Does "barely legal" pornography normalize pedophilia/reinforce misogyny?

[RedMercury]

With the recent talk surrounding Borderlands 3 and Randy Pitchford, this is a topic I wanted to bring up. Here is a relevant article written by a porn actress: https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-barely-legal-porn-is-so-dangerous

Men often try to excuse their desire for barely-consenting-age women under the guise of human nature—namely, our innate instinct to reproduce. The issue with that argument is that a woman's childbearing ability doesn't peak until between the ages of 22-26, so the reproduction case doesn't really stand when it comes to lusting after teens. Another theory for why men desire too-young girls is the anxiety of aging. An older man may feel uncomfortable or inadequate with themselves—specifically their sexual performance—and are able to feel superior in situations with someone with less life experience (teenagers are significantly more impressionable than even twentysomethings). This desire to have authority and control over molding another human being that you're having sex with is toxic, to say the least.

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I believe it's a combination of predatory behavior encouraged by social conditioning: men are often demonized and ostracized for deviating from acceptable gender norms and discouraged from seeking help or expressing feelings. Society and media have an obsession with simultaneously sexualizing and infantilizing women. This infantilization of women is seen in every available medium, and as women age, the representation of people they can relate to in media diminishes extensively. Advertisements sell us on anti-aging material and youthfulness is not just praised—it is mandatory. So it's not terribly surprising to see this practice in pornography as well.

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There is much more to read at the link, please check it out.



Here is a relevant Twitter thread with a lot of good responses.

Now look, I gotta lay some ground rules on this discussion, because us men can tend to get really defensive when this sort of thing is talked about. As it stands now, that kind of stuff is legal, so please don't throw accusations at other people. Nobody is saying you're a pedophile, I get this is something that has been normalized for decades in porn. We're all adults, and we can have a civil discussion on the potential ramifications of this without making it personal.

So what say you, Era? For me, I make no apologies for thinking it's creepy and insidious. I know that it's likely the majority of actors who make this content are likely in their 20's, and it represents a popular genre, and business-wise it makes sense for them to do it. At the same time, a person deliberately searching for young-as-possible porn I find disturbing.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

Yes it's fucking creepy

 

[rude]

Obviously

 

[Alwayscrazybacon]

Barely legal is a porn marketing phrase. There's a hard legal line, and the other side of it is legal.

 

[thesoapster]

Maybe? Some, not all?
I think for some, part of the allure is the idea that society creates a hard line where sex is not OK, and the whole "barely legal" thing seems kinda naughty? I dunno. Girls in pink bedrooms with stuffed animals aren't my thing.

 

[AlexMeloche]

Considering « barely legal » is also really popular in gay porn, I'll guess that men are simply creepy in general? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Biggersmaller]

The most common misogynistic and rapey porn has always been of the casting couch variety. Where the premise is a girl auditioning for a model gig is talked into sex and some really creepy voice over keeps reassuring her the footage wont be made public.

"Barely Legal" is a clickbait descriptor broadly used for any scenario featuring a skinny white (usually blonde) woman age 18-25. It is not misogynistic in itself as being attracted to someone in that age range is a perfectly normal and well adjusted sexual tendancy.

 

[SliceSabre]

Considering « barely legal » is also really popular in gay porn, I'll guess that men are simply creepy in general? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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This assumes women aren't interested in barely legal gay/straight porn.

 

[kiguel182]

Seriously, stop calling this stuff pedophilia. You can make a point agains the sexualitation of teenagers and all of that without mislabeling it.

Pedophelia is people people attracted to children. It's a whole different thing and making seem like barely legal porn has anything to do with it it's bad.

 

[Turin Turambar]

This isn't even specific to porn. It is because the standard of female beauty/hotness of our entire society is closer to a 20 years old girl than a 35 years old woman.

Why is that? Not sure. I will let you have that discussion.

 

[Deleted member 8001]

tbh you can also use this reasoning with "daddy" and "mamma" as well.

 

[Grouch Douglass]

I could see younger people being into it and it being acceptable. MILFs didn't really become a thing to me until after 25 yrs old.

 

[Nightbird]

I always wondered why to some people 17 is like "peak" pedophilia and 18 is suddenly a-ok. It's both creepy in my book.

It just doesn't make sense. At worst there's a day difference between morally questionable and illegal.


To me it would make more sense to push the age limit up to twenty. It sounds much more reasonable to say "they have been adult for a while now, their judgment is a little bit better" than "you've been adult for a minute now, go wild!"

