Does The Shield (2002-2008) hold up under anti-cop critique or does it need to be at least partially re-evaluated? [Spoilers]

[RastaMentality]

I finished The Shield the day before the Floyd protests and I've been wondering ever since if the show needs to be re-evaluated under a modern lens. There's a few plot threads throughout the show that usually come up as problematic:
- the use of police brutality for gaining information in investigations
- the entirety of the drug seizing storyline in S4 under Glenn Close - while the show punishes Close for the asset forfeiture policy not being effective, it only really half says through Julian that the busts are actively harming the communities they're doing them in. The main reason it gets ended is because the department wants to save face from bad publicity.
- among others

On the flip side, the show does show exactly how hard it is to fire/get rid of corrupt cops along wit how damn easy it is for other officers and superiors to get caught in a web of corruption. It does a fantastic job of showing just how evil cops are as a collective.

I didn't want this thread to be about my evaluations but more so about where folks think this show falls short. So discuss.

 

[Mekanos]

Even when I watched the show a couple of years ago I felt mixed on it. I think ultimately the show takes the stance that being a cop makes you an asshole, but it's a dog eat dog world out there, so sometimes you need an asshole to save the day. It goes a lot into detail about police corruption and brutality, but it feels a bit like it tries to have its cake and eat it too; it shows how corrupt and compromised policing is, but also that to get the job done, in the show's point of view, you gotta be evil on some level.

It definitely takes pleasure in soaking in the nihilism and violence at times. It's a pretty brutal show. Utterly fantastic though.

 

[Betty]

The strike team is essentially Walter White way after he broke bad. They're bad guys essentially even from episode one.

I think it does a great job showing how corrupt police can be and in the current climate is just as worthwhile as ever.

 

[RastaMentality]

Even when I watched the show a couple of years ago I felt mixed on it. I think ultimately the show takes the stance that being a cop makes you an asshole, but it's a dog eat dog world out there, so sometimes you need an asshole to save the day. It goes a lot into detail about police corruption and brutality, but it feels a bit like it tries to have its cake and eat it too; it shows how corrupt and compromised policing is, but also that to get the job done, in the show's point of view, you gotta be evil on some level.

It definitely takes pleasure in soaking in the nihilism and violence at times. It's a pretty brutal show. Utterly fantastic though.

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I agree with this. Absolutely incredible show with an amazing character study of the two leads. The actual cop stuff is what makes me feel weird. And especially since I just finished it, it feels even weirder in this climate. It does give me comfort that actual cops hate this show and always call it "wildly unrealistic" because it shows cops being evil lmao.

 

[NinjaScooter]

I just rewatched it earlier this year when the quarantines started. Even though it is based around some deep seeded corruption in the police force, particularly around the Strike Team, it still suffers from some glorification. They still try to go out of their way to paint Vic and his team as guys who do bad, but whose hearts are often in the right place. Even the moral compass of the show, Claudette, embraces Vic's dirty/questionable tactics when she sees it as a means to an end. It really feels like its trying to defend the notion that even "good cops" have to get dirty sometimes, and the Strike Team don't really get their comeuppance until they get really "villainous" (particularly Shane and Vic). It sort of seems as though had they just remained corrupt, racist, shitty cops, they would have maintained the status quo and everyone would have continued to look the other way.

Parts of the show haven't aged to well (some of the writing/acting in particular is pretty bad) but I still think it's a good show when you consider the context of its era.

 

[Pooh]

I think it's good still. They show you episode 1 that Strike Team is filled with bad guys, any the only reason you empathize is because like anybody else they are human with shades of grey in other areas of their lives. Nobody besides guys like Trump are 100% evil, and it's more compelling that the show lets you see how easy and common it is for these guys to convince themselves that what they do is okay because they see themselves as good guys.

 

[Mekanos]

I agree with this. Absolutely incredible show with an amazing character study of the two leads. The actual cop stuff is what makes me feel weird. And especially since I just finished it, it feels even weirder in this climate. It does give me comfort that actual cops hate this show and always call it "wildly unrealistic" because it shows cops being evil lmao.

