Doctor Strange was originally planned for WandaVision finale

[LinkStrikesBack]

If she felt guilty, why did she commit the same crime with Agatha before leaving town? She took away a person's free will and didn't blink.

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Because unlike the rest of the town, Agatha was a direct threat. She'd already seen memories of Agathas and Agatha straight said that she goes around absorbing magic from other people. Even if she was feeling guilty, she still had to make sure Agatha couldn't do that again to anyone else. That means she had two real options, the first being to outright kill her while she was defenseless, the second to be what she did. Maybe killing her would have been a mercy, but they're not about to have ostensibly leading heroes in the MCU murdering in cold blood.

 

[Maledict]

Wanda was, since her debut in Age of Ultion, always portrait as an Anit-Hero. She tries to do good things, but she always ends of creating trouble unwillingly. I hope, she keeps this role.

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One of the problems I have with Civil War, and this portrayal of Wanda, are the events at the start of civil war.

If Wanda wasn't there to redirect the bomb, hundreds of people would have died instead of the few that did. The *entire* portrayal of that incident and how everyone reacted to it was wrong and felt off. It was as if the writers didn't want to actually show a hero doing something bad or careless, so they had to give her a reason for levelling an office block. And that removes all the tension and the moral quandry from what happened.

 

[Croc Man]

He should have turned up during the credits just to say "my work is done here" before Monica says he didn't do anything.

 

[Idde]

Halfway through the season she literally leaves her bubble to tell SWORD to leave her alone then goes back to holding a town hostage.

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Admittedly, this is a bit messy. But feels like Wanda goes into a sort of psychosis, or has some delusional disorder. And at different points during psychosis or delusional disorder people can tell what's real (when Wanda steps out of the bubble because her life there is threatened) and can't tell what's real. (When she retreats back into the reality she created). Or it could be that she was being protective of her perfect reality, without being aware she created it and was mind controlling those people. I can't really recall the specific instances, but it's shown a couple of times Wanda isn't aware she's controlling them, so she probably doesn't consciously know she is holding the town hostage. When Agnes initially asked Wanda how she created the Hex Wanda says she doesn't really know.

Only after reliving the trauma through what Agnes put her through in those flashbacks (what basically amounts to therapy) does Wanda start to come out of the psychosis. It's at that point she is consciously becoming aware of the mind control. And it's at that point she comes to the conclusion she has to choose between keeping the Hex intact and her family alive, or releasing the people of Westview.

If she felt guilty, why did she commit the same crime with Agatha before leaving town? She took away a person's free will and didn't blink.

She's an antihero, like the Punisher. I think people are struggling to accept this. It's actually liberating for her character to be so mercilessly selfish, but even the writers and actress are scared to admit it, even though the writing clearly supports this idea.

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There's a difference between subconsciously enslaving innocent peoples minds and putting someone who is willfully trying to hurt/kill you in a mind prison. Especially when it comes to feeling guilt.

 

[cognizant]

Because unlike the rest of the town, Agatha was a direct threat. She'd already seen memories of Agathas and Agatha straight said that she goes around absorbing magic from other people. Even if she was feeling guilty, she still had to make sure Agatha couldn't do that again to anyone else. That means she had two real options, the first being to outright kill her while she was defenseless, the second to be what she did. Maybe killing her would have been a mercy, but they're not about to have ostensibly leading heroes in the MCU murdering in cold blood.

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Sorry, but that's hilarious. Wanda was more of a threat to that town than Agatha ever was.

Besides, the writers could easily come up with a third choice to deal with her, they're writers, that's their job. But brainwashing her was the easiest, despite how horrific it is.

They could have given Wanda a new ability, considering she just got a power-up, maybe she could have nullified Agatha's powers. Wanda could have even taken her along with her, that could have been cool. The same vibe we see with Thor and a disgruntled Loki.

 

[viskod]

The commercial thing was a good idea. I think they should have at least let him cameo in one commercial later in the show where the tone of the commercial is a hint to Wanda from Strange saying "Hey. You need to stop this shit."

 

[Kinthey]

Would strange really be a "white savior" when MCU Wanda is also white?

 

[LinkStrikesBack]

Sorry, but that's hilarious. Wanda was more of a threat to that town than Agatha ever was.

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Not to the town, to Wanda and other magic users.

That you're suggesting huge Deus Ex Machinas of new powers out of nowhere instead of the powers we know Wanda has, and completely out of character behaviour just reinforces that they were the only choices there to her.

