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Should the next Souls game be Open-world?

  • Yes

    Votes: 586 53.0%
  • No

    Votes: 519 47.0%

  • Total voters
    1,105

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,770
I'm really torn.

On one hand, I feel like Elden Ring is the smoothest I've ever managed to get into these types of games. Aside from still having to put up with a lot of crap in Elden Ring that made me only passively engaged with the series on the whole (the aggravating input buffers, the way stamina works in these games, how bosses are designed etc.) even though I admired the design tenets of the series, previous Souls games were at times unnecessarily daunting in ways only they knew how to be. To some extent the ease of accessing powerful tools in Elden Ring made increasing avatar strength to put up with the higher ridiculousness of some of these encounters much more of a smooth process. The design of the game has permitted it to become the quickest I'll have come to beating one of the games. If the game is carrying my engagement a little more consistently despite all of my hangups, then it's certainly got something going for it, even if it's possible that the game is only really tricking me into believing it's a steadier ride than it actually is. For the most of the part, all of that can be attributed to the game being made open world, and being a little more liberal about what regions you can access from the jump that conceal powerful resources.

That being said, everything about the open world itself eventually devolves into mostly filler over killer. I honestly do not think this is a very well designed world beyond its visual flair, because the way the world is laid out disincentivizes true exploration. With the way that the terrain is shaped and various visual details obscure the horizons, it's hard to get a proper understanding of where any spot of import outside of Legacy Dungeons exist; doubly so whether what you uncover is of any actual use to you. This compounded with the traversal mechanics being sterile makes everything in between going to a known destination into a chore. The novelty of the open world quickly falls to the wayside once you've experienced most of its gimmicks and are now more set in what you want to work with. In some ways the open world also exacerbates the sunk fallacy mentality of having to recover your Souls on death. The amount of menial busywork I've had to commit to in my route in order to be at an optimal level to tackle some of its important objectives makes me never want to bother with a replay of the game, and I feel the main reason I'm still getting something out of it is because I've got a wiki on my side to see where I can go to obtain the things I need. There's just too much of itself, and if I'm not exhausted with it now, I'd expect I fully will be whenever ER2 inevitably gets made and if it keeps a similar approach to its world.

And when I really think about it, there's multiple things that the more Metroidvania-type Souls games could take away from Elden Ring that could make for a smoother experience even without needing an open world. Just off the top of my head, the way Elden Ring is a little better about checkpoints is one of them. It's telling that Raya Lucaria was one of the more frustrating levels for me in the game, because it arbitrarily decided to circumvent Stormhill and Stormveil Castle setting a precedent of having well placed checkpoints prior to major boss encounters. Even when Elden Ring mostly upholds that throughout the game, the way it circumvented it twice in the same legacy dungeon in favor of something more traditional made for a more frustrating experience that had shades of some of the more annoying parts of older Souls games.
 
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Deleted member 91227

Feb 4, 2021
5,002
Yes. Which is surprising to me as I'm a bit hohum on open worlds these days, but it really works for me with Elden Ring. I'm not great at these games so I'm loving having a big world to go an explore, find place to farm runes and level up some etc. when I hit a boss that's too strong for my ability at my current level. Vs. other Soulsborne games where there were fewer paths forward and thus often no choice but to power through a tough boss or two that are currently available or find somewhere to grind that can be slow if there's not a spot you've found dropping a good amount of souls for your current needs.

That said, I'd likely still buy a traditional DS4 or BB2 etc. I thought I'd fallen off of the genre as I'd not been able to get into DS1, DS2 Scholar of the First Sin or Demon's remake after platinumming Bloodeborne and doing all bosses through DLC 1 in DS3. But I think it was just that I didn't enjoy the slower combat in those older games as much as DS3, ER or especially Bloodborne. But the open worlds is definitley a part of it as frustration is reduced by just exploring and not beating my head against the wall on bosses I'm barely denting and just coming back later. I don't mind getting overleveled in these games as I don't do PVP and still struggle with many bosses even when overleveled. It's a lot more fun to gain levels doing things around an open world, finding multiple farming spots etc. than some of the farming I did in BB or DS3.
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,983
Yep. Dark Souls 3 sold 10 million copies in 4 years. Elden Ring sold 12 million copies in 18 days. It's approaching Call of Duty numbers.

