No, not for me at least. I play games to experiment and have fun with the mechanics, competition and mastery. A good story and/or sense of immersion is also important, but secondary to the gameplay.
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Does gaming just feel like more work to anyone else?
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You wanna talk about game design? Let's talk about game design.
Any "fetch quest" in a game is a means to an end, not an end unto itself. The game will have systems that comprise the "gameplay loop" and is only getting you to go to a certain area because it is generally going to throw some things in your way on the way there that utilize the game mechanics and are, supposed to be, fun.
If you are bored of games that do this, it's generally because the smoke (story/thematic elements) and mirrors (graphics) is no longer working for you anymore and you are coming to terms with the shit gameplay.
Picking up 10 pelts and giving it to a shopkeeper isn't about picking up a package and dropping it off somewhere, it's likely about making you engage with the aiming and shooting mechanics in such a way that is challenging in its interactivity and interesting in its variance of the obstacles. If the game is designed properly, this will incentivize you to engage with the systems at hand and attempt mastery. This should be interesting. If it's not, it's because the systems are too shallow, the challenge level is too low (or high) or they aren't causal (input x means output y - aka - something you can actually get good at and the game isn't playing itself).
The problem with "fetch quests" is that if you haven't already bought into the smoke and mirrors and the gameplay doesn't hold up, it feels like busywork.
But in reality, every game is a series of "fetch quests".
Theoretically, you could frame a Super Mario Bros level as a fetch quest to get to a flagpole. But only a moron would do that because the gameplay isn't getting to a flagpole, it's all the gameplay between where you start and where you end. If it was just holding to the right while fireworks went off and then at the end you pressed A to jump on the flagpole and the game said MISSION SUCCESS, Mario would have shit gameplay. But it doesn't.
On the other hand, many many many modern games fill out mission design by making you go somewhere, press A (talk to an NPC/pick up an item/punch person X) then go somewhere else and press A again (talk to another NPC, initiate a cutscene/drop off an item), then put some actual gameplay in there (firefight, sword fight, whatever) that happens to be tuned so that you can never lose, but you also can't really get good at it either because so much of it is automated or balanced around 'smoothing out' the "experience". So you don't really feel like you're doing anything but going through motions.
Kinda like if Mario had you hold to the right for 2 minutes, then put one jump, that if you timed improperly would auto-boost you over the gap, then 2 minutes of holding to the right, then another jump, two more platforms and 5 enemies all in a row. Then the flagpole.
Another thing to come to terms with....games, like any hobby, are a means to stimulate your brain by putting artificial obstacles in front of it that are capable of being solved- aka - 'work'. I say "artificial" only to separate it from actual obstacles that your brain needs to overcome to survive (food, shelter, driving a car to work, raising kids properly, making sure your friends like you, etc). Saying a game feels like work is because...well, it is. They are generally just packages of problems specifically designed to be overcome, over and over and over. Which isn't too different from playing an instrument or fixing up a car or whatever else that is a "hobby"; a constant flow of little challenges that a person can successively overcome. It's not too different from work, except you don't have the pressure of needing to complete the task.
So you may feel like the games are just work these days because your brain is either understimulated by them (bored of repetitive tasks that offer no challenge or room for growth), or the rest of your life is overstimulated (putting meaningless obstacles in front of you is stupid when you are stretched too thin by the real obstacles in front of you).
Return of the Obra Dinn is excellent, but I could see someone thinking of it as "work." It's a puzzle game where you need to actually think and use deductive reasoning, but the story is great and the music is sublime. There is also Everything which is basically "Existential Crisis: The Game" and really makes you think about the world we live in and how it all interconnects. Roam around as a cow, then a cricket...then a rock...an island, a planet, a Star...galaxy...mitochondria...
I went to buy new pants last week. Couldn't find any in my size. It is frustrating to say the least.
I get like this sometimes and it's usually due to stress, depression, etc, but also the games themselves. I "break" it by playing simpler games, ie pinball and old arcade games (emulation) for a while. A lot of modern games are overwhelming in in scope and choice and sometimes it puts me off rather than pull me in.
Well OP, this is a hard one. Games that shine on the world building side tend to be heavily associated to busywork. I kind of feel the same way as you do these days, and that's why I stopped playing many of these open world AAA games.
Sometimes it is a matter of how you play some games: for instance, musou games can range from relaxing to tense depending on how serious you are about objectives and collecting things.