 

[MisterHero]

So Dr. Strange isn't allowed to teach Wanda?

So she can run amok like she did?

Everyone's fine with this?

 

[Dr. Dr. Dogtooth]

So Dr. Strange isn't allowed to teach Wanda?

So she can run amok like she did?

Everyone's fine with this?

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The point isn't, that Dr. Strange can't teach Wanda, but that Wanda shouldn't have need "saving" from a men in her own story. Instead in WandaVision she learned stuff on her own, while fighting a villain and her own grief. They will properly have Wanda asking Dr. Strange for guidance, since he is the only magician, she knows about.

Sorry, but that's hilarious. Wanda was more of a threat to that town than Agatha ever was.

Besides, the writers could easily come up with a third choice to deal with her, they're writers, that's their job. But brainwashing her was the easiest, despite how horrific it is.

They could have given Wanda a new ability, considering she just got a power-up, maybe she could have nullified Agatha's powers. Wanda could have even taken her along with her, that could have been cool. The same vibe we see with Thor and a disgruntled Loki.

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Wanda is an Anti-Hero. It is a disturbing option, but it fits her character.

 

[Fat4all]

he didn't need to be there

 

[MetalMagus]

I think people griping about Wanda getting seemingly getting absolved by focusing on Monica's line overlook one big context about what Wanda does - she has to essentially kill her children. Which, is bit of HUGE ask. Like, think of a story in fiction where a protaganist has to kill thier kids and either doesn't go insane or is punished terribly for making that decision.

I get that WE know that Tommy and Billy are guaranteed to come back, but she doesn't.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

the commercial thing could've been pretty cool

though I think what they ended up with worked better for the show

they can talk around that bit with wanda and monica all they want, the execution was ass. I'm sure we'll deal with wanda's guilt going forward but that scene was bad

 

[Maledict]

I think people griping about Wanda getting seemingly getting absolved by focusing on Monica's line overlook one big context about what Wanda does - she has to essentially kill her children. Which, is bit of HUGE ask. Like, think of a story in fiction where a protaganist has to kill thier kids and either doesn't go insane or is punished terribly for making that decision.

I get that WE know that Tommy and Billy are guaranteed to come back, but she doesn't.

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I think the problem here is she was their mother for 3 days. I don't deny that parents have an immediate and massive bond with their children, but she was pregnant for a single day and they went through 10 years in two days.

You can't in any way really consider that the same bond as a normal parent and child.

 

[Logan Hardy]

I understand the reason feige but it would have been so hype , just like it would have been if war Machine had a cameo on the finale of captain america and the winter Soldier.

 

[astro]

So are they waiting to have the white male savior teach her how to use her powers in Multiverse of Madness? lol

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Really don't need to g this far with it... Strange is the Sorcerer Supreme, him guiding Wanda makes sense. That doesn't mean he'll be shown as a saviour, just a guide. We'll have to wait and see how they handle it, but them literally saying they wanted to avoid him being the white saviour figure here is a pretty good sign they will avoid it.

 

[MillionIII]

Part of the charm of the MCU is having crossover characters and they somehow made it sound like a bad thing

 

[Qikz]

I don't really feel that the strongest sorcerer on earth turning up would be a white male savior thing. Wanda has absolutely no idea how to control her newer chaos powers properly, she needs some kind of guide and who better to teach her than the sorcerer supreme. I guess this will be what Doctor Strange 2 is more about.

 

[Parthenios]

Cutting Strange is probably another reason why the finale felt off. No explanation of the commercials (specifically, the Nexus is mentioned but never explained, also they all used the same cast which seemed to be leading to something), and Agatha ends up playing both villain and therapist (when the therapy role would have probably been what Strange did).

 

[JustinBB7]

I think they made a mistake. Would have been super hype to see Dr. Strange in a post-credit scene.

I am sure they could have written him like "Wanda, we need to talk/work together" rather than having him "train" or "save" her or whatever.

Also, I wanted Mephisto you cowards!

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I agree, what the originally planned sounded way better honestly. At least post-credit would have been fine. Entire rewrite seems why it got a bit messy near the end and just felt off to me.

 

[Maledict]

Cutting Strange is probably another reason why the finale felt off. No explanation of the commercials (specifically, the Nexus is mentioned but never explained, also they all used the same cast which seemed to be leading to something), and Agatha ends up playing both villain and therapist (when the therapy role would have probably been what Strange did).

