• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
Yup, Lem or Ronnie,who were the...less bad of the 4, were still corrupt, and Ronnie didnt even give a fuck later one.

Ronnie is an ice cold sociopath, in my opinion. He has zero emotional reaction to the information that Shane and Vic murdered a teammate in the pilot, saying "it had to be done, I just wish you'd told me, because we could coordinate our stories better".
Later on, the thing that bothers him most about the Shane/Lem situation, is apparently that Shane didn't consult Vic and Ronnie.

Ronnie can get fucked, I had zero empathy for him.
 

Ozzie666

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
121
It was a great show, with some life time best performances by several actors.

But it's also an example of an 'elite' above the normal team without proper oversight becoming corrupt. They become what they were hunting, got down to those levels. They couldn't get out. These guys weren't your average cops, they were above the law, because that is what their department made them. It holds up remarkably well, maybe a bit too close to current day thoughts about police. If your opinion on current law enforcement is highly negative, this show will only push you further into possible evil opinions. Not sure how many departments give a group of officers their own price den and locker room. Not even sure SWAT or special units get that. These weren't your average cops who rescued cats from trees.
 
OP
OP
RastaMentality
Oct 25, 2017
13,128
I just rewatched the whole series some months back. It's still good. But, I definitely had some issues with it. It felt super rare that you saw the actual negative results of Vic and the strike team. A minor character who I believe was a public defender shows up a couple of times to criticize him and we get some allusions and accusations. I think we literally see one person in the entire show who seems to be innocent despite the guys having sent him to prison. Also the guy Lem plants a gun on, but he is rewarded by the end of that episode by sleeping with that guys sister.

The show definitely paints the bad people (Vic and the team) as the "cool" guys who are right 99.9% of the time. They might step over the line, but it's justified because the person they are going after is the right bad guy. And the good people like Claudette and Dutch are painted as an uptight bitch and dork. If those nerds would just get out of the cool kids way, our crime problems would be solved. He does face personal consequences by the end, but even then, he's still the cool guy who hears a siren at the end and grabs his gun to head out into the night to do god knows what.

Any time someone is against Vic, they are painted in a bad light. The time that got me to roll my eyes the most was when Kavanaugh has the CI woman reporting. When Rawling kinda confronts her for betraying Vic, her retort is that she goes wherever the money is. Fuuuuuuck that. That is a scene that you see done a million times to Vic. But, when he is confronted with his shit, it is spun in a good sympathetic way where he'll do whatever it takes to help and protect his friends and family. But, no. You couldn't have the CI say something like "I have to do what I have to do to provide for my special needs son." It has to be said in a greedy "I need my money!" way.

Thaaaat all said. I did still enjoy the show. It is filled with great fucking performances. Walton Goggins is so fucking good, he should be in more shit. His final note about them making each other worse people and how he wish he'd never met Vic is some good shit that still gets me.
I just started rewatching The Shield yesterday with the very same idea that I might view it differently in light of the current protests.

Just for context, I consider this show to be the most impactful piece of art I've ever consumed across any medium, and I've seen the series three times (though it's been eight years since my last watch).

I've only rewatched the pilot so far, but I'm already finding it more striking given the circumstances.

The whole culture within the police precinct is rotten. This really stuck out to me when the sister of the homicide victim in Dutch's case falls at his knees crying, and the other cops on the force proceed to relentlessly make fun of him because it looked like he was getting blown. There's not even a passing thought of compassion for what the sister was going through.

Beyond that though, you can very much see the "it's us against the world" mindset the cops have. I always took it for granted when watching the show before, but the us vs. them mentality as opposed to the protect and serve one is very noticeable this time around.

And I love it! The thrust of the show has never been about glorifying crooked cops. It's about showing the power cops wield, how easy it is for them to win over peer and public opinion by taking care of *some* crime, and how the worst parts of the human condition can manifest when you endow arrogant tough guys with a gun and the backing of the state.

It's also important to note that the show makes it very explicit that this particular police force is located in one of the most crime-ridden, dangerous parts of the country. So there is a very real and legitimate threat of violence around every corner for them, which is vastly different than what the majority of corrupt police forces in the real world have to deal with. So yeah, it definitely explores the idea of how far down the crooked path cops should go in order to achieve some semblance of greater good for the community. It never answers the question directly though, which is part of why the show is so great—it presents profound morally gray territories and leaves it up you to determine what level of collateral damage is acceptable as a means to an end.
Thank y'all for some actual real analysis. I love the show too but I think there's way more nuanced approach to critiquing this particular show than just "It did everything right".
 