But I guess it's too late now to make such changes

 

[PJV3]

I think a lot of porn it's mostly pointless, the people involved are legal and probably not barely either.

 

[jay]

Pornography reinforces misogyny but that's a somewhat different discussion.

 

[acheron_xl]

Honestly, half the time it feels like it's just there to differentiate from porn that has obvious 30-year-olds posing as schoolgirls or cheerleaders.

 

[RedMercury]

Seriously, stop calling this stuff pedophilia. You can make a point agains the sexualitation of teenagers and all of that without mislabeling it.

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I don't think we need to go down the "Actually it's ephebophilia" route.

 

[kiguel182]

Age of consent laws exist to prevent older man/women to take advantage of teens who mentally might to be ready to have sex and are more easily exploited.

Pedophia is adults being attracted to like 5 year olds.

Stop putting both things in the same level.

 

[Copper]

Aren't milf and fake incest porn the two biggest categories though?

Also almost all porn normalize misoginy, sadly.

 

[kiguel182]

I don't think we need to go down the "Actually it's ephebophilia" route.

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Until people start knowing the difference we need.

This just dimisinhes what pediphilia is and how that should be handled vs age of consent.

It's two totally different discussions and making it the same is not good.

Edit: you can't have a "why is barely legal porn a thing" conversation when you are saying it's the same a sexual deviation as serious as pedophilia. You are starting that conversation with a wrong premise.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

Until people start knowing the difference we need.

This just dimisinhes what pediphilia is and how that should be handled vs age of consent.

It's two totally different discussions and making it the same is not good.

Edit: you can't have a "why is barely legal porn a thing" conversation when you are saying it's the same a sexual deviation as serious as pedophilia. You are starting that conversation with a wrong premise.

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Nah.

 

[Arkeband]

"Your vote will be publicly visible"

Spoiler

(It's weird)

 

[Coyote Starrk]

I do my best to not judge other people's sexual preferences or kinks. As long as its legal and all parties involved are consenting adults I try not to really care. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home or elsewhere is their business not mine as far as I am concerned.


Don't get me wrong though I may think its strange in private, but its not something I am willing to hold against someone as long as it fits into what I said above. I don't think its my place to judge someone based on who or what they are attracted to so long as its all legit and legal. I have my own kinks that I wouldn't want others to judge me on so I do my best to return that same courtesy. Now if its not legal or its borderline (like "barely legal" yeah that is weird to me) then yeah my view will change based on what exactly is in question, but I am just talking in general here.


I know that probably won't be a popular opinion, but thats how I approach issues like these.

 

[Psykodoughboy]

What about actors that play high schoolers?

 

[SliceSabre]

What about actors that play high schoolers?

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This actually brings up a good point.

I was watching that Netflix show Sex Ed and where you have adults playing teenagers and it very clearly has them banging the hell out of each other. Hell you even see dick at one point and I'm like "Wait how is this ok? We're supposed to be seeing them as high school age teenagers and not adult teenagers."

 

[Trickster]

Everything we watch and experience influence us. This goes for ads, movies, music, games, and obviously porn as well.

That said, I doubt "barely legal" porn is resulting in the normalization of pedophilia anymore than violent movies with people killing each other normalizes actual murder.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

if anything wouldn't barely legal porn reinforce the age of consent? i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say if you're attracted to an 18 year old you were probably attracted to them at 17+11 months. so while the "wait" is creepy...it's the opposite of pedophilia.

 

[IIFloodyII]

It's definitely a bit creepy, especially when they cosplay as school girls and shit like that.
It's 100% not enough to label someone a pedo though, that's a really serious allegation, that can and has literally got people murdered.

 

[mxbison]

18 year old in "cheerleaders gone wild" or whatever = not creepy

18 year old with pigtails, braces, and colored socks in a girls bedroom with stuffed animals = super fucking creepy

 

[hipsterbodega]

I think a lot of people, generally speaking, are more physically attracted to youth than to age and I think this is more complicated than "DO DUDES JUST WANNA FUCK LITTLE GIRLS????" Personally, I think the "barely legal" category is pure marketing and, yeah, a little weird and maybe a little gross. I don't pursue it. But I also don't want to look at olds when I am pursuing porn either, and that's probably not uncommon.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

This actually brings up a good point.