Any expectation that the next game will not be open world is frankly delusional.
Even if From is all in on open worlds following ER's reception, their next game could be more or less set in stone and possibly has their usual level design.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,014
Elden Ring 2 plz.

But really cut back on boss battles. The game has over 150 boss battles and most are just reused fights with little to no variety changes involved. So many boss fights that just felt like filler in places.
 

JustInsane

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,714
I feel like with the success of ER, if you expect something non-open world you're going to be disappointed. If youre expecting Bloodborne 2, then you're going to be whatever is after disappointed.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
I'm down for either. I feel like they proved they could make the open world work for them. There are so many weird catacombs and caves off the beaten path that its fun to do that first blind run and just wander around and see what you can find.
 

Big G

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,605
Ha, I absolutely want an open-world Sekiro 2 now.

I normally prefer non-open-world to open-world design, but with Elden Ring I haven't found the Souls experience to be tarnished whatsoever. In many ways it's been an improvement.
 

JustInsane

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,714
I think they should consider both. There are folks who are absolutely turned off by cleaning up the map and want a guided experience, and there are folks who hate an experience on rails and want to go explore. I think they're leaving money behind by only doing one or the other.
They did consider both, and it's called elden ring.
 

fantalas

Member
Nov 15, 2020
1,649
Hungary
Even if From is all in on open worlds following ER's reception, their next game could be more or less set in stone and possibly has their usual level design.
I think they were talking about their next 'Souls' game following ER, they just released ER a month ago, they are probably working on a DLC before they could even begin with that.
 

The Shape

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,027
Brazil
As a first time "Souls" player with currently 108 hours in Elden Ring (and counting): yes.

I think they were talking about their next 'Souls' game following ER, they just released ER a month ago, they are probably working on a DLC before they could even begin with that.
They develop more than one game at the same time, like Naughty Dog or other studios. They were developing Sekiro at the same time as Elden Ring, and are probably already developing a new game since Sekiro shipped.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,470
Elden Ring is 10/10, but I'd like their next "souls" game to not be open world. Another game in the styling of Bloodborne would be pretty great.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,489
Austin
I do not want only open world games from them now now, no. I wouldnt mind one every once in a while but open worlds have ruined a lot of franchises, even some that started out great when using them.
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,296
Currently playing Dark Souls 3 after dipping my feet in with Elden Ring.

I have had zero issues going back to the classic hub/linear framework. Have t played deep enough into Elden Ring yet to argue for or against, but both seem to be perfectly fine approaches. Unless ER proves to have some special sauce with its world I have yet to witness.
 

Kaiser Swayze

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,616
The open world style of Elden Ring shouldn't be a one-and-done. They did a fantastic job for a first pass. I'd love to see what they can do building on what they've learned.
 

Cruxist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,820
Voted no. I love it when they experiment and change things up. Honestly, I'd prefer Sekiro 2 next.
 

TradedHats

Member
Mar 8, 2018
3,674
The open world is honestly a little too much for me. Feeling like I gotta go to every little nook and cranny in new areas as to not miss an NPC from an earlier quest or a catacomb. I remember stepping into Liurnia of the Lakes, getting the map fragment and being completely overwhelmed. I still love it though, and I'm sure by the next time Elden Ring 2 or whatever comes out I'd be up for it again.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,304
I love ER's open world, I genuinely think it's the best I've seen in a game yet. I'm not a creative person like the folks at FROM, but I can't really see how they could top this anytime soon. So I'd be totally fine to go back to their more scaled back games and maybe another open world one in a decade.
 

