* decided to speak up was to say that this is a symptom of a larger problem, which we can clearly showcase without going for the low-hanging fruit of games that are barred for discussion on this very forum.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,241
You can be an adult in high school. I was 18 for my entire senior year.
I'm aware but this is useless pedantry. It remains that high school is associated with being a child and not an adult and why it is the chosen venue for the game. It is a transparent CYA. Once again, I'm not saying DDLC is doing anything gross* but that scenes of self-harm amongst people we generally consider underage is not common in games and so that's why I think comparisons of "this okay but not this" misses the mark because there's little point of comparison.

*Tho when it was confirmed in the discord the screenshot has most people being like "wahoo we can lewd them now. So."
 
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Shining Star

Banned
May 14, 2019
4,458
Nothing they've said backs up their point of racism. "The crux of the problem is that these policies have only been enforced on Japanese or Japanese-aesthetic games. That's targeted, and unless Sony can give an adequate explanation why it's not hard to come to the conclusion it comes down to the country of origin." Like no shit Japanese games are being affected more than western ones because there's more problematic content in them when it comes to underage characters? Do EA games have half naked thousand year old lolis? Are Rocksteady going to release a Senran Kagura or a Criminal Girls? C'mon.

Sadly, they will keep getting away with it with posts like this. People's own hated of certain Japanese things will provide a great smokescreen for them here.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,316
User Banned (2 Weeks): Hostility; History of the Same
To be *abundantly* clear, here - my argument has absolutely nothing to do with games such as those. We have examples in this very thread pointing to it, otherwise - the VN from Light, the issue with Ninja Storm 4 from CyberConnect2, both come to mind. The other instances that don't deal with sexually explicit children do not come to the forefront because, as I have explained, Sony has threatened - and even acted upon - parties that openly talked about or litigated these policies in the past.

The reason this thread was made was that Sony extended the same treatment that it has enacted to Japanese Independent developers to a very obviously Japanese-inspired Visual Novel from a western developer. The reason *I* decided to speak up was to say that this is a symptom of a larger problem, which we can clearly showcase without going for the low-hanging fruit of games that are barred for discussion on this very forum.



You're wasting your time with corporate apologists and bootlickers. There's a defense force for everything.
People have said about violence being targeted too in specific titles, yet you have people saying "b-but it's because western games don't have problematic content" which isn't even the point.
 

Axisofweevils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,842
The issue here is that no other platform holder required the dev to do the extra work of removing the blood from an M rated psychological horror game - the ESRB passed it and Nintendo, Xbox and PC were all fine with it. It just adds to the many issues of Sony making life difficult for smaller devs for no reason.
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,196
I've read through this whole thread and the one thing I can conclude is there is some very, very weird shit going on at Sony these days.

Is the one similarity behind all the games Sony has censored that they are 'anime' styled. Not necessarily that they are from Japan?
Does anyone have any examples of games affected that do not have a specificaly anime artstyle?

I don't think we have enough evidence to claim racism, but Theswweet's accusations of targeted harrassment are concerning.
We need more developers to speak up. Even anonymously.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,796
Theres a crazy amount of 2D games on PS1. I have no idea what that dude is talking about.
In the early days of the PS1 SCEA (the American branch specifically, the European and Japanese divisions had no problems with 2D) did not want 2D games on the platform because they viewed PlayStation as a 3D-focused console and wanted to demonstrate its strengths in that department over the Saturn. They blocked numerous games from being localized in America (like Rapid Reload which was a European launch titles, the PS1 Atelier titles, numerous other niche 2D RPGs etc.) unless they were from a big publisher that could afford to throw their weight around and had leverage. They didn't ease up on the restrictions for several years. All of this is public knowledge and has been talked about for many years from people who had problems trying to get games localized at the time and were told they couldn't by SCEA.
 

Tomba

Member
Mar 10, 2021
410
Sony arbitrary policies against not AAA-realistic games strike again. what a surprise