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OP
OP

Deleted member 36622

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 21, 2017
6,639
Why do you think upgrading something makes a game an RPG? Wtf

Cause it gives you decisions to make, it could pass as a progression system. (For me it should be referred as Action-Adventure, same as Monster Hunter)

My definition of RPG goes to back to what first RPG video games were and before that tabletop games that defined the genre.

The current definition of RPG i honestly don't get it.
 

Raza

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,567
Ohio
They probably should frame it as an RPG/Adventure award. Sort of like how movie awards throw in Musical/Comedy in one category. At least that way, there wouldn't be backlash, because people could then say "Ah, Detroit is an Adventure game, makes sense."
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
Early computers were incapable of replicating the DnD experience. Even now tech still cannot provide a true RPG experience. So people built games around the ruleset instead. Some developers (in Japan) thought these games were rad and started making their own without knowing what "role-playing" actually meant.
So role-playing was never a requirement for a video game to be an RPG. But having that DnD ruleset was.

This is why Detroit can't be an RPG despite players being able to role-play in it.

Why is it so hard for people on here to understand that?
 

Kass

Member
Oct 27, 2017
294
Do RPGs necessarily mean Levelling system and gear upgrades though ?
To me it's more about games that give you leeway in how you play / build ) your character (therefore why levelling systems are usually in the equation but I would not say they're required per say)and approach situations (for instance, moral choices).
 

wrowa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,373
I guess I can understand people classifying MHW as an Action RPG (similarly to how many people casually refer to Zelda as an RPG), although I'd disagree with that. Detroit, on the other hand, just doesn't make sense. It's only an RPG if you broaden the definition to a degree where its void of any meaning and could be used for pretty much every single game out there.
 

Depths

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,512
My definition of RPG goes to back to what first RPG video games were and before that tabletop games that defined the genre.

The current definition of RPG i honestly don't get it.

I mean yeah I look to D&D as well for the roots of what an RPG is. That's why I dont get why you said upgrading health makes something an RPG. That's such a small thing that so many games have.
 

Acetown

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,297
I dunno, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to classify Detroit as an RPG than something like Dark Souls. An RPG has to heavily emphasize the narrative, otherwise there's not much role playing to speak of.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,360
If Detroid is an RPG, so are 95% of every other game.

Gran Tourismo would be an RPG,
Call of Duty would be an RPG,
Factorio would be an RPG
Stardew Valley would be an RPG,
Spiderman would be an RPG,
God of War would be an RPG,
Street Fightert would be an RPG,

you get the gist.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 36622

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 21, 2017
6,639
I mean yeah I look to D&D as well for the roots of what an RPG is. That's why I dont get why you said upgrading health makes something an RPG. That's such a small thing that so many games have.

I do not, i said if you consider Monster Hunter an RPG and Breath of the Wild is also totally an RPG.

(But then even FIFA could be considered an RPG lol)
 

Kass

Member
Oct 27, 2017
294
If Detroid is an RPG, so are 95% of every other game.

Gran Tourismo would be an RPG,
Call of Duty would be an RPG,
Factorio would be an RPG
Stardew Valley would be an RPG,
Spiderman would be an RPG,
God of War would be an RPG,
Street Fightert would be an RPG,

you get the gist.

I think it qualifies, but I don't get the gist.
Sorry.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
Cause it gives you decisions to make, it could pass as a progression system.
So Detroit and Monster Hunter World don't give you decisions to make?

I haven't played either but I'd be surprised if they didn't.

So I think if you want to continue this line of reasoning then you need to expand it and explain it better.

So role-playing was never a requirement for a video game to be an RPG. But having that DnD ruleset was.
So only turn-based games can be RPGs?

Also only games that don't stray too far from DnD conventions and rules?
 

erd

Self-Requested Temporary Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,181
Monster Hunter World isn't an RPG and I have no idea why people think it is.
Probably because it contains pretty much every element people often associate with RPGs, including:
  • A huge focus on equipment and gear
  • A huge focus on stats
  • Usable items
  • Crafting
  • Skills
  • Quests
  • Dialogue with NPCs
  • An EXP/leveling system
  • Grinding
  • Different character classes and builds (though you can switch between them without re-rolling, but that's found in a lot of RPGs as well)
Seems pretty obvious why some (most? no idea honestly) would consider it an RPG.
 