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Yeah, to me the heart of the show is the Strike Team and the web of lies and crimes they weave (particularly Vic, who is incredibly charismatic and intelligent, absolutely captivating performance by Chiklis). The b-plots with Claudette, Dutch, Dany, Jules, etc. are there to usually to provide a contrast, and they tackle a lot of corruption both among themselves and the department. Nobody comes out of the show looking clean, but it doesn't quite feel like it goes all the way into a hard anti-cop stance, because it definitely glorifies it and leans into pulpy drama and action, which makes for incredible TV.

Even when they introduce Kavanaugh (one of the best seasons of TV I've ever seen), who is doing what is nominally a good thing as Internal Affairs, he has his own vices and ultimately tries to game the system to catch Vic. None of the cops are heroic, to be certain, but it kinda feels like it deems average police corruption and brutality "acceptable" on some level because they are dealing with high level criminals (including the Strike Tream).

Overall I don't think the Shield is super interested in moralizing, it touches quite a lot on social issues, but it ultimately uses the police as a framework to tell a timeless story about greed, hubris, violence, corruption, and betrayal.

 

[spx54]

the show is somewhat sympathetic towards Vic but the ending really leaves with you the impression that he's the fucking devil

 

[Puroresu_kid]

I think it does a great job showing what cunts cops can be.

It's not like the strike team are celebrated. The non strike team characters know how bad the strike team are and want them gone.

 

[Blader]

Its been years since I watched the show. I loved it. Seasons 5 and 7 especially hit me in the gut hard in a way that few shows or movies ever do. But because its been like 12 years since I watched, and I've only seen it the one time, I can't speak to very many specifics. I would say probably off hand the biggest problematic part of the show is that Vic and Shane are both the good guys and the bad guys; they unambiguously do terrible, awful things, to others and each other, that they get away with (for the most part) of the protection their job offers them. The show is absolutely an indictment of them as individuals and of that kind of cop persona and culture.

At the same time, Claudette and Dutch are not the leads, Forrest Whitaker's IA character is definitely framed as an antagonist. So the 'good cops' trying to nail the bad ones aren't exactly the characters the show wants you to root for. And to the extent it wants you to root for Vic is complicated, but it's kind of like Walter White or Dexter or Tony Soprano, in that here's a bad guy doing really bad things, and here's a story built around showing how he overcomes the hurdles put up by good people around him, and don't you feel satisfied when he manages to overcome that 'adversity.' If you know what I mean.

It's a more nuanced show than I can really pin down in writing, and I definitely don't think it's any kind of pro-cop, blue lives matter hagiography. Ultimately the premise of the show is about cops who kill other cops out of greed and self-interest, and it's based on the real Rampart scandal which is hardly a tribute to police officers lol. I think at the end of the day there's probably some element to it that forces you to ultimately want to root for Vic, et al. to some degree just by virtue of the fact that he's the main character of the show. But altogether it leaves this taste in your mouth of policing just being a straight up dirty business for everyone.

 

[TaterTots]

One of my favorite shows. By the time the series ends you are hoping for the worst for Vic.

 

[Decado]

These are not good guys. I don't think they were ever meant to be viewed that way....

 

[Possum Armada]

I tried to watch this show for the first time last year and found all of the characters to be so simplistic and one dimensional that it bordered on satire.

 

[Chemo]

They are very up front with viewers that Vic Mackey is the bad guy of the show. You're supposed to understand this from the very beginning (the pilot). The fact that Mackey likes brutalizing people to get what he wants and is a big fan of asset seizures should pretty plainly lay out which side of those issues is the right one.

I honestly don't think the show falls short at all. My all-time favourite.

I tried to watch this show for the first time last year and found all of the characters to be so simplistic and one dimensional that it bordered on satire.

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What a take.