N64Controller

Member
Nov 2, 2017
8,338
03cbd1a4a98a45b2fe13d10dc28c96a2.jpg
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,520
Australia
I think the great thing about the show is that for the first season it's not massively clear about whether we are on the side of the strike team or rooting for them as bad guys, and it plays with the (then) pretty standard beats of network tv cop dramas. It's when it keeps returning to the very first episode, again and again, recasting the strike team as worse and worse with each linking back, that you really feel you're in the hands of some pretty masterful storytelling. And they are fun to hang out with, but that's Chiklis and Goggins (do you remember a world before you didn't love Walton Goggins? What a bleak time) and the amazing writing. They are the bad guys, and the 'good guy' cops are just as motivated by self-interest and flaws as we all are, and held back by the system and the apathy of the rest of the force. It's good stuff.
 

Deleted member 63846

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 14, 2020
190
That poor cat never saw Dutch coming.
Just kinda skimmed the thread and caught this and made me laugh out loud.Great show though. Glenn Close and Forest Whitaker are great in their seasons. The department and especially the the strike team I don't feel are super glorified.Vic and the other strike force team members certainly get their comeuppance.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,242
The Shield is definitely a sort of copaganda, it's just a different sort.

It's about dirty cops at it's core, but it makes sure to depict a lot of footsoldiers that are just Good Cops who are getting dragged into this shit by the dirty cops. That there's a body there that exists to do a good and noble job but there's just all this stuff that gets in the way. And, well, the fascist tactics of the strike team Just Gets Things Done from time to time, sometimes even for things they didn't cause in the first place.

Season 4 does this particularly. Glenn Close comes in as the new captain and her entire arc is supposed to be about Police Reform, she's just the Good Police Captain who gets roadblocked by politics and lets loose the monster she's been warned about to Get Results, until eventually her doing that causes enough political trouble and she's taken out of play. From a certain perspective, it's a fascinating character study of how the reformist impulse gets subsumed by the evilness of the job, particularly given the storyline about her starting an asset forfeiture program... except that's not really how it plays in the show. To the show, she goes down a hero, even after she gets the revelation that her requested IA investigation reveals they're dirty like she worried and her reaction to that is offer Vic a vague warning that IA is on him now, plus that bit of disgust she has for Emolia for assisting in taking down a dirty cop that she requested an investigation against.

Then season 5 leans heavily on the trope of IA being vindictive assholes who just hate cops.

That doesn't mean The Shield is Bad Now and people shouldn't watch it. There's a lot of interesting work in there, and as I wrote this and read some of the other posts, I think there might be probably-unintended reads that make me want to revisit some of it. But it's important to recognize how copaganda works, and The Shield definitely goes in for that "we could definitely do Good Policing but corruption and/or politics are getting in the way" alley that's maybe a little less recognizable here with the focus on indisputably dirty cops.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
The Shield is definitely a sort of copaganda, it's just a different sort.

It's about dirty cops at it's core, but it makes sure to depict a lot of footsoldiers that are just Good Cops who are getting dragged into this shit by the dirty cops.

Idk about that. I struggle to think of any untarnished, much less noble, footsoldiers being depicted. Even the uniforms (maybe with the exception of Dany) are often corrupt - the homophobes, the guys who do shady jobs in the off hours, the cops who flaunt the rules for a wink and a smile from one of the detectives.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,242
Idk about that. I struggle to think of any untarnished, much less noble, footsoldiers being depicted. Even the uniforms (maybe with the exception of Dany) are often corrupt - the homophobes, the guys who do shady jobs in the off hours, the cops who flaunt the rules for a wink and a smile from one of the detectives.

I probably should have worded it better. It still maintains the notion that this ideal exists even if it's not interested in depicting it. If you don't start from the place that there's a good and righteous police institution to be had, you kinda have to grapple with the question of whether cops should exist in the first place. The Shield doesn't tread into that territory, even when the rest of the presentation makes you think that it should, because it takes the concept of Good Police as something real even if it's not something they're depicting.

It's one of those things that's not present, but it's not present because they assume the idea is so ingrained in everyone's head that they don't need to depict it. It's just there and can be invoked whenever it's convenient.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
1,893
Half-way through season 2 (my fourth rewatch), and I still—STILL—can't help but find Vic to be anything other than a supreme badass. It's quite the amazing narrative trick—he's racist, corrupt, excessively violent, and refuses to answer to anyone but himself. Literally everything I (and most others on Era) hate about cops in the real world. But Vic still wins me over every damn time I watch this! I always love him right up until the confession scene when he admits to murdering Terry and the tone explicitly shifts from him being a morally gray anti-hero into being a full-blown villain.

