I kept thinking it looked like Wonder Woman/an Amazonian but knew that that couldn't be the case.
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Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness |OT| No, more mutants. (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter ZeoVGM
- Start date
Sooo….
616 wanda is/was the only wanda that's also the scarlet witch right? It seemed like from the movie there was only 1 in the multiverse, which would also explain why the Illuminati underestimated her (we will take care of your little witch)
616 wanda is/was the only wanda that's also the scarlet witch right? It seemed like from the movie there was only 1 in the multiverse, which would also explain why the Illuminati underestimated her (we will take care of your little witch)
Even if she could have escaped the mountain, they showed us midway through the film what happens to a person who destroyed a book enchanted with the spells put in the darkhold, and she just destroyed all of them everywhere and the original source. She should be dead dead.
seems that way, only 1 scarlet witch and 1 America in the whole multiverse
Or maybe that person died because she touched the book while having no magical power? Is there another instance in the movie in which it shows ordinary people touching the book?
Some Raimi stuff I'm unsure about if it's him or not:
-Is the car somewhere in the movie?
-The decision that everyone in the universe with the Illuminati wears hats and suits feels like a Raimi decision - is it?
-While they fall through all those universes there is one that looks like a filtered version of the Darkman/Spider-Man synapses shot but I'm not entirely sure. Did someone catch that?
-Is the car somewhere in the movie?
-The decision that everyone in the universe with the Illuminati wears hats and suits feels like a Raimi decision - is it?
-While they fall through all those universes there is one that looks like a filtered version of the Darkman/Spider-Man synapses shot but I'm not entirely sure. Did someone catch that?
I was expecting a lot more multiverses. But I enjoy that Phase 4 truly is allowing directors to do their own thing tonally and directorial wise with these projects. The only ones remotely similar in tone to be Black Widow, Winter Falcon, and No Way Home. Everything else seems refreshing and interesting while having it's roots firmly planted in what's happened before.
I saw the Oldsmobile 88 floating in the 838 city after it all went to hell.
Also I agree with the earlier post that the statue in the Illuminati hall did look like Wonder Woman. But probably was another Cap. marvel.
Also I agree with the earlier post that the statue in the Illuminati hall did look like Wonder Woman. But probably was another Cap. marvel.
I feel like there's a lot to chew on in the movie about mental health. That brief conversation Strange had with the other MD doctor in the church did a good job laying out the movie's themes/ideas in hindsight. Guy's clearing hanging on by a thread, but it's hard to function when you have an extreme variation of survivor's guilt while heroes like Strange are seemingly able to shrug it off (which ties in to him meeting the Illuminati and realizing they're living a lie). One can argue Strange's arc in the movie is basically learning how to feel empathy for others, including himself, and processing grief. Then you have Wanda who was scarred/broken nearly her entire life, finally snapped, and went so beyond the point of no return there was no way to really save her.
I can understand why reactions are so all over the place. Movie brings up a lot of questions that don't have easy or "happy" answers. Honestly thought that was kind of refreshing.
I can understand why reactions are so all over the place. Movie brings up a lot of questions that don't have easy or "happy" answers. Honestly thought that was kind of refreshing.
I think I missed a logic step here, right? She was a person at Kama Taj at a pivotal moment for defending the world, she was a magician, correct? Why wouldn't she have magic power.
Did I forget/miss wanda stealing peoples magic at that point?
In either case, she explicitly wouldn't let Wong do it, presumably because they were both aware that it was effectively suicide. It doesn't make much sense to refuse to let Wong destroy it if still having magic or not is the defining step in being able to do it safely, because he certainly still did.
After 13 years of ongoing stories it is definitely the first film in the MCU I can think of that decided to entirely eschew its history of presenting the characters as buddy-buddy and likable rather than explicitly flawed people you're not supposed to see as extensions of yourself. Really I should've expected this the moment the movie opens with Defender Strange electing to kill Chavez because his typical "knows best" attitude makes him assume the multiverse would fall apart if the demon seized her.