 

[Rhaknar]

the show is somewhat sympathetic towards Vic but the ending really leaves with you the impression that he's the fucking devil

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no it isnt. Vic straight up murders someone in the very first episode. He was always the bad guy. The whole strike team are the bad guys, they are corrupt cops. Just because they are the protagonists doesnt change that.

And I love the show, but it's like when people don't see that Walter White was in fact... THE BAD GUY.

 

[Haloid1177]

The Shield is pretty damning on the police force overall. Like yeah it's got some of that vigilante glorification but I don't think those moments make the audience like the strike team.

 

[Ithil]

You seem to be forgetting that Vic Mackey is the villain. Protagonist yes, but an out and out villain from the first episode to the last.

 

[Deleted member 46948]

the show is somewhat sympathetic towards Vic but the ending really leaves with you the impression that he's the fucking devil

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Yeah, this.
The last season especially shows that he only sees himself as a good guy, but he's a completely ruthless sociopath who will sacrifice anyone and anything.

Chiklis gave a once-in-a-lifetime performance, though. It's an amazing show.

 

[breakdancing duck]

I tried to watch this show for the first time last year and found all of the characters to be so simplistic and one dimensional that it bordered on satire.

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Did you not get past the second episode?

 

[RastaMentality]

You seem to be forgetting that Vic Mackey is the villain. Protagonist yes, but an out and out villain from the first episode to the last.

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I understand that but I'm talking about a closer look at the plot threads throughout the show and if they need to be re evaluated. The show as a whole is pretty anti cop.

 

[breakdancing duck]

The Shield is pretty damning on the police force overall. Like yeah it's got some of that vigilante glorification but I don't think those moments make the audience like the strike team.

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Lem had shades of being a good guy...

 

[ConradCervantes]

Shawn Ryan was inspired by the Rampart scandal to create this series, so it was never going to be a ringing endorsement of law enforcement. Even the "good" cops that the show focuses on (Dutch and Wyms, e.g.) compromise their integrity in the name of justice at times, and the show never glorified them for it.

 

[ZackieChan]

These are not good guys. I don't think they were ever meant to be viewed that way....

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I mean they kill a fellow officer in the first episode - they're definitely not the good guys. It's just more ambiguous whether the show sees them as "bad," or "what's needed."

 

[shaneo632]

I've not seen it in years but there were extremely few characters to like. Lem was the "soul" of the Strike Team but he still partook in immensely shitty things throughout the show. Vic and Shane just happened to be bigger heaps of trash.

 

[Deleted member 60582]

It holds up. Vic and the Strike Team are irredeemable since episode one, and even the "good" cops are at best morally grey. It was also based on a real-life case:

Rampart scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mekanos]

no it isnt. Vic straight up murders someone in the very first episode. He was always the bad guy. The whole strike team are the bad guys, they are corrupt cops. Just because they are the protagonists doesnt change that.

And I love the show, but it's like when people don't see that Walter White was in fact... THE BAD GUY.

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The thing is you could make a case Vic shooting Terry is the most evil thing he's ever depicted doing in the show so I think it makes the show interesting in that you start with him at his lowest and spend seven seasons in his head. It's basically impossible to not sympathize with him at some point; he's so damn clever and charming that at times it's hard to not root for him. It's intentional and meant to make the audience feel conflicted even when the cold intellectual reading of the text is that he's a mass murdering criminal who needs life in prison - this is the entire thesis of the finale.

I loved the Sopranos but I never once sympathized for Tony or rooted for him.

 

[Pooh]

no it isnt. Vic straight up murders someone in the very first episode. He was always the bad guy. The whole strike team are the bad guys, they are corrupt cops. Just because they are the protagonists doesnt change that.

And I love the show, but it's like when people don't see that Walter White was in fact... THE BAD GUY.

