That was a superb episode. Atmospheric, well-paced, ingenious and a great historical portrayal of the people involved. Highlight of the series, to my mind.
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Doctor Who Series 12 |OT| Spyfall Is Where We Start
- Thread starter Paradox
- Start date
Tbh I feel like Jack returning and warning the 'fam' about the lone Cyberman and how the Doctor shouldn't give it what it wants kinda took away the tension because you just knew she was going to give it away
It would have worked better without Jack making an appearance
Overall the episode was pretty good, quite dark in some parts of the episode as well which shocked me
It would have worked better without Jack making an appearance
Overall the episode was pretty good, quite dark in some parts of the episode as well which shocked me
This one was really damn good. Creepy and all the humour hit. Especially like that the ghosts where totally unrelated and just using the opportunity to get their spook on lol At first i was thinking maybe they were related to the skeleton Byron had, like his wife and daughter haunting him for taking the bones, but nope. The hole episode went in a completely different direction. Ryan's comment seemed a bit out of character but eh, enjoyed see the Doctor's huge ego there.
This was the first ep I've enjoyed from beginning to end in chibbers run as showrunner. Doc did change history between Lord Byron and Claire Clairmont lol
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That was phenomenal. Genuinely creepy and great characterisation and use of Shelley and company. Scariest the Cybermen have been in a long while too with that broken-down design and ruthless killings (seriously, snapping necks? In Doctor Who?!).
And also some absolute props to Chibnall and the whole team for keeping so much under wraps this series. That's two episodes initially presented as filler that have turned into mindblowing, lore-bending adventures. Not to mention the surprise return of the Master too. We've come a long way from the BBC outright spoiling John Simm's Master returning in the series finale in the "coming soon" trailer at the very start of series 10. Massive improvement. Doctor Who is fast becoming proper event telly again.
And also some absolute props to Chibnall and the whole team for keeping so much under wraps this series. That's two episodes initially presented as filler that have turned into mindblowing, lore-bending adventures. Not to mention the surprise return of the Master too. We've come a long way from the BBC outright spoiling John Simm's Master returning in the series finale in the "coming soon" trailer at the very start of series 10. Massive improvement. Doctor Who is fast becoming proper event telly again.
Definitely one of the better episodes this series for me. I liked the perception filterish house idea and it was pretty creepy. Enjoyed seeing the Doctor getting frustrated and angry, shitting on the 'flat team structure', plus the bit about not wanting to lose anyone else to the Cybermen (poor Bill). The Cyberman itself was pretty gruesome too, when it snapped that woman's neck - eww.
Chibnall not given a writing credit on this one?
Chibnall not given a writing credit on this one?
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There were so many things to love about this episode. The stuff with Clairmont and Byron that I mentioned earlier, which was subtle rather than hitting you over the head with it as other eps in the series have recently, everyone intstantly understanding that THIS is what Jack's warning was about, the central conceit of the AI and Shelley protecting themselves, the Cyberman trying to break in, the great dialogue...prob my fave ep in a very long time.
That was a good episode. That first half could have been better where the focus felt a bit too scattered between the different characters but the side characters felt important for once and the companions got some stuff to do. The Doctors speech in the cellar was pretty good as well. Real curious how these next two episodes go.
It's still an iconic eye-sore, so mixed feelings. I prefer the photoshopped versions.
That was pretty good after a couple of weeks of 'The Chibnall Lectures,' setting up the finale nicely. Atmospheric and nicely acted, directed, etc. The Doctor laying down the law about tream structure was cool. so a pretty, pretty good ep
also I liked Mrs Doctor as a name.
also I liked Mrs Doctor as a name.
As he was the Doctor when I was 11-13, I didn't hate the costume but i grew to dislike it. It made the show look cheaper (though watch any clip from a mid 80s BBC comedy or variety show and they all look garish as well, except they weren't supposed to be dramas).It's still an iconic eye-sore, so mixed feelings. I prefer the photoshopped versions.