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I think I disagree here. Making Agatha purely villain would really reduce her character. TBH I think they went too far with the "cackling evil persona" at the end anyways. Her being sympathetic to Wanda's lack of control and wanting her power made her more interesting. If she was just pure evil and didn't have that other aspect of her she'd be a terrible villain. even for a series which has a lot of bad vilains!

 

[Voytek]

Strange not showing up to this big magical event taking place not that far from his home is the weirder move. The fuck are you doing Steven? Aren't you like suppose to be watching out for this kinda thing?

 

[krazen]

While I don't think they stuck to the landing, not having Strange there worked 100%. Wandavision was a character piece, so throwing in Strange to literally 'save' Wanda would have distracted from all of that and cut Vision's sacrifice in bringing his wife back from the brink

That said, I do have issues with the ending as people are mentioning here. It felt like the pieces were there, but just written badly. Like the actress said, who's going to take down one of the most powerful people on earth currently, and her having to 'hide' until she knew how to work through her power/in shame/to make atonement. But they fucked up that Monica 'They don't know...' which just made it fall apart tonally since it set up her actions as heroic which they weren't.

 

[Tace]

Would've been awesome to see Strange, but Feige ,as usual, made the right call

 

[BFIB]

Strange wasn't needed, but I would had liked to see him appear in the post credits scene to tell Wanda the danger she's caused opening the multiverse using the Darkhold.

 

[Jahranimo]

While on the surface this is good, I'm still a little disappointed in how Monica was handled in this last episode. Still really liked the show but the ending...

 

[Foltzie]

I think the problem here is she was their mother for 3 days. I don't deny that parents have an immediate and massive bond with their children, but she was pregnant for a single day and they went through 10 years in two days.

You can't in any way really consider that the same bond as a normal parent and child.

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Tell that to my wife who started bawling when she saw Wanda and Vision putting the kids to bed.

The last episode was clunky, but it had the right ingredients.

 

[Watchtower]

Part of the charm of the MCU is having crossover characters and they somehow made it sound like a bad thing

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Spellman mentioned something similar, that they asked if they could insert Spidey into the last episode of FAWS and was told he can't just "nerd out."

Say what you will about the MCU, Marvel seems to actually be trying to tell good meaningful stories with these characters rather than just popping confetti and streamers whenever they can. WandaVision is ultimately supposed to be a story about Wanda going through her grief/trauma and through it learning that she is the Scarlet Witch. They made the right call not adding in Dr. Strange, because he takes over the entire narrative the moment he steps in. Now it's no longer a story about Wanda's grief, it's about setting up Dr. Strange 2. Same thing with not actually making Evan Peters Fox Quicksilver; doing that means the story's no longer about Wanda's grief, it's about setting up X-Men.

 

[KillstealWolf]

Hey would you look at that, allowing your own show characters to be the star of the show and not have someone from another part of the franchise come in at the last minute and steal the spotlight.

If only other shows could do the same thing (Looking at you, Mandalorian).

 

[Cruxist]

I think it would've been a nice balance to have the commercials be from Strange and then still have the ending play out as it did. Would've been a good way to show he was at least aware of the Hex, instead of being conspicuously absent from the biggest magic event we've seen. No need to have him show up right at the end to say "I was sending the commercials, Wanda. Now join me!"

 

[Bengraven]

A lot of us were expecting always felt the commercials

Cutting Strange is probably another reason why the finale felt off. No explanation of the commercials (specifically, the Nexus is mentioned but never explained, also they all used the same cast which seemed to be leading to something), and Agatha ends up playing both villain and therapist (when the therapy role would have probably been what Strange did).

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I think what's both brilliant and frustrating about these shows is how they handle massive cuts.

There felt like something is missing from both shows and finding out later that it was due to cut content, whether its the rabbit reveal or Strange or the virus plot from FaWS feels like a loss. But also brilliant how we didn't know there were "supposed" to be this way.

It's like those films or anime where someone loses their memories but suddenly starts to cry for no reason at all in reaction to something.

 

[MillionIII]

Spellman mentioned something similar, that they asked if they could insert Spidey into the last episode of FAWS and was told he can't just "nerd out."

