If we assume Ruth is an alternate universe Doctor...Although I confess I'm not sure how the Master being inevitably involved figures into it.
...alternate universe Master?
If we assume Ruth is an alternate universe Doctor...Although I confess I'm not sure how the Master being inevitably involved figures into it.
If we assume Ruth is an alternate universe Doctor...
...alternate universe Master?
This season is just that. Criticism of series 11 fully taken into account. For better or worse.I think it's more about how everyone does their best as she does, but yeah I think it's more unfortunate wording more than anything. And I get that complaining won't retroactively fix anything but criticism should be taken into account going forward.
Why would pre-Hartnell Doctors contradict Listen? All we saw was a kid's hair.
Yes, I know. What suggests that Ruth is the only pre-Hartnell Doctor?
Why would pre-Hartnell Doctors contradict Listen? All we saw was a kid's hair.
Yeah. Gotta do some real goofy gymnastics to get around that one... if she isn't from another reality.
Definitely could be confusing for a lot of people, but I was suspecting the Chameleon Arch pretty early on. Really reminded me of Human Nature.I think the how mental and lore-soaked this episode is can be summed up in the fact they mention the Chameleon Arch in one line without any explanation of what it actually is, have a half second cutaway to the same prop from Human Nature inside alt-Doctor's TARDIS... and that's it. Christ alive.
There''s a million and one ways you can get around that. Especially if the Time Lords have been manipulating things. In the grand scheme of things it's literally nothing.
Reading some of the comments I'm honestly at a loss how some folk are having a hard time rewriting the canon to fit this in. It's also definitely not a parallel universe situation.
Seems like a waste of time. Going by dancing on ice ratings, no one's keeping tabs on John Barrowman. 🤫So apparently John Barrowman had to fake a house renovation to hide why he was in Cardiff and then got so into the deception that he actually did the house renovation!
The scriptwriter and cast of Morbius have apparently gone on record saying that's how they intended it at the time, too.It's not like theory-crafting a way around the TARDIS being a police box would be the biggest stretch this fandom has ever made. We're good at making incompatible things fit.
Exhibit A: the way Doctor Who fandom has managed to delude itself that The Brain of Morbius didn't introduce pre-Hartnell Doctors despite all evidence to the contrary.
There''s a million and one ways you can get around that. Especially if the Time Lords have been manipulating things. In the grand scheme of things it's literally nothing.
Reading some of the comments I'm honestly at a loss how some folk are having a hard time rewriting the canon to fit this in. It's also definitely not a parallel universe situation.
Why can't it be some sort of parallel or alternate timeline thing? Didn't it get alluded to in the first two eps? Would have to rewatch those however to check.
The scriptwriter and cast of Morbius have apparently gone on record saying that's how they intended it at the time, too.
It's cut and dried, straight from the pen of two of Doctor Who's greatest geniuses, and fandom just ignores it. It's crazy.Phillip Hinchcliffe said:"We tried to get famous actors for the faces of the Doctor. But because no one would volunteer, we had to use backroom boys. And it is true to say that I attempted to imply that William Hartnell was not the first Doctor"
I assume they're just going to pretend Miracle Day's cliffhanger never happened.
It looks like everyone read some leaks that said it's pre hartnell, because nothing in the show has confirmed that, yet it keeps being brought up. At least that's what it looks like. I hope I'm wrong and you guys aren't being obnoxious.Not even slightly. The maps in Skyfall was a misunderstanding about what they represented and Orphan 55 was a "possible future"
Also the leaks which I'm not going to discuss.
It looks like everyone read some leaks that said it's pre hartnell, because nothing in the show has confirmed that, yet it keeps being brought up. At least that's what it looks like. I hope I'm wrong and you guys aren't being obnoxious.
I loved the episode though, but I'm tired of the trio doing nothing and just stand there, perfectly aligned, just to tell her "we're with you fam" every once in a while. I really hoped they would do something better with them this season. I liked Graham and Yaz in last season, but I have pretty much nothing to say about them now, except "well, they're present.". 🤷♂️
Maybe the Doctor doesn't remember being Ruth because she is the Doctor but not The Doctor? What I'm saying is that perhaps others have been the Doctor before but some sort of mind bending trickery is utilized so Gallifrey cant remember the previous Time Lord who was the doctor and what not? Better yet have it turn out the last Doctor was actually the Master.