When I want to stay away from the busywork, my go to game is Splatoon 2. It is just about the gameplay and having fun, as long as you are chill about ranks. Salmon Run in particular is quite relaxing. Other than that, Mario Maker 2 is also another great title to get away from the fetch quests. These games have a kind of very unique community driven "world building".. may sound like a stretch, but that's how I feel about them.
Liking world building and disliking fetch quests are unfortunately at odds with each other--a lot of lore is explained via side quests and the like.
On topic--I haven't messed with the Souls series but from what I've heard they're fun and have a lot of world building/lore hidden in em.
Maybe play an older final fantasy game? a lot of them have felt very vibrant to me, and you don't really have to do non plot things.
If you want a fun game that you cannot replicate in real life play some Katamari
I stay away from most AAA games for this reason, among others. Luckily there are a ton of alternatives, my two favorites this generation are Tetris effect and No man's sky. Both are chill games that allow you to zone out and just relax (altough, NMS can be grindy as hell depending on what approach you take to the game).
Try different genres or take a break from gaming. Try racing (Gran Turismo Sport, F1 2019, Wipeout), try fighting games (Street Fighter V, Smash, Tekken). Check out Indy games. There's a lot of variety out there.
I'm with you. Sadly, battle passes are showing up in some of the games I'm enjoying (Warframe, CTR: NF). And they all feature event exclusive items that can be missed once they end, so they suck me into the grind. Sometimes I feel like I'm playing for the sake of checking daily/weekly boxes and not seeking enjoyment.
I think it's really more about doing things you can't do. You say yourself you're sick of doing tedious tasks in games - but if that's true, you're not going to find games you really like just by playing games that have cool-looking settings. In the end, looking at a cool setting you can't see in real life is cool, but it's just a novelty that will wear off before long. Games that are all about cool mechanical interactions are the ones that will really stick in your brain and give you the most satisfaction in the end. Seeking out games like that is the surest way to avoid the lame MMO fetch-quest design you're talking about - the best thing you could do for yourself in this matter is to try to train your gaming tastes to appreciate depth over novelty.
You wrote off DMC5 for having a goofy storyline, but there are very, very few big releases the last few years that get farther away from bland, chore-like gameplay than something like coming to grips with DMC5's fantastic combat system.
If you don't mind indies/2D games there are a lot of fun games. Celeste and Dead Cells offer incredible moment-to-moment gameplay. Iconoclasts is a great adventure game.
for console games, what about RE2 Remake with the old soundtrack?
To me it only does when I'm trying to "hunt trophies" so I just don't.
Also turned of the notifications in Steam recently. It's wonderful.
"Achievements" were a huge mistake imho.
Also turned of the notifications in Steam recently. It's wonderful.
"Achievements" were a huge mistake imho.
Explore some indie titles, experiment with genres. From your first post it seems like you focus mostly on AAA games - and those tend to be style over substance. Indies tend to focus on doing less things, but doing them right and they are not afraid to innovate.
Also, you seem to be most disappointed with repetetivity and menial busywork that modern games (especially open world RPG's and action games) tend to throw at people, but at the same time you point towards RPGs as your favorite games.
So try something that is more story focused and less open world? Like the Paradox rpg's, but play them not like modern action games, but instead try to actually read everything and get into all that text dump those games throw at you. Personally I couldn't stomach Pillars of Eternity, but Tyranny is one of my favorite games currently and I love the Black Company vibe it has (i really enjoyed the books). Or - if those are too slow (and they are absolutely slime paced) - something that is more action focused but with a story, like RE2, Prey 2 or God of War 2018 (just ignore the sidequests if you hate "chorequests")? Or maybe even some wakling simulators for a chilling experience?
This. Very much so this. Great post!
Witcher 3 is loaded with fetch sidequests, but they throw enough story and fluff at you to not feel like you're "collecting 10 rat tails", even if that's essentially the same mechanic. Fetch quests are not the problem themvelves, their execution is. But still, if you don't like destractions like that, you should basicaly focus on more streamlined games.
Also, you seem to be most disappointed with repetetivity and menial busywork that modern games (especially open world RPG's and action games) tend to throw at people, but at the same time you point towards RPGs as your favorite games.
So try something that is more story focused and less open world? Like the Paradox rpg's, but play them not like modern action games, but instead try to actually read everything and get into all that text dump those games throw at you. Personally I couldn't stomach Pillars of Eternity, but Tyranny is one of my favorite games currently and I love the Black Company vibe it has (i really enjoyed the books). Or - if those are too slow (and they are absolutely slime paced) - something that is more action focused but with a story, like RE2, Prey 2 or God of War 2018 (just ignore the sidequests if you hate "chorequests")? Or maybe even some wakling simulators for a chilling experience?
