Do you want Assassin's Creed "Ragnarok" to be more like The Last Kingdom or Vikings?

[skeezx]

nord/vikings got to be old hat in gaming this decade (last decade? if you want to get into semanitcs), i'd rather it encompass northern europe in aggregate but it's ultimately whatever

since the tentative/code name is "Kingdom" i'm guessing you're experiencing the game from prism of a viking as opposed to it being a full blown "viking game"

 

[monmagman]

There's a difference in how you handle it though, in terms of "could this have actually happened?" And "this definitely didn't happen."

Most AC titles fall into the former category, with fantastical elements taking a backseat to history. Odyssey just full on littered the world with made up statues etc that clearly weren't real.

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I've played all the mainline games.....I'm about to start Odyssey in the next few days so will be intrigued to see.
That's interesting though as the other games settings have been pretty authentic for the most part.My favorite aspect of the games is the historical tourism actually so I hope it won't be too impacted in Odyssey.

 

[Braag]

I like Assassin's Creed more when they tone down the fantasy elements. They should still be there though cause they make the games more interesting.
But I think Odyssey had a bit too much fantasy in it, you were fighting mythical monsters, hanging out with gods and stabbing people with the magical spear of Leonidas. It didn't feel like Assassin's Creed since in the previous installments these elements were rare, people talked about them and you only saw glimpses of them.

 

[KeyBladerXIII]

Agreed. And it's the Origins team, so I'm confident we'll get a more historical treatment like The Last Kingdom =)

EDIT: Very happy for DLC to get more fantastical. The core game should remain historical though. Especially if they want to do a Discovery Tour mode. Odyssey's world was marred by giant fantasy statues, presumably so they could make penis jokes when you climb on them.

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Good point about the statues. Im playing through it now, but that was a very weird observation i had. Like, the statues in the temples make sense, but a huge naked Zeus? A Poseidon statue on a tiny little island? Random centaur statues in a forest? I wish it leaned more historical.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

 

[the_wart]

Nobody has a problem with Origins. It's probably the best one. Odyssey is not only unrecognizable gameplay wise, it's cartoony tone and /negative gravitas/ puts it in conflict with the rest of the series, which wouldn't be a problem if it also didn't feature /serious lore stuff/.

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The series where in the most beloved entry, your goofy buddy Leonardo da Vinci builds you a hang glider and you have a fistfight with the pope in an alien temple under the Vatican? The pulpy, swashbuckling goofiness of Odyssey is very much of a piece with AC2.

And Odyssey is literally Origin's gameplay with a more interesting skill tree, I don't see how one can be a huge deviation but the other not.

 

[Nickgia]

I prefer a historical interpretation. We already have God of War for the myth hijinks.

 

[SofNascimento]

The series where in the most beloved entry, your goofy buddy Leonardo da Vinci builds you a hang glider and you have a fistfight with the pope in an alien temple under the Vatican? The pulpy, swashbuckling goofiness of Odyssey is very much of a piece with AC2.

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AC was never a super serious game, nor it aimed to be 100% true to history. But that doesn't change that Origins and Odyssey were very different types of games.

 

[Baccus]

The series where in the most beloved entry, your goofy buddy Leonardo da Vinci builds you a hang glider and you have a fistfight with the pope in an alien temple under the Vatican? The pulpy, swashbuckling goofiness of Odyssey is very much of a piece with AC2.

And Odyssey is literally Origin's gameplay with a more interesting skill tree, I don't see how one can be a huge deviation but the other not.

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If you can't see the difference in tone and direction between 2, Origins and Odyssey there's no point in arguing.

 

[Arkaign]

Anyone ever see 'Valhalla Rising' with Mads Mikkelsen, by Winding Refn? That's basically the setting and vibe I want. Bleak beyond comprehension, just as it would have been in those times. 30 years of age made you basically a sage elder. The immense darkness of the world made believing in malicious Gods, immense sea beasts and the imminent end of the world as matters of course.