I was watching that Netflix show Sex Ed and where you have adults playing teenagers and it very clearly has them banging the hell out of each other. Hell you even see dick at one point and I'm like "Wait how is this ok? We're supposed to be seeing them as high school age teenagers and not adult teenagers."

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I think it kinda depends on the purpose of the nudity/sexuality. In that show, it felt more about showing the complexities and foibles of being young and figuring out sex. If it felt more exploitative, that'd be different. Otherwise, you would never be able to tell the stories of people underage dealing with all these things, which they very much do.

 

[Subpar Scrub]

Considering « barely legal » is also really popular in gay porn, I'll guess that men are simply creepy in general? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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>Implying that most nights I'm not wading through a pack of cougars at the clubs at least once

To me it would make more sense to push the age limit up to twenty.

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I kinda disagree with this. If you can die for your country in a war, you can have a beer or do whatever you want with your body. You're an adult, or at least you should be if your country sees you as a potentially expendable military asset.

 

[CrazyAndy]

I do my best to not judge other people's sexual preferences or kinks. As long as its legal and all parties involved are consenting adults I try not to really care. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home or elsewhere is their business not mine as far as I am concerned.


Don't get me wrong though I may think its strange in private, but its not something I am willing to hold against someone as long as it fits into what I said above. I don't think its my place to judge someone based on who or what they are attracted to so long as its all legit and legal. I have my own kinks that I wouldn't want others to judge me on so I do my best to return that same courtesy. Now if its not legal or its borderline then yeah my view will change based on what exactly is in question, but I am just talking in general here.


I know that probably won't be a popular opinion, but thats how I approach issues like these.

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Sounds reasonable and I would agree.

 

[kiguel182]

Nah.

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I mean, you are normalizing pedophilia by saying it's the same as being attracted by barely legal porn but whatever.

If you think a man having sex with a 5 year old is the same as having sex with a 17 year old and want to talk the subject like that then you do you.

The names/labels we use to describe things are important.

You won't get an honest discussion about age of consent you don't even get the concept or mis-represent it like this.

 

[WrenchNinja]

It's creepy as fuck.

 

[Deleted member 23212]

16 is the age of consent in Canada which makes the question even more difficult to me to answer. I'm 20, but 16 year olds seem to young to me. I'm more interested in mid 20s to early 30s women personally, but considering my immaturity I'm not really going to be having anyone interested in me XD.

 

[Awesome Kev]

porn is pretty terrible for the most part. it can be done tastefully but most of the stuff you see on tube sites never is. the whole tube site porn culture is just bizarre to me... on some there is an 18 year old section and then a 19 year old section... as if there is some defining difference between the two, like one is somehow better or wildly different than the other that it deserves its own genre... and it obviously gets way weirder and out right grossly creepy beyond that.

in the end, however, the way one person gets there kicks is not for me to judge, and as long as both are consenting adults not being used or abused by something or someone then that's their choice and, as always, their is nothing wrong with sex in that context. so, as weird and extremely fucking creepy as the barely legal thing is, the fact is the line has to be drawn somewhere, and that line is 18 in most places (which, *sigh* may include some high schoolers... ugh), weird, yeah i know, but not illegal and if both are consenting and happy about it then there is nothing wrong with it.

i dunno, maybe a different perspective will shift the way i see it, but that's where i am now

 

[Terminus]

Legal or not, if you're attracted to someone substantially less mature than yourself, I'm going to think less of you. I've never once met a grown man dating a teenager and thought "this is a well-adjusted individual possessing qualities worth emulating."

 

[healbite-maritima]

Seriously, stop calling this stuff pedophilia. You can make a point agains the sexualitation of teenagers and all of that without mislabeling it.

Pedophelia is people people attracted to children. It's a whole different thing and making seem like barely legal porn has anything to do with it it's bad.

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I don't think anyone is qualifying this as actual "pedophilia", just people find it an eyebrow raiser when certain folks are interested in barely legal, because it tends to convey "I'd like them younger but I don't wanna give them reasons to put me in prison, so I'll take what I can get"

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Barely legal is a porn marketing phrase. There's a hard legal line, and the other side of it is legal.

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It also implies that you're purposely looking at "as close to illegal as possible" material.

 

[Falcon511]

I worked at a retail store over a decade ago and worked with a few 18 and 19 year olds. I remember at least 2 told me they had a FWB with a guy who was at least 30. Is it creepy? Idk maybe? Would I call them pedophiles? No that's a bit far. It's also legal by law so yeah.