Oswen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
806
I enjoyed ER and even got the Platinum but I love the old "Metroidvania style map" formula more.
ER has amazing locations but the generic open world map, even if masterfully done, suffers from the same problems other similar games have.
 
May 31, 2021
698
It is hard to answer this at the moment, as I am yet to finish the game. I'm really enjoying elden ring at the moment, but I can't really compare until I have finished it.
 

fantalas

Member
Nov 15, 2020
1,649
Hungary
As a first time "Souls" player with currently 108 hours in Elden Ring (and counting): yes.


They develop more than one game at the same time, like Naughty Dog or other studios. They were developing Sekiro at the same time as Elden Ring, and are probably already developing a new game since Sekiro shipped.
Yes but not the next mainline 'Souls' games as in the title. That comes after ER. Maybe they have a side project in the works similar to Sekiro or BB but I wouldn't count that as the next 'Souls' game.

I think they should consider both. There are folks who are absolutely turned off by cleaning up the map and want a guided experience, and there are folks who hate an experience on rails and want to go explore. I think they're leaving money behind by only doing one or the other.
I don't think it's about being guided vs not guided. Even the Souls games (with the exception of maybe DS3) were pretty free in terms of your direction and it could be increased even further to an arbitrary degree.

I think it's more about the layout. In Souls you spend 100% of your time in tight designed dungeons where the gameplay is this specific type of souls-dungeon-crawling, whereas in ER you're spending most of your time in the open where the gameplay and the experience is completely different from the classic souls dungeoneering.

So for instance I had much more fun in 10-20 hours in the handful of legacy dungeons than all of my 60+ hours in the open world combined; for me horse-exploration doesn't even come close to a good souls level, that's why I'd prefer no as for OP's question.
 

Jedimastertoke

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 22, 2021
214
Elden rings open world makes it one of the easier and playable souls games. I don't think I've ever even gotten halfway through a souls game even though I own at least 4 of them. I'm currently in the capitol city and having a blast.
 

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,828
No, but that doesn't mean I don't want more open world in the future from From. I just don't want them to abandon the more interconnected, smaller (but still large worlds).

I said this before but I feel like ER is a magnus opus for the Dark/Demon's Souls games. Bloodborne is a cousin to that franchise. Sekiro to me is the game where they really went away from that formula the most in terms of gameplay and a more narrative story. So I'd rather see something more along those lines, whether its Sekiro 2 or something different. I feel like we've gotten enough Dark Souls-like now to satisfy for a good while, so I'd like it to be something different. And although I wouldn't hate an open world, I'd like to see a more focused and shorter game next time out.
 

SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,159
Yes, of course.

Open games are inherently better than linear games due to the player having more things they can do at any given time, as well as more interesting motivations to choose one action over another, rather than just "i'll do the next level because its the next level", and Elden Ring proved that From could do open world successfully, without sacrificing the level design quality that they're known for.
 
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LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,357
Absolutely not.

Open world was a neat gimmick, but the actual moment-to-moment exploration and combat outside of legacy dungeons and restricted areas was copy-paste fluff. Dark Souls 1 with the master key accomplished all the same pros, with none of the cons.
 

Genesius

Member
Nov 2, 2018
15,542
Heck to the no.

The highs that ER has presented have been countered by what I feel are the lowest lows in a From game to date.
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
7,964
California
It doesn't matter what we think because it will be due to sells and the critical acclaim of ER.

I love ER and i hope they continue the formula.
 

SaintBowWow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,085
I love that i can fuck off and do other stuff when the going gets tough. Cant really do that too much in past souls games.

This is one of the things I'm actually disliking about Elden Ring. In other From games it's usually pretty clear if I'm supposed to be fighting a given boss at a given time, so even if it's a brick wall I feel confident that I'm intended to beat it at somewhere around my current level so I try until I eventually get better and have the satisfaction of beating it. With ER I'm never sure if I'm expected to be beating a boss that's giving me tons of trouble at my current level, and as a result I usually bounce off of them after a few tries or so and return later to what is now a pretty easy fight. Yeah, I could always just decide to fight a boss over and over again until I beat it like I would in a previous Souls game, but the design of Elden Ring had me constantly question if they expected of me or if I'm wasting my time on something I'm woefully under leveled for.
 