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I think the confusion people have is that if you spend time with any three-dimensional character you will sympathize with them on some level. A lot of people can sympathize with Vic on the stresses of a marriage spiraling out of control, for instance. Vic is still a human being who hurts in the same way humans do. Same thing with Walter White; we can understand his despair at his prognosis, his unhappiness with his position in life and his job, the feeling that he isn't respected. And that is GOOD -- it makes them compelling characters and ones that ENHANCE, not detract from, the story being told. A lot of people think if you do anything to make a bad guy seem human then it's idolizing them in some way. Instead, what it is doing is showing you that villains are generally people who made bad choices, and sometimes are compelled to do so in bad circumstances. A good story tells us something about ourselves, just like any good art does.

Definitely some people don't understand what the message is, but I don't put that on the art. Just as there is no universal human lived experience, there is no universal way to communicate to an audience. We can definitely look at what we perceive as the author or artists' intent was, however, and in that we can all certainly agree that Vic and Walter are both villainous men.

 

[Deleted member 46948]

The thing is you could make a case Vic shooting Terry is the most evil thing he's ever depicted doing in the show so I think it makes the show interesting in that you start with him at his lowest and spend seven seasons in his head. It's basically impossible to not sympathize with him at some point; he's so damn clever and charming that at times it's hard to not root for him. It's intentional and meant to make the audience feel conflicted even when the cold intellectual reading of the text is that he's a mass murdering criminal who needs life in prison - this is the entire thesis of the finale.

I loved the Sopranos but I never once sympathized for Tony or rooted for him.

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Yeah, a lot of people are conflicted over this, because it shows that even a murderous, corrupt piece of shit can be fun to be around, charming and genuinely funny (because Vic is all that). The camaraderie of the strike team is in stark contrast to the crimes they're actually committing.

 

[spx54]

the way Shane's storyline ends is probably the darkest thing I've ever seen on TV. so glad I didn't get that spoiled for me

 

[ShortNasty]

I'm almost positive the show is based in part on the CRASH unit, and more specifically some of the bs that came out with the Rampart scandal. So in that context, it's definitely a show about corrupt ass cops, how we empowered them to not only be corrupt, but to also have this wild ass idea that their methods were more than just base criminality. Every single "good" cop in this show gets fucked over heavily and repeatedly.

So nah, no need to re-examine anything. It's a pretty good window in the kind of evil we let loose in order to appear tough on crime.

CRASH Wikipedia
Rampart Scandal Wiki

 

[Deleted member 46948]

I'm almost positive the show is based in part on the CRASH unit, and more specifically some of the bs that came out with the Rampart scandal. So in that context, it's definitely a show about corrupt ass cops, how we empowered them to not only be corrupt, but to also have this wild ass idea that their methods were more than just base criminality. Every single "good" cop in this show gets fucked over heavily and repeatedly.

So nah, no need to re-examine anything. It's a pretty good window in the kind of evil we let loose in order to appear tough on crime.

CRASH Wikipedia

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Well it was originally supposed to be called "Rampart", so... yeah.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

That poor cat never saw Dutch coming.

 

[ShortNasty]

Well it was originally supposed to be called "Rampart", so... yeah.

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I was trying to be cute and do it just of memory. I had no idea about the alternate title. But yea, with that info it's clear as day. A show about evil people doing evil shit, while trying to tell themselves they're good.

 

[Astro Cat]

They've always been absolutely horrible since the pilot. They're never portrayed as heroes or even halfway decent from what I remember and most of them got what deserved. Love that show.

 

[subpar spatula]

The show is good because it shows how even a moral compass like Claudette is pretty corrupt too.

It is hard to actually create media around individuals without audiences actually liking them. Hannibal is a serial killer but there are folks who still bat for him. That is the nature of story telling.

 

[NinjaScooter]

They've always been absolutely horrible since the pilot. They're never portrayed as heroes or even halfway decent from what I remember and most of them got what deserved. Love that show.

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I don't completely agree. It's not until the final season or two where both Shane and Vic become full mask off villains in service of themselves only. Prior to that, even though they are monsters, you get moments where they try to paint Vic as being morally more "grey" than he really is. A lot of "lets drop all the corrupt shit we're doing and work together to get the bad guy" episodes. And then there is Lem and Ronnie, who are sometimes outright portrayed as victims. Granted they weren't involved in the murdering of an officer (though Ronnie later admits he knew), they had their fair share of dirt. If they were real life cops involved in what they were involved in nobody would feel bad for them. I don't even say this as a fault on the show, I think its part of the reason it's so compelling. It's the same dynamic that makes shows like Mad Men, the Sopranos and Breaking Bad so good.

