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APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
Honestly, Luke is the only one I'd want to see return anyway. He is the most interesting out of the crew (although they were all very good).

Clyde was the real star, really, but that was down to the actor. Deceptively good, but in part because he was so much older than the rest - he just looks really young, so he was like in his mid-twenties and playing fifteen(!). It feels like, had Doctor Who come back maybe five years later, he would've been playing Mickey.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
I do wonder whether (in universe) Luke and Clyde would rather travel with the Doctor, or stay on Earth and continue Sarah Jane's legacy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,038
Dr Who is always something I wanted to get into but never did.

Do I need to back? How far back if yes? Can I jump in with this season? Any suggestions?
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
Actually, I'm wondering now what the dynamic would've been like if Graham had been more like Ian; more oppositional towards the Doctor, and more... well generally more like Ian.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
Dr Who is always something I wanted to get into but never did.

Do I need to back? How far back if yes? Can I jump in with this season? Any suggestions?

There's a great many answers to this question, I'd say. Here are the most obvious ones explained, so you can make an informed choice:

  1. You could start when the show came back in its modern form, which is 2005. This would be Series 1, Episode 1, "Rose". This is in the same continuity as the classic show that dates back to 1963, but this episode marked the show's return after over a decade off-air, and it acts as a sort of 'reset' for the continuity. Then, over the years, classic & new continuity/lore seeps back in gradually over time. The problem: the first year of the show was rough in terms of effects, production and sometimes tone even in 2005, so 15 years later it isn't aged brilliantly in this regard. The writing is as sharp as it ever was, though.
  2. The show found its footing a little bit more when the next Doctor arrives, which is 2006. This'd be Series 2 Episode 0 (a Christmas Day special), "The Christmas Invasion". By this point the 13 episodes before this had helped them to find their feet, and the show has a tone, style and direction that'd continue to grow and get finessed without major adjustment for the next ten years.
  3. In 2010, the show underwent a major change - a new Doctor, a new production team, a new showrunner - new everything, basically. Tonally it follows on exactly from 05-09, however. It's the same show, just done with more money and more slickly. This is when the show goes HD, starts to look a lot less cheap (with some nasty CGI here and there), and also when the show with a slight tonal change built up a particularly big cult adult following in the US (in the UK, Doctor Who is more of a family show that happens to have a cult nerd following - think Harry Potter, basically). This is also a great jumping-on point and is hands down the best-quality 'starting' episode in this list, though it also features lore, characters, etc established over the previous five years. The first episode here is "The Eleventh Hour," Series 5 episode 1.
  4. While there's a Doctor change in between the third option and this one it isn't nearly as friendly for newcomers, so - the final option is the most recent, and is basically the same as the previous one - a 'reboot' of the show that's a great jumping-on point. This introduces the current Doctor and main cast, and is written by the current head writer. This is Series 11, Episode 1, "The Woman Who Fell to Earth". This is one season (15 episodes) behind this week's aired episode, fwiw.

Those are the options. Personally I love the idea of starting at "Rose", but that means 150+ episodes(!) across 11 series'. Some people will advise you start with specific episodes, or watch certain episodes of a series and skip others... which is valid, and works because Doctor Who largely has a 'monster of the week' continuity-light structure episode-to-episode (ala Star Trek), but I personally don't recommend that - I'd pick a starting point, go in with an open mind and stick with it - give it a series or two to grow on you.

For my money the "golden age" of recent Doctor Who is probably series 4 and series 5, so two series' that bridge two of the eras highlighted above.

FWIW I wouldn't bother with old Doctor Who unless you have a real taste for really old sci-fi like Star Trek TOS - or unless the modern show grabs you. If anything from 2005-on grabs you and you become a fan, you can then dive into the world of the old iteration of the show from the 60s, 70s and 80s, which will in turn reward you with loads of lore and stuff that'll enhance your enjoyment of the modern stuff.

Anyway. That's it. Those are your options. Do it! The show is great.
 
Last edited:
Jan 4, 2018
1,158
Dr Who is always something I wanted to get into but never did.

Do I need to back? How far back if yes? Can I jump in with this season? Any suggestions?
You can definitely jump in whenever, but I'd probably say series 5 is the best starting point these days if you're willing to go a little further back. Unless you're already into other older (90s, early 2000s) sci-fi shows, then just start with 1.

If you end up liking 5 enough, then I'd say maybe go back through 1-4. It's just I feel like they can be a little rough these days from a production quality standpoint without the help of nostalgia or already being a fan of similar shows.
 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
9,592
You can definitely jump in whenever, but I'd probably say series 5 is the best starting point these days if you're willing to go a little further back. Unless you're already into other older (90s, early 2000s) sci-fi shows, then just start with 1.

