Do you think the FFVII Remake should alter the Avalanche / Turks relationship?

[signal]

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So in the original game we know the Turks are at least partially responsible to blame for the Sector 7 pillar - plate collapse. It's not really clear how many people die from this since we don't know how evacuated the area was, but there is a small cutscene implying some people die. Also Biggs Wedge & Jessie die along the way, or at least are incapacitated enough to definitely not survive the plate collapse.

Throughout the rest of the game your party has a kind of weird relationship with the Turks. It's not really ever friendly, but a lot of people over the years have said they never felt the relationship between the party and the Turks matched their actions in Midgar, whether it was in in-game encounters or them becoming silly nerds in Advent Children. While this isn't a big deal in the original imo (the working together at Wutai and option to ignore them during the Midgar revisit are both understandable somewhat), this might be a bigger deal in the remake. The visuals of the collapse seem more visceral but more importantly you're spending like double digit hours with Biggs Wedge and Jessie in this game rather than the 2 or whatever in the original. It might be harder to pass off working together with the Turks because of this I think. Most players in the original probably aren't remembering the fallen Avalanche members for much of the game, but their prominence in the remake might change that (or just hope part 2 comes out so much later that people basically forget, lol.)

So the question is, do you think this will / should be altered somewhat in the remake? Assuming the plate collapse plays out mostly as it did in the original (e.g. the Turks actually initiate the plate collapse and it's not some remote bomb by Heidegger and the Turks appear there to do 'something else' and are surprised at the event), some possible options:

• Leave it mostly as it was in the original. The hate for the Turks is still there, but any future moments the remake might have where you aren't totally hostile towards them (i.e. Wutai & Midgar, maybe that weird Junon bar) are passed off as 'understandable' in the context of those situations.
• Make the dislike of the Turks stronger, but frame the less hostile encounters above (again, assuming they are even in the remake) in a way that removes the choice of whether to fight them or not from the party. For example, you don't agree to have some truce with them in Wutai and Midgar, they just escape or some situations outside of your control make it so it's not possible to confront them. Barret can still yell obscenities at them.
• Turk redemption arc?? (With a retcon that makes Reeve a Turk and he convinces them to atone for their sins. As a spy Reeve should be a Turk anyway
  
  )
• Make it clear that Sector 7 was basically completely evacuated before the plate collapsed and no one in the slums died (maybe Reeve pulled some strings ahead of time). While this would still leave Biggs Wedge and Jessie (assuming they die in this event), it might(?) make them seem less monstrous since it would be clear they didn't kill hundreds of people (even if the avoidance of doing so wasn't because of them)
• Others

My nonsense (yet cool......) theory from the main remake thread:

Maybe Biggs Wedge and Jessie don't die in this one. They remain in Midgar to recruit more Avalanche members and keep an eye on Shinra while Cloud and crew go out to do things.

I don't actually think this will happen but it wouldn't be that terrible because 1. it will let the player not hate the Turks as much (yes they flatten Sector 7 but we don't really know how evacuated it was / the attachment to Avalanche members is way stronger than misc. Sector 7 people) and 2. once you leave Midgar for a while after the first game, you can basically forget they exist and continue the story as in the original. Meet up with them again in Part 3 or whatever and again leave them in Midgar to do things. Just slightly alter Barret's later anti-Shinra motives to be more about the planet or sector 7 in general.

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So, any ideas?

 

[Inuhanyou]

they became a joke in the second disk unfortunately. they'd have to rewrite them to be taken seriously for killing like thousands of people without a care.

The problem of course is that FF7 got away with such whiplash because of the time and place. It wouldent work in a medium they are trying to put it in now where its pretty serious and down to earth

I can only imagine going back to Barret's hometown and seeing the flashbacks and the situation with Dyne regarding Marlene and all that..that was some non PG13 stuff..lot of genocide in that game...

 

[Kain]

The Turks were 90s lovable murderers, a product of their times. I'm 100% sure they will either evacuate Sector 7 completely beforehand or the breaking of the pillar will be an accident due to Sephiroth or Genesis or JENOVA or what have you.