 

[Lonestar]

the way Shane's storyline ends is probably the darkest thing I've ever seen on TV. so glad I didn't get that spoiled for me

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This.

For as despicable a character as that was, oof. The end of that still sits with me to this day.

I'm so happy that Walton Goggins has gotten some good work after the show, even into shows with comedic leanings (Vice Principals, Righteous Gemstones).

The show really is about the eventual downfall of Criminals. They were never good. I struggle to think of any altruistic acts by the Strike Team. They were either done to protect/further their power, or to protect/get payback for someone in their sphere of influence.

 

[Astro Cat]

I don't completely agree. It's not until the final season or two where both Shane and Vic become full mask off villains in service of themselves only. Prior to that, even though they are monsters, you get moments where they try to paint Vic as being morally more "grey" than he really is. A lot of "lets drop all the corrupt shit we're doing and work together to get the bad guy" episodes. And then there is Lem and Ronnie, who are sometimes outright portrayed as victims. Granted they weren't involved in the murdering of an officer (though Ronnie later admits he knew), they had their fair share of dirt. If they were real life cops involved in what they were involved in nobody would feel bad for them. I don't even say this as a fault on the show, I think its part of the reason it's so compelling. It's the same dynamic that makes shows like Mad Men, the Sopranos and Breaking Bad so good.

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Tbh I've forgotten most of what happened in the final seasons as I haven't watched them since they aired and I was obsessed. I definitely remember Lem getting fucked. Most of what I remember from the end is even if Shane was the shows biggest asshole his ending really got me. Definitely deserved in the Breaking Bad way, still really sad. But yeah, I agree the Shield hits that same vibe for me.

 

[Possum Armada]

Did you not get past the second episode?

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Made it two seasons. Everything just seemed way too "try hard" for me

 

[wenis]

the show rocks. never thought it painted the cops portrayed in the show in any sort of positive light. Everyone is a self serving asshole besides Claudette and we see how that basically destroys her through the run of the show.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

This.

For as despicable a character as that was, oof. The end of that still sits with me to this day.

I'm so happy that Walton Goggins has gotten some good work after the show, even into shows with comedic leanings (Vice Principals, Righteous Gemstones).

The show really is about the eventual downfall of Criminals. They were never good. I struggle to think of any altruistic acts by the Strike Team. They were either done to protect/further their power, or to protect/get payback for someone in their sphere of influence.

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Vic did seem to legitimately care for some of his CIs... but they also had a purpose being his CIs. 😂

The Shield, overall, is incredible, though. Tackles some tough issues, the overall cast is outstanding, has one of the best finales I've ever seen, and it has Carl Weathers. A+

 

[Deleted member 7092]

I just started rewatching The Shield yesterday with the very same idea that I might view it differently in light of the current protests.

Just for context, I consider this show to be the most impactful piece of art I've ever consumed across any medium, and I've seen the series three times (though it's been eight years since my last watch).

I've only rewatched the pilot so far, but I'm already finding it more striking given the circumstances.

The whole culture within the police precinct is rotten. This really stuck out to me when the sister of the homicide victim in Dutch's case falls at his knees crying, and the other cops on the force proceed to relentlessly make fun of him because it looked like he was getting blown. There's not even a passing thought of compassion for what the sister was going through.

Beyond that though, you can very much see the "it's us against the world" mindset the cops have. I always took it for granted when watching the show before, but the us vs. them mentality as opposed to the protect and serve one is very noticeable this time around.

And I love it! The thrust of the show has never been about glorifying crooked cops. It's about showing the power cops wield, how easy it is for them to win over peer and public opinion by taking care of *some* crime, and how the worst parts of the human condition can manifest when you endow arrogant tough guys with a gun and the backing of the state.

