I'm dreading to see how CC handles the potentially returning villain.
My main dread is the new design, again, given that it was a disaster last time.
I'm dreading to see how CC handles the potentially returning villain.
They're not.My main dread is the new design, again, given that it was a disaster last time.
Bill was good. The Doctor was always well written but isn't, you know, human. I'm not saying I disliked his writing. Like I said, my biggest complaint is that sometimes he didn't give his great ideas enough room to breath.
If we want to talk character development, then obviously Graham stands out, but I wasn't talking about development, but how human characters felt. To use a non Moffat example, I mean it in the same way Rose often didn't feel 'human' in season 2 (Tooth and Claw and The Idiot Lantern stand out). Clara was great in her governess form, but I really didn't like the first or third version of her. I wish they'd stuck with the original plan to have the governess become the companion.
The teams interactions with all the staff in Kerblam! really sell you on the idea that they're still essentially human. They treat the people they run into like equals, even though they're doing menial jobs. They aren't 'special' in some scifi cosmic way like most of Moffat's companions. Those are the stories Moffat liked to tell. Amy, the girl with the crack in her wall. Rory the man who died a lot and who spent thousands of years as a Roman auton. Clara the woman who became thousands of versions of herself all for the Doctor. It's understandable that they aren't particularly recognizable as humans.
And to be as transparent as possible, I loved Nardole because he was unashamedly alien. Osgood was a very 'human' character, even if she stopped being human.
I guess I like the Doctor to be offset by characters that represent humanity, and the current team are wonderfully human.
Rose was at her best when taking the time to chat to a plumber or enthusing about chips. Not yucking it up while people died.
Just my own tastes. It wasn't my intent to imply that Moffat *can't* write humans who behave human. But he rarely seemed interested in it, almost seeming to suggest that it's admirable for people to refuse travel with the Doctor.
Yeah, this in particular and everything else in your post, are exactly my thoughtsFinally got around to watching the finale, and I had a good time. Mostly. It's the most exciting episode all year.
But the glaring problems persist. Still only care about Graham. Still weirded out by the Doctor's bullshit morality. When she told Graham that if he killed Tim Shaw he'd become the same as him....
I hate that I didn't like it. I hate that this is what Chibnall managed to deliver for the first female Doctor. I cringe at the thought that we might end up only managing to credit this era of the show for casting a different gender in the role as its only innovation and not much else.
Goddammit, why?!
That wasn't what I was talking about when I said why...Doctor Who was a great show during Series 1-10, but it had acquired an ever smaller niche audience that grew ever less satisfied. Series 11 has better ratings and has stunned casual audiences by showing the capacity of this medium to cover historical events in an accessible way.
And you ask why?
In Reith's own words: inform, educate, entertain.
Whatever. You're wondering why the show isn't what you've grown to expect. Don't complain because you don't like the answer you get.
I'm pretty sure the ratings boost was due mainly to the interest in a female Doctor. The premiere's ratings were undeniability great, but the ratings have had a significant downward slope in a way that no other season has, with the finale getting lower ratings than Capaldi's first finale.
No, still just overnight but the percentages should be very similar. Overnight was 5.3m.Are the consolidated figures in for the finale? Hadn't seen them yet...
Whatever. You're wondering why the show isn't what you've grown to expect. Don't complain because you don't like the answer you get.
I think there could've been a way to achieve the three things you mentioned while also delivering stories that aren't so...bland, and a Doctor who doesn't feel like an accessory to her own show. Chibnall is just not a very good writer - he's definitely a solid producer, but he simply doesn't seem to have the chops necessary to be head writer.
I think I can concede that criticism, albeit I have enjoyed a lot of his writing. He's following two of the greatest writers the show has ever seen, and that's a very sticky wicket to play.
Most of the stories that really stood out in Series 11 were by supporting writers. I don't think that's a bad thing. This is a show that almost any writer can treat as a blank slate, and the success of the two major historicals in this series must surely make this franchise a very attractive proposition to any young writer looking to make their mark.
I think the issue really comes down to the fact that there weren't enough of the standout guest-writer episodes. The ones we did get were so head and shoulders above the rest that they really expose the weaknesses of Chibnall's general style as a writer.
It's not good. That is the problemWhatever. You're wondering why the show isn't what you've grown to expect. Don't complain because you don't like the answer you get.
that's a subject matter and a plot point, nothing to do with the execution.Not what I'm seeing. Twitter lit up with people who had never heard of the Partition of India.
that's a subject matter and a plot point, nothing to do with the execution.
I was excited about them doing that. But I don't think it was good. Both those things can be trueWell that's how to get the audience.
Russell T Davies and Steven Moffat are both brilliant writers and great showrunners who risked their health to keep the show going. The result, though I maintain that the quality was ridiculously high, was a dwindling and increasingly cynical audience. Such is the nature of fandom.
Not once in twelve years did the show focus on young people of Indian and African heritage and explore their background in a way a small child could understand. Ryan steps out of the TARDIS and picks up a lady's dropped glove, provoking a major incident. Yaz visits her mother and finds that her first love was a Hindu neighbour who died in a terrible civil war that has been all but forgotten.
Shit, this is brilliant, audacious stuff! Why aren't you excited about this? I know you probably never saw The Trojans (Myth Makers) or Marco Polo, but come on!
I was excited about them doing that. But I don't think it was good. Both those things can be true
You can have valid complaints without being able to do it better yourself. I'm ashamed you decided to go for an argument like this.Yeah. It sucks for me being the person who knows how much better I would have produced the latest Doctor Who. This year and every year since 1970. Yet Doctor Who has managed to survive without my superior expertise. I'm utterly galled by this, as you might imagine.
Are we really doing the 'you shouldn't criticize something if you couldn't make it' thing?Yeah. It sucks for me being the person who knows how much better I would have produced the latest Doctor Who. This year and every year since 1970. Yet Doctor Who has managed to survive without my superior expertise. I'm utterly galled by this, as you might imagine.
Are we really doing the 'you shouldn't criticize something if you couldn't make it' thing?
My problem with the season is that it felt like it was written for small children. No real substance to the story at all (my opinion). There were a few "ok" episodes but ultimately no real story arcs and mostly throw away villains and such. It's essentially a childrens show with absout as much story substance as a Saturday Morning cartoon.
My favorite seasons of Who are still Series 5 and 6. There was a lot more mystery, adventure, etc going on. The stakes were higher, the characters were more interesting, there was stuff to really talk about. The BBC did it's best work to turn Who into a childrens show which is why small school children are always used in the promotional material.
Nothing against children shows, mine you. Just not really my cup of tea. All of this is my opinion. For those who enjoyed the season then that's great!
My problem with the season is that it felt like it was written for small children.
My favorite seasons of Who are still Series 5 and 6. There was a lot more mystery, adventure, etc going on. The stakes were higher, the characters were more interesting, there was stuff to really talk about.
The BBC did it's best work to turn Who into a childrens show which is why small school children are always used in the promotional material.
The funny thing is the flip side is I think this has been a less engaging series for kids (anecdotal evidence, admittedly - but my partner is a teacher and thus has a relatively good idea of what is being talked about and inspiring play in the playground) than I'd like Doctor Who to be. It's doing good stuff - episodes like Rosa and Demons are important - but kids love a bit of shooty-bang and exciting running around, and this hasn't got nearly enough of that.
Yeah, as kids we always loved to play Daleks. I remember a school Christmas party in the mid-sixties in which we all started a great battle of Daleks against the rest. It was glorious, we just loved the momentous sense of occasion.
Yes, and at this year's xmas party, kids will pretend to be killer bubble wrap. Sums up the just ended series really.
Yeah, reception for series 8 was dire back then. I'm a casual follower of Who, but from what I've seen, the fandom seems to fall into the same cycles that plague final fantasy and Zelda.I do think people are forgetting how negative the Neogaf thread was about S8. It was pretty similar, right down to "I like Capaldi but he isn't being given good scripts and he's being written weird."
I happen to think S8 was better than S11, but I think there's a certain about of warming-up that has to happen with a new Doctor and a new tone, and that takes time.
I'm talking about the frustration of it not coming together for me, I hoped that Chibnall will surprise me and take the show to a place where it expertly synthesizes the best of RTD and Moffat's eras striking a fantastic balance. But since I found that it lacked both the charming real-life characters of RTD and the exciting plots of Moffat, and the wit and poetry of both, it's disappointing to say the least.I don't get it. Isn't the improved audience profile important?
Because as a brown dude myself, I'm not impressed when it feels like the entire point of a PoC character is to educate white people about the most basic stuff of their race's struggles. This reads a bit more harsh than I mean it, but whatever, let me elaborate why everything post WWFTE pisses me off in that regard...Not once in twelve years did the show focus on young people of Indian and African heritage and explore their background in a way a small child could understand. Ryan steps out of the TARDIS and picks up a lady's dropped glove, provoking a major incident. Yaz visits her mother and finds that her first love was a Hindu neighbour who died in a terrible civil war that has been all but forgotten.
Shit, this is brilliant, audacious stuff! Why aren't you excited about this? I know you probably never saw The Trojans (Myth Makers) or Marco Polo, but come on!
Capaldi was a really fantastic doctor, but he didnt really come into
His own til series 9. So im willing to give this doctor the benefit of the doubt as once next season rolls around we will all
Be used to her as the doctor and hopefully she will get some proper character development
I very much remember the s8 GAF thread because it seemed that I was the only one loving it.I do think people are forgetting how negative the Neogaf thread was about S8. It was pretty similar, right down to "I like Capaldi but he isn't being given good scripts and he's being written weird."
I happen to think S8 was better than S11, but I think there's a certain about of warming-up that has to happen with a new Doctor and a new tone, and that takes time.
That's an interesting point, yeah I do think that, too. Jodie sometimes even clearly plays it that way, the scene where she tells the team about Rosa Parks receiving the medal of freedom.My problem with the season is that it felt like it was written for small children. No real substance to the story at all (my opinion). There were a few "ok" episodes but ultimately no real story arcs and mostly throw away villains and such. It's essentially a childrens show with absout as much story substance as a Saturday Morning cartoon.
That's interesting to read.The funny thing is the flip side is I think this has been a less engaging series for kids (anecdotal evidence, admittedly - but my partner is a teacher and thus has a relatively good idea of what is being talked about and inspiring play in the playground) than I'd like Doctor Who to be. It's doing good stuff - episodes like Rosa and Demons are important - but kids love a bit of shooty-bang and exciting running around, and this hasn't got nearly enough of that.
Yeah, 13 seems like a Doctor who should appeal to kids, but if I were a kid I think I'd be bored to death watching The Woman Who Fell to Earth, The Ghost Monument, Arachnids in the UK, etc.The funny thing is the flip side is I think this has been a less engaging series for kids (anecdotal evidence, admittedly - but my partner is a teacher and thus has a relatively good idea of what is being talked about and inspiring play in the playground) than I'd like Doctor Who to be. It's doing good stuff - episodes like Rosa and Demons are important - but kids love a bit of shooty-bang and exciting running around, and this hasn't got nearly enough of that.
Agreed completely. This series certainly didn't give me the impression that Ryan could move on next series without Graham, he seemed to be in the finale especially just an extension of Graham, as you said.Over the course of the season he lost more and more specificity, becoming an extension of Graham and little else. When he doesn't even get the chance to interact with his dead grandma in It Takes You Away, it became really hard to not feel that he long have fulfilled the point of his existence on the show, which is to get slapped in 1950s Alabama, and get to gawk at American Civil Rights heroes, even though he admits in that same episode that he barely paid attention to them before.