 

[signal]

they became a joke in the second disk unfortunately. they'd have to rewrite them to be taken seriously for killing like thousands of people without a care.

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They got pretty dumb in AC for sure lol. I never minded it in the original game much since you (maybe just me) kind of 'forget' about the pillar events as the game goes on, and you're never THAT friendly with them. Like after you part ways in Wutai I'm more thinking 'makes sense, later' since I'm definitely not thinking about Midgar events at that point.

I can only imagine going back to Barret's hometown and seeing the flashbacks and the situation with Dyne regarding Marlene and all that..that was some non PG13 stuff..lot of genocide in that game...

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This will be cool to see. An amplification of Shinra hatred for sure. Maybe the Dyne part will be longer too since the scenario is pretty dramatic for something that happens in like 20 minutes total.

 

[Jegriva]

It's always been confusing to me why the Turks are called this way: is there a Turkey in Final Fantasy VII?

 

[Nakenorm]

It's always been confusing to me why the Turks are called this way: is there a Turkey in Final Fantasy VII?

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EDIT: Removed. Bad example lol.

 

[APZonerunner]

This is one of the things about the original game and one of the challenges of doing a 'photoreal' remake -- the Turks' actions are suddenly harrowing and horrible. That said, they were never depicted as lovely in the original, so it's weird: the game goes at great lengths to tell us they're involved with kidnapping and assassination, for instance, but then the game treats them as quite harmless and fun, so there's definitely a disconnect.

I really hope they don't lessen the impact of the plate dropping by showing mass evacuations (also, they still destroyed thousands of homes and livelihoods) or indeed by allowing Biggs, Wedge or Jessie to survive - but they double down on it, they make it worse.

In the end, the Turks do have an arc: by the end of the game they're still vaguely loyal to Rufus, but also clearly have 'woken up' and even help you a bit. In a remake, maybe dropping the plate (which will presumably come towards the end of part 1) will shake their belief system and then they'll gradually wane until they actually flip sides in the end, probably once Tseng 'dies'.

 

[signal]

This is one of the things about the original game and one of the challenges of doing a 'photoreal' remake -- the Turks' actions are suddenly harrowing and horrible. That said, they were never depicted as lovely in the original, so it's weird: the game goes at great lengths to tell us they're involved with kidnapping and assassination, for instance, but then the game treats them as quite harmless and fun, so there's definitely a disconnect.

I really hope they don't lessen the impact of the plate dropping by showing mass evacuations (also, they still destroyed thousands of homes and livelihoods) or indeed by allowing Biggs, Wedge or Jessie to survive - but they double down on it, they make it worse.

In the end, the Turks do have an arc: by the end of the game they're still vaguely loyal to Rufus, but also clearly have 'woken up' and even help you a bit. In a remake, maybe dropping the plate (which will presumably come towards the end of part 1) will shake their belief system and then they'll gradually wane until they actually flip sides in the end, probably once Tseng 'dies'.

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I never found them that fun in the original. I guess interactions with Elena and maybe Wutai is less serious, but otherwise it didn't seem that bad. Maybe Reno and Rude being more blatantly silly in Advent Children makes the original seem tame lol. I'd actually like to see Rufus come to help you more. I liked him a lot in the original.

 

[Snormy]

I don't remember the party and the turks being on good terms with each other. It was more of a situation where, usually the Turks are sent to either provide assistance or it was simply not the party's priority at the time to get into a conflict with them. I can't recall anyone being actually friendly with the Turks but I haven't played the game in a long time so my memory may be off. I do remember Zack was on fairly good terms with a number of them, even having one for his Limit Break.

 

[CloudCircus]

The Turks sequences are so boring and bland — just cut them out.

 

[signal]

I don't remember the party and the turks being on good terms with each other. It was more of a situation where, usually the Turks are sent to either provide assistance or it was simply not the party's priority at the time to get into a conflict with them. I can't recall anyone being actually friendly with the Turks but I haven't played the game in a long time so my memory may be off.