I think it was a major part of Baker's Doctor never really clicking with the public or the fans at the time, but his persona was something people ignore, aloof, pretentious and theatrical at a time when dramas were moving away from actors on BBC shows speaking strictly with RP accents. He's a lot less painful to watch in Baker's second season, costume aside when he was a lot more human.
Colin Baker himself comes across as a top bloke.
They also offered a nice nugget of background this time.
youtu.be
Meet Mary Shelley and Lord Byron | The Haunting of Villa Diodati | Doctor Who: Series 12
Team TARDIS have another brush with history! Find out more about the party on Lake Geneva that inspired the original "Frankenstein". Subscribe to Doctor Who ...
youtu.be
Wow I really love this episode. I didn't know that there was a year without summer. Love the history stuff in doctor who episodes.
Yeah the jack cyberman plot should've been dealt with more properly. Would've been better for him to come in after the doctor gave the cyberium away and he comes on in the next episode.
Yeah the jack cyberman plot should've been dealt with more properly. Would've been better for him to come in after the doctor gave the cyberium away and he comes on in the next episode.
That was definetly one of the more entertaining episodes, but only by comparison to the rest of the season so far. A lot of good horror and the cyberam was great but that's it really. Not to downplay it thoigh but it's surface level presentation.
There are many issues with the writing but what stood out to me most in this episode is the unwilingness to follow any plot thread but the episodes central story all the way through.
Like any pre-chibnal season, the Doctor going off about how smarter and morally superior she was than all of them before instantly fucking it up and making an arguably god-awful decision in the long run would have lead to a serious confrontation from or with the companions. Like the three of them looked like they were gonna explode at her when she revealed she didn't have a plan but instead it just jumps ahead to next day and everyone's "Fam" gain.
I have no investment in any of these characters because none of it gets paid off. And replacing them with new characters next season is not gonna solve that. None of these characters have any arcs. Just inferring looks on their faces that maybe they'll get an arc in the finale if we're lucky.
There are many issues with the writing but what stood out to me most in this episode is the unwilingness to follow any plot thread but the episodes central story all the way through.
Like any pre-chibnal season, the Doctor going off about how smarter and morally superior she was than all of them before instantly fucking it up and making an arguably god-awful decision in the long run would have lead to a serious confrontation from or with the companions. Like the three of them looked like they were gonna explode at her when she revealed she didn't have a plan but instead it just jumps ahead to next day and everyone's "Fam" gain.
I have no investment in any of these characters because none of it gets paid off. And replacing them with new characters next season is not gonna solve that. None of these characters have any arcs. Just inferring looks on their faces that maybe they'll get an arc in the finale if we're lucky.
Episode was alright. The setting wasn't utilized nearly as well as it could have been though.
OP
OP
Really solid, enjoyable episode.
I can't quite put my finger on what it was, but this was the first episode where the whole team just felt very settled in their roles. I think the humour helped a lot - the companions actually felt like people rather than exposition bots. And I LOVED that Doctor "It's not a flat team structure" moment because it finally hints that all this time, the 'happy, wacky' 13th Doctor really has been a facade that she's desperately been trying to maintain. Yes, it's very 10th Doctor and, yes, I'm not massively hopeful it'll lead anywhere significant but it was so good to finally have some bite back in the character.
The tone sometimes felt a bit too all over the place, and I get the Cyberman was meant to be a Frankenstein/Terminator stand in but I generally prefer Cybermen to be a bit more lithe and mechanical and less...hulking, but this is the kind of episode I wish we'd been getting more consistently over the last two series.
I can't quite put my finger on what it was, but this was the first episode where the whole team just felt very settled in their roles. I think the humour helped a lot - the companions actually felt like people rather than exposition bots. And I LOVED that Doctor "It's not a flat team structure" moment because it finally hints that all this time, the 'happy, wacky' 13th Doctor really has been a facade that she's desperately been trying to maintain. Yes, it's very 10th Doctor and, yes, I'm not massively hopeful it'll lead anywhere significant but it was so good to finally have some bite back in the character.