If you end up liking 5 enough, then I'd say maybe go back through 1-4. It's just I feel like they can be a little rough these days from a production quality standpoint without the help of nostalgia or already being a fan of similar shows.

I can't imagine skipping Tennant, my favorite Doctor. I did not like Eccleston at all, but he's only there for one season.
 
OP
OP
Paradox

Paradox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
678
The thing I'm finding so far about Series 12 is that clearly someone in the production team took the criticisms to heart and has decided to make the show feel as much like Doctor Who as possible. Which is admirable, obviously, but I can't help but feel the needle's swung back too far in the opposite direction, and now the episodes slightly feel like imitations of what's come before; Spyfall is very reminiscent of RTD's Master stories, Orphan 55 is a fairly rote base under siege, and this past episode is very much a stereotypical celebrity historical.

As much as I struggled with a lot of the episodes last series, on reflection I at least admired that they were trying for a different feel and take (that perhaps wasn't all that effective, but still). I liked this episode, but it also felt like something that fell out of the middle of series 3 or something, and with companions that still feel fairly bland and ill-defined I couldn't get invested as much as I wanted to.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,615
I found it a little unbelievable that none of them had heard of Tesla outside of the cars. Like, I know Nikola Tesla is more of an American historical figure than a worldwide historical figure but his inventions and contributions to modern science are exactly what Thirteen said they are. The companions should know who he is, at LEAST enough for Graham to make a "death ray" joke.

They got there eventually, kind of...
That sounds extremely stupid, all the companions should know who he is

Dr Who is always something I wanted to get into but never did.

Do I need to back? How far back if yes? Can I jump in with this season? Any suggestions?
IMO the best place to start is Season 5 with Matt Smith, you can go back afterwards if you want to.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
The thing I'm finding so far about Series 12 is that clearly someone in the production team took the criticisms to heart and has decided to make the show feel as much like Doctor Who as possible. Which is admirable, obviously, but I can't help but feel the needle's swung back too far in the opposite direction, and now the episodes slightly feel like imitations of what's come before; Spyfall is very reminiscent of RTD's Master stories, Orphan 55 is a fairly rote base under siege, and this past episode is very much a stereotypical celebrity historical.

As much as I struggled with a lot of the episodes last series, on reflection I at least admired that they were trying for a different feel and take (that perhaps wasn't all that effective, but still). I liked this episode, but it also felt like something that fell out of the middle of series 3 or something, and with companions that still feel fairly bland and ill-defined I couldn't get invested as much as I wanted to.

Honestly, I couldn't disagree more strongly; I think Spyfall and Tesla were great lol. Doctor Who has finally stopped feeling like the Doctor is a side character. I think you may be feeling that because of how similar the baddies in the latest episode were to the Racnoss ?
 

Chitown B

Member
Nov 15, 2017
9,592
Honestly, I couldn't disagree more strongly; I think Spyfall and Tesla were great lol. Doctor Who has finally stopped feeling like the Doctor is a side character. I think you may be feeling that because of how similar the baddies in the latest episode were to the Racnoss ?

Did she though? The only times she seemed like she was different than the others was when she was pointing the screwdriver around at everything.
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,793
Ohio
Feels like 13 could have done a quick jaunt to the future with Tesla similar to what 11 did with Van Gogh to show how beloved they are in the future.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
Did she though? The only times she seemed like she was different than the others was when she was pointing the screwdriver around at everything.

Well she definitely didn't feel like an after thought, as she had done for me during series 11. Don't get me wrong, it's still not perfect, but it's a lot closer to pre-CC Who (and pre-2005 I'd dare say) than series 11 ever was.
 

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,996
Finally watched Orphan 55 and while I liked the concept of the episode, it was pretty poorly written. Old lady yelling "BENNI!", taking the whole hotel out to go find him and putting them in extreme danger, the dumb marriage proposal, Bella waiting to blow up the whole hotel and kill everyone but not being suicidal nor having any sort of escape plan. It wasn't really dull but a lot of plot holes, dumb decisions by characters, and tonally inconsistent.
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
The more I think about it, the less inclined I am to recommend starting from Series 5. With exceptions, it was slowly downhill from there and it's only two and a half series until the quality bottoms out. Series 1 is a bit uneven and the video quality is a bit weird but you know what? If that's a dealbreaker, maybe the wildly inconsistent and often infuriating show that is Doctor Who maybe isn't for you.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
The more I think about it, the less inclined I am to recommend starting from Series 5. With exceptions, it was slowly downhill from there and it's only two and a half series until the quality bottoms out. Series 1 is a bit uneven and the video quality is a bit weird but you know what? If that's a dealbreaker, maybe the wildly inconsistent and often infuriating show that is Doctor Who maybe isn't for you.

