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Should some next gen games aim for 120fps?

  • Yes

    Votes: 123 22.8%
  • No

    Votes: 139 25.7%
  • Most TVs don't support 120fps

    Votes: 168 31.1%
  • An option wouldn't hurt

    Votes: 110 20.4%

  • Total voters
    540

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
8,948
With XSX advertising "up to" 120fps. Do you think that games that usually require high framerates fast reflexes such as fighting games should target the highest framerate the consoles' advertise instead of resolution and visual effects?

Secondary question do you think there should be 120fps performance options for those offering performance options?
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,944
Technically feasible but doubtful in practice due to the emphasis on standardization for competitive play and greater availability of 60Hz displays.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Shouldn't be weighed down by people's TVs. If there's industry wide support from TV manufacturers they should absolutely support it, as it'll become an expected standard over the course of the gen.
 

tapedeck

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,976
No.

Rock solid 60fps is fine, it's what everyone is used to and what the vast majority of people's equipment supports.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,639
unless the game is an FPS I have a hard time telling much difference after about 100 fps, and anything between 60 and 100 is negligible.

In FPS it's another matter, of course, as I said
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
As much as I want this, most TVs don't support 120Hz yet. Just maintain a rock-solid 60fps for the time being.
 

Deleted member 13560

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,087
It would he nice to have the option. I'd like to feel how responsive a fighting game would be at 120 FPS. They could have the game be capped off at 60 during online matches.

Tekken 7 seems to not have game logic tied to FPS. The game doesn't run in slow motion when playing at lower FPS. I found this out this out when trying to take 8K screen shots.

So I wonder if someone nodded in 120FPS to that game. It would be cool just to see how fluid the game could be if it works.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Unfortunately no, but not for the dismissive reasons above (120Hz DOES make a difference). It would be forward thinking (because eventually all these 60Hz games are gonna be a bit disappointing to go back to - they already are for PC gamers)

But it is because the fighting game community isn't ready for it yet. The vast majority of displays out there are 60hz. It would make competitive fighting games too costly to enter.
 

Quad Lasers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,542
I've never totally understood why different players playing at different framerates is an issue in a fighting game. Do input windows become different? Do two different players playing at different framerates destroy rollback?

If pros can play at different uncapped framerates in something like Quake 3 or CSGO, I've never really understood what's up with fighting games.
 

Papertoonz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,256
no as most people pointed out it's much easier to get a monitor that runs at 60Hz then 120Hz so no

I've never totally understood why different players playing at different framerates is an issue in a fighting game. Do input windows become different? Do two different players playing at different framerates destroy rollback?

If pros can play at different uncapped framerates in something like Quake 3 or CSGO, I've never really understood what's up with fighting games.

in fighting game attacks are measured by how many frames they appear for

they are split up into 3 different parts, start up (the animation which plays before the attack), Active frames (the point of which the attack is out and can hit the opponent) and recovery frames (the animation which plays after the attack is done but before the character goes but to netural)

changing the frame rate would make it that attacks would either no longer be out for the right amount of frames or speed up/slow down depending if you increase or decrease the frame rate
 
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Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
imagining 1 frame links at 120hz and wanting to die inside

the extra smoothness would be nice, but it's not really necessary for the kind of motion happening
 

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,375
Fighting scene needs less hurdles for people to get in and participate, not more
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,829
Australia
I think it's a good idea. The games would likely still be fine at 60fps for casual play, and competitive gamers would just need to get 120Hz displays. As long as both consoles support any basic 120hz Freesync monitor, that's probably not going to be much worse than getting a decent arcade stick since it'll be useful outside of fighting games too.
 

Pottuvoi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,062
Sure.

Run game play in 120hz at all time and output at 60hz for TVs that cannot display 120hz.
There is also possibilities in alignment of invincibility frames and such to 60hz if possible. (for all players.)
 

Mullet2000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
Toronto
I would like to see a fighting game built from the ground up to default to 120hz. But until you can safely assume everyone has a 120hz TV/monitor, you can't do it.
 

Deleted member 13560

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,087
I wonder why other competitive communities strive for higher framerates but the FGC relegates itself to 60FPS. Every person I know personally that plays fighting games has 120FPS+ display and they aren't even competitive players. But then again they do all play on PC so they want higher framerates for other games.

Although you'd think in a competitive environment they would want the best response time and more framedata to work with.

I'm not trying to be disingenuous here. I understand some FGC tournament organizers don't have 120hz displays and it would be costly for them to ser up the infrastructure to support it. At the same time, most of the major tournaments I've watched on stream are usually played on high framerate monitors.

You also have to think, even with the new consoles, developers would have to pair back visuals in order to achieve those framerates. I'm guessing the majority of casual fighting game players do enjoy better visuals over performance and that would probably sell more units to the masses than trying to market performance. But they could they could have a high performance mode that pairs back the visuals in order to achieve higher performance. Most players in other competitive games lower visual fidelity all the time in order to achieve higher framerates and better visual clarity that can be muddled by post processing techniques.

changing the frame rate would make it that attacks would either no longer be out for the right amount of frames or speed up/slow down depending if you increase or decrease the frame rate

If you don't tie your game's logic to framerate the game won't speed up or slow down. That said, the player with running at 120FPS would have the advantage since they would have double the data to work with and better response times. So it would be pretty unfair if both players wouldn't be running at the same framerate.
 