Say what you will about the MCU, Marvel seems to actually be trying to tell good meaningful stories with these characters rather than just popping confetti and streamers whenever they can. WandaVision is ultimately supposed to be a story about Wanda going through her grief/trauma and through it learning that she is the Scarlet Witch. They made the right call not adding in Dr. Strange, because he takes over the entire narrative the moment he steps in. Now it's no longer a story about Wanda's grief, it's about setting up Dr. Strange 2. Same thing with not actually making Evan Peters Fox Quicksilver; doing that means the story's no longer about Wanda's grief, it's about setting up X-Men.

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We can agree to disagree, if this was a comic book story Dr.strange popping up wouldn't be weird at all. Those mcu shows are not that deep, at the end of the day those phases are connected to set up a bigger story in that universe. I think that covid made it hard to bring him so they made up some excuse.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

She feels guilty for mind fucking an entire town, but not so much for doing the same to Agnes before flying off.

The comparisons to Banner make me laugh. Does Banner ever awaken halfway through a rampage, pause, then go "nah, fuck it, I'm gonna continue being Hulk and fuck more shit up."

Nobody in that thread was asking Monica and SWORD to physically attempt to stop Wanda flying off, but a simple statement indicting her would have been responsible behaviour considering their fucking job titles.

"Wanda, I get why you did it, but this is wrong. You need to stay and help us make this right."

Then Wanda can explain she needs to control her power, and rhetorically ask if SWORD is gonna stop her, before flying away.

But no, instead the ending of the show is directed like the end of The Dark Knight LOL...

EDIT: also, I love the fact that Monica gets super powers for the first time in her life and shows ZERO EMOTION about that for the entire show. What a great origin story. Fuck's sake...

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This is pretty much my view too. It's how the showrunner chose to frame things, not so much the actions of the characters (save Monica, cuz that line, woof).

I get that this in an ongoing universe, but at the end of the show, Wanda is pretty much a villain. She's tortured a town, and been driven off (though she gets one more shot in at the character who despite evil motives, was responsible for saving everyone).

How I feel about it long term depends on where they go from here, but as an ending to a series, it was very off. Despite this, I adore the show.

 

[Idde]

We can agree to disagree, if this was a comic book story Dr.strange popping up wouldn't be weird at all. Those mcu shows are not that deep, at the end of the day those phases are connected to set up a bigger story in that universe. I think that covid made it hard to bring him so they made up some excuse.

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If you listen to Mackie talk about Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and how Spellman went about tackling what it means to be a black man in the US, and if you listen to Olsen talk about the mental health aspects of WandaVision; I think Marvel is really trying to be that deep. Not always succeeding, but definitely trying.

 

[Z-Beat]

Yeah I don't really get the "She got off easy" either. It's not like the townspeople went "we're cool." They've been stuck in sitcom hell for weeks. Most of them seemed shellshocked. I mean in the brief time they were released they were basically like "please let us die"

 

[The Artisan]

Part of the charm of the MCU is having crossover characters and they somehow made it sound like a bad thing

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I remember watching Thor Ragnarok for the first time in a theater and when they showed up in New York I thought...will there be a Dr. Strange cameo? Before I knew it, there was. I think HISHE got it right, joking aside; it would have made sense to have Strange involved in the plot somehow. If not show up to Westview, then at least let the viewer see what he is up to and that he's made aware of what Wanda is doing. I don't think his involvement would feel out of place especially given the fact that Agatha mentions him directly.

 

[krazen]

We can agree to disagree, if this was a comic book story Dr.strange popping up wouldn't be weird at all. Those mcu shows are not that deep, at the end of the day those phases are connected to set up a bigger story in that universe. I think that covid made it hard to bring him so they made up some excuse.

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I want to push back on this a bit. Most superhero comics have self contained arcs and stories. Obviously by the nature of a unified universe characters pop into various storylines but that's usually in service of the larger story. Like Hells Kitchen is a fifteen minute train ride from Spidey's queens, but Spidey isn't there for 95% of the time Daredevil's dealing with some real evil supervillian shit. Wolverine's has hijinks with the entirety of the Marvel comic universe because the writers like him and have cool storyline ideas for him, but for all of Apocalypse's crazy earth or dimension ending schemes it feels like the X-men are the only ones around to deal, lol. You have to set these things up.

While not 'deep' Huge comic line crossing events are a rarity, and similar to MCU take time to build up to. If it's characters popping in each other's storylines randomy it does cheapen the story. You get to the point it's a bunch of Deus Ex Machina third acts where all that crazy stakes and action in Acts 1 & 2 gets instantly resolved because Captain Marvel was drinking a latte at the Starbucks next door to where the villain was announcing their masterstroke.