Whaaaaat?!?
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747

'What?' to you too! Suffering is a core part of the Doctor Who experience. Doctor Who is like a sketch show on a macro level. It tries something new each episode and maybe an entire episode is completely duff and wastes 45 minutes of your life! Or, oh no, a whole series was bad and now you feel bad! But that's just Doctor Who.

That's just Doctor Who.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
'What?' to you too! Suffering is a core part of the Doctor Who experience. Doctor Who is like a sketch show on a macro level. It tries something new each episode and maybe an entire episode is completely duff and wastes 45 minutes of your life! Or, oh no, a whole series was bad and now you feel bad! But that's just Doctor Who.

That's just Doctor Who.

No, I was referring to your feelings about series 5, and after. Obviously it's your opinion but still, whaaat!!! :p
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
Sorry, I meant it was downhill after 5.

Series 5: great
Series 6 and 7A: good
Series 7B: trash and the show was inconsistent at best thereafter
 

EvilRedEye

Member
Oct 29, 2017
747
So, basically you dislike the Clara era?

For me until Amy and Rory stepped out of the Tardis at the end of Series 7A, DW was an inconsistent but generally enjoyable show. From 7B onwards there were often vast stretches where I didn't really like any episodes. I didn't like any of 7B except for Name of the Doctor. I didn't like any of Series 8. I didn't like any of Series 10 except for the finale.

I know this is somewhat personal but I just think why watch a show that's a pretty short way off going into decline when you can put up with one iffy but still pretty good series and watch a seven-and-a-half series stretch of good show.
 

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
I have to say, series 4 is head and shoulders above series 11 and 12.

Series 4, with the exception of the The Unicorn and the Wasp, pretty much pitch perfect from beginning to end. And than of course you get the absolute insanity of a season finale. As much as I like the later seasons, and as much I think that the twelfth Doctor is the best of the new bunch, we never got such a good season again.

Was sort of ok. I got bored and fast forwarded bits. I should start a drinking game for every time the sonic screwdriver is waved around
I was hoping Chibnall would grow a pair and leave the Sonic out of this Doctor, but somehow the Doctor made a new one out of spoons. So yeah...
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
For me until Amy and Rory stepped out of the Tardis at the end of Series 7A, DW was an inconsistent but generally enjoyable show. From 7B onwards there were often vast stretches where I didn't really like any episodes. I didn't like any of 7B except for Name of the Doctor. I didn't like any of Series 8. I didn't like any of Series 10 except for the finale.

I know this is somewhat personal but I just think why watch a show that's a pretty short way off going into decline when you can put up with one iffy but still pretty good series and watch a seven-and-a-half series stretch of good show.

No that's totally understandable, I was just trying to understand.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
Series 4, with the exception of the The Unicorn and the Wasp, pretty much pitch perfect from beginning to end. And than of course you get the absolute insanity of a season finale. As much as I like the later seasons, and as much I think that the twelfth Doctor is the best of the new bunch, we never got such a good season again.

Yeah, it's the best series by far, since Doctor Who returned in 2005 imo. Personally, I also liked TUatW; it was fun to watch.
 

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
I don't mind the episode per se, but I feel it's the one episode in the season that doesn't belong. It's just a fun filler episode and that's about it.

Edit: and for everyone who never watched The Sarah Jane Adventures, absolutely go watch it. It's basically Davies Doctor Who, but with Sarah Jane and kids.
Honestly it's really crazy good and the first series has a great plot twist that, despite coming out of nowhere was absolutely terrific and honestly, it was well earned.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
I don't mind the episode per se, but I feel it's the one episode in the season that doesn't belong. It's just a fun filler episode and that's about it.

Edit: and for everyone who never watched The Sarah Jane Adventures, absolutely go watch it. It's basically Davies Doctor Who, but with Sarah Jane and kids.
Honestly it's really crazy good and the first series has a great plot twist that, despite coming out of nowhere was absolutely terrific and honestly, it was well earned.

I think for me personally, the reason why I like it, is because of how much darker everything became in the following episodes. It was like the calm before the (Oncoming) storm. So for me personally, in that way, it did belong; it was the turning point. Everything pretty much went downhill for the 10th Doctor after that point.

Does that make sense?
 

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,438
Norn Iron
I'd start from 2005, there are some great episodes in the first 4 series worth seeing and it'll add a lot to the 50th anniversary episode too.
 

