Do you think Naughty Dog will deliver comparable AI and animation quality in the retail build of The Last of Us Part II?

[BrickArts295]

Going by previous E3's. Visuals and Animations will probably get an upgrade (which is insane but we seen it happen before) but the jury is still out on the AI. TLOU's E3 Demo felt like smoke screen in terms of AI after the release but after playing the game so many times during the years, the Demo was just too scripted rather than being all fake like I originally thought it was. Many of those clever E3 AI moments are actually in the game, the problem is that, unless you do something specific at certain parts of the game, the AI won't show off their cleaver moments. I like one where the AI will grab your legs and pull you down when you stand on top of a desk and I only saw that after like 6th playthough of the game. It took a few playthroughs on grounded to finally get something close enough to the E3 demo but still not as clean or linear.

Luckily I think their AI has improved based on U4/LL. I noticed the enemy AI being a bit more tactical on higher difficulties. If ND can pull off the AI shown in TLOU2, I will be extremely impressed.

 

[Mendrox]

From the E3 gameplay trailer back then? No.

 

[Praetorpwj]

Alienous Have you see this:

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I never knew you could get on a bus during the school fight.

 

[OléGunner]

Yes, it'll be close enough to the E3 demo barring the scripted instances ND used to show off their skill/systems in place e.g. Ellie turning an enemy into an arrow shot.
For the animation especially I'm expecting world class results.

 

[Adamska]

No reason whatsoever to doubt Naughty Dog. We'll see once the game's out of course, but these guys are consistent.

 

[ChewbieFR]

Take this as a choregraphy. It is possible the animations will be comparable but everything will not flow as well, as they said themselves to Kotaku.

So at an E3 demo you take complicated systems that are random and we're making them deterministic and we play it a lot and rehearse it and choreograph it, so we're showing off very specific things. But those are all real systems that players will experience when they play the game.

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TL;DR: yes and no.

 

[monmagman]

Comparable?...........well,yea,lol.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I could imagine if Ellie was kinda like Ashley...

More simplified: Joel could give her orders to hide, follow, lay down, & at the same time she could also still throwing bricks whatnot.

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I'm almost certain that I remember them talking about how they didn't like the idea of players telling Ellie what she should do. They wanted her to just be able to do what she wanted, of course that also comes at the "price" that she won't cause you to break stealth as enemies won't detect her then.

 

[Bede-x]

I never expect final games to live up to E3 demos, unless you can clearly see the demo looking like a game in development. The PR departments are afraid of a negative reception if they show that, because as we all know games obviously look unfinished when in development. Instead we get these polished vertical slices or unrealistic tech demos that have little in common with where the game is at that point in development. Anthem's market might look lively and dynamic, Crackdown 3 has destruction unlike anything seen before and Uncharted 4 is targeting 60fps. Then the games release and reality hits.

It's how the industry operates.

 

[Troublematic]

It might look similar in some places, but most of the gameplay will likely not reach the same quality levels. That's just how pre-release stuff is, it's supposed to show the very best on offer, every trick in the book in a minute or two, but the moment to moment gameplay won't be full of bespoke animation work. There's no point in engaging in hyperbole, the game will look good and be a jump forwards in animation quality, but it's still a current gen game. I expect RDR2 level with some extras that are afforded by a more concentrated gameplay design.

 

[Melchiah]

Skeptics often use The Last of Us (PS3) reveal gameplay as an argument against Part 2's E3 presentation. What do you good people make of what we've seen so far?

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I'd wager the sceptics have missed these in The Last of Us:




EDIT: Oh, I just saw you had already posted it above. :)

 

[GymWolf86]

I watched again the tlou1 reveal and the tlou2 reveal, the ia in tlou1 to me is more impressive than tlou2...

The part when the enemy escape from joel and play hide and seek with him is next-next gen ia, nothing in the tlou2 reveal is on the same level to me...

Also people really believe the "advanced ia not fun to fight" excuse??

People is accustomed with human ia in multyplayer games but a good artifical intelligence is too much to handle, yeah no.

 

[Zhukov]

And scripting doesn't mean it isn't AI.

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I mean scripted for the sake of the demo.

Same for the bit where Ellie is hiding under the truck. The timing is all just a bit too perfect.

However, like I said before, I'll be happy if I'm proven wrong.

 

[steviestar3]

After the first game I don't trust anything they show pre-release. The AI in the first game's E3 demo was outlandish compared to what we got in the actual game.

I still like the Last of Us and will probably play the sequel though.

 

[Hogendaz85]

animation quality and attention to detail and gore probably yes, not sure about the perfect pixar quality blending tho.
advanced IA? nah

they can still use the weak excuse that an advanced IA is not fun to battle against even when one of the selling point of their reveal gameplay is indeed the advanced IA (same story as tlou1)

yeah i'm a bit harsh but after tlou they don't have my complete trust about IA...

also, how can you make a topic about the incredible features of tlou2 without the most impressive gif by far

this guy is more realistic than kratos and he is a fucking regular enemy...

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I like how the force of the arrow affects his body at the point of impact...oh wait!

 

[Thera]

The animation, I have no doubt about that.
The AI, probably not.

 

[Thera]

People is accustomed with human ia in multyplayer games but a good artifical intelligence is too much to handle, yeah no.

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In multiplayer game, when you are 1vs more than one, there is a good chance you will die.

 

[GymWolf86]

In multiplayer game, when you are 1vs more than one, there is a good chance you will die.

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But the tlou reveal was not on the same level of human ia, only smarter then most games and surely most fun to engage compared with the final game...

I will fucking love an enemy with some self-preservation that play hide and seek with me...

It was the highlight of the reveal for my taste, i love advanced ia.