This. Very much so this. Great post!
Witcher 3 is loaded with fetch sidequests, but they throw enough story and fluff at you to not feel like you're "collecting 10 rat tails", even if that's essentially the same mechanic. Fetch quests are not the problem themvelves, their execution is. But still, if you don't like destractions like that, you should basicaly focus on more streamlined games.
There has literally never been a time in gaming since the mid 80's where there's more games, more genres, at lower prices with the addition of free alternatives.
If you can't find a few games that interest you per month then I'd say give gaming a break for a while and if you still feel the same then maybe think about finding a more fulfilling pastime.
Hope it works out.
If you can't find a few games that interest you per month then I'd say give gaming a break for a while and if you still feel the same then maybe think about finding a more fulfilling pastime.
Hope it works out.
Ueda's games are great....the Ico/Shadow of the Colossus/The Last Guardian trilogy is one of the best in gaming,no fetch quests there,lol.
Arkane's games are also amazing....Dishonored/Prey are great games with lots of choice of how to play and no shitty busywork.
Arkane's games are also amazing....Dishonored/Prey are great games with lots of choice of how to play and no shitty busywork.
Yup, it's such an artificial and obvious way to pad games. It can work of course, but there's so many games that really don't benefit from all this extra busywork.
One of the reasons I love the souls games and Sekiro is the thrill of the minute-to-minute melee combat. Sure enough, usually you have some thing to go get in those games, but they feel largely incidental. If you're bored with fetch quests, I'd try playing games that put up more of a challenge in the sections between starting and ending an errand.
Honestly when I get like this I tend to play an old fav from my childhood. RE4, FF8, Halo 3 etc just to reset a bit. 9/10 what starts a song a palette cleanse turns into a full meal..
You've said you enjoyed DOOM but didn't like the fast pace. Maybe try Wolfenstein? I have finished The New Collosus a few days ago through Gamepass and had a really good time with it. Mostly linear with an interesting level design and cool setting.
Playing DOOM right now and they both make me remember how much I missed FPS with great single player experiences.
Playing DOOM right now and they both make me remember how much I missed FPS with great single player experiences.
Try indie games. They tend to value your time more.
I'm sure people will fall over themselves compiling lovingly curated lists of amazing games just for you, with that attitude.
I'm sure people will fall over themselves compiling lovingly curated lists of amazing games just for you, with that attitude.
Only with the games that have the typical Ubisoft/Rockstar open-world blueprint (which I tend to avoid like the plague with a few exceptions).
No, not exactly, although I guess if you want to be as reductive as possible, then yes, every game boils down to "here's an objective, go do it". There's a pretty huge difference between an addictive (of course this varies wildly per person) gameplay loop, and something off of a damn checklist that isn't so much gameplay as it is a FedEx simulation though.
IMO, most open-world games suck because they are built on this catch 22 system where "bigger is better", but if they weren't populated with this "shit do do" checklist, there's no purpose behind the world being as big as it is in the first place. It wouldn't be so bad if these worlds were populated with a huge variety of things to do in them, but they usually aren't. They usually boil down to being the same 4-8 activities with different skins ad nauseam.
Can't wait to see FROM's take on the open-world genre with Elden Ring.
Yes, a thousand times. It's "open-world" sort of, but it plays more like a 3D modern take on the classic Capcom D&D arcade games. The class customization alone even makes replaying the same stuff you've already done multiple times before actually feel somewhat fresh too.
No, not exactly, although I guess if you want to be as reductive as possible, then yes, every game boils down to "here's an objective, go do it". There's a pretty huge difference between an addictive (of course this varies wildly per person) gameplay loop, and something off of a damn checklist that isn't so much gameplay as it is a FedEx simulation though.
IMO, most open-world games suck because they are built on this catch 22 system where "bigger is better", but if they weren't populated with this "shit do do" checklist, there's no purpose behind the world being as big as it is in the first place. It wouldn't be so bad if these worlds were populated with a huge variety of things to do in them, but they usually aren't. They usually boil down to being the same 4-8 activities with different skins ad nauseam.
Can't wait to see FROM's take on the open-world genre with Elden Ring.