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
7,710
Australia
I found it a little unbelievable that none of them had heard of Tesla outside of the cars. Like, I know Nikola Tesla is more of an American historical figure than a worldwide historical figure but his inventions and contributions to modern science are exactly what Thirteen said they are. The companions should know who he is, at LEAST enough for Graham to make a "death ray" joke.

They got there eventually, kind of...

Speaking as an Australian, I don't remember learning about Tesla in school. I learned about him from watching The Prestige and subsequently looking him up on Wikipedia.
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
Dr Who is always something I wanted to get into but never did.

Do I need to back? How far back if yes? Can I jump in with this season? Any suggestions?
Start with the episode Rose.

Writing is top notch regarding how likeable the characters are. Seeing from there to Series 4's end has a huge characterization payoff. It's Buffy/Angel levels of payoff.

Afterwards, you're gonna start Series 5; and you either gonna love it or hate it. It's as if JJ Abrams wrote Doctor Who with the level of mystery boxes :v
But coming from Series 1 you might enjoy the change in focus and tone.

So bettter start at Rose.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Watching through it now, there's a lot of improvements over the last season. Arguably not saying much but I am enjoying it.

The master has been the hilight. Missy got way too pantomime as she went on. This new actor is great and actually kind of threatening.

One thing I'm beginning to appreciate is that the world and people around the doctor and the companions are a lot more real. People aren't willing to put up with some stranger acting weird just because they're confident. Situations are actually threatening and the danger feels real rather than something that the doctor can talk out of.


The biggest issue I have is the companions. They aren't bad but they're completely seperate to the Doctor. I realised it in spyfall when they were all off on their own adventure. They had some development and the scenes were fun but completely disconnected. It was the same last season. And while last season they were all underdeveloped, what development they have had in their relationships have only been with each other. Not the Doctor.

Its like they're having their own seperate show while the doctor goes off and gets a new temporary companion each episode.

Also the doctors anti-gun stance is kind of funny when the companions are callously blasting off shots in all directions anytime they get a laser weapon.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,603
Series 4, with the exception of the The Unicorn and the Wasp, pretty much pitch perfect from beginning to end. And than of course you get the absolute insanity of a season finale. As much as I like the later seasons, and as much I think that the twelfth Doctor is the best of the new bunch, we never got such a good season again.

Unicorn and the Wasp is a good episode! And certainly way better than the dire back-to-back-to-back of The Sontaran Strategem, The Poison Sky, and The Doctor's Daughter. The finale is also a bit pants...

I do think it is the best of the RTD era though and probably a top 3 or 4 season otherwise.
 

Lee Morris

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,724
Feels like 13 could have done a quick jaunt to the future with Tesla similar to what 11 did with Van Gogh to show how beloved they are in the future.

The only reason the doctor could do that was because he knew he was going to die very soon after.

It would be a bit dangerous for a tech guy like Tesla to see the future. Thinking about it him seeing inside the TARDIS would probably radically have altered Earth's history but chibnall doesn't really care about sci fi or time travel. He just wants a drama show.

For me until Amy and Rory stepped out of the Tardis at the end of Series 7A, DW was an inconsistent but generally enjoyable show. From 7B onwards there were often vast stretches where I didn't really like any episodes. I didn't like any of 7B except for Name of the Doctor. I didn't like any of Series 8. I didn't like any of Series 10 except for the finale.

I know this is somewhat personal but I just think why watch a show that's a pretty short way off going into decline when you can put up with one iffy but still pretty good series and watch a seven-and-a-half series stretch of good show.

Clara's entire stretch on the show dragged the show way way down. She was so bland after Amy's spikey energy.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,810
The only reason the doctor could do that was because he knew he was going to die very soon after.

It would be a bit dangerous for a tech guy like Tesla to see the future. Thinking about it him seeing inside the TARDIS would probably radically have altered Earth's history but chibnall doesn't really care about sci fi or time travel. He just wants a drama show.



Clara's entire stretch on the show dragged the show way way down. She was so bland after Amy's spikey energy.

Personally, I liked the Doctor/Clara relationship, reminded me a lot of the Doctor & Rose. The best pairing imo was the Doctor/Donna.
 

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
7,710
Australia
Tesla's Night of Terror got an AI of 79, on par with last seasons's lowest ranked episodes (The Tsuranga Conundrum and The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos). Disappointing.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,419
Tesla's Night of Terror got an AI of 79, on par with last seasons's lowest ranked episodes (The Tsuranga Conundrum and The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos). Disappointing.
I thought it was a good Historical episode. Even though I think this seres has been decent so far (except from ep 3) it still needs a kick up the arse with the writing.
 

