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Doctor Who Series 12 |OT| Spyfall Is Where We Start
- Thread starter Paradox
- Start date
I'm amazed none of that leaked beyond (apparently, I've not read them) a couple of forums. Really looking forward to seeing where this goes.
Loved it. For me, that was probably the best 13th Doctor episode so far.
Jack's inclusion probably wasn't necessary but it'll be interesting to see what the show does with him in the future.
Jack's inclusion probably wasn't necessary but it'll be interesting to see what the show does with him in the future.
I don't know if it was a very good episode, felt kind of rushed, like how she teleported those judoon is really sloppy edits in the cathedral and like how quickly they ran from their ship, but I was definitely blown away.
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It's not a retcon. It's a callback to The Brain of Morbius from 1976.
(Also Dr Who has never had a coherent canon to retcon in the first place)
Why though?
I mean, I was against the idea of it and Chibnall is the worst show runner we've had in years, but at the end of the day, as others have said here, the rules and stories surrounding The Doctor and his/her origin have been constantly re-wrote for decades now. This is just another version of it.
That was good! Some genuine laughs with the Judoon and the cafe guy, and shit went cray and yeahhh. Don't really know what to think after that other than that was a good time and i'm ready for shit to hit the fan. Ruth looked fly in that outfit, even the hideous orange shirt.
Also lol at Ryan throwing Graham under the bus like that "he's always a few steps behind, he's not my responsibility" wtf.
Also lol at Ryan throwing Graham under the bus like that "he's always a few steps behind, he's not my responsibility" wtf.
Hmm, unless its a mistake on the shows part (you never know...) Ruth cant be a pre-Hartnell Doctor / incarnation as the TARDIS was the usual Police Phone Box design, which makes me think maybe shes an alternate universe Doctor and with The Master destroying Gallifrey, its allowed the universes to merge / caused some kind of fuckery to happen.
That was a fucking episode. The start with the Judoon felt like it could have came out straight out of an earlier season which was great then the stuff with Jack and Ruth was really interesting. I wish Jack had more to do than deliver setup for a future episode but he'll be back as he said. I saw some stuff going around that he retweeted some stuff about this episode so I was slightly expecting him to be the big reveal the DW social media was hyping up.
Part of me wishes it just stayed simple with that initial Judoon setup since it did feel so much like an older episode but I can appreciate the places they ended up going with it. It's probably my favourite episode of this era so far, although that is slightly dependent on the idea that they deliver on all this setup.
Part of me wishes it just stayed simple with that initial Judoon setup since it did feel so much like an older episode but I can appreciate the places they ended up going with it. It's probably my favourite episode of this era so far, although that is slightly dependent on the idea that they deliver on all this setup.
Maybe the pre-Hartnell Doctor used the police box disguise, then it broke and got stuck, and that's why all subsequent Doctors have hung around twentieth century Earth so much. It's just more convenient.
Given the roundels and her get-up, I was thinking an alt-sixth.
Although I did think Valeyard briefly.
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She didn't remind me of the doctor, not very eccentric, except from the traditional costume. But we don't how early this doctor is from, to be fair and Hartnell was quite a stern doctor too. It's nice to see a non-white doctor but I still hope 14 is as well since they're a lead.
Possibly, but then that would completely destroy the already shown scenes of Hartnell taking the TARDIS in its grey cylinder form from when Clara spoke to him.
This just isn't well thought through if it is pre-Hartnell which it would appear to be
That was a terrible fucking retcon in itself so que sera sera
This in a nutshell. I thought the episode was amazing and I'm surprised a show that has been running this long can keep giving us new stuff. I had a total Virgin NA vibe from that once shit started popping off. I love that we have a show that can keep it so fresh. Shame on the people who want it to be rigid and always the same (And then complain it's stale).
Was it though?
Could be seen as course correction. The Great Intelligence changed things and Clara redirected The Doctor to that TARDIS. That's the way I interpreted that scene
Early episodes claimed that Susan made up the name "TARDIS" in the first place, so it's not like that's ever been consistent.
I think it will end up being a crazy mix of the Doctor's/Gallifrey's past and an alt universe, a bit like the crazy plotline that is starting to kick off in Kingdom Hearts.
It was and as much as the show likes to change its history a lot, I dont feel changing that would work well given it doesnt seem like something that can just be ignored.
I'm going to keep an open mind, but the 1st doctor ran away from Gallifrey and him nicking a tardis was a great origin story before he took on that persona and start hanging out on earth. It's also sweet how the 1st doctor looked the oldest (except from maybe Hurt) and then got younger. 12 also met 1 just before he became the first woman doctor, so it was a meaningful loop and how the change into the 2nd doctor, mirrored the change into 13. It could weaken the legacy of the story if you do loads of incarnations before 1. It's not just about being against filling out the past.