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This is mostly the case but I think you could argue it works better in the original because the impact of their Midgar actions seem less minor by comparison. Even ignoring the plate collapse, I think the player might react differently to just not fighting the Turks after the Wutai events when you spend 30 hours with Biggs Wedge & Jessie vs 2 hours. Inconvenient timing maybe but you might still be like "no fuck that, fight!!"

 

[APZonerunner]

I never found them that fun in the original. I guess interactions with Elena and maybe Wutai is less serious, but otherwise it didn't seem that bad. Maybe Reno and Rude being more blatantly silly in Advent Children makes the original seem tame lol. I'd actually like to see Rufus come to help you more. I liked him a lot in the original.

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I think a big part of the problem is just that a lot of their decisions just don't make sense, tbh. Like let's look at Tseng - the game goes to great pains to emphasize he's known Aerith since she was a little girl and that they're really friends, if friends with a professional barrier between them - but in the end he has no problem delivering her to Hojo, and he's worked at Shinra long enough that he must know what happens to Hojo's experiments. So that's fucked up, but then later Tseng has a good turn again when he lets you go in the Mythril Mines and does the right thing at the Temple before getting popped.

Reno and Rude - their double act is silly, yeah, and not entirely befitting of what they do. It's worse in AC, but the original is just as guilty. It's the sort of thing you can get away with when they're chibi models but harder now, so I imagine it'll change. You have to imagine Wutai will change significantly and become part of the critical path, so I bet that's very different.

There's also the question of how the lore is expanded and what ends up getting used from the compilation. Like, we've already got hints about more Avalanche cells beyond Barret's in the official website, so does this trend towards a reveal of a longer-term conflict between Avalanche and the Turks, as detailed in Before Crisis? Because if so, that changes the parameters and context for their encounters/battles in this story.

 

[signal]

There's also the question of how the lore is expanded and what ends up getting used from the compilation. Like, we've already got hints about more Avalanche cells beyond Barret's in the official website, so does this trend towards a reveal of a longer-term conflict between Avalanche and the Turks, as detailed in Before Crisis? Because if so, that changes the parameters and context for their encounters/battles in this story.

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The biggest questionmark for me regarding this stuff is the seemingly drastic switch (seen in the TGS trailer) to connect Avalanche to Wutai.

 

[APZonerunner]

The biggest questionmark for me regarding this stuff is the seemingly drastic switch (seen in the TGS trailer) to connect Avalanche to Wutai.

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In Before Crisis the 'original' pre-Barret Avalanche is based out of Wutai, and the Turks actually infiltrate the base, plant bombs there, and blow it up. So the connection has been established in the world before, but it's now being added to this new version of FF7's lore.

The whole Wutai story is interesting, as the original game doesn't really go into detail on it. All we know really is that Shinra wanted to build a reactor there, Wutai said no, and then the two went to war. Despite only being mentioned in passing the war is an important backdrop, because the war is where Aerith's mother's husband dies (so when she's waiting at the train station for him to return and discovers Aerith instead, it's from the Wutai war), it's key to pretty much everything about who Yuffie is, and it's also (in CC) one of Zack's greatest triumphs - he's basically the one to end the war.

The Wutai as shown in FF7 is a weird one, because though the game justifies it by saying that post-war, capitulated, the country is reduced to a tourist trap, it doesn't look like a country capable of going to war with Shinra, leave alone a war that'd force Shinra to conscript civilians like Elmyra's husband... even if it is producing ace ninjas like Yuffie. Between this and the line from the president in the trailer about "Wicked Wutai, our sworn enemy", it may be that in this version of the story the war isn't exactly over. If this is true it completely shifts Yuffie's story and motivation, however, as the whole reason she's out in the world stealing and stuff in the original game is because she left Wutai disgusted by her father's surrender to Shinra. So... hmm.

 

[Nakenorm]

The biggest questionmark for me regarding this stuff is the seemingly drastic switch (seen in the TGS trailer) to connect Avalanche to Wutai.