The tone sometimes felt a bit too all over the place, and I get the Cyberman was meant to be a Frankenstein/Terminator stand in but I generally prefer Cybermen to be a bit more lithe and mechanical and less...hulking, but this is the kind of episode I wish we'd been getting more consistently over the last two series.
It's still an iconic eye-sore, so mixed feelings. I prefer the photoshopped versions.
Am I right in thinking that somebody actually used some machine learning deepfake style stuff to actually do this to actual clips as a proof of concept of actually replacing the costume? I feel like that was something that happened.
There was a special feature - I forget which set it was on - about what Baker's costume could have been that featured a photoshop of a potential alt version. Are you thinking of that?
I've been rewatching the show from series 1 since the start of December, a bit here and there, on in the background while I work. I'm coming up to the end of the RTD era now, and, well... it's very interesting, it's very curious, jumping back and forth between the current iteration of the show and this. The thing is, they're not as different as memory might have you think, but that also helps to really crystalize and define what isn't working currently... and what is.
Also, another thing that's surprising to me is that I think the RTD era with Tennant is actually very similar to the Capaldi era. It was like Moffat's era began as a continuation with the same style and format in S5, then over the Smith era trended away from that, then reversed and looped back. Capaldi's final series - at least to my memory - feels a lot like the late RTD stuff. Curious. Wonder if I'll still feel that way when I get back to watching that stuff.
Also, another thing that's surprising to me is that I think the RTD era with Tennant is actually very similar to the Capaldi era. It was like Moffat's era began as a continuation with the same style and format in S5, then over the Smith era trended away from that, then reversed and looped back. Capaldi's final series - at least to my memory - feels a lot like the late RTD stuff. Curious. Wonder if I'll still feel that way when I get back to watching that stuff.
Speaking of Capaldi, the ratings for Chibnall and Whittaker are now firmly in the Capaldi Zone with Can You Hear Hear Me? getting final ratings of 4.9 million, the third worst ever, beaten only by a couple of Series 10 episodes.
This week got overnights of 3.86m, a small increase of 0.05m. I would imagine the AI would also be slightly higher unless the audience are being capricious again.
This week got overnights of 3.86m, a small increase of 0.05m. I would imagine the AI would also be slightly higher unless the audience are being capricious again.
No. The Master and the Doctor grew up together. They both hated the policy of non-interference, but for different reasons.
I've seen Chinball say that Ruth isn't an alternative universe Doctor, but between seeing her and seeing a new Master, I'm wondering if he's either lying, or if he'll get around it by saying that 13 and company have somehow crossed into an alternate universe. Especially with the destruction of Gallifrey.
Classic TARDIS look is the best TARDIS look. The one part of new Who that I've never gotten used to.
I do love 13's opening theme though. That intro remix is one of the better ones that the show has done. I wish there was a longer version of it available.
It'll be kind of weird if the Master is involved in this Cybermen plot. We did JUST have a Master + Cybermen plot at the end of 12's tenure, so having that be the end of this season would feel weird and hollow. I hope they don't have him involved at all and we just plain don't see him again until next year.
I still think Ruth is going to handwaved away somehow, though. The leaks just seem too dumb.
Whew! A haunted house episode set in the 19th century and Mary Shelley interacting with a literal Frankenstein monster! What's not to love.
I can't imagine that ignoring Jack's message will end well... but I did enjoy the Doctor telling her fam to mind their place in the hierarchy, so who am I to question her decision lol.
The Doctor sure is inconsistent with her memory wiping though. This seemed like an appropriate time for it.
I can't imagine that ignoring Jack's message will end well... but I did enjoy the Doctor telling her fam to mind their place in the hierarchy, so who am I to question her decision lol.