Some people earlier in the thread were saying something like "if the leaks suggest, Chibnall has balls... to rewrite the show 's origins sounds awful" that was before this episode. What else could that mean except saying there were doctors that were pre hartnell?The trick with Doctor Who plots is to assume that the less complicated the potential plot the more likely it is. Then factor in just how little parallel universes have been used in the entire history of the show (Quite rightly too since as much as I love them they make consequences fairly meaningless to a large extent).
Also the leaker so far has been very accurate indeed despite the limited info they provided. This is Chibs doing his own Cartmel Master Plan. It reads exactly like a Virgin NA plot. The show is adding to what we already know. For some reason the Doctor has had previous live(s) before what we knew to be the first one and for some reason has forgotten it. The knowledge of what was going on caused the Master to destroy all the time lords. There'll be some sci-fi bollocks but ultimately the plot will be fairly simple. Something happened in the past that changes our perception of what we've already seen.
It's like how people get confused and think the Doctor changed history during the time war. He didn't. We were just presented with information he hadn't previously had access too. He never destroyed Gallifrey. He just assumed he did. He saved it. Doctor Who doesn't do complicated plots on TV. It's all bog standard and very well worn sci-fi. Enjoyable yes but not complicated. We the fans make it complicated in our heads and then get upset when it doesn't match up on TV.
As someone who is a fan of both Doctor Who and Kingdom Hearts I'm gonna love it if they do that with the Doctor.It'll be a Twins twist. The essence of the "Pre-Doctor" is distilled into two new beings. All the good into one (Doctor/Arnie), all the bad into another (Master/Danny DeVito).
It'll be a Twins twist. The essence of the "Pre-Doctor" is distilled into two new beings. All the good into one (Doctor/Arnie), all the bad into another (Master/Danny DeVito).
Regarding if it's Pre-Hartnell or not - worth pointing out the TARDIS she has is clearly Hartnell era. Not inside - never mind that - but the one clean shot we get of outside when it's being beamed up to the Judoon ship - it's the narrower design, shorter. It has the St. Johns Ambulance logo, which disappears after Season 3 (so, during Hartnell's tenure) and doesn't reappear until Smith's TARDIS - and the proportions are all wrong for it to be the Moffat-era TARDIS, as that one is massive. It's also got the season 1 style light on the top, so it doesn't even match the TARDIS from Hartnell's later serials, only the very earliest ones, like his first 3-4 stories. So it is pretty definitively a TARDIS from the very, very start of the show.
I've been trying to google for it unsuccessfully but wasn't the original plan for the Delgado master before his death to be something like this?
I'll have to defer to those who know the pre-2005 lore far better than me. I'm just trying to link it to the end of episode 2: why would the Master be so damn angry about what he found out? If it just involved the Doctor then it wouldn't fit. It has to be enough to warrant the Master returning to his old ways and also destroying all that remained of the Time Lords. The Master is completely a part of the revelation, by my reckoning.
I've been trying to google for it unsuccessfully but wasn't the original plan for the Delgado master before his death to be something like this?
I'll have to defer to those who know the pre-2005 lore far better than me. I'm just trying to link it to the end of episode 2: why would the Master be so damn angry about what he found out? If it just involved the Doctor then it wouldn't fit. It has to be enough to warrant the Master returning to his old ways and also destroying all that remained of the Time Lords. The Master is completely a part of the revelation, by my reckoning.
Originally the Third Doctor's final, regeneration story was going to be a final showdown with The Mater where the reveal was either going to be that they were brothers or that they were opposing aspects of the same individual - like the yin and yang, or the ego and the id. At the end The Master would recognize this and sacrifice himself to save the Doctor (so, a little bit of this eventually seeped into both The End of Time and The Doctor Falls, and RTD even acknowledged the similarity of the sacrifice after The End of Time broadcast). The story never got far enough along where they decided in a concrete fashion what'd happen. Delgado died, the serial was canned, and that was that.
Rules of Regeneration. The kid must be Hartnell or it's just gonna get weirder lore wise cramming in Doctors.Why would pre-Hartnell Doctors contradict Listen? All we saw was a kid's hair.
A man can dream ;-;I'm pretty sure the answer to any plot question going forward is never going to be the Valeyard :)