Early on though the show does a great job at emphasizing the noble characters he does possess... a heart for victimized women, a zero-tolerance policy toward any and all crime that endangers children, loyalty towards his friends, and a sincere desire to ultimately do more good than harm with his crooked actions. Of course, he's still supremely manipulative and selfish even when exhibiting these qualities, but it's hard to get pissed about Vic's police brutality when he's searing a druglord's face on an oven plate after the guy raped a little girl and burned Vic's CI alive. The strike team deals with SUCH overwhelmingly evil people that their violent corruption often feels cathartic—for as misguided and crooked as they often are, they're still arbiters of justice for criminals who otherwise would escape the legal system entirely.

It also helps that Vic's most clear-cut evil act happens in the very first episode. It sets the bar so damn high that most other crimes Vic commits feel far less severe by comparison. Doing this really guides the viewer down this path of thinking "Hey, maybe he isn't such a bad guy after all!" once the heat from Terry's killing blows over.

Shane, however, is a much worse person than I remember from the last time I watched it. Him threatening to rape a woman to get her to flip on her criminal boyfriend in season 2 was... yeesh. I had completely forgotten about that. The worst part is that he totally would have done it, too. He's just an off-brand Vic wannabe who tries to pull the same crooked shit as his boss does but without the ability or moral compass to do it. As bad as Vic gets, he still has a personal code of ethics he won't violate... but Shane is only ever answering to his own inferiority complex issues.

tl;dr The Shield is still a gd masterpiece and I'm even MORE impressed watching it in the ACAB era than I ever have been before. Like I said, that the show can still get me to route for Vic despite knowing how bad of a guy he is while I'm simultaneously feeling overwhelming negativity and disdain toward the real-world police is nothing short of astounding.
 

Lonestar

Roll Tahd, Pawl
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,560
Thinking back on the show:
I still think of Vic's last scene in the barn, after Claudette showed him those photos. She leaves the interrogation room, and goes to the TV to watch him. Watch him as he looks, almost let it affect him emotionally, then sort of shake his head. You can see him compartmentalize the horror of the photos, and lock them away. Then realize he's being watched on camera. The scene + what comes after
 
Jun 22, 2019
3,660
Reviving this thread because I finally tried watching it (and I think I'm tapping out after finishing S3).

First off this shit is junkfood TV. It's a really trashy show. I dunno why people even put this in the same category as The Wire (which is probably my favorite TV show) when doling out recommendations (Vic is what Herc from The Wire imagines himself to be, and I mean that in the worst way possible). It's also definitely copaganda but in the "have your cake and eat it too" style where the cops are undeniably corrupt assholes and the writers are at least aware how real police function to protect themselves and their interests first, yet "the thin blue line" is in full effect where if some skinhead skull-cracking dumbass isn't out there busting heads, it means some meth addict will try to kill your baby or you're gonna get murdered and raped. The show definitely indirectly substantiates the use of illegal force to parrot that 'ol "gotta do the things that have to be done to protect others" BS. You seriously telling me a guy who killed a fellow cop wouldn't be accidentally murdering and imprisoning the wrong people in the streets all the time? Lmao.

The show rarely addresses underlying systemic issues and the few times it looks like it's about to actually do so, those threads just get dropped because we have some dumb power fantasy with Vic to enact where he has to bust skulls or fuck some random woman that will be forgotten about in a few episodes. The amount of problems Vic solves by shoving a gun in somebody's mouth is comical. That shit doesn't work. Forcibly interrogating people like that should have Vic hitting dead-ends and getting nowhere, yet trash TV fucking loooooves to pretend that torture is an effective way of gathering intel. The absolute worst thing about the show is that it pretends Vic's methods are effective, and so effective in-universe that it literally gives Vic gravitas to do whatever he wants while gaining respect even from those who are trying to uncover his dirty shit.

Having Vic be the MC is a fucking farcical power fantasy that's so grating to watch. Like after just a few episodes, I didn't want Vic to be the MC anymore and that only grew stronger until I stopped after finishing S3. The show isn't actually interested in exploring what it means for a city to be so crime-infested and where the systems in-place are failing from a conceptual standpoint, because that would take away time from Vic fucking another random woman he has zero chemistry with, so it uses the grizzly crime stuff as this glossy edgy try-hard veneer. The show doesn't actually respect the degree of violence it loves to regularly relish in. The few times the show gets close to making a point and actually exploring it in-depth, it backs off because it's clearly incapable of handling it with any sort of finesse and it's easier to just be an edgy binge-able trashfire fueled by shock value.

If it wasn't for CCH Pounder, I probably wouldn't have made it all the way to the end of S3. Seems unlikely the show will change much (plus I am so fucking bored of the Strike Team already), so I'm not feeling compelled to finish it. Many issues (the copaganda is the main one) frustrate me way too much for me to enjoy this sort of junkfood.

In this interview, Shawn Ryan said this about Vic:
"Ninety-eight percent of the time, he's doing the right thing,"
I have no idea how somebody could claim The Shield isn't copaganda when it was made with that perspective.
 
Last edited: