I started watched the last season again. I remember not hating it, but not loving it, just happy Steven Moffat wasn't being brilliant and terrible on alternate days anymore.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
My wife and I are onto the Capaldi era and watched Deep Breath last night. It was a little better than I remember but I still think this episode is just way way too long, and doesn't have nearly enough story to support its runtime. It's also probably the worst first impression of any modern Doctor, and I say that as someone who ranks Capaldi as his favorite of that group. Rose, The Christmas Invasion, The Eleventh Hour, and The Woman Who Fell to Earth all successfully sold their Doctors right out of the gate. Capaldi doesn't really find his best footing (more so because of the direction of the character than his performance) until maybe Listen, but even that aside this episode does not do a good job at all of really endearing you to the Twelfth Doctor. And while I get why Moffat wanted to address that it was ok that this guy was going to be a different Doctor than Smith, the way it comes off via Vastra just feels almost condescending to the viewer.
To that point, my wife -- who only started watching the show last year -- loved Eccleston's Doctor, was very upset that he was leaving the show and did not like Tennant coming in...until the end of The Christmas Invasion when he started doing things lol. Then she got (obsessively) attached to Tennant, did not want a new Doctor coming in, did not like Smith's first post-regeneration scene...then we watched The Eleventh Hour and she was sold. Finishing Deep Breath, she is not sold on Capaldi, and I think that's imo Moffat's biggest failing during his eight years as showrunner: it took far too long to really get audiences onboard with Capaldi's Doctor, which is a huge shame because Capaldi's Doctor I think ended up being both the best performance we've had of the Doctor and also the most interesting characterization of the Doctor.
To that point, my wife -- who only started watching the show last year -- loved Eccleston's Doctor, was very upset that he was leaving the show and did not like Tennant coming in...until the end of The Christmas Invasion when he started doing things lol. Then she got (obsessively) attached to Tennant, did not want a new Doctor coming in, did not like Smith's first post-regeneration scene...then we watched The Eleventh Hour and she was sold. Finishing Deep Breath, she is not sold on Capaldi, and I think that's imo Moffat's biggest failing during his eight years as showrunner: it took far too long to really get audiences onboard with Capaldi's Doctor, which is a huge shame because Capaldi's Doctor I think ended up being both the best performance we've had of the Doctor and also the most interesting characterization of the Doctor.
I gotta disagree with this, I had the opposite reaction. Watching Deep Breath for the first time I was more sold on Capaldi's Doctor than any of the others with the premiere. The voice, how he felt like the Doctor finally unmasked without any fake youthful faces, how the Doctor was finally mysterious again. I didn't need him to be immediately endearing to be sold. Really allows for Capaldi to have the character arc in his first series that Smith didn't.
At this point we have to accept him as part of Moffat's posse. Which is absurd because the guy was new and talented enough to run the show himself. He absolutely could've come over but it's a total production reboot.
It's heartbreaking. One of the best new writers Who has had in ages and Chibnall won't use him.
Agreed. I don't think Deep Breath is a great episode OVERALL but I do like it as a tone-setter and arc-establisher for Twelve. By comparison Eleventh Hour is a good goddamn episode but also basically symbolic of the kind of bloated bombast that typified the Smith era. Smith's Doctor didn't really have an arc or a character progression nearly as much as Eccleston, Tennant or ESPECIALLY Capaldi.
I just hope this S12 trailer isn't another roll call of guests where I've not heard of 90% of them before. Maybe that last one went over really well with UK audiences, but landed with a hard thud for me lol.
I think Deep Breath has the right idea, but the execution of it went wrong imo. Capaldi and the writers have no problem balancing the usual Doctor charm with the more unique characteristics of Twelve's personality and arc throughout the rest of that season, even in the couple episodes that immediately followed. But in Deep Breath it just feels like they leaned a little too far in one direction. There was a certain aggressive hostility he has toward everyone that just isn't really necessary. Especially since the whole point of the ending is "I'm still the same Doctor just with an older not-obviously-your-boyfriend face." The problem wasn't the Doctor is mysterious again or isn't young anymore, it's just that he seemed to go out of his way to be a dick. It works fine the rest of the season when that kind of passive aggressive toxicity becomes the central dynamic of his and Clara's relationship, but I think Moffat laid it on just too thick in this first outing.
I think Deep Breath has the right idea, but the execution of it went wrong imo. Capaldi and the writers have no problem balancing the usual Doctor charm with the more unique characteristics of Twelve's personality and arc throughout the rest of that season, even in the couple episodes that immediately followed. But in Deep Breath it just feels like they leaned a little too far in one direction. There was a certain aggressive hostility he has toward everyone that just isn't really necessary. Especially since the whole point of the ending is "I'm still the same Doctor just with an older not-obviously-your-boyfriend face." The problem wasn't the Doctor is mysterious again or isn't young anymore, it's just that he seemed to go out of his way to be a dick. It works fine the rest of the season when that kind of passive aggressive toxicity becomes the central dynamic of his and Clara's relationship, but I think Moffat laid it on just too thick in this first outing.
OP
OP
We know that he was sounded out about series 11, but he was too busy.
Ugh yeah the lack of Mathieson really does bum me out. I really hope he gets to write another one someday.
It does come about regularly, but there was a very specific rumour about Tennant with timing and everything attached in the last month or two. It was printed by the Mirror, who have a good Who rumour track record, and when in the wake of it Tennant was asked if he'd come back (just three weeks ago), he said...
"Who knows? People ask me this… like it's my decision when I'll just stroll back on set on Doctor Who and go, 'Right! Turn over! Here I am!' – it doesn't really work like that.
Jodie, Peter and Matt are all mates now. It would be wonderful to be on set with them. Chris … I don't know as well, but I'm a huge admirer of him and I've always enjoyed meeting him, so it'd be fun if we were all on set together. It's not for me to say. The more I speculate, the more I'll end up getting myself in trouble…"
So I think that shit is a lock sooner rather than later, basically. IIRC the rumour was that there'd be an episode either Christmas day or New Years Day this year, then in 2020 the holiday special would be a multi-Doc affair.
Ah, that last bit I hadn't heard before, but the quoted part I believe is almost word for word what he'd said in the End of Time interview segment... unless that is his rehearsed answer for every time he's asked about it!
Though hasn't the 2020 special already been shot as part of the S12 filming block? People speculated that it might be for Christmas this year or NYD next year, but it seems like S12 is just going to flat out start on NYD with episode 1 instead of a full-fledged special. In which case whatever special they filmed as part of the S12 production maybe is being held for all the way in Christmas 2020?
OP
OP
Interesting news- someone on Gallifrey Base found out Maxine Alderton's CV, and she's listed as a "Core Writer" on series 13, in addition to her commission on series 12.
We've not seen this job title before, but it suggests to me that Chibnall's looking to try a writer's room again, having abandoned the idea in series 11's pre-production stages.
We've not seen this job title before, but it suggests to me that Chibnall's looking to try a writer's room again, having abandoned the idea in series 11's pre-production stages.
OP
OP
That always seemed likely- there wasn't anything to those Chaos In Cardiff rumours.
Davies had four series and specials, and Moffat had six series- I never thought Chibnall would check out after two.
Who would have thought that five-year plan meant one year with just one episode
Hmm. What if THAT is the source of the Tennant rumor? He and Jodie were just together for that charity album after all.
Sophie Aldrid's book makes me want to see Ace meet Jodi's Doctor at some point.
The one I've always wanted, especially now it's back on air (albeit on a different channel), is Red Dwarf. It has always made so much sense. alas.
Clearly it's just a story that hasn't been told yet.
(Heck, you could tell one where the Doc caused the Stasis Leak to try to stop some Big Bad without affecting either continuity hugely)
Weren't those early series' of Dwarf the same special effects/miniatures team as 80s Who?
I think it'd be particularly good now because almost all the best Red Dwarf guest stars are when a women comes in and tears the laddish dynamic of the group to pieces in one way or another. I actually feel like now the 'profile' of Doctor Who has fallen a bit compared to the RTD/Moffat years might also make it a bit more likely to happen one day. We hope.
I think it'd be particularly good now because almost all the best Red Dwarf guest stars are when a women comes in and tears the laddish dynamic of the group to pieces in one way or another. I actually feel like now the 'profile' of Doctor Who has fallen a bit compared to the RTD/Moffat years might also make it a bit more likely to happen one day. We hope.
hopefully they are just airing tomorrow's trailer during talking dead or something
OP
OP
What? I thought they'd wrapped ages ago.
This filming schedule has lasted about a month longer than the series 11 one did.
Last edited:
looks like first ep on jan 1, second on Jan 4
"A BBC One source said: "It's going to be huge. The scale is just epic. No one will be disappointed."
I just can't be excited with the same boring companions being back all season.
I can't say I have much faith in this season being any good after last season but we'll see, maybe I'll be surprised.
After accidentally posting in the old thread...:
So, er, to dredge up a post from the other end of the year... The Airzone Solution is now on Amazon Prime. If you dare.
So, er, to dredge up a post from the other end of the year... The Airzone Solution is now on Amazon Prime. If you dare.
Hmmm, i still need to finish season 11. I got eight episodes in and gave up out of boredom. I really, really hope the writing and villains are better this time.
I'll believe it when I can actually see the episodes. I've still only seen The Woman Who Fell To Earth and they've in no way made the rest of the season accessible to me anywhere I could watch it without paying an absurd amount of money.
Fingers crossed Chibnall gets his shit together though, Jodie deserves a good run.
Series 11 is worth watching for Rosa and Demons of the Punjab