But not a place of imbeciles. These men and women invented ring mail, practiced carbon folded steel swordmaking (Ulfbehrt elite swords), mastered ocean-scale open sea navigation, flexible shipbuilding that even allowed them to carry their boats overland (this is how the Rus Vikings settled the early Russian Imperial State a thousand+ or so years ago!), innovative proto-special-forces hybrid warfare tactics which enabled them to sack Constantinople in 860, a seemingly impossible feat, yet they accomplished it with a small force, and were pragmatic enough to decide to return to the realms around modern day Ukraine. This event was so stunning that it probably was a factor in the later Byzantine Empire hiring the later Rus aka Varangians, or Lake Princes depending on your preference, as their elite troops and imperial guard.

The Viking Mercenaries of the Byzantine Empire - The Varangian Guard

The Byzantines Hired Viking Mercenaries as Guards The relationship between the Byzantine Emperors and their Varangian Guard was a complex affair. The

www.warhistoryonline.com

They were also not just plunderers and maniacs by any measure, but world class travelers who made it as far as Baghdad, or even beyond, and learned to translate with Arabic speaking merchants, warriors, and craftsmen in pursuit of greater knowledge and trading partners.

This zeal for trade beyond their tribes and micro princedoms is how they came across the rare and spectacular ore they used for the Ulfbehrt carbon steel weaponry, something that from Western Europe to the Siberian wilds would have been a truly generational step ahead of anything to cross with it.

Unlocking The Mysteries Of The Unbeatable Viking Swords That No One Else Could Replicate

See the all-powerful Ulfberht swords and discover how their makers might have been able to build a blade so strong it still baffles experts.

allthatsinteresting.com

 

[dodo]

as much as i love norse mythology, i desperately want it to feel more historical. myth has been done to death recently in games generally, and part of the appeal of assassin's creed has always been the historical fiction angle. I know it's always had the sci-fi twist, and I actually don't mind that part, but it's a bummer watching the in-animus segments become more and more mythological.

 

[elenarie]

It'll be closer to Origins/Odyssey in that regard than earlier AC's, and I'm good with that.

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Kind of have the same feeling. It will probably be the game that ends the "mythology" theme. We've so far had The Crusades, The Renaissance, the Age of Discovery, the French Revolution, and the Victorian era, unless I'm forgetting something.

3 games focusing on mythology should be enough. There are plenty of other places to go to with future AC games.

 

[Tatsu91]

Give me half and half not quite high fantasy and not quite a history channel world

 

[DeadmansTheory]

I'm probably more alone on this one but like 13th Warrior with a mix of Beowulf/Ahmad ibn Fadlan's historical account of the Volga Vikings.

 

[Sheepinator]

Horns? They tell a story, and that's what fashion is all about.

 

[SofNascimento]

Anyone ever see 'Valhalla Rising' with Mads Mikkelsen, by Winding Refn? That's basically the setting and vibe I want. Bleak beyond comprehension, just as it would have been in those times. 30 years of age made you basically a sage elder. The immense darkness of the world made believing in malicious Gods, immense sea beasts and the imminent end of the world as matters of course.

But not a place of imbeciles. These men and women invented ring mail, practiced carbon folded steel swordmaking (Ulfbehrt elite swords), mastered ocean-scale open sea navigation, flexible shipbuilding that even allowed them to carry their boats overland (this is how the Rus Vikings settled the early Russian Imperial State a thousand+ or so years ago!), innovative proto-special-forces hybrid warfare tactics which enabled them to sack Constantinople in 860, a seemingly impossible feat, yet they accomplished it with a small force, and were pragmatic enough to decide to return to the realms around modern day Ukraine. This event was so stunning that it probably was a factor in the later Byzantine Empire hiring the later Rus aka Varangians, or Lake Princes depending on your preference, as their elite troops and imperial guard.