I expected a lot of things out of this film, mostly in terms of further franchise building. The last thing I expected was a film that dug into how its characters are actually going through things and the subsequent consequences of that.
It was so...long....with an obscene amount of that just America screaming and running away from cgi.
The whiplash from WV will be intense coming from that film....Wandas character kind of did the thing WV was praised for not doing. The end of that show feels particularly meaningless in light of the lengths she goes to here, which is cartoonishly evil. And of course it revolves around a young child that cant control their powers, yada yada, rinse and repeat.
It feels like Marvel is weirdly against utilizing their own universe. Loki's definition of the multiverse doesnt make sense with this one's at all. White Vision sure could've done....something? I guess Wandas not a Nexus Point despite the references in WV? There's making standalone films and then there's punishing fans for paying attention to the world you create and watching so many figures sitting on their hands.
The whiplash from WV will be intense coming from that film....Wandas character kind of did the thing WV was praised for not doing. The end of that show feels particularly meaningless in light of the lengths she goes to here, which is cartoonishly evil. And of course it revolves around a young child that cant control their powers, yada yada, rinse and repeat.
It feels like Marvel is weirdly against utilizing their own universe. Loki's definition of the multiverse doesnt make sense with this one's at all. White Vision sure could've done....something? I guess Wandas not a Nexus Point despite the references in WV? There's making standalone films and then there's punishing fans for paying attention to the world you create and watching so many figures sitting on their hands.
I was expecting Tom Cruise to show up as the 818 version of Tony Stark (edit: I was disappointed that he didn't show up). I definitely did not expect John Krasinski as Reed Richards (I wasn't expecting Reed Richards at all in this movie, really); ditto for Anson Mount reprising his role as Black Bolt from the Inhumans TV show. I also wasn't expecting the X-Men TAS theme to play at all, but man, I'm glad it did.
I'm too lazy to make my own memes, but here's what I'd use for MoM "spoilers without context".
I'm too lazy to make my own memes, but here's what I'd use for MoM "spoilers without context".
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Well Marvel has their own look alike - power Princess
Zarda (Mephisto's Simulacrum) (Earth-616)
7 appearance(s) of Zarda (Mephisto's Simulacrum) (Earth-616) 18 image(s) of Zarda (Mephisto's Simulacrum) (Earth-616) 1 victim(s) killed by Zarda (Mephisto's Simulacrum) (Earth-616)
marvel.fandom.com
Also I really liked they made Reed Richards more like Gumby like a sentient silly putty with T-1000 powers, rather than a very stretchy flesh and blood person.
It did make me think that it almost makes sense for Shang-Chi to be hanging out at Kamar-Taj or maybe we see Ned become a student since he knows how to make portals and his family had known how to use magic. Kamar-Taj having magically gifted or magic adjacent people hanging out there opens up an interesting avenue that I didn't think of before.
Loki's multiverse doesn't mesh with any of the others in the MCU, which is why Loki hasn't been referenced in other works, even the three post-Loki that heavily reference multiverses.
Loki feels like it's in that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. limbo where it's technically canon but is it really? and then one day it's not.
the best way to make them mad is to argue that their opponent also gets the same amount of preptime
I think she'd wreck him. She was able to slow him down with 5 stones while simultaneously destroying the 6th, and that was pre-Scarlet Witch.
Ugh, I did not like this movie and am really disappointed with Marvel recently. I was a huge fan of all of the MCU for phases 1-3, but phase 4 is not really doing it for me and this movie really highlighted it.
It was fine. Wanda was fine. Strange was fine. The action was fine. America Chavez was fine.
But I'm tired of movies where nothing seems to really happen. The world-building just feels so low quality now, and these characters can't carry the movies for me now.
Captain America: Civil War - Shit happened. Avengers broke up. People chose sides and allegiances.
Thor Ragnarok - Shit happened. Thor's hammer gone. Asgard destroyed. Loki sorta a good guy?