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Khasim

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,260
Absolutely. The open world is the best part of Elden Ring. They can maybe cut down on the size and stop reusing so many caves/bosses/enemies so much and focus more on quality. This is totally what happens in AAA game dev and Elden Ring 2 is totally not going to be expected to be 5 times bigger than ER, right?
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,576
This is one of the things I'm actually disliking about Elden Ring. In other From games it's usually pretty clear if I'm supposed to be fighting a given boss at a given time, so even if it's a brick wall I feel confident that I'm intended to beat it at somewhere around my current level and eventually get better and have the satisfaction of beating it. With ER I'm never sure if I'm expected to be beating a boss that's giving me tons of trouble at my current level, and as a result I usually bounce off of them after a few tries or so and return later to what is now a pretty easy fight. Yeah, I could always just decide to fight a boss over and over again until I beat it like I would in a previous Souls game, but the design of Elden Ring had me constantly question if they expected of me or if I'm wasting my time on something I'm woefully under leveled for.
Eh, I think it really just comes down to personal player preference here. I usually gauge whether I should be doing a fight based on how many hits I can take. If I'm getting one shotted, I leave. If I lose about half health with a hit, that feels like standard From difficulty for me and I stick it out.
 

TheWildCard

Member
Jun 6, 2020
2,302
If they went back to a linear design I'd want it to be at least as much of a departure as Sekiro. If it's 'just' another Souls game yeah I want to see how they would evolve the open world design.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,671
Miami
It gets much better as the game goes on with incredible locations. Like my issues with BOTW they can reduce the repetition and empty space and make much more legacy dungeons.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Hell yes. Make improvements and an even better sequel to this and I'm there.
 

nanskee

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,071
Yes, of course.

Open games are inherently better than linear games due to the player having more things they can do at any given time, as well as more interesting motivations to choose one action over another, rather than just "i'll do the next level because its the next level", and Elden Ring proved that From could do open world successfully, without sacrificing the level design quality that they're known for.
Highly, highly disagree with the notion that open worlds are inherently better. I've still yet to have played a game with better world design, level design and lore of Metroid Prime, and that game has issues. It's all opinions at the end of the day, but I don't think I've played an open world and have come to the conclusion that it's clearly better design.

However I will say for souls, open world design is a better fit because of build variety.
 
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sku

Member
Feb 11, 2018
782
I'm not a fan of open world games and I feel that the open world in Elden Ring is responsible for most of the game's problems. There are repetition and balance issues. I prefer a smaller, more focused experience. Everything felt intentional in the previous games. Every item and boss was in a certain place for a specific reason related to the lore, which is why the world building in these games is so great. For Elden Ring, I can only confidently say that is true about the legacy dungeons. The wide open spaces don't force you to engage with enemies like the right corridors of the past games. And the addition of torrent doesn't do anything for me, personally. I don't like riding on a horse through an empty field and combat is more visceral without him.

But that's my opinion. I'd settle for a smaller open world. They're sure to make another one of these. I just hope they can keep making semi-open world titles as well. Sekiro 2 please!
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,385
I'm down for whatever but if it's several years off, then sure, I'm down for another big open world to explore.
 

Forgiven Empathy

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
571
England
Make something else for the next game, but after that I want another open world game now that they know a bit better what works and what doesn't and how to improve them.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,786
Open Worlds have been legitimized a lot to me with BotW and now Elden Ring. I used to think that almost any open world would be better as a more focused campaign (and still think this way about games like Spider-Man), but I think stripping away the open world would be a disservice to the design of a game like Elden Ring. It uses its open structure so well.