 

[Kaelan]

A lot of us were expecting always felt the commercials


I think what's both brilliant and frustrating about these shows is how they handle massive cuts.

There felt like something is missing from both shows and finding out later that it was due to cut content, whether its the rabbit reveal or Strange or the virus plot from FaWS feels like a loss. But also brilliant how we didn't know there were "supposed" to be this way.

It's like those films or anime where someone loses their memories but suddenly starts to cry for no reason at all in reaction to something.

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The director already debunked the virus plot line in FaWS

 

[Kinthey]

Kind of funny how the Mandalorian did the exact opposite.

I think an appearance by strange would have been received really well, and after all you don't need to write it in a way where he swoops in and fixes everything by himself

 

[Richiek]

Part of the charm of the MCU is having crossover characters and they somehow made it sound like a bad thing

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We already had a bunch of crossover characters with Monica, Jimmy and Darcy.

 

[MillionIII]

I remember watching Thor Ragnarok for the first time in a theater and when they showed up in New York I thought...will there be a Dr. Strange cameo? Before I knew it, there was. I think HISHE got it right, joking aside; it would have made sense to have Strange involved in the plot somehow. If not show up to Westview, then at least let the viewer see what he is up to and that he's made aware of what Wanda is doing. I don't think his involvement would feel out of place especially given the fact that Agatha mentions him directly.

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Yup I mean we had Tony in Spider-man homecoming, strange in ragnarok, Falcon in ant-man, black panther in winter soldier etc that's what I like about the MCU; showing that those people interact with one another before the big alien shows up.

 

[HardRojo]

I cursed at the screen when she said, "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them", as touching music played.

What a blunder, don't sell me on guilt now.

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Yeah, like ok I get it she felt guilty as hell and had to escape, but that line was so fucking terrible. Laughable even.

 

[Falchion]

I can see why they pulled him, I do wish the show had more of the other Marvel characters though.

 

[onyx]

It didn't have be Dr Strange. They could have changed it to be another one if the wizards that are supposed to monitor for such events. There were a lot of them in End Game and some were women.

That wizard could have mentioned Strange.

I cursed at the screen when she said, "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them", as touching music played.

What a blunder, don't sell me on guilt now.

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Yeah, that line was bad. There were kids in that town too. Who knows how much lasting trauma everyone in that town will have.

She flew away without anyone even wagging a finger. Because it's a story of grief I guess her tears excuses her crime.

 

[Heretic Kazuma]

Well that certainly explains some interviews with the actors and actresses. They were asked if WandaVision ended with an event similar to Mandalorian's S2, and they pretty much hinted with a resounding yes -- wait and see! And then nothing when it aired, LOL.

 

[gfbandito]

also, I love the fact that Monica gets super powers for the first time in her life and shows ZERO EMOTION about that for the entire show. What a great origin story. Fuck's sake...

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I might've agreed with this had I not just watched Captain Marvel. Monica hung out with shapeshifting aliens and told her mom to go wreck shit in space when she was a little girl. Even in her brainwashed state in Wandavision, she didn't seem too phased at that house going ape shit while she helped suddenly-pregnant Wanda give birth.

They already established Monica just rolls with the craziness, getting powers from walking through a hex is prolly the least craziest thing that has happened to her up to this point.

 

[cognizant]

I might've agreed with this had I not just watched Captain Marvel. Monica hung out with shapeshifting aliens and told her mom to go wreck shit in space when she was a little girl. Even in her brainwashed state in Wandavision, she didn't seem too phased at that house going ape shit while she helped suddenly-pregnant Wanda give birth.

They already established Monica just rolls with the craziness, getting powers from walking through a hex is prolly the least craziest thing that has happened to her up to this point.

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Although I get what you're saying, I still found it really anticlimactic and it did the character no favours. A hero's origin is meant to be special and defines their life going forward. Monica just walks through a barrier, gets freaky powers and doesn't acknowledge what happened at all.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

DR. Strange 2 better start off with one of those weird ass commercials.

 

[Anth0ny]

You don't want to overshadow Wanda, sure…. But I feel like that logic could be used against every post credits scene that teases what's next in the MCU.

I came out of Antman and the Wasp only thinking of that post credits scene.

 

[Wag]

I cursed at the screen when she said, "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them", as touching music played.

What a blunder, don't sell me on guilt now.

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Yeah, I was thinking, "Those people lost their will to choose and were held prisoner".