Black Panther - Shit happened. We saw an entire new part of the world and learned about vibranium.
Avengers Infinity War + Endgame - Shit happened.
Spiderman - Far From Home and No Way Home both had shit happen.
But damn, I feel like Marvel is just on a run of sortof meaningless movies. What really happened here in terms of the broader universe? Wanda (presumably) killed herself? We saw the illuminati for all of 20 minutes? Dark magic is dark?
Biggest thing was just America Chavez and Strange now teamed up, giving us the second group that can traverse the multiverse (first being TVA + Loki).
Phases 1, 2, and 3 felt like they were gradually expanding the MCU with a clear direction in mind. So far, Phase 4 feels like it's just expanding the universe with no real directionality.
It was fine. Wanda was fine. Strange was fine. The action was fine. America Chavez was fine.
But I'm tired of movies where nothing seems to really happen. The world-building just feels so low quality now, and these characters can't carry the movies for me now.
Captain America: Civil War - Shit happened. Avengers broke up. People chose sides and allegiances.
Thor Ragnarok - Shit happened. Thor's hammer gone. Asgard destroyed. Loki sorta a good guy?
Black Panther - Shit happened. We saw an entire new part of the world and learned about vibranium.
Avengers Infinity War + Endgame - Shit happened.
Spiderman - Far From Home and No Way Home both had shit happen.
But damn, I feel like Marvel is just on a run of sortof meaningless movies. What really happened here in terms of the broader universe? Wanda (presumably) killed herself? We saw the illuminati for all of 20 minutes? Dark magic is dark?
Biggest thing was just America Chavez and Strange now teamed up, giving us the second group that can traverse the multiverse (first being TVA + Loki).
Phases 1, 2, and 3 felt like they were gradually expanding the MCU with a clear direction in mind. So far, Phase 4 feels like it's just expanding the universe with no real directionality.
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Doctor Strange gonna need them Sam Fisher goggles now. That's new.
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Its been a while since I last watched them, but what happened in Homecoming and Far from Home?
Incursions got introduced, shit went haywire in 838 which will probably come back to bite 616 in the ass, and now 616 has someone who can travel the multiverse. This will probably be a bigger film once we have more pieces laid out
Homecoming, nothing really. A standard intro movie for Tom Holland's Spider-Man.
Far From Home essentially told the story of what happened to Tony Stark's empire after Endgame. It also had a lot of teasers (Mysterio claimed to be from another universe). MJ found out that Peter Parker was Spider-Man. The post-credits scene was "outing" Peter Parker as Spider-Man.
Not saying it was the biggest "shit happened" movie, but at least the MCU progressed.
This movie felt like it just didn't have any progress other than "Wanda died, and America Chavez is with Strange now." And neither of those are particularly huge.
I'm waiting for Marvel to give me a reason to care about the multiverse.
Loki felt like they were so close, exploring the nihilism of what matters in the infinite world, the very beginning of nexus beings like Kang, the idea that there are powers that have mastered and subdued the multiverse.
But right now, the characters that are "multiversal characters" are just uninteresting and feel strangely disconnected from the broader MCU. I'd go so far as to say that's even been Dr Strange's character design and writing - he's just disconnected and above the petty squabbles of normal superheroes.
I hope so, but I wish they would stop hiding it.
We saw Thanos and the infinity stones way before Avengers: Infinity War. Thor 2, Guardians of the Galaxy 1, the first two Avengers movies, the original Dr Strange.
Those little pieces gave direction of where to focus. You knew the characters, powers, and allegiances to care about as you followed the movies.
Without those pieces now, I'm left scratching my head:
- Should I care about the Illuminati at all? Or was this just a 20-minute gag?
- Should I care about evil Strange at all? Or was this just a warning about dark spellbook corruption?
- Should I care about the fact that multiverses have numbers? Is there a multiverse number 37828950285409825? Which multiverses should I care about (beyond the one we're in)?
