In gaming, Kingdom Hearts and Halo suffer from this same problem. The worst part is, after a while that expanded universe stuff becomes so vast and dense, that it becomes near impossible to get into the mainline stuff.
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Do you think saying "Well in Expanded Universe that plot point/lore was explained" is a poor excuse to justify narrative problems?
- Thread starter TheGamingNewsGuy
- Start date
I don't care if things aren't explicitly spelled out for me in a movie. As long as the reason is easily inferable from the context the movie provides. RoS has some dumb shit, but how Palpatine comes back is pretty clear. Palpatine describes his ability at the end of the movie and the beginning sets up some kind of clone farm/research thing going. My mind can put two and two together.
What can't be inferred is literally everything else about Exogol and his plan and even how the heroes arrived there.
What can't be inferred is literally everything else about Exogol and his plan and even how the heroes arrived there.
Yeah while I definitely agree with the general sentiment for the most part, there are a looooot of things people expect to have explained to them that just don't actually need to be explained for the story to work.
Yes, the main series should always be independently cohesive and tell a satisfying, self-contained story.
But this comes with the big caveat that I hate the exposition dumps that modern movies have to do to (presumably) head off the nitpickers who will otherwise pester the creators to explain every little thing until the end of time. Sometimes it's fine for something to be a passing reference, and you can explain it in a tie-in novel for the Comic Book Guys without shitting it up for everyone else.
But this comes with the big caveat that I hate the exposition dumps that modern movies have to do to (presumably) head off the nitpickers who will otherwise pester the creators to explain every little thing until the end of time. Sometimes it's fine for something to be a passing reference, and you can explain it in a tie-in novel for the Comic Book Guys without shitting it up for everyone else.
Absolutely. Anything that requires supplemental media for the story to make sense is a narrative failure. This is why I maintain Donnie Darko is a bad movie, "but see, it makes sense if you read this, this, and this", FOH.
I think there's a difference between a creator saying "this is explained in the EU" to explain why world building or character arcs are missing, and a fan saying "the EU makes this better by expanding it."
I'm not even sure the EU has explained any of that.
I'm not even sure the EU has explained any of that.
The extended universe never counts for me. Cool that it exists, but there's no reasonable expectation that somebody that consumed the original should ever be kept abreast of topics from spin-off stuff.
If it's essential to understand the story, yes.
But that's almost never the case. More often then not EU is just providing more backstory context.
The thing I hate about it is not that it fills perceived gaps, but how EU's and CU's have changed the way people engage with a story. It has led to a trend where people just can't fill in the gaps for themselves anymore. Everything has to have a detailed reasoning or history. Every hint to backstory becomes a question mark that needs to be answered. It sometimes feels like people have forgotten how to watch a movie.
I mean the Palpatine Fortnite thing is the best example of it. It was just a freaking broadcast message that probably got cut from the movie because you don't need to hear the exact content of the message anyway. Marketing probably just saw a chance to recoup it. The movie tells you in the opening crawl a broadcast has been picked up that points to Palpatine still being alive. You SEE Palpatine in basically the first scene, and iirc that scene also already shows you how his body was cloned. You have scenes where the heroes react to the news of the broadcast. The content of the message is something you don't need to understand the story at all. It's like saying you need to hear the prophecy about the one who brings balance to the force word for word or you're unable to understand Episode I.
But that's almost never the case. More often then not EU is just providing more backstory context.
The thing I hate about it is not that it fills perceived gaps, but how EU's and CU's have changed the way people engage with a story. It has led to a trend where people just can't fill in the gaps for themselves anymore. Everything has to have a detailed reasoning or history. Every hint to backstory becomes a question mark that needs to be answered. It sometimes feels like people have forgotten how to watch a movie.
I mean the Palpatine Fortnite thing is the best example of it. It was just a freaking broadcast message that probably got cut from the movie because you don't need to hear the exact content of the message anyway. Marketing probably just saw a chance to recoup it. The movie tells you in the opening crawl a broadcast has been picked up that points to Palpatine still being alive. You SEE Palpatine in basically the first scene, and iirc that scene also already shows you how his body was cloned. You have scenes where the heroes react to the news of the broadcast. The content of the message is something you don't need to understand the story at all. It's like saying you need to hear the prophecy about the one who brings balance to the force word for word or you're unable to understand Episode I.
Pretty much. It's been bad with the Halo and Mass Effect series.
EU content expanding on material is always welcome, but not when it's about making up for deficient main narrative delivery. Shit like needing to read the Star Wars EU novels so that the context behind the New Republic and First Order conflict (plus stakes at hand in the films) can be understood is crap.
EU content expanding on material is always welcome, but not when it's about making up for deficient main narrative delivery. Shit like needing to read the Star Wars EU novels so that the context behind the New Republic and First Order conflict (plus stakes at hand in the films) can be understood is crap.
It depends on how intertwined the EU is to that particular piece of media. If it's something that can really stand on its own and be great without knowledge of other aspects from other media, I'd say it's a really poor excuse. But if the media relies on a knowledge of other media to enjoy it, it's more passable. Like if something happened in John Wick that was explained away in John Wick Hex, that would feel odd. But if it were something in the MCU where you're kind of expected to have seen a good amount of these films already, that seems fine to me. The Palpatine Fortnite event is probably the weirdest instance because I'm not sure how much I'd consider it "expanded universe content", especially when it was such a limited thing, in a property with no other solid ties to the franchise, and can't currently be experienced again.
Edit: Changed the John Wick thing a bit so it's not just a sequel.
Edit: Changed the John Wick thing a bit so it's not just a sequel.
It can often be incomprehensible for people who only watch the films.
I must say though, I admire the Sequel Trilogy's dedication to pissing on it's own expanded universe when it comes to Hux and Phasma. Those comics and books tried so hard to give those characters depth but Abrams and Johnson just didnt care.
I must say though, I admire the Sequel Trilogy's dedication to pissing on it's own expanded universe when it comes to Hux and Phasma. Those comics and books tried so hard to give those characters depth but Abrams and Johnson just didnt care.