The Viking Mercenaries of the Byzantine Empire - The Varangian Guard

The Byzantines Hired Viking Mercenaries as Guards The relationship between the Byzantine Emperors and their Varangian Guard was a complex affair. The

www.warhistoryonline.com

They were also not just plunderers and maniacs by any measure, but world class travelers who made it as far as Baghdad, or even beyond, and learned to translate with Arabic speaking merchants, warriors, and craftsmen in pursuit of greater knowledge and trading partners.

This zeal for trade beyond their tribes and micro princedoms is how they came across the rare and spectacular ore they used for the Ulfbehrt carbon steel weaponry, something that from Western Europe to the Siberian wilds would have been a truly generational step ahead of anything to cross with it.

Unlocking The Mysteries Of The Unbeatable Viking Swords That No One Else Could Replicate

See the all-powerful Ulfberht swords and discover how their makers might have been able to build a blade so strong it still baffles experts.

allthatsinteresting.com

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I believe you are being a little too enthusiastic. Also, chain mail (I'm assuming that's what you meant) was invented centuries before the Vikings and they never breached the walls of Constantinople.

 

[RedSwirl]

We already have enough mythological viking shit in gaming, and Creed has always done a great amount of historical research, so I at least trust it to be as accurate as it wants to be.

Personally, I'm more down with the Vinland Saga path:

It goes much more towards historical accuracy (using history as a backdrop for fictional stories), but the main characters are somewhat superheroic.

 

[Arkaign]

I believe you are being a little too enthusiastic. Also, chain mail (I'm assuming that's what you meant) was invented centuries before the Vikings and they never breached the walls of Constantinople.

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Well, sort of. The Constantinople raid was not focused in the inner city, but rather the new fortress Sarkel, freshly built by Constantinople as an overlord type site to block the trade pathway running north and south. The Rus sacked it, and it remained out of imperial hands for over two hundred years. It would be like someone sacking Anacostia near DC, but not moving onto the Capitol building or the White House. A tactical and strategic victory for the Rus.

The mail thing I completely whiffed on. I remember talking to a bench blade maker for a few hours about a decade ago, and he was talking about different innovations through history, like the 4-in-1 steel riveted mail that was perhaps a later combo of things the Vikings had come across via the Celts, Byzantines, Gauls, Mongols, etc. The shape, theoretical durability and strength to weight was supposed to be excellent. He even said it would probably have been shaped to treasured deerhide leather armor to make for maximum flexibility and practicality. Viking smiths seem to have been pretty talented, and being so open to travel and trade with diverse peoples probably helped.

They were not nearly as bloodthirsty and insane as they're often made out to be in pop culture, and probably not least because of old Catholic records of their conquests that make them most infamous. Perhaps bad luck they picked the 1% or less of the population who was capable of reading, writing, and recording those particular days for posterity (and no doubt exaggerated due to human nature).

 

[SofNascimento]

Well, sort of. The Constantinople raid was not focused in the inner city, but rather the new fortress Sarkel, freshly built by Constantinople as an overlord type site to block the trade pathway running north and south. The Rus sacked it, and it remained out of imperial hands for over two hundred years. It would be like someone sacking Anacostia near DC, but not moving onto the Capitol building or the White House. A tactical and strategic victory for the Rus.

The mail thing I completely whiffed on. I remember talking to a bench blade maker for a few hours about a decade ago, and he was talking about different innovations through history, like the 4-in-1 steel riveted mail that was perhaps a later combo of things the Vikings had come across via the Celts, Byzantines, Gauls, Mongols, etc. The shape, theoretical durability and strength to weight was supposed to be excellent. He even said it would probably have been shaped to treasured deerhide leather armor to make for maximum flexibility and practicality. Viking smiths seem to have been pretty talented, and being so open to travel and trade with diverse peoples probably helped.

They were not nearly as bloodthirsty and insane as they're often made out to be in pop culture, and probably not least because of old Catholic records of their conquests that make them most infamous. Perhaps bad luck they picked the 1% or less of the population who was capable of reading, writing, and recording those particular days for posterity (and no doubt exaggerated due to human nature).

