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dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
If they have to reboot it, I want to see a more meticulous fighting engine that alters the scope of the gameplay in general to be more close quarters and to the ground without sacrificing platforms and the general basic gameplay. Put a greater degree of control to moves (wider variety of tilt variations, etc.) and make hitboxes more intricate. Maybe opt for more background interaction than the stage obstacles we have now.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,440
I dunno if they will hard reboot it, but this model isn't sustainable for the franchise. Bringing back the same characters and stages will require them adding a new coat of paint each time to them, which will suck up resources from new content as we saw with the lower amount of new characters and stages in Ultimate.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,529
Spain
Guys, it does not take a reboot to change the veterans' moveset. That's like a sledgehammer to crack a nut
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,387
Houston, TX
People think it'll be a reboot because this last one set a precedent that many think can't be topped. I personally just want them to keep building upon Ultimate.
That would involve renegotiating with the third parties involved anytime they want to port Ultimate, & we supposedly came close to losing Cloud. Not to mention that you have to consider balancing all of these characters, hence why I'm saying that constantly building on top of Ultimate for years to come isn't sustainable for the long-term. Hell, like I said already, I'm not even expecting that much DLC for Ultimate, with me expecting Sakurai & Co. to close up shop after the Fighters Pass is done.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,387
Houston, TX
Whatever happens, Melee is the best
At this point, I'm of the opinion that Melee can't be topped in terms of gameplay. But I can respect that Ultimate comes as close as reasonably possible.

Guys, it does not take a reboot to change the veterans' moveset. That's like a sledgehammer to crack a nut
True, but you're more likely to see a moveset rework when you start from scratch, as shown by Street Fighter. You wouldn't have gotten such a massive rework for Cody's design & moveset if they just copy-pasted SFIV assets for SFV.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,440
I think the reason why people may say reboot is because doing a standard Smash with 1/3rd of the cast would be a hard sell after Ultimate, so maybe Sakurai would pivot in a new direction for the series.
 

Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,077
Just do a DX release with all DLC, a few new characters, stages, modes and done.

Some people will moan but it will still sell 10+ million.
 

Elshyguy

Banned
Jul 28, 2018
55
What it needs it's a good clean up, remove half of the Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters and keep adding newcomers.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,529
Spain
At this point, I'm of the opinion that Melee can't be topped in terms of gameplay. But I can respect that Ultimate comes as close as reasonably possible.


True, but you're more likely to see a moveset rework when you start from scratch, as shown by Street Fighter. You wouldn't have gotten such a massive rework for Cody's design & moveset if they just copy-pasted SFIV assets for SFV.
Is it worth losing 30 characters for Mario to stop using the FLUDD?
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
That would involve renegotiating with the third parties involved anytime they want to port Ultimate, & we supposedly came close to losing Cloud. Not to mention that you have to consider balancing all of these characters, hence why I'm saying that constantly building on top of Ultimate for years to come isn't sustainable for the long-term. Hell, like I said already, I'm not even expecting that much DLC for Ultimate, with me expecting Sakurai & Co. to close up shop after the Fighters Pass is done.

I totally see your point and how unsustainable it actually is. It's just too many characters for a fighting game. But what if, big if, they pulled it off? What if they completely reworked the original veterans but still let you use the old ones? New age Mario is selectable along side original Smash Mario.

I was impressed we got Snake and Cloud back for this one, it would be a shame to lose them again for the next one. I can absolutely see that happening, but in a perfect world I wouldn't want that to happen. Let's hope Sakurai and Nintendo(and square and Konami lol) want to make that perfect world.
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,385
There shouldn't be a next Smash. Nintendo should support this game for years. Like what Ubisoft is doing with their multiplayer games. There's really no reason to release a sequel if the foundation is good. Content updates are enough.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,387
Houston, TX
Is it worth losing 30 characters for Mario to stop using the FLUDD?
It wouldn't just be for having Mario ditch FLUDD. And let's be honest, a good chunk of the characters would be gone no matter what. At least starting from scratch would allow you to fully capitalize of the next system's horsepower.
 

Dreavus

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Jan 12, 2018
1,729
I just hope DLC continues for a while with this one. Maybe we'll see a fighter pass 2.

Beyond that I don't know. I thinkit's too early to say. I don't think they'll do "everyone is here" again because that starts getting crazy huge. I mean, I'd love it, but I get that it's a little unrealistic.

Honestly I don't know where you go from here. I don't really know if Smash needs a "reboot" or not, but after doing this big reunion of stages/characters, it's tricky to top.
 

Deleted member 4093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,671
At this point, I'm of the opinion that Melee can't be topped in terms of gameplay. But I can respect that Ultimate comes as close as reasonably possible.