It's also important to note that the show makes it very explicit that this particular police force is located in one of the most crime-ridden, dangerous parts of the country. So there is a very real and legitimate threat of violence around every corner for them, which is vastly different than what the majority of corrupt police forces in the real world have to deal with. So yeah, it definitely explores the idea of how far down the crooked path cops should go in order to achieve some semblance of greater good for the community. It never answers the question directly though, which is part of why the show is so great—it presents profound morally gray territories and leaves it up you to determine what level of collateral damage is acceptable as a means to an end.

 

[breakdancing duck]

Made it two seasons. Everything just seemed way too "try hard" for me

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I binged the show over a decade ago so I can't remember everything. I do remember thinking it went from an entertaining show to an incredible one in the later seasons.

 

[Deleted member 46948]

Great, you fuckers made me start my 4th rewatch of this show. Thanks a lot.

 

[Psamtik]

The toughest thing about The Shield, in retrospect, is separating Michael Jace's excellent onscreen work from Michael Jace, convicted murderer.

 

[Renna Hazel]

Cops were just as bad in 2002 so the show remains unchanged for me. Still an amazing show and it shows what cops are really like. Even Lem, who tried to do good, was corrupted by the cop culture.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I just rewatched the whole series some months back. It's still good. But, I definitely had some issues with it. It felt super rare that you saw the actual negative results of Vic and the strike team. A minor character who I believe was a public defender shows up a couple of times to criticize him and we get some allusions and accusations. I think we literally see one person in the entire show who seems to be innocent despite the guys having sent him to prison. Also the guy Lem plants a gun on, but he is rewarded by the end of that episode by sleeping with that guys sister.

The show definitely paints the bad people (Vic and the team) as the "cool" guys who are right 99.9% of the time. They might step over the line, but it's justified because the person they are going after is the right bad guy. And the good people like Claudette and Dutch are painted as an uptight bitch and dork. If those nerds would just get out of the cool kids way, our crime problems would be solved. He does face personal consequences by the end, but even then, he's still the cool guy who hears a siren at the end and grabs his gun to head out into the night to do god knows what.

Any time someone is against Vic, they are painted in a bad light. The time that got me to roll my eyes the most was when Kavanaugh has the CI woman reporting. When Rawling kinda confronts her for betraying Vic, her retort is that she goes wherever the money is. Fuuuuuuck that. That is a scene that you see done a million times to Vic. But, when he is confronted with his shit, it is spun in a good sympathetic way where he'll do whatever it takes to help and protect his friends and family. But, no. You couldn't have the CI say something like "I have to do what I have to do to provide for my special needs son." It has to be said in a greedy "I need my money!" way.

Thaaaat all said. I did still enjoy the show. It is filled with great fucking performances. Walton Goggins is so fucking good, he should be in more shit. His final note about them making each other worse people and how he wishes he'd never met Vic is some good shit that still gets me.

 

[menacer]

The Strike Team were dirty but it was always Vic and Shane who did the worst of it all.

Spoiler

Shane killing Lem at the end of Season 5 was shocking and then him trying to justify it when Vic found out was disgusting

 

[Rhaknar]

I "sympathize" with Vic, Walter or Tony the same way I sympathize with... I dunno, Vader.

There's always the "coolness" to villains, unfortunately thats just a fact. They are still pieces of shit and i'm still rooting against them, even if I "like" the characters.

Cops were just as bad in 2002 so the show remains unchanged for me. Still an amazing show and it shows what cops are really like. Even Lem, who tried to do good, was corrupted by the cop culture.

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Yup, Lem or Ronnie,who were the...less bad of the 4, were still corrupt, and Ronnie didnt even give a fuck later one.

 

[Mekanos]

The dialogue is definitely cheeseball at times but that's part of the charm I think. I watched the show in 2018 and came out absolutely loving it. I was hooked from episode 1. One of the best cliffhangers I've ever seen in a pilot.