Kass

Member
Oct 27, 2017
294
Seriously lol at all the people saying MHW and Detroit aren't RPG's but can't say what defines one except "xp bar".
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,102
MHW is technically an action-RPG. You do create a character and have all the tropes of a RPG. There are even ! quest givers. So yes, it's a RPG.

Detroit has branching paths and decisions so I guess you do role play the characters in the story.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,182
Indonesia
You can build any kind of character in Monster Hunter, but most of the customization is only affected by your weapon and armor, not your character. There's Hunter Rank but it doesn't affect anything at all to your character. That's what make MH games not really an RPG. But tbh, I'd still call it one.

At this point yes. You do upgrade your hearth and stamina, weapons,...
But not by normal means in RPG, which is xp and leveling system. Upgrades in BOTW are only achievable from side/story activities/unlockables. Armors have defense value so that's more on the RPG side, but the weapon system is not. Ultimately, Link doesn't have stats. There's no character growth and progression. He can learn new stuff but again, they'e story progression, not character. His moves are all the same from the beginning until the end of the game.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 36622

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 21, 2017
6,639
So Detroit and Monster Hunter World don't give you decisions to make?

I haven't played either but I'd be surprised if they didn't.

So I think if you want to continue this line of reasoning then you need to expand it and explain it better.

Re-read the post, there was a missing part.

I'd never consider BOTW, MH:W and especially D:BH as RPGs.

If the current definition of RPG is THAT vague to include everything, i don't even understand what's the point discussing which one is the best.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,359
With RPG I take it to mean something where you can trace it's roots to tabletop DnD style games. A lot of carefully curated choices by the player with regard to their specialties, their moral compass and usually (but not always) with a lot of these decisions dictated by a dice roll.

I don't think Detroit is that really. Yes you make decisions which cause branches in the narrative but you don't get deep into deciding what your character is good at and curating their growth (spending XP). The last part is a fairly major qualifying factor to the RPG label imo and has got to be more than a throway skill tree or upgrade system for weapons, it's got to be the backbone of how you engage with characters and enemies in the game

I fully realise that this post is all a bit "well acshually..." but that's what I think anyway.
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
Also only games that don't stray too far from DnD conventions and rules?

As long as the games ruleset descends from DnD clearly I think it's an easy candidate for the label.

I don't think it should be so strict. They don't have to be turn-based to be clearly RPGs.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,046
Actually, when you think about it, real life is also an RPG. You take control of a particular character, customize them and choose how to upgrade their skills, go on a whole lot of dumb quests, and proceed through hours and hours of a poorly written story.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
Re-read the post, there was a missing part.

I'd never consider BOTW, MH:W and especially D:BH as RPGs.
Well, you were asked why you thought an upgrade system made something an RPG and you responded that you thought that because it gave the player decisions to make.

I stand by the assertion that if you expect people to agree with you, you need to explain that line of reasoning as it applies to your definition RPGs.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,671
Miami
We used to be way better at classifying this stuff before now it's a mess. Detroit in no way is an RPG, get out of here with that. If what you do about 90% of the time is skill based combat, guess what you are an ACTION GAME. MHW is far more action adventure than it is RPG.

Same thing happened last year, horizon is an rpg cause guerrelia said so, get the hell out of here. Horizon is about as pure an an action adventure game there is.
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
Rpg's are hard to define.

People like to make an arbitrary, personal decision on the definition and then act like it's objectively correct, despite usually being unable to justify it.

I will say Detroit being called an RPG is silly though, since that basically opens the genre up to anything. The only thing it has in common is dialogue choices, but even then they're not really there to fill the same role as they do in RPG's.

Wherever the line is, and as blurry as it is, Detroit sits firmly before it.
 

Auctopus

Self-requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,073
Don't blame them after how fast and loose developers and publishers have used the term in recent years.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
It really feels like people who don't like actual RPGs very much want to see games they do like in every category and are eager to pretend the definition of RPG has changed drastically in the year that saw Dragon Quest 11 come out.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
RPG oringally meant role playing, like making choices and navigating consequences.

But for decades it was generally used to mean leveling, grinding exp, increasing stat numbers, and collecting loot.

It's okay that it's going back to its original meaning.
This. I think there's a distinction to be made between role-playing games, games that immerse you in a role and character, really puts you in their shoes, versus the stats, levels, XP, builds of an RPG.

Like I'd classify STALKER and RDR2 as role-playing games but not as RPGs. The former is more of a concept or tenet, similar to the design ideals of "immersive sim", while the latter is rigidly defined by the presence of certain mechanics and systems (ie stats, levels, skills, etc)
 

Nitpicker_Red

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,282
Unless I'm mistaken, I remember a time when Roleplaying game was in comparison to Arcade-style games.