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
I loved Clara, but only in series 8 and some of series 9. She was a completely different character every other episode in series 7.
But in all fairness, if it wasn't for her, we wouldn't have gotten Heaven Sent. So she's fine in my book, even if she was terrible from start to finish.
 

KingWillance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,374
"Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror" was a pretty fun romp, would have fit in among the Rusty episodes fairly well. Echo the people saying that the companions could use further shading; i appreciate the increase in pacing in this season but the trio aren't developed enough to be coasting on their fun vibes. Jodie has more to do so far and I still really like her performance. "Orphan 55" was pretty naff but it still had the great line (paraphrasing) "That's fine, I don't need someone else to have a conversation. Oftentimes it just slows me down."
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,931
There's a great many answers to this question, I'd say. Here are the most obvious ones explained, so you can make an informed choice:

  1. You could start when the show came back in its modern form, which is 2005. This would be Series 1, Episode 1, "Rose". This is in the same continuity as the classic show that dates back to 1963, but this episode marked the show's return after over a decade off-air, and it acts as a sort of 'reset' for the continuity. Then, over the years, classic & new continuity/lore seeps back in gradually over time. The problem: the first year of the show was rough in terms of effects, production and sometimes tone even in 2005, so 15 years later it isn't aged brilliantly in this regard. The writing is as sharp as it ever was, though.
  2. The show found its footing a little bit more when the next Doctor arrives, which is 2006. This'd be Series 2 Episode 0 (a Christmas Day special), "The Christmas Invasion". By this point the 13 episodes before this had helped them to find their feet, and the show has a tone, style and direction that'd continue to grow and get finessed without major adjustment for the next ten years.
  3. In 2010, the show underwent a major change - a new Doctor, a new production team, a new showrunner - new everything, basically. Tonally it follows on exactly from 05-09, however. It's the same show, just done with more money and more slickly. This is when the show goes HD, starts to look a lot less cheap (with some nasty CGI here and there), and also when the show with a slight tonal change built up a particularly big cult adult following in the US (in the UK, Doctor Who is more of a family show that happens to have a cult nerd following - think Harry Potter, basically). This is also a great jumping-on point and is hands down the best-quality 'starting' episode in this list, though it also features lore, characters, etc established over the previous five years. The first episode here is "The Eleventh Hour," Series 5 episode 1.
  4. While there's a Doctor change in between the third option and this one it isn't nearly as friendly for newcomers, so - the final option is the most recent, and is basically the same as the previous one - a 'reboot' of the show that's a great jumping-on point. This introduces the current Doctor and main cast, and is written by the current head writer. This is Series 11, Episode 1, "The Woman Who Fell to Earth". This is one season (15 episodes) behind this week's aired episode, fwiw.

Those are the options. Personally I love the idea of starting at "Rose", but that means 296 episodes(!) across 11 series'. Some people will advise you start with specific episodes, or watch certain episodes of a series and skip others... which is valid, and works because Doctor Who largely has a 'monster of the week' continuity-light structure episode-to-episode (ala Star Trek), but I personally don't recommend that - I'd pick a starting point, go in with an open mind and stick with it - give it a series or two to grow on you.

For my money the "golden age" of recent Doctor Who is probably series 4 and series 5, so two series' that bridge two of the eras highlighted above.

FWIW I wouldn't bother with old Doctor Who unless you have a real taste for really old sci-fi like Star Trek TOS - or unless the modern show grabs you. If anything from 2005-on grabs you and you become a fan, you can then dive into the world of the old iteration of the show from the 60s, 70s and 80s, which will in turn reward you with loads of lore and stuff that'll enhance your enjoyment of the modern stuff.

Anyway. That's it. Those are your options. Do it! The show is great.
MrFrankFontaine That is a perfect response to your question and deserves a threadmark imo. Something else to consider is the first season with this new Doctor wasn't well received generally, aside from a couple of great episodes, and Tennant's Doctor (2005) is widely considered to be the best of the modern bunch, so that's another reason for starting from back then unless you have some affinity with a specific actor who played the role later. Btw I think it's more like 144 episodes so far since then, not 296 as APZ said.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,472
I loved Clara, but only in series 8 and some of series 9. She was a completely different character every other episode in series 7.
But in all fairness, if it wasn't for her, we wouldn't have gotten Heaven Sent. So she's fine in my book, even if she was terrible from start to finish.

This was also a problem with Amy in most seasons, honestly. I felt Clara was significantly better written once Smith's era was over, but Amy was always super inconsistent, primarily buoyed by Rory's character growth.