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Probably just Shinra trying to put the blame on Wutai for political reasons. Neat Idea.
Always thought it was weird that, from what I remember, no one never really mentions Wutai until you actually meet Yuffie/get there. Especially since Midgar(Shinra?) and Wutai is supposed to have been at war relatively recent.

 

[signal]

In Before Crisis the 'original' pre-Barret Avalanche is based out of Wutai, and the Turks actually infiltrate the base, plant bombs there, and blow it up. So the connection has been established in the world before, but it's now being added to this new version of FF7's lore.

The whole Wutai story is interesting, as the original game doesn't really go into detail on it. All we know really is that Shinra wanted to build a reactor there, Wutai said no, and then the two went to war. Despite only being mentioned in passing the war is an important backdrop, because the war is where Aerith's mother's husband dies (so when she's waiting at the train station for him to return and discovers Aerith instead, it's from the Wutai war), it's key to pretty much everything about who Yuffie is, and it's also (in CC) one of Zack's greatest triumphs - he's basically the one to end the war.

The Wutai as shown in FF7 is a weird one, because though the game justifies it by saying that post-war, capitulated, the country is reduced to a tourist trap, it doesn't look like a country capable of going to war with Shinra, leave alone a war that'd force Shinra to conscript civilians like Elmyra's husband... even if it is producing ace ninjas like Yuffie. Between this and the line from the president in the trailer about "Wicked Wutai, our sworn enemy", it may be that in this version of the story the war isn't exactly over. If this is true it completely shifts Yuffie's story and motivation, however, as the whole reason she's out in the world stealing and stuff in the original game is because she left Wutai disgusted by her father's surrender to Shinra. So... hmm.

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Maybe they have plants to build a more impressive looking Wutai so they want to make it more prominent in the story lol. I know of the Avalanche origins but from the context of the original game, Shinra directly linking the Avalanche bombings / plate collapse to Wutai instead of just "terrorist group Avalanche" is a bit odd. But yeah it will clearly be more prominent in this game.

 

[Dogui]

After watching that last TGS trailer...yeah, Jessie/Biggs/Wedge are totally not dying this time. It would really suck imo, their deaths were necessary for the dramatic impact and all.

People at Sector 7 could have been evacuated this time to make the Turks less hateful, but those 3 characters 100% needs to die.

Maybe new characters will be introduced to take the avalanche trio place as tension sacrifices, but meh.

If i could choose, would make Turks less friendly and keep all the deaths in the original. But they're too popular for some reason, the opposite is more likely.

 

[signal]

If i could choose, would make Turks less friendly and keep all the deaths in the original.

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Let my man bugenhagen live.

 

[MistaTwo]

I can see why people would want it altered, but I kinda hope they keep their characterizations from the original game.

To me the various more light-hearted interactions you get in the original game helped to paint them as a more neutral evil alignment in the
larger scope of things and I kinda feel like that was the point of all those scenes. They do seem more conflicted as the game progresses, unless I am remembering things wrong.

I would hate to lose that scene in Goganga where they are gossiping over which party member they like.

I could see them doing something similar to the Avalanche bench warmers, and giving them more story and background in the remake
to make them seem more like sympathetic villains who are stuck in a system with no easy way out.

An easy way out would be to definitely just paint them as a simple cog in the Sector 7 plate drop, i.e. expecting that everyone was evacuated
only to later find out they were not.

If I remember correctly, Tseng was not included in the meeting where they decide to drop the plate. It's just their boss, Heidegger, who is privy to the full plan.

 

[MILKGOLOLBAD]

The turks were likeable for me because they were the very rare "human" type enemy and they literally seemed like another FF7 party going through the same areas and fighting the same fights as Cloud and others. That probably helped smooth over the disconnect.

They do seem more conflicted as the game progresses,

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Yep, that too. They are doing their job and they realize their job sucks.

 

[The Johnstruct]

Reeve can't be a Turk because Turks aren't privy to Boardroom discussions. Tseng works for Heidegger.