Aka. the old "gameplay-focused" vs "story-focused", but with a more clear demarcation due to the lesser variety of games.
One had short "session" play, usually with score and motor skills, while the other had an ongoing story, extended progression mechanics and more strategic gameplay.

Games have changed since then, mostly including motor skills games with progression systems, making the old separation less useful.
 

Briarios

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,238
The best parts of the pen & paper RPGs I've played weren't the combat -- it was the interactions between PCs and NPCs ... That's what made it a role-playing game, not the stats, skills, etc
 

Deleted member 37739

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 8, 2018
908
We used to be way better at classifying this stuff before now it's a mess. Detroit in no way is an RPG, get out of here with that. If what you do about 90% of the time is skill based combat, guess what you are an ACTION GAME. MHW is far more action adventure than it is RPG.

Yup, most action games cater for multiple play-styles these days, allowing for ranged/melee, dexterity/strength builds, but I wouldn't call that role-playing. I think it's easy to confuse what are strictly mechanics - leveling systems, crafting, traversal, etc - with game intent.

I haven't played Detroit but isn't it an adventure game? Like, we've had a clear definition for this style of game for over 20 years. Why are people confused. It's genre is even listed as "adventure" on wikipedia.

Detroit is way closer to Broken Sword than it is to Baldur's Gate.
 

Depths

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,512
I haven't played Detroit but isn't it an adventure game? Like, we've had a clear definition for this style of game for over 20 years. Why are people confused. It's genre is even listed as "adventure" on wikipedia.
 

Deleted member 9714

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,882
MHW is not an RPG. MH has never been an RPG except for the 3DS monster catching game. They are action games. Detroit is most certainly not one either and the takes in the other thread agreeing that Detroit was an RPG are bizarre. Dark Souls, Bloodborne, and Breath of the Wild aren't RPGs as well. I think a lot of the gaming press and a decent population of Era users think anything with numbers or upgrades is an RPG. A lot of games have these "RPG-lite" elements without being one.
 

SAB-CA

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,159
The current definition of RPG i honestly don't get it.

Things just have expanded now. Definitions get looser as a wider audience is exposed to something.

Taken as the straight definition of the worlds "Role-Playing Game", anything similar to a visual novel, where you play the Role of specific characters, can be called an RPG.

But the graphics, attention to details, and proliferation of systems have crossed over a LOT now. Stat-based gameplay is no longer locked to a game with top-down strategic maps, that "zoom in" to show a second, newly draw set of detailed characters VS enemies, all contained within a turn-based, D&D derived system.

The stuff one does in Monster Hunter World is basically the same as one does in an Ys game. The only real difference is where the camera is focused while you play. The cinematics even feel like an evolution of what one would have seen in FFVII years ago.

Zelda is typically seen as an Action RPG series, but there's a lot of gameplay that it shares with something like Lost Planet, or a Resident Evil game, now. Shooters have damage numbers and status effects. Playing an actual defined role has spread to almost every gaming genre in existence. RACING GAMES have stories, and a cast of characters to meet now. The boundaries have definitely widened, and the differences have started to disappear.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
MHW is not an RPG. MH has never been an RPG except for the 3DS monster catching game. They are action games. Detroit is most certainly not one either and the takes in the other thread agreeing that Detroit was an RPG are bizarre. Dark Souls, Bloodborne, and Breath of the Wild aren't RPGs as well. I think a lot of the gaming press and a decent population of Era users think anything with numbers or upgrades is an RPG. A lot of games have these "RPG-lite" elements without being one.
If Bloodborne isn't then neither is DQXI
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,810
It says right in the name. Role playing. I think Detroit has far more going in the role playing aspect than some games people actually consider RPGs. Like JRPGs. Most of them have no role playing at all.

Early computers were incapable of replicating the DnD experience. Even now tech still cannot provide a true RPG experience. So people built games around the ruleset instead. Some developers (in Japan) thought these games were rad and started making their own without knowing what "role-playing" actually meant.
So role-playing was never a requirement for a video game to be an RPG. But having that DnD ruleset was.

This is why Detroit can't be an RPG despite players being able to role-play in it.

Why is it so hard for people on here to understand that?
Because DnD isn't the only RPG ruleset either? And because some interpretative RPGs might have no defined ruleset at all?