The movie really emphasizes how mulitverse and magic really allows you to make things up to create or solve any situation. I liked some of the horror elements and direction but as a film it is definitely closer to the bottom tier of MCU movies due to the non-engaging plot.
Wow, I just
...Probably not? It's comicbook shit. Outside of that point, Marvel's obviously heading towards a direction where you can just pick an choose which storylines you wanna follow and which content you wanna consume.
I just remembered the magical music fight.
That was weird. Slightly less weird when I saw Danny Elfman did the music, but still felt like it came out of nowhere.
That was weird. Slightly less weird when I saw Danny Elfman did the music, but still felt like it came out of nowhere.
You're talking about movies starting at the end of phase 2 and into phase 3.
Think about where we're at in terms of a reset - we're in a new phase 1. Groundwork is being laid, but the threat won't be established for a bit.
????????????????????
Wanda is like one of their heaviest hitters. Her dying is hugely impactful to the power capacity that the Avengers have. Spider-man dying would be an infinitely smaller deal than Wanda dying. And on that note, you count peter's high school girlfriend finding out his identity to be progress, but wanda dying isn't?????
And given how the multiverse bullshit is seems to be the next thing that the MCU is setting up, I feel like America Chavez being uniquely able to travel the multiverse is obviously going to factor in as a significant plot device later.
Watched it a few days ago, really liked it.
John Krasinski distracted me. Liked his Reed but I was fully expecting him to look at the camera at some point lol
John Krasinski distracted me. Liked his Reed but I was fully expecting him to look at the camera at some point lol
I'll be seeing this again on Wednesday, so I just finished rewatching WandaVision in preparation. It reaffirms that some aspects of Multiverse of Madness really should have been handled differently imo.
Based on my rewatch of WandaVision, it's clear to me that Wanda was not fully cognizant of the effect the Hex was having on the residents of Westview until the final episode. It's implied that the spell was largely subconcious, and "magic on autopilot" as Agatha put it. As soon as Wanda recognizes what she's been putting the townsfolk through, she immediately brings the Hex down for long enough to let them escape. She later accepts that she needs to dissolve it completely, saying goodbye to Vision and her kids in the process.
Now, ignorance is obviously no defense for what she did (and I definitely didn't want her actions in Westview to be swept under the rug), but the point is that she does seem to still have a moral compass at the end of WandaVision. She acknowledges the hurt she has caused in those final scenes, and seems remorseful. And you kinda have to assume she's being genuine about that, because otherwise why bring the Hex down at all?
Fast forward to Multiverse of Madness where she's immediately on a rampage, and willing to kill children as long as she can be reunited with hers.
It just doesn't really flow all that well.
Yes, I'm aware that the scene that's meant to bridge all of this is the postcredits stinger of WandaVision, which shows her studying the Darkhold in the secluded cabin. Yes, I know that it's shown repeatedly that the Darkhold corrupts those who use it. But is this satisfying storytelling? A significant change in Wanda clearly happened off-screen, and while we can fill in the gaps easily enough...I'm not sure that we should have to? It's also worth pointing out that in that postcredits scene, you can hear Billy and Tommy screaming for help, which didn't end up being relevant to MoM. If the kids were actually in danger, that could have at least somewhat helped explain Wanda's willingness to do anything it took to save them, but they decided to just make her jealous instead.
All I know is that it would have been infinitely more impactful if Wanda had *any* internal struggle in Multiverse of Madness. Even Thanos was shown wrestling with what he had to do! As it is, there's very little emotion in Wanda's arc. She's basically a Terminator, but with sadistic one liners. Elizabeth Olsen's performance is great and does elevate things to an extent, but as a villain the character is fairly one dimensional. I still enjoyed the movie in spite of these complaints on the initial watch, but I guess we'll see how it goes again on Wednesday.
Speaking of...I thought WandaVision might suffer on a rewatch, since so much of the fun on release was the mystery of it all, but I ended up enjoying it even more than I did the first time through. The first 8 episodes are all fantastic imo, and while I still have a lot of issues with the finale -- they don't sting as much on a binge. It's easily still the best of the Disney+ offerings as far as I'm concerned, and man do the other shows feel cheap by comparison.