True, but you're more likely to see a moveset rework when you start from scratch, as shown by Street Fighter. You wouldn't have gotten such a massive rework for Cody's design & moveset if they just copy-pasted SFIV assets for SFV.
I actually like ultimate better as I haven't played melee seriously in years. I was being sarcastic lol
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,529
Spain
It wouldn't just be for having Mario ditch FLUDD. And let's be honest, a good chunk of the characters would be gone no matter what. At least starting from scratch would allow you to fully capitalize of the next system's horsepower.

It will be difficult to sell a Smash that is played the same but with fewer characters even if it has new movesets.

The rest of the fighting games does not seem to go well with that model. Street Fighter is a bad example today
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,387
Houston, TX
Neoxon
Thoughts on my previous post regarding movesets.
So basically expanding on custom moves, that would be pretty cool.

I'll say the same thing that I say in the threads of Pokémon: How do you decide which characters leave and which ones remain?

What makes Captain Falcon more relevant than Chrom in 2018, for example?
Basically the same way Street Fighter, Tekken, & Mortal Kombat approach deciding the roster. I don't see how Smash is any different, as even Sakurai said that doing something like Ultimate is a one-time thing.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
I dont think its necessary to reboot the game. Provided the ultimate lasts the lifetime of the switch and the switch has a long lifetime, that gives the team plenty of time to work on a new game with just as many characters and stages. If you wanna rework characters that's fine some need to be updated but otherwise the formula for smash shouldn't radically be altered. And i dont think changes like that require complete overhauls.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,529
Spain
So basically expanding on custom moves, that would be pretty cool.


Basically the same way Street Fighter, Tekken, & Mortal Kombat approach deciding the roster. I don't see how Smash is any different, as even Sakurai said that doing something like Ultimate is a one-time thing.
But as I'm saying, it does not seem that most of the fighting games are working well with that model.

You could say that the Smash model is the most commercially successful.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,387
Houston, TX
But as I'm saying, it does not seem that most of the fighting games are working well with that model.

You could say that the Smash model is the most commercially successful.
It will be difficult to sell a Smash that is played the same but with fewer characters even if it has new movesets.

The rest of the fighting games does not seem to go well with that model. Street Fighter is a bad example today
So you think everyone should be reusing assets for sequels? As for Street Fighter, that's just how things go, starting from zero for each numbered game & only doing editions (or seasons in SFV's case) as a means of building on top of the existing assets.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,529
Spain
So you think everyone should be reusing assets for sequels? As for Street Fighter, that's just how things go, starting from zero for each numbered game & only doing editions (or seasons in SFV's case) as a means of building on top of the existing assets.
I do not know what SHOULD be but it is clear that the Smash model is the most successful of all.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,387
Houston, TX
I do not know what SHOULD be but it is clear that the Smash model is the most successful of all.
True. But on top of Smash being Smash (I.E. a shit-ton of Nintendo characters & quite a few third party guests), having that many characters is likely a balancing nightmare, one that games like Street Fighter & Tekken (where esports is taken more seriously) wouldn't want to incur.
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,806
Seeing how much is in Ultimate already, the next Smash would leave Sakurai a empty husk if it doesn't kill him already.

I couldn't even think of how it would look like considering how complete ultimate already is.
 

shiftplusone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,401
fuckin game isn't even out for 2 weeks and hasn't had a single character added or finished its DLC and you weirdos are already arguing about the sequel

anyway, sakurai needs a break so whatever it is I hope he stays safe lol
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,387
Houston, TX
fuckin game isn't even out for 2 weeks and hasn't had a single character added or finished its DLC and you weirdos are already arguing about the sequel

anyway, sakurai needs a break so whatever it is I hope he stays safe lol
Sakurai will probably get his break after the Fighters Pass is done. He more than earned it (hell, he probably needs it).
 

Deleted member 2669

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
There are some people who are wondering, "What will you do for the next game?" No matter how you think about it, the number of fighters is likely to decrease, and you can't really fake people out again by revealing that everyone's coming back. The announcement that "Everyone is Here" was met with cheers and applause, but it can only happen once. In that sense, we may have opened Pandora's Box and crushed the potential of future Smash titles.

Sakurai's words on the matter.

The roster just isn't sustainable and they'd have a hard time selling a new game with less content but roughly the same gameplay.

They can make noticeable changes within the same framework so it's not like it'd need a genre shift like becoming a 3D brawler. It can be about as different as Melee was to 64.

At any rate, Ultimate will have long, long legs. I wouldn't expect to see another Smash for a long time.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,920
Smash 6 should just be an updated port of Ultimate.