 

[Snormy]

This is mostly the case but I think you could argue it works better in the original because the impact of their Midgar actions seem less minor by comparison. Even ignoring the plate collapse, I think the player might react differently to just not fighting the Turks after the Wutai events when you spend 30 hours with Biggs Wedge & Jessie vs 2 hours. Inconvenient timing maybe but you might still be like "no fuck that, fight!!"

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That is fair. But then I would say that if the avalanche NPC trio are given more time to develop I wouldn't be surprised if the interactions with the Turks are given a dose of changes as well. I think some minor tweaking would still allow the same interactions. It could simply be that the Turks are the ones to walk away before conflict starts as fighting the team weren't part of their orders. I seem to remember there was some stalling type thing but they seemed to be the type that had back up plans and I always figured they just switched when they were defeated.

The situation with the midgar plate specifically I think can definitely be more shocking this time round but I don't personally think they need to change it or shy away from it. Ultimately the Turks weren't a likeable crew and they don't need to be.

 

[signal]

That is fair. But then I would say that if the avalanche NPC trio are given more time to develop I wouldn't be surprised if the interactions with the Turks are given a dose of changes as well. I think some minor tweaking would still allow the same interactions. It could simply be that the Turks are the ones to walk away before conflict starts as fighting the team weren't part of their orders. I seem to remember there was some stalling type thing but they seemed to be the type that had back up plans and I always figured they just switched when they were defeated.

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Yeah assuming much of the storyline is not changed from the original (though it probably will be) this might be the easiest alteration. You can't fight the Turks now because of [something outside of party control] vs "we agree to go our separate ways for a while".

I can see why people would want it altered, but I kinda hope they keep their characterizations from the original game.

To me the various more light-hearted interactions you get in the original game helped to paint them as a more neutral evil alignment in the
larger scope of things and I kinda feel like that was the point of all those scenes. They do seem more conflicted as the game progresses, unless I am remembering things wrong.

I would hate to lose that scene in Goganga where they are gossiping over which party member they like.

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It's not really painting the Turks in a different manner, since I think a pretty similar translation from the original to the Remake would be fine. I don't think they were too silly in the original game. It's more the party's interactions with them might not align with the actions of the Turks more so in this version than the original.

 

[Turin]

In the original, prior to seeing AC, I recall thinking of Reno and Rude as just kind of being amoral cockroaches. And I figured the main party kind of saw them the same way.

 

[MistaTwo]

Yeah assuming much of the storyline is not changed from the original (though it probably will be) this might be the easiest alteration. You can't fight the Turks now because of [something outside of party control] vs "we agree to go our separate ways for a while".


It's not really painting the Turks in a different manner, since I think a pretty similar translation from the original to the Remake would be fine. I don't think they were too silly in the original game. It's more the party's interactions with them might not align with the actions of the Turks more so in this version than the original.

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Maybe. The visuals will probably be more visceral this time, but I feel like PS1 graphics meant that a lot of players also filled in the gaps.
They were still pretty blatant with the imagery, including a close-up on a toddler watching tv (I think?) right before the plate came down.

I think the party's slight indifference to them is just a result of them knowing that they aren't the real problem, and are just following orders, along with the fact that they aren't really a threat compared to Sephiroth for most of the story.
That is also fairly relateable for most of the cast (Cloud, Barrett, Cid, Vincent, Cait Sith) as they also had times in their past where they were willing allies to Shinra.

 

[signal]

Maybe. The visuals will probably be more visceral this time, but I feel like PS1 graphics meant that a lot of players also filled in the gaps.
They were still pretty blatant with the imagery, including a close-up on a toddler watching tv (I think?) right before the plate came down.

I think the party's slight indifference to them is just a result of them knowing that they aren't the real problem, and are just following orders.
That is actually fairly relateable for most of cast (Cloud, Barrett, Cid, Vincent, Cait Sith) as they also had times in their past where they were willing allies to Shinra.

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I think more than the visuals will be the Avalanche members and the Turks' role in their deaths, assuming it plays out like the original. The prerendered background in the OP is still pretty dramatic but both that and biggswedgejessie are kind of forgettable as the game goes on. I just think it will be harder to play nice with the turks if you have dozens of hours of memories with them ;_;7

And there was someone watching TV while you see the newsman look up in horror (rip) but I think it was just an adult lol.

