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Doctor Who Series 12 |OT| Spyfall Is Where We Start
- Thread starter Paradox
- Start date
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I enjoyed it. Dhawan is a bit too Simm-like, and Missy is a hard act to follow, but I still thought that was a great Master reveal. Also appreciate the throwback to the Master's creepy TCE antics.
Still not 100% sold on the new era, but I still really like Whittaker and the new companions. My main beef is Chibnall's style (cinematography and all) feels a little too dark and bland for how goofy the show is, so it just constantly feels "off." There's a Torchwood-esque moodiness that just doesn't mesh for me.
Warning: the following contains insanely nerdy and definitely wrong speculation, so please don't read it unless you want to waste a few seconds of your life.
My out-there theory for what was going on in that weird "other place": this is Chibnall's take on Looms. It's one of those weird things from the wilderness years that fans are persistently begging to be canonized, it would tie into both the Doctor and the Master's backstory, and some sort of creepy Time Lord birthing chamber existing in the wake of the Time War fits with the Master's whole "everything you know is a lie" thing.
Also, the silhouette of those new aliens vaguely remind me a bit of Fifth Doctor-era Omega:
Omega basically jumpstarted Time Lord civilization by pioneering the technology to manipulate stars as a power source for time travel, but got sucked into a black hole, lost his physical form, and ended up in an antimatter universe. Also, lost we saw him he was trying to create a tangible body for himself using the Doctor's biological data, which reminds me of what the new aliens were doing in the premiere.
So, my insane theory is basically that there's a race of fucked up antimatter Time Lords feeding off the biological data of people from various universes to fuel their Looms in order to "spawn" into our universe.
Granted, Chibnall said back in 2018 he hadn't ever read Lungbarrow because he'd never been able to find a copy, but who's to say he didn't find a copy in the meantime and come up with his own take on the concept??
(Sorry to anyone who read this.)
You know what, if Chibnall's got people speculating that the Looms are coming back then he's clearly doing something right. I welcome your insanity.
I will agree about something being odd about the cinematography though, and I wish I had to proper know-how to actually define it. Like, saying the show somehow looks too good feels like an incredibly stupid thing to say but...it's like the argument about how higher framerate in movies makes them look 'too real'. It's like the budget restraints of earlier Who series lent something to its campiness.
Sweet christ, I thought that was dreadfully boring. Companions are still non-entities, and 13's "jokes" are as rubbish as ever.
I'll wait and see on this new Master business, but I did feel like they were trying to make the reveal as shocking as the Simm/Gomez ones, and they really failed.
I really don't get how anyone can look at this and the Capaldi run and think "yeah this is better." But, hey, everyone's different.
I'll wait and see on this new Master business, but I did feel like they were trying to make the reveal as shocking as the Simm/Gomez ones, and they really failed.
I really don't get how anyone can look at this and the Capaldi run and think "yeah this is better." But, hey, everyone's different.
I hope 13 and the companions get some deeper character development this season. That I forgot all the names of the companions was a bad sign. That I still can't tell you what makes 13 unique among the other Doctors is worrying too. I need something more than just the Doctor being quirky and protecting her friends, all the Doctors do that.
I thought it was an ok episode. The Master reveal was unexpected and the actor seems to do the maniacal bit well. The potential of there being a multi-verse intrigues me too. I'll have to see how part 2 pays all this off.
I thought it was an ok episode. The Master reveal was unexpected and the actor seems to do the maniacal bit well. The potential of there being a multi-verse intrigues me too. I'll have to see how part 2 pays all this off.
To be honest, the master reveal was more shocking than Missy and Yana, because that had more foreshadowing throughtout the series 'you are not alone' and in 2014 Missy was either going to the Master... or the Rani. I kind of like they threw the Master out without a fan fare.
I enjoyed it. Dhawan is a bit too Simm-like, and Missy is a hard act to follow, but I still thought that was a great Master reveal. Also appreciate the throwback to the Master's creepy TCE antics.
Still not 100% sold on the new era, but I still really like Whittaker and the new companions. My main beef is Chibnall's style (cinematography and all) feels a little too dark and bland for how goofy the show is, so it just constantly feels "off." There's a Torchwood-esque moodiness that just doesn't mesh for me.
Warning: the following contains insanely nerdy and definitely wrong speculation, so please don't read it unless you want to waste a few seconds of your life.