The whole porn category with girls who act with pig tails and braces with dolls is a bit weird.

 

[bangai-o]

Isnt Milf the more popular category?

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

The context it connotes is unsettling to me, especially when they play up a supposed underage theme

 

[Huncho_Houdini]

Yeah always found it a bit weird. I'm in my mid 20s and anyone younger than 21 seems way too young to me to even consider being romantic with. So older men going after the teen category is bizarre. Though in terms of legality, 18 is adult so who am I to speak towards that.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Barely legal as a search term in the porn industry means 18+, as it's illegal to film 16~17.

The age of consent in most of Europe is 16.

So in terms of porn, 18 is at least 2 years older than the age of consent. It's also when you are the legal age for most adult decisions in Europe. 16 gives some, but 18 rounds off adulthood in the eyes of the law.

Not that I don't find some kinks creepy and/or probably in need of speaking to a counsellor, but you cannot call 18 paedophilia or try to suggest it is. The industry legally knows if someone is 18, that's different than the other hot topic of our times which is games/media portraying really young characters and just saying they are 18.

As much as you might find school roleplay creepy with adults, and as much as you might want to imply, it's not the same as tv shows/games/pieces of media depicting actual school kids.

Some people simply get a high out of that kind of roleplay as the further they get away from their late teenage years and lots of sex at college/Uni, the more they miss that excitement when in their late 20's/early 30's. Adult life takes over, many people settle down and your "wilder younger years" become a memory. Lots of adults have boring or tired sex lives, and try to spice things up to save their marriages or relive their youth.

Hence why you get milf porn with school uniforms...

 

[kiguel182]

I don't think anyone is qualifying this as actual "pedophilia", just people find it an eyebrow raiser when certain folks are interested in barely legal, because it tends to convey "I'd like them younger but I don't wanna give them reasons to put me in prison, so I'll take what I can get"

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So don't use that term? The title says "normalising pedophilia". Pedophilia is having sex with 4 year olds. Aren't you normalising that when you are comparing it to having sex with 17 year olds?

I think that discussion is interesting to have (personally I think it's all about power dynamics) but people keep using that term and it's not only wrong but it also harmful.

Age of consent is something that differs from place to place and the more complete laws regarding the issue take into consideration more than age differences but also power dynamics for example. Because it's a complex issue and it should be treated as such.

Someone calling for 20 year age of consent in this thread just shows a lack of understanding of the concept. And thread titles that frame things like this don't help anything.

 

[Code Artisan]

The author doesn't provide anything to sustain her claims. Puritanism.

 

[kiguel182]

The "old man want to relive the past" is an interesting point. I image for older folk the image of stuff like school settings brings back some of the old fantasies or memories. Never thought of that.

 

[mutantmagnet]

I don't think barely legal porn is automatically creepy. From what little I have come across if it's an actress dressing up in clothing that is child like it still comes across absurd like a man dressed up as a baby so I don't get creeped out. When it comes to women who actually really do have physical features that would make you think they are underage that I generally find to be creepy.

The thing that really grosses me out aren't even the actresses taking on these roles specifically. Why do I have to browse porn and see terms under videos like "son gets *** by mom" or "dad *** daughter"


Even when the image has an actual sex performer I really like, the scenario built up by these captions are so disturbing I just move on. There definitely is a mentality of having sex with someone and when you are young that is appealing to certain people. I don't know if they are stuck on the past, or regret their life choices, or like to flirt with the legal boundaries or they wish the government allowed sex with minors who just got passed puberty but it's a problem they have these desires.

While it is problematic I think barely legal porn should continue to exist. Something like barely legal porn doesn't lead to misogyny. The whole premise behind it doesn't allow for any significant interpretation to hate on women. Barely legal otoh has the potential to be a gateway for pedophilia but I'm having a hard time seeing the potential being actualized because barely legal performers take on the role of teenagers which is developmentally way different from children in too many ways to ignore. A pedophile isn't going to look for barely legal porn as their form o escapism. That's what legal child porn is for and that I think is an actual gateway that encourages pedophiles to act out their fantasies for real. Legal child porn I unconditionally find to be creepy.


While various forms of porn do help promote some bad ideas I think the only way to adequately address it is if we had a society were it was ok to talk about our attractions and work through it. Because of the drama that can be caused by it we need more people in the field of therapy and peer counseling.

 

[Jakke_Koala]

Yes