 

[MistaTwo]

I think more than the visuals will be the Avalanche members and the Turks' role in their deaths, assuming it plays out like the original. The prerendered background in the OP is still pretty dramatic but both that and biggswedgejessie are kind of forgettable as the game goes on. I just think it will be harder to play nice with the turks if you have dozens of hours of memories with them ;_;7

And there was someone watching TV while you see the newsman look up in horror (rip) but I think it was just an adult lol.

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I could've sworn it was a kid, but dem ps1 polygon counts might've thrown me off.

I honestly think just adding some extra angry banter for Barret during their first post-midgar encounter would be enough, but maybe I am wrong.

I guess it really comes down to how well they pull off the new content with the avalanche b team.

At that point the stakes are already much higher and all focus is on chasing down Sephiroth.

 

[signal]

I could've sworn it was a kid, but dem ps1 polygon counts might've thrown me off.

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There's actually no one watching!

You probably mixed up this with the ending cinematic since the room you see Marlene in is basically the same.

 

[RagnarokX]

The party probably just have anything personal against The Turks because they were following orders and it'd be a bit hypocritical after Avalanche killed who knows how many people with their terrorist bombings.

It wouldn't make sense for Reeve to be a turk. He's a Shinra board member.

Vincent is a former Turk, though.

 

[signal]

It wouldn't make sense for Reeve to be a turk. He's a Shinra board member.

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I said retcon..

The party probably just have anything personal against The Turks because they were following orders and it'd be a bit hypocritical after Avalanche killed who knows how many people with their terrorist bombings.

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This isn't how emotions or fiction works!!

 

[RagnarokX]

There's actually no one watching!

You probably mixed up this with the ending cinematic since the room you see Marlene in is basically the same.

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Plus, since you can see the plate is in the distance out the window, that house might be in Sector 6.

We do see people on the plate fall with it, though, and get crushed outside 7th Heaven

 

[MistaTwo]

There's actually no one watching!

You probably mixed up this with the ending cinematic since the room you see Marlene in is basically the same.

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Ah yeah, that makes sense.

 

[signal]

Plus, since you can see the plate is in the distance out the window, that house might be in Sector 6.

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Maybe it literally is Aerith's house then 🤔

 

[Yarbskoo]

Should they? No.

Will they? Probably. I don't think evacuating the sector would be a good idea from a narrative standpoint though.

 

[Jessie]

The Turks were basically Team Rocket. I can't see them being changed to edgy villains with Sephiroth running around.

 

[Kyari]

I feel like they'll probably not make Reno the trigger man for killing Sector 7 given how likeable he is. It always felt super weird in hindsight that he was the one to do the deed.

 

[Moara]

No, I love that they were basically just Team Rocket.

 

[Ushay]

God its been that long I don' even remember who the Turks were in this game, better wiki it!

 

[AuthenticM]

Yes. The Turks are sociopathic mass murderers. They all deserve contempt and death. Fuck their redemption in Advent Children; it was unearned.

 

[Bit_Reactor]

Japan loves making their antagonists work with the protags even if it makes zero effing sense.

Goku literally says to Jiren "I'll never forgive you for hurting my friends" while Piccolo, Vegeta, Frieza and 17 are in his party. So...I dunno.

The Turks could be handled a bit better, as even in the OG game the whole concept was "It's just business" and they even try to attack them briefly in Wutai and they're like "it's our day off, screw you." But I don't think a ton needs to change. After the Midgar events Elena joins and you see them in Kalm, and they are a big part of the plotline leading up to the City of the Ancients, and then as Midgar/Rufus/Shinra start to fall apart to fight Meteor and stuff it makes sort of sense that they'd be less of a bad guy at that point, but I agree it could be handled better.

I think anything past FF7 doesn't count as far as the Turks because it's wildly inconsistent (with Crisis Core being the most "similar" to the source material of the OG FF7) but they're the epitome of "I'm just following orders" and have no actual connection to most the things they do.