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I didn't knwo about this fortress, but googling it now it seems it was very far away from Constantinople?

And yeah, popular view about historical subjects and reality rarely match.

 

[ThreepQuest64]

I'd like both version. As long as social stealth returns.

 

[SofNascimento]

I'd like both version. As long as social stealth returns.

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You might as well ask for a good present day storyline...

 

[defaltoption]

I hate the fantasy stuff in the latest AC games, its part of what ruined the lore, hope they get away from it

 

[VaporSnake]

Considering Vikings has scenes with fricken' Odin himself in it, it will likely more resemble vikings. If it resembled the last kingdom it probably wouldn't be an assassins creed game.

 

[Lucreto]

I hate the fantasy stuff in the latest AC games, its part of what ruined the lore, hope they get away from it

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How did it ruin the lore when it fits in to it?

 

[SofNascimento]

Considering Vikings has scenes with fricken' Odin himself in it, it will likely more resemble vikings. If it resembled the last kingdom it probably wouldn't be an assassins creed game.

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I'd say older AC were very much like The Last Kingdom in terms of tone. Indeed, Uhtred with his seax can be quite stealthy!

 

[ZiZ]

I just hope they don't sugarcoat the vikings. Vikings were murderous rampaging rapists and slavers.

 

[Tyaren]

I hope for some fantasy and artistic freedom mixed in there. Just Viking Age Europe would be a pretty dull setting, it just can't compare to the heights of human civilization in middle ages Jerusalem/Damascus, Renaissance Italy, ancient Greece or Egypt. This is what a historically correct Viking Age city looked like. And this is already the 2nd biggest known Viking city, Hedeby, in what is today Northern Germany:

Yeah...I don't really want to explore that. There isn't even any high building to climb on AC-style. :(

 

[danhz]

In the past AC, the fantasy was in the dlcs, I expect it to be the same here.

 

[ThreepQuest64]

You might as well ask for a good present day storyline...

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Okay, I'd take that, too!

 

[Tygerjaw]

I want it to be like Vinland Saga or Valhalla Rising.

 

[Holundrian]

I want fantasy. Origins and Odyssey got me back in after not having the patience in dealing with a shitty sci fi story that does not go anywhere. Even in those games the out of animus parts are frankly trash gibberish I could not care less about.

Ever since AC2 the series has just been worse off for taking itself too seriously, there is simply no integrity whenever it tries to given that I already no there is planned real resolution to the animus story line and the in animus stuff is the reason we play anyway.

 

[StrappingYoungLance]

I really enjoyed Odyssey going wild with the Greek Mythos stuff so bring on the Norse pantheon and creatures as Isu and their experiments.

 

[FatherCashew]

Vikings is fantasy now? Dropped off around season 3, so maybe it's changed course, but I felt like it was pretty grounded in reality. They referenced and "consulted" the gods a lot but that seemed understandable for the culture. I'm not super well read in Norse history though so maybe the story wasn't accurate to actual events.

 

[Sheepinator]

Vikings is fantasy now? Dropped off around season 3, so maybe it's changed course, but I felt like it was pretty grounded in reality. They referenced and "consulted" the gods a lot but that seemed understandable for the culture. I'm not super well read in Norse history though so maybe the story wasn't accurate to actual events.

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There were mild supernatural elements, like the seer who did a good job predicting the future, and how some characters mystically know something happened to a family member a long way away.

 

[Lunchbox]

Fantasy baby!!

 

[SofNascimento]

Vikings is fantasy now? Dropped off around season 3, so maybe it's changed course, but I felt like it was pretty grounded in reality. They referenced and "consulted" the gods a lot but that seemed understandable for the culture. I'm not super well read in Norse history though so maybe the story wasn't accurate to actual events.

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Don't the show literally begin with Odin standing on a field of battle? But fantasy is not simply about mysthical elements, it's about how you handle the story and the world, indeed, I'm not even sure how much we actually know about the original Ragnar, or if he ever existed.