My out-there theory for what was going on in that weird "other place": this is Chibnall's take on Looms. It's one of those weird things from the wilderness years that fans are persistently begging to be canonized, it would tie into both the Doctor and the Master's backstory, and some sort of creepy Time Lord birthing chamber existing in the wake of the Time War fits with the Master's whole "everything you know is a lie" thing.
Also, the silhouette of those new aliens vaguely remind me a bit of Fifth Doctor-era Omega:
Omega basically jumpstarted Time Lord civilization by pioneering the technology to manipulate stars as a power source for time travel, but got sucked into a black hole, lost his physical form, and ended up in an antimatter universe. Also, lost we saw him he was trying to create a tangible body for himself using the Doctor's biological data, which reminds me of what the new aliens were doing in the premiere.
So, my insane theory is basically that there's a race of fucked up antimatter Time Lords feeding off the biological data of people from various universes to fuel their Looms in order to "spawn" into our universe.
Granted, Chibnall said back in 2018 he hadn't ever read Lungbarrow because he'd never been able to find a copy, but who's to say he didn't find a copy in the meantime and come up with his own take on the concept??
(Sorry to anyone who read this.)
I wish it was this. It sounds a million times more interesting than whatever it will end up actually being.
Loved Sasha Dhawan being cast for the simple fact of his amazing performance in "An Adventure In Time And Space" alone, never mind the fact that he's The Master.
They really do. By this time in past series, I'd be really invested in the companions, I would care what happens to them. Chibnall bungled up their characters so much, I'd barely even notice if they're all gone next episode.
But the build up and the hype worked into the shock. Yana's turn gave me goosebumps, you knew there would be a Time Lord returning, sure, but come on, the way it links to the Family of Blood was awesome because you knew what it meant and why it really mattered. And considering how everything around the Doctor was falling apart as the reveal for both Yana and Missy happened was next level hype.
The Dhawan Master reveal was characteristic of Chibnall Who: Predictably underwhelming.
Missy's reveal will never be topped for me. The whole 5 minutes leading up to her saying "I'm Missy, short for Mistress. Well I couldn't very well keep calling myself The Master now, could I?" had my friend and I on the edge of our seats. I remember it fondly
I agree that they were fun reveals but I am glad they didn't spend a whole season building his return up, it's a welcome change, made it more suprising for new who and fit in with the old master that some times he would show up without warning.
I mean, they just won't. They never have. Doing this is practically a
RTD already predicted what would happen back in about 2009. He said... eventually, it will be cancelled again and go off the air again... But what the 2005 revival secured is that when that happens, it will only be a temporary measure. It'll be back, and probably keep continuity as 2005 did.
I guess when it goes off the air, eventually they'll be a nostalgic thirst for it, especially like the David Tennant/Matt Smith years and it'll come back stronger than ever. Fucking hell... Doctor Who's coming back! lol
I think the switch was well done, not as good as Yana's but that was a different thing, since he got his memories back. This was the master purposely putting on a different personality, much more subtle, compared to Razor and John Simm is a budget klingon mask. (which was kind of amusing to be fair)
It was just moreso the fact that he is already an arguably huge part of the Doctor Who universe, and that that brings with it a certain "good" feeling. Ok, he didn't have much screen time in AISAT but playing such a significant character in the Doctor Who lore carries with it a sense of grandeur, added to the fact that we are dealing with source material featuring a British-Indian director and a female television producer in 1960s England.
I still would like they bring back Jo's grandson :p
And other SJA characters! And revive Torchwood with some of them...
I just said the same thing yeah. Last episode was all Bond and Stranger Things. This one feels a little more unique but the whole 'classic connection/sense' felt very The Last Jedi.
Oh for fuck sake, Chris Chibnall's going to re-write the entire bloody history and Lore of Doctor Who.
Because Doctor Who has neeeevvvver evvver retconned or added lore to the Galifery and the history of the Galferians.
The old "everything we were told was a lie" trope eh.
Honestly, if this somehow means they're wiping the original history and making out it was all a lie as indicated here, with Gallifrey being built on one, I really hope Chris fucks off after.
Honestly, if this somehow means they're wiping the original history and making out it was all a lie as indicated here, with Gallifrey being built on one, I really hope Chris fucks off after.
Man, I'm totally down with some of the concepts in this episode but the dialogue and character interactions are just so lame. The Master comes across as boring too.
Can you elaborate a bit for someone who didn't watch it?
Really glad they didn't kill off the Master, he's definetly going to be back for the season finale
And we've had Gallifrey being built on lies a few times before, going all the way back to the Three Doctors.