I imagine this is an alt universe Doctor rather than a pre Hartnell one. Stuff about the Doctors past will almost definitely come up for the whole Timeless Child thing but I don't expect there to be a bunch of unknown regenerations prior. Especially since it would take away slightly from Jodie being the first female Doctor.
The Doctor didn't seem to recognise the time period in Gallifrey's history that the other characters came from - perhaps Gallifrey's timeline was wholesale rebooted at some point?
The biggest take away for me so far, is that if this was done years ago, it would be all over the press, but now a days, it probably wont even get that much of a mention, which is sad, but understandable given its not a new and exiting show anymore.
I hope so.
I'm fine with retcons here and there. War Doctor, reviving Gallifrey etc., but this is entirely rewriting the entire history of the character, the motiviations. There's a retcon like Brain of Morbius VS Deadly Assassin onwards, then there's this.
People saying "Doctor Who never cared in the past", it's a potentially bit more extreme variant. There's changing things, then there's changing everything
The new show has been on 15 years. No need to worry about about it not being as popular as it once was. Even if it gets cancelled, it will still come back.
TV series 5 with Davies coming back to produce it!
LET ME DREAM! :(
It's not about if there's an excuse in the lore to make sense of it - who cares - it's just about how Clara was twisted into thie all-important bastion in his life that wasn't really earned. I was okay with the concept of her saving him multiple times over the years without him knowing - I liked that idea, even - but the idea that she got him into that TARDIS and therefore basically set his whole life in motion just irritated me immensely.
Like, people went mad about RTD making Rose "the center of the Doctor's world" or whatever, but the Clara stuff was a million times worse tbh. Liked the character, though.
The way I see, it's ok to retcon things. But the retcon has to better than what was already there and Hartnell being a grumpy and stern, old doctor and becoming more younger and goofier as time went on, is a great story and I don't think you could change that into something better.
Oh I'm not worried, I've been a fan of the show long before it came back on, but when David Tennant did the whole will he wont he regen in series 4, it was everywhere, and now, this, which in my eyes it just as big, wont be.
Its just a sign of the times, thats all.
It does fit with the theory Chibnall's reviving the Cartmel Masterplan from the 80s, though, since they were already setting up a big rewrite of who the Dr was before the show got cancelled.
I have to say - when they were hyping this episode and were saying that it's a bigger shock than than the Master, I thought it was a bit weird and risky and how could they do that
I mean I thought Jack filled that and then they hit that with a fucking whammy in the rest of the episode for the arc
I mean I thought Jack filled that and then they hit that with a fucking whammy in the rest of the episode for the arc
Feel like a few comments probably leaning into stuff in the leak rather than just the episode, and should be tagged.
A retcon for the sake of being different or upending an entire character's backstory for shock value is stupid. I really dislike the stuff in the leak, it's just completely rewriting the Doctor's history into some special chosen one. You can "move the show forward" without doing something like that, the Time War being the best example of changing things up without completely rewriting the past.
A retcon for the sake of being different or upending an entire character's backstory for shock value is stupid. I really dislike the stuff in the leak, it's just completely rewriting the Doctor's history into some special chosen one. You can "move the show forward" without doing something like that, the Time War being the best example of changing things up without completely rewriting the past.
Maybe I'm just short-sighted, but I just don't see what a retcon like that would add? How does it improve the Doctor's story? How does it improve the world she inhabits?
But there hasn't been a progression like that at all. Hartnell was the oldest, but there's been a wide range of ages and levels of goofiness over the years. Hell, the zaniest Doc is probably the 4th.
The more I think about it, the more I'm feeling this is like Scrubs.
We had a perfect ending with Capaldi. The Doctor had had enough, didn't want to continue on, felt he has done enough and it was time for his reward of peace. It had been full circle. Then they added more, and it wasn't great.
I really, REALLY hope they stick the landing with this, but based on Series 11, I don't have high hope...even though this season has definitely been an improvement
We had a perfect ending with Capaldi. The Doctor had had enough, didn't want to continue on, felt he has done enough and it was time for his reward of peace. It had been full circle. Then they added more, and it wasn't great.
I really, REALLY hope they stick the landing with this, but based on Series 11, I don't have high hope...even though this season has definitely been an improvement
Barrowman himself faved and retweeted the tweet a day after it was posted, and earlier in the year he posted a picture of himself in front of the current TARDIS, which just looked like a friendly set visit - but combined with the tweet and the fave and retweet, I think a lot of the hardcore nerds on Gallifrey Base or whatever had it locked.