 

[Sheepinator]

Don't the show literally begin with Odin standing on a field of battle? But fantasy is not simply about mysthical elements, it's about how you handle the story and the world, indeed, I'm not even sure how much we actually know about the original Ragnar, or if he ever existed.

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Those were visions Ragnar had.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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[SofNascimento]

Those were visions Ragnar had.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Click to shrink...

But aren't they real? I thought Ragnar is Odin's son in the series.

 

[Sheepinator]

But aren't they real? I thought Ragnar is Odin's son in the series.

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No, just visions. As I said earlier, the show leans on the mysticism/supernatural more than TLK, but it's not overt fantasy wrt things in the real world, like the way recent AC's are.

Sigurd Hring

Sigurd Hring was the late father of King Ragnar Lothbrok and Duke Rollo. According to the Scandinavian sagas, Sigurd was granted rulership over Svealand as a vassal king under his uncle Harald Wartooth, King of Denmark. When he was older, he took up arms against his uncle and successfully...

vikings.fandom.com

 

[SofNascimento]

No, just visions. As I said earlier, the show leans on the mysticism/supernatural more than TLK, but it's not overt fantasy wrt things in the real world, like the way recent AC's are.

Sigurd Hring

Sigurd Hring was the late father of King Ragnar Lothbrok and Duke Rollo. According to the Scandinavian sagas, Sigurd was granted rulership over Svealand as a vassal king under his uncle Harald Wartooth, King of Denmark. When he was older, he took up arms against his uncle and successfully...

vikings.fandom.com

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I see. There is an episode which a guy appeared and I thought the show implied he was a god, but now I'm not sure.

 

[Blade Wolf]

If it's actually called Ragnarak then there's no way it's going to be historical.

 

[Kill3r7]

Historical fiction is what the series does best.

 

[TheGhost]

Fantasy with historical roots
Kind of just like Odyssey

 

[Sheepinator]

I see. There is an episode which a guy appeared and I thought the show implied he was a god, but now I'm not sure.

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You're right. I forgot some of the details about Harbard. The show did present him as being God in human form. That would lean more toward fantasy. Characters had visions of him before meeting him (not conclusive imo), and he was able to take Ivar's pain away by touch (certainly questionable). I still think it's possible he was just a human though.

Who Is Harbard? Vikings' Biggest Mystery Character Explained

He disappeared as mysteriously as he appeared.

screenrant.com

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Magic is fine. I'd rather have that than just fighting the exact same four or five kinds of human enemies for the entire game. Give me fantasy shit.

 

[SofNascimento]

If it's actually called Ragnarak then there's no way it's going to be historical.

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It's not.

You're right. I forgot some of the details about Harbard. The show did present him as being God in human form. That would lean more toward fantasy. Characters had visions of him before meeting him (not conclusive imo), and he was able to take Ivar's pain away by touch (certainly questionable). I still think it's possible he was just a human though.

Who Is Harbard? Vikings' Biggest Mystery Character Explained

He disappeared as mysteriously as he appeared.

screenrant.com

Click to shrink...

Indeed, and The Last Kingdom also have some stuff like that. But when I think Vikings been less historical it's not just that. For example, I remember in one episode a guy called a fortress an "iron age fortress" or something. I mean, that's modern terminology. On a more meaningful note, Paris in latter seasons was basically Paris from the "future" and the siege tactics used by the Vikings were also quite different from what they would use.

 

[Blade Wolf]

It's not.

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You sure?

 

[SofNascimento]

You sure?

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It was told by a reliable source.

 

[Blade Wolf]

It was told by a reliable source.

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Interesting, I presume Ragnarok is a working title

 

[SofNascimento]

Interesting, I presume Ragnarok is a working title

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I think the working title was Kingdom, and Ragnarok is just a made up name by some leak or something. Although I suppose Kingdom also was mentioned by a leak so who knows.