Yes, a thousand times. It's "open-world" sort of, but it plays more like a 3D modern take on the classic Capcom D&D arcade games. The class customization alone even makes replaying the same stuff you've already done multiple times before actually feel somewhat fresh too.
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Outer Wilds is a compelling game. No fetch quests really, a small solar system to go explore, a compelling mystery to unravel and a charming array of inhabitants to meet.
It's the joy and wonder of exploration distilled in to an excellent gaming experience.
It should give you plenty of reason to go and do things.
EDIT - This is an excellent post
It's the joy and wonder of exploration distilled in to an excellent gaming experience.
It should give you plenty of reason to go and do things.
EDIT - This is an excellent post
Feel you OP.
This is why I'm playing skill based games at the moment. Trying to get good at Street Fighter 5 for once in my life has been pretty fun learning the mechanics and such. Also try a sports game or racing. These help break up the busy work fatigue of AAA games.
This is why I'm playing skill based games at the moment. Trying to get good at Street Fighter 5 for once in my life has been pretty fun learning the mechanics and such. Also try a sports game or racing. These help break up the busy work fatigue of AAA games.
As you get older, your gaming tastes change. The old "cinematic third person adventure" can get tiring.
I mostly stick with very mechanically satisfying games with pick up and play appeal. Tight matches or gameplay loops that don't have too many cutscenes.
Racing games, MP shooters, etc.
I mostly stick with very mechanically satisfying games with pick up and play appeal. Tight matches or gameplay loops that don't have too many cutscenes.
Racing games, MP shooters, etc.
This is in my top 10 of all time easily, but no way could I recommend this to someone who is tired of busy work in games. There's so much backtracking and doing sidequests etc., that it'd only really be worth it if OP could start from a post game save and dive straight into BBI.
I get you OP. I want games that take me somewhere else and are a break from reality, not just busywork for the sake of checking off bullet points on a list. That kind of gaming (which feels like about 95% of games) isn't really for me. At least RDR2 has a captivating world that is beautiful to traverse in between, but many games worlds aren't so inviting. There still has to be exciting gameplay attached, that's well designed, and that is the holy grail, another area I would say many games do a surprisingly bad job at, with people happy enough with the busywork or story that they can overlook the gameplay (coughwitcher3cough). For myself my favourite games are TLOU, Journey and Inside. TLOU and Inside had amazing gameplay that worked with the story and world and atmosphere, that all elevated the whole experience. Journey was gameplay lite, but had such a unique world and story it wanted to tell and viscerally got across a concept like "struggle" amazingly well (for instance the fighting against the wind, slowing down of your character eventually leading to the climax). These games are not just do this, go here. Of course they are those things, but those things have a purpose and actually communicate concepts with the audience through world building, they actually try to achieve some sort of artistic purpose.
Of course not every game should be trying to be a work of art and most gamers, the vast majority are very happy with games for their gameplay, with having work to do even if the only end is to unlock achievements and to say you've completed it. Not every game has to be a work of art, but I desperately love the ones that actually try, and the ones that pull it off are inevitably my most loved of games. I'm not that fussed about a challenge for a challenge's sake, or playing a game like I'm ticking off a thousand things from a list, but that's just me.
Ultimately nobody is wrong, we all have our own opinions and we should all accept that "gamers" are not a homogenous group all with the same tastes, and that's ok.
If you want something new and fresh, I'd recommend The Outer Wilds to you. It emphasizes the sense of discovery and exploration. If you want a game with perfect pacing and neat gameplay that is not bloated, go for The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds on 3DS. If you are more into zen and having a relaxing time, maybe Stardew Valley could be interesting.
Another idea: Play something creative like Planet Coaster, Cities Skylines, Railway Empire or some strategy titles like Civ VI, Stellaris, Endless Space 2 or even just Wargroove, and puzzle games/interactive sims like Baba is You, The Talos Principle and The Witness. You gotta change it up every once and then, and these games stimulate the brain in totally different ways from your usual AAA landscape. Also you can jump in and out at any time, but these titles are addictive and you will go back to them, trust me.
Another idea: Play something creative like Planet Coaster, Cities Skylines, Railway Empire or some strategy titles like Civ VI, Stellaris, Endless Space 2 or even just Wargroove, and puzzle games/interactive sims like Baba is You, The Talos Principle and The Witness. You gotta change it up every once and then, and these games stimulate the brain in totally different ways from your usual AAA landscape. Also you can jump in and out at any time, but these titles are addictive and you will go back to them, trust me.