I thought it slightly better than last week. But the doctor should have done all that plane stuff *before* she met them. That kind of time paradox always annoys me, and here it would have been easily fixed. The aliens also ended up being underwhelming after a strong showing in part one.
I am very worried about chibers dipping his toe in timelord lore too
I am very worried about chibers dipping his toe in timelord lore too
Oh I really liked that as an episode. Particularly as it had a lot going on early doors in the first half, fun extra characters, using the continuity of the show, setting up some new stuff.
Basically saying that everything we thought we knew about the Time Lords, how they came to be and what Gallifrey was built on is a lie and refers back to The Timeless Child from series 11.
It seems as though Chris Chibnall has decided fuck it, lets mess with how the Time Lords came to be and retcon it.
Hmm... Well he's a brave man if he's deciding to re-write stuff like that...
Being mad about this sort of thing is truly insane as the show is pretty much built on making these sorts of changes on a regular basis, especially in the modern era.
Though the funny thing is - man, as the show struggles a bit in the ratings etc, this mystery has a whiff of the Cartmel Masterplan about it - which of course never came to pass because McCoy's era was cut short before it could come to fruition. Funny how circular these things can be.
That doesn't mean you can't think it's a bad idea to do so, even if it happens regularly...
Resolution to the cliffhanger was guff but not unforgivable given that Doctor Who cliffhangers are often perfunctory.
Master was made to look a bit pathetic at the beginning having only been fully introduced in the closing moments of the previous episode.
Main story was just boring waffle that ended in the homeopathic remnants of some vague social commentary about how we're too dependent on computers, with a perfunctory outcome more fitting for a single-episode story.
Then having spent most of an hour demonstrating why he's unfit to be Doctor Who showrunner, Chibnall decides to undermine the last 15 years of underlying plot and also start dicking about with the underlying foundations of the whole show! I mean who knows, maybe it won't be complete shit but I have very little faith at this point.
Master was made to look a bit pathetic at the beginning having only been fully introduced in the closing moments of the previous episode.
Main story was just boring waffle that ended in the homeopathic remnants of some vague social commentary about how we're too dependent on computers, with a perfunctory outcome more fitting for a single-episode story.
Then having spent most of an hour demonstrating why he's unfit to be Doctor Who showrunner, Chibnall decides to undermine the last 15 years of underlying plot and also start dicking about with the underlying foundations of the whole show! I mean who knows, maybe it won't be complete shit but I have very little faith at this point.
Pretty much every story about the Time Lords has rewritten Time Lord lore, so that's hardly new.
Someone desperately needs to hire an editor to rein Chibnall in. That was all over the place with at least two more plot threads than it really needed.
Okay spoilers here from Gallifrey Base
Poster first posted this on Oct 19
So point No.3 definitely was true. They then posted
Poster first posted this on Oct 19
oh boy guys I've got leaks, and you're in for a wild ride with Series 12 and its additions to canon. And it's not looking good.
If you believe me, I have only four clues. Not sure I want to get C&Ded by The BBC.
1. "Cyber Zealot"
2. "Death Particle"
3. "The Master and Waris Hussein"
4. "Ruth and the Child in Time"
If you believe me, I have only four clues. Not sure I want to get C&Ded by The BBC.
1. "Cyber Zealot"
2. "Death Particle"
3. "The Master and Waris Hussein"
4. "Ruth and the Child in Time"
So point No.3 definitely was true. They then posted
I feel the only thing I can explain without being murdered is the Child in Time. I'm still in shock at the route Chibnall has gone down.
The Child in Time is the Doctor themselves, and is their "first life" per se. As a child, they were unkillable and could regenerate endlessly. Found on an unknown planet, they were taken back to Gallifrey, where their abilities allowed Gallifreyans to become Time Lords. The character "Ruth" is (apparently) an earlier life of the Doctor.
I appreciate this sounds like the Virgin Books from during the hiatus, but believe me when I say all this is true; and if it's anything like how my source explained it, the entire fandom will explode. I'm shocked.
The Child in Time is the Doctor themselves, and is their "first life" per se. As a child, they were unkillable and could regenerate endlessly. Found on an unknown planet, they were taken back to Gallifrey, where their abilities allowed Gallifreyans to become Time Lords. The character "Ruth" is (apparently) an earlier life of the Doctor.
I appreciate this sounds like the Virgin Books from during the hiatus, but believe me when I say all this is true; and if it's anything like how my source explained it, the entire fandom will explode. I'm shocked.
Oh boy is Chibnall going in hard with the canon. I didn't think we would be going this deep. Especially after last series