The Doctor sure is inconsistent with her memory wiping though. This seemed like an appropriate time for it.
Yeah, I'd say the Capaldi era, in general, felt a lot like both a love letter and a conscious response to the RTD era, with some common themes or plot points - the issue of Doctor mind-wiping Donna is acknowledged, the whole Clara X 12 unhealthy relationship felt like another take to the Rose X 10 dynamic, Bill is very much a RTD companion, you have more earth-bound stories and of course, the Simm Master is back for the finale (tiding the Doctor on a wheelchair, as he did in End of Time). Hell, even Twelve's regeneration is - at least superficially - aping Ten's "I don't wanna go".
I wouldn't say that "Twelve is Ten done right" because the most popular modern Doctor certainly wasn't done wrong, but in hindsight, I liked the Moffat-take on RTD's ideas more.
Overnight was 4.86m, up from last week's 4.81m.
Can You Hear Me finished with 4.90 million, down from Praxeus' 5.22 million.
Can You Hear Me finished with 4.90 million, down from Praxeus' 5.22 million.
I'm really liking it :D
About time they moved away from the team fam crap.
I rather liked that episode, even before the nature of the spectre was revealed. Clever use of the monster, fun haunted house atmosphere, and the humor worked well. Only extraneous bit was the hands which still at least delivered a good creep factor.
This was definitely the first Doctor Who setting I'd previously seen on Drunk History though!
This was definitely the first Doctor Who setting I'd previously seen on Drunk History though!
I think they're preparing the audience for one or more companions leaving after this season.
Something I often think about is that Series 5 was written before they knew Tenant was leaving.
I'm not seeing the resemblance between Series 10 and Series 2–4, though. Series 10 feels distinctly Moffat to me.
The Capaldi seasons had a more RTD-like structure in how they teased the central mystery, I think. Also had more overt connections to continuity from those seasons.
Season 10 may be my favorite Moffat season (need to revisit 5 but remember being lukewarm on it at the time) just because the Moffat-isms were way less overbearing that time around and I really enjoyed 12 and Bill's relationship.
Season 10 may be my favorite Moffat season (need to revisit 5 but remember being lukewarm on it at the time) just because the Moffat-isms were way less overbearing that time around and I really enjoyed 12 and Bill's relationship.
Series 10 felt like it was when Moffat finally nailed down exactly who the 12th Doctor was and got him the perfect companion to match. I really liked series 10. Bill & Nardole were fantastic. The prior Capaldi seasons definitely had some great highlights but the Clara relationship just felt unhealthy in a way that was a drag to watch. Felt like we spent 2 seasons dealing with 11's emotional baggage in a dysfunctional relationship that didn't work anymore. Series 10 set 12 free to be his own doctor with a new team that matched him perfectly. I wish it happened sooner, it was a shame that it was Capaldi's final season, but at least he left on a high note.
I totally agree. I love Capaldi in general and thought he was great even in weaker material (kinda like Jodie now) but season 10 was exactly what I'd wanted from the show. I regularly think about "Thin Ice" and his speech about the worth of a culture. I don't mind that Chibs took a clean slate approach as showrunner but I wish he would have brought some returning writers back for it. Beyond the obvious Jamie Mathieson there were a lot of good episodes that got overlooked because the show was seen as getting long-in-the-tooth under Moffat.
Gotta try watching Series 10 again. After thinking his first two series was the best of Doctor Who I was just totally bored with most of S10 and it's the one series I haven't been able to get myself to rewatch after buying the box set. I definitely preferred Capaldi and Clara by a long way.
Doctor Falls might be my favorite ender from Moffat's run, if I can put aside my nostalgia for Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang.
It's a bit overstuffed but the emotional moments hit hard in it. I really appreciate they didn't have him go out saving the whole universe or something like that. Twice Upon a Time made a beautiful coda, and I'm really happy the last episode of DW had some emotional continuity with Doctor Falls