Add 6-7 more newcomers, make a new Adventure mode that improves off of WoL, and go wild with adding additional single player modes. At this point, rebooting the series would be a waste.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,123
So basically expanding on custom moves, that would be pretty cool.
Closer to MKX's system in how the moves function and intention. Basically meant to allow you to represent a wider range of abilities the characters have had over the years instead of cherry picking certain things and getting saddled with a one off (see: FLUDD)

But it can use custom's pick'n'mix style.
 

ned_ballad

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,251
Rochester, New York
No

People buy Smash Bros for the roster. Cutting the roster is an immensely stupid idea that would kill the series.

They probably don't need to bring back everyone again, but talks of going to 20-30 characters are nonsense.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
It mostly sounds like people to want a reboot to justify replacing characters who in their opinion "don't belong" with characters they want-I mean more deserving ones.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,529
Spain
True. But on top of Smash being Smash (I.E. a shit-ton of Nintendo characters & quite a few third party guests), having that many characters is likely a balancing nightmare, one that games like Street Fighter & Tekken (where esports is taken more seriously) wouldn't want to incur.
In these things I think that the strengths of Smash that make it sells what it sell sare not precisely the competitive or the balance, as in Mario Kart.
 

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,270
Outside of a small handful of Nintendo characters who aren't in yet how the fuck can the roster even expand beyond what it is?
Lol every time a new character is announced you get droves of people saying "but why not X character instead."

... this is not an endorsement for Goku in Smash.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
It'd need to be a significant overhaul of pretty much everything for it not to be disappointing

Like, a new unified art style or entirely different gameplay

What I think would be neat is leaning into the whole "they're toys" angle. Make Yoshi and Kirby plushies, Link and Samus action figures, etc. Basically the Yoshi's Crafted World aesthetic but even more-so. And also make Chibi Robo playable.

If they do reboot, they have to keep Ultimate around via backwards compatibility/virtual console, too. Imagine the anger if that didn't happen.
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,111
Y know what thinking about it I think they will just keep escalating. More than anything else Smash's main appeal is it's ridiculous escalation.

Considering Sakurai's words on wanting Ultimate to last for 10 years or whatever I think he'll realize that people won't want to pare back the roster and they already managed a ridiculous roster before so why not do it again? I could see the next Smash gimmick being about having 100 characters instead of bringing everything down.

I dunno it would be weird for the franchise known for excessivness and escalation to suddenly decide to be more modest.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,387
Houston, TX
Y know what thinking about it I think they will just keep escalating. More than anything else Smash's main appeal is it's ridiculous escalation.

Considering Sakurai's words on wanting Ultimate to last for 10 years or whatever I think he'll realize that people won't want to pare back the roster and they already managed a ridiculous roster before so why not do it again? I could see the next Smash gimmick being about having 100 characters instead of bringing everything down.

I dunno it would be weird for the franchise known for excessivness and escalation to suddenly decide to be more modest.
I personally saw that quote as Ultimate standing tall as a game for 10 years, not so much the game being supported for 10 years.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,440
To make it fair and balanced Sakurai will just cut every character in the series...

except Kirby... never Kirby
 

cmChimera

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,450
I'd be ok with a reduction in characters, a reworking of movesets for veterans and eventually adding more characters with reworked movesets (and of course all new characters). The ideas of ending the franchise, or turning it into Powerstone are mind-boggling to me.

Like yeah, and the next Halo should be a Kart Racer /s
 

carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
Smash Ultimate's visuals are already pretty mind bogglingly great.

I can't even fucking fathom how good the next one will look assuming we get PS4 to PS4 Pro level tech (not talking about the rumored 2019 Switch, but the true Switch successor).

I think it'll end up looking pretty damn close to this game's renders. The leap from 4 to U is pretty incredible, and the Switch is only so much stronger than the Wii U. And Smash 4 already looked great.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,123
Doesn't that happen with most fighting games?
Not really. SFV sold worse than 4 and save for the asset flip MKs tend to chose slightly reduced roster + major change in mechanics or massive roster, same mechanics. Can't say for Tekken off the top of my head.

Plus those games tend to have rosters featuring a significant number of new characters and not just 90% refined old characters. I doubt Smash could really get away with that.
 

Niosai

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,925
Personally, I'd rather they use Ultimate as a base for future content. Rather than make a new game every so many years, just release big expansions with more content. Not even necessarily just characters. I'd pay 20 bucks for a mini adventure in the vein of WoL with a few new stages. Maybe feature one new character at the heart of the story if they wanted to. Not necessarily a GaaS deal, but more in the vein of old-fashioned expansion packs.
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,111
I personally saw that quote as Ultimate standing tall as a game for 10 years, not so much the game being supported for 10 years.
No that's what I meant. He wants the game to last for a long time but who knows if he'll have the same feelings of the next game not retaining the same roster by that time.

Of course now the idea of bringing everyone back for next time sounds impossible but who knows what 6-10 years can do for a person and if it may motivate them to build off of it further in the future