Based on my rewatch of WandaVision, it's clear to me that Wanda was not fully cognizant of the effect the Hex was having on the residents of Westview until the final episode. It's implied that the spell was largely subconcious, and "magic on autopilot" as Agatha put it. As soon as Wanda recognizes what she's been putting the townsfolk through, she immediately brings the Hex down for long enough to let them escape. She later accepts that she needs to dissolve it completely, saying goodbye to Vision and her kids in the process.
Now, ignorance is obviously no defense for what she did (and I definitely didn't want her actions in Westview to be swept under the rug), but the point is that she does seem to still have a moral compass at the end of WandaVision. She acknowledges the hurt she has caused in those final scenes, and seems remorseful. And you kinda have to assume she's being genuine about that, because otherwise why bring the Hex down at all?
~
Fast forward to Multiverse of Madness where she's immediately on a rampage, and willing to kill children as long as she can be reunited with hers.
It just doesn't really flow all that well.
Yes, I'm aware that the scene that's meant to bridge all of this is the postcredits stinger of WandaVision, which shows her studying the Darkhold in the secluded cabin. Yes, I know that it's shown repeatedly that the Darkhold corrupts those who use it. But is this satisfying storytelling? A significant change in Wanda clearly happened off-screen, and while we can fill in the gaps easily enough...I'm not sure that we should have to? It's also worth pointing out that in that postcredits scene, you can hear Billy and Tommy screaming for help, which didn't end up being relevant to MoM. If the kids were actually in danger, that could have at least somewhat helped explain Wanda's willingness to do anything it took to save them, but they decided to just make her jealous instead.
All I know is that it would have been infinitely more impactful if Wanda had *any* internal struggle in Multiverse of Madness. Even Thanos was shown wrestling with what he had to do! As it is, there's very little emotion in Wanda's arc. She's basically a Terminator, but with sadistic one liners. Elizabeth Olsen's performance is great and does elevate things to an extent, but as a villain the character is fairly one dimensional. I still enjoyed the movie in spite of these complaints on the initial watch, but I guess we'll see how it goes again on Wednesday.
~
Speaking of...I thought WandaVision might suffer on a rewatch, since so much of the fun on release was the mystery of it all, but I ended up enjoying it even more than I did the first time through. The first 8 episodes are all fantastic imo, and while I still have a lot of issues with the finale -- they don't sting as much on a binge. It's easily still the best of the Disney+ offerings as far as I'm concerned, and man do the other shows feel cheap by comparison.
it feels funny how single stones shanenigans create so powerful people
both Wanda and Carol are "product" of a single stone, and yet they can handle Thanos with 5 stones without issues
Wasn't a big deal made about closing the book? She specifically says she's doing it to save Wong from having to do so. Implying someone has to die for it to close or something.
Wanda is the fabled Scarlet Witch. Her powers aren't from the stone after all.
Carol being so powerful is weird though, yeah.
Wanda is the Scarlet Witch, though. Not only is she far more powerful than any random sorcerer the book was basically written for and about her. I don't think we can extrapolate anything on her fate.
do we consider Wanda in infinity war having access to her scarlet witch powers??
I was hoping in an mcu movie that Black Bolt's powers would come across a lot better but instead I just wonder if he doesnt work in live action. It still looked silly to see him kill dr strange by whispering, "I'm sorry."
I think it was left ambiguous on purpose in case they dont move forward with wanda in the future. I assumed she was dead at the end, and no post credits showing her alive and no "wanda will return" made me really think that. They could always say she survived though .
I think it was left ambiguous on purpose in case they dont move forward with wanda in the future. I assumed she was dead at the end, and no post credits showing her alive and no "wanda will return" made me really think that. They could always say she survived though .
In age of ultron, Wanda made the avengers see visions. Now that we know dreams are the multiverse, so we think those visions were just other realities?