I feel like they'll probably not make Reno the trigger man for killing Sector 7 given how likeable he is. It always felt super weird in hindsight that he was the one to do the deed.

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If they pull some bs like the bomb gets set off during the fight like the one with the scorpion at the beginning I'll be upset.

If we can't have bad people do bad things what's the point of telling the story? Hell many bad guys who have done worse are loved by their fandoms. Let's hope he still pushes the button.

 

[spman2099]

There was always an issue here. It isn't narratively satisfying to have characters commit mass murder and then have everyone just sorta forget about it.

I think a lot of people still have to die to keep the scene impactful, but I think the Turks role in it should be altered (even just showing reluctance on their part would be a move in the right direction).

 

[signal]

The Turks were basically Team Rocket. I can't see them being changed to edgy villains with Sephiroth running around.

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No, I love that they were basically just Team Rocket.

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Again this is not about changing the Turks it's about whether or not the party interactions with them should change. Even though I agree that they are as goofy as Team Rocket in the original game rather than AC, the question is do you think the relationship with them makes sense unchanged if you have a considerably stronger connection to the Avalanche members they have a hand in killing.

 

[Leviathan]

Advent Children definitely suggested a trend towards a more friendly, rivalry type relationship then hatred, though it was down the line. AC felt a lot like them trying to express what they couldn't/didn't in the game, so I would expect some of what we saw there to show up again here.

 

[LiK]

They will only flesh them out but I think their relationship will remain the same.

AC tried to make them more likeable but they didn't earn it.

 

[CaviarMeths]

I absolutely love FF7, but this has always bothered me. Getting so chummy with the Turks who murdered thousands of innocent civilians including a few members of your group. It's even worse in the compilation stuff where they're basically jokey comic relief.

 

[signal]

Will they? Probably. I don't think evacuating the sector would be a good idea from a narrative standpoint though.

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Yeah I'm not sure if it's good or bad but you can do some massaging to make it work. Some slums misinformation and confusion combined with simply blaming Avalanche (and now Wutai apparently) for the plate collapse could be worked to have the intended effect of making Avalanche out to be the bad guys, whether or not all of the slums people were killed.

 

[Spehornoob]

After watching that last TGS trailer...yeah, Jessie/Biggs/Wedge are totally not dying this time. It would really suck imo, their deaths were necessary for the dramatic impact and all.

People at Sector 7 could have been evacuated this time to make the Turks less hateful, but those 3 characters 100% needs to die.

Maybe new characters will be introduced to take the avalanche trio place as tension sacrifices, but meh.

If i could choose, would make Turks less friendly and keep all the deaths in the original. But they're too popular for some reason, the opposite is more likely.

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OUt of curiosity, what makes you think this? Nothing I've seen has hinted to me that those characters will survive this. The opposite, in fact. The increased focus on these characters seems to indicate that SquareEnix is going to play their deaths for as much emotional impact as possible.

 

[LiK]

OUt of curiosity, what makes you think this? Nothing I've seen has hinted to me that those characters will survive this. The opposite, in fact. The increased focus on these characters seems to indicate that SquareEnix is going to play their deaths for as much emotional impact as possible.

Click to shrink...

Yea, seems they will flesh them out way more and then it will hit us harder.

 

[APZonerunner]

There's actually no one watching!

You probably mixed up this with the ending cinematic since the room you see Marlene in is basically the same.

Click to shrink...

The funny thing is that this room is identifiable as the Employee Room of the Honey Bee Inn... which is actually inaccessible in the game. The room's data is still there, though - here it is:

Same curtains, same wallpaper, same chairs, etc. Not clear if this is supposed to be this room though or if they simply made the FMV after they decided to cut the room and reused an area that was half-complete.

 

[BebopCola]

I just want more shotgun-wielding Rufus with his attack boi. Make HIM the on-again/off-again character leading the Turks, who flips his shit after he learns his dad ordered the Plate to be dropped. For the second game he can be trying to steer Shinra off the track its on.