Last edited:

Quad Lasers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,542
in fighting game attacks are measured by how many frames they appear for

they are split up into 3 different parts, start up (the animation which plays before the attack), Active frames (the point of which the attack is out and can hit the opponent) and recovery frames (the animation which plays after the attack is done but before the character goes but to netural)

changing the frame rate would make it that attacks would either no longer be out for the right amount of frames or speed up/slow down depending if you increase or decrease the frame rate

I'm aware that most attacks/movements in fighters are denoted by "frames", but what I don't really understand is why this causes an issue that other games don't need to account for. If something takes 1 frame in at 60hz and 2 frames at 120hz, those actions still ultimately come out at the same intervals of time, right?

Like I assume there are message board dorks from 2000 that used to obsess over how long a railgun would take to fire or the exact amount of time it took for a quad damage to regenerate. What's the fundamental difference between how other competitive games handle this stuff and how fighting games handle it? I'm wondering if this is just one of those outmoded things of developers tying their gamespeed logic to framerate.
 

scottbeowulf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,347
United States
We haven't hit 60 consistently yet. You really think 120 is realistic? We should get to 4k/60fps on all games, then maybe. Most people don't even have a 4k/120 compatible tv and wouldn't even know what that was.
 

packy17

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,901
changing the frame rate would make it that attacks would either no longer be out for the right amount of frames or speed up/slow down depending if you increase or decrease the frame rate

Couldn't they just develop the game with this in mind and make a 60fps mode and possibly one to two other locked frame modes that account for the increases? I get that it's a lot more testing, but 60 has been on the slow side on PC for a while now and console is going to catch up eventually.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,680
We haven't hit 60 consistently yet. You really think 120 is realistic? We should get to 4k/60fps on all games, then maybe. Most people don't even have a 4k/120 compatible tv and wouldn't even know what that was.

Aren't most fighting games 60fps locked nowadays?
If Gears of War 5 can be 120FPS, then I don't see why a 1 on 1 fighter can't be
 

Skyebaron

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,416
I would love to see a fighting game created for 120fps. Built from the ground up, not conversions from 60fps. A new Killer Instinct would be a prime choice and good marketing for Microsoft.
 
OP
OP
T002 Tyrant

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
8,948
We haven't hit 60 consistently yet. You really think 120 is realistic? We should get to 4k/60fps on all games, then maybe. Most people don't even have a 4k/120 compatible tv and wouldn't even know what that was.

Well I was thinking about prioritising framerate over resolution so even if they dropped way below 4k people would get the performance target. Perhaps in a performance mode.
 

Jer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,196
No, because it would break my old man brain that has spent the last 20 years thinking in terms of 60 FPS. 20 frame jabs and 30 frame launchers? Madness!
 

NeoChaos

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,273
NorCal
Fighting games, even Western-developed ones, are still largely developed with game logic tied to framerate. That means different framerates mean the game runs at different speeds. It's probably not happening barring a cataclysm that destroys all sub-120hz displays and makes their future manfacturing impossible.
 

Deleted member 13560

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,087
Is there a way to force higher framerates in Unreal 4 games that are capped at 60? I'd like to test out Tekken 7 to see if it breaks game speed above 60.

Tekken 7 is the only fighting game I know that doesn't go into slow motion when ran at a lower framerate. I'd like to see if the game's logic remains the same at higher framerates.

I know that editing the engine.ini could probably get this done, but I'm not smart enough to pull something off like that.
 

Papertoonz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,256
I'm aware that most attacks/movements in fighters are denoted by "frames", but what I don't really understand is why this causes an issue that other games don't need to account for. If something takes 1 frame in at 60hz and 2 frames at 120hz, those actions still ultimately come out at the same intervals of time, right?

Like I assume there are message board dorks from 2000 that used to obsess over how long a railgun would take to fire or the exact amount of time it took for a quad damage to regenerate. What's the fundamental difference between how other competitive games handle this stuff and how fighting games handle it? I'm wondering if this is just one of those outmoded things of developers tying their gamespeed logic to framerate.

well the issue would then be you have to make 2 data sets instead of 1 which cost more money and time then for both the devs of the game and people making resource websites for the games they play

as for comparing to other competitive games, fighting games are different cause you can play against some one on the same system unlike say shooters where every one needs there own system. Fighting games are just different in that way since more players are just used to everyone playing with the same setup cause you used to have to use the same machines with other people, there for fighting games set a standard for it's frames rates since that how arcades used to be, if the arcade system ran at 60fps you both played at 60fps
 

Zukuu

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,809
An option would be cool. But it would probably lead to major issues. You'd have to enforce 120fps vs 120fps and 60/60 matches to keep it fair, so it would throw off your timing online a lot.

Due to online being the primary way to play these days you'd have a bigger impact if you'd generally make the game a bit slower by increasing startups / recoveries by 3F across the board.
 

DanteMenethil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,054
Theres nothing stopping fighting games from using conventional time lapse for attack properties. A couple fighting games already do (all fighting games not coupling game logic to fps)