Is alien isolation a worst or less fun game to play because the aliens is so smart? I really don't think so...

 

[Jakisthe]

I'm shocked this hasn't been posted (that I saw):

A frame-by-frame breakdown of the trailer and the likely tech they used from a senior animator at Motive, previously at Visceral/Ubi, where he says that he thinks it's something they can do.

 

[Thera]

But the tlou reveal was not on the same level of human ia, only smarter then most games and surely most fun to engage compared with the final game...

I will fucking love an enemy with some self-preservation that play hide and seek with me...

It was the highlight of the reveal for my taste, i love advanced ia.

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I am 100% with you on that, but it doesn't mean you need to have too advance AI.
My big problem with AI is the lack of communication between ennemy, the lack of reacting to what is happening (baring seeing you or being shoot at). When you separate guard, the other one should think "where is he, I should check".
And I hate the fact everybody on the map know where you are if one ennemy spot you. MGS2 introduce the radio call (and the fact you can broke the radio) and it was awesome, 18 years ago !!

 

[Asbsand]

I don't think it will be anywhere near that quality.

 

[jett]

I'd like to believe the animation will remain at that level. I don't think we've seen any particularly great AI though.

The thing is that trailer was highly directed, with the person behind the controller playing in a very specific way to achieve the most "cinematic" gameplay experience possible. So it's quite possible the game won't seem quite as exciting most of the time in a regular environment anyways.

 

[Ciao]

If you break it down, it looks like they can do it, but with a collossal amount of work for a full game. The animation system seems very intricate but not impossible too me.

 

[fanboy]

I mean, what's presented in that e3 demo by the AI that hasn't been in a MGS game?

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I still havent played any but i seriously doubt it has AI on this level.

 

[eXistor]

A lot of the footage in the gifs looks impressive, but it's also not something the player has control over, you just initiate the attack and the game takes over and shows several seconds of non-interactive animation. It looks impressive, but from a gameplay standpoint it's not.

I'll happily be proven wrong, but pretty graphics and animation mean very little if the game doesn't have the design to back it up. I'm sure the game'll be good and up to their standards, but I'd rather see for myself. In the end I've never agreed with any scores ND games have gotten; most people just seem infatuated by the tech used instead of the actual design of the game, which for me has never been that impressive.

 

[Deleted member 13328]

I'll always be skeptical when someone is trying to sell something to me, doesn't matter who's selling.

 

[DevilMayGuy]

A lot of the footage in the gifs looks impressive, but it's also not something the player has control over, you just initiate the attack and the game takes over and shows several seconds of non-interactive animation. It looks impressive, but from a gameplay standpoint it's not.

I'll happily be proven wrong, but pretty graphics and animation mean very little if the game doesn't have the design to back it up. I'm sure the game'll be good and up to their standards, but I'd rather see for myself. In the end I've never agreed with any scores ND games have gotten; most people just seem infatuated by the tech used instead of the actual design of the game, which for me has never been that impressive.

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Yeah, nobody likes actually playing these games, so it makes sense that they've always gotten great scores. Literally every reviewer and most users are simply blind to the artifice of it all, and only you have been able to pierce the veil. It's why TLoU has a very healthy multiplayer component, because it's just so pretty even though the game design is 2/10 at best.

 

[Clocian]

people doubting naughty dog again lol. when will you all learn! Yes the animation will be like the E3 demo. The AI as well, it just won't play out EXACTLY like the E3 demo in that particular area because...it's a showcase demo

 

[Ichi]

I mean scripted for the sake of the demo.

Same for the bit where Ellie is hiding under the truck. The timing is all just a bit too perfect.

However, like I said before, I'll be happy if I'm proven wrong.

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huh? you do know that everything people show at E3 is choreographed, yes?

pretty sure what ND showed at E3 was a vertical slice of the different things you can expect from TLOU2,

 

[Gvon]

I think it will be one of those situations that all the systems are in place for the final game but the section won't necessarily play out in the same way.

If it does and ND pull it off the massive Kudos to them.

One of my favorite things about the first game was playing on the hardest difficulty, dying, and having the AI do things differently based on where I went and how I approached a situation. I can't see that side of the game being worse than the first game so I'm optimistic!

 

[s y]

I still havent played any but i seriously doubt it has AI on this level.

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Everything from the enemies communicating with each other to them searching for Ellie isn't anything that hasn't been done well in a MGS title.

It' the animation quality that makes the AI look impressive in that demo imo.

 

[Brix]

I believe naughty dog is the best so I think everything will look & play like the e3 demo.

 

[Wonderbrah]

Just to be clear, we're talking about this E3 gameplay demo of The Last of Us 1?



If so, nothing in that demo looks scripted to me. Plays exactly like the final game did.

 

[Deleted member 34788]

Yeah, they'll nail it.

 

[eXistor]

Yeah, nobody likes actually playing these games, so it makes sense that they've always gotten great scores. Literally every reviewer and most users are simply blind to the artifice of it all, and only you have been able to pierce the veil. It's why TLoU has a very healthy multiplayer component, because it's just so pretty even though the game design is 2/10 at best.

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If that's what you got out of my post all the more power to you, no need to be so sarcastic about it.

 

[The_R3medy]

They won't, but they won't get crucified for it like any other dev in that situation would either.

 

[Osa15]

Man those gif looks amazing and this game is lit

 

[Heckler456]

The individual things? Sure. Will it be as smooth? Probably not, it's still a game.

 

[Dash Kappei]

It depends on how we interpret "comparable". I don't expect it to be exactly the same quality, no, but I'm sure it'll be an industry leading implementation

of equivalent quality.

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Then no. It won't.

 

[Coiote]

No, I believe they won't unfortunately. And they will use the same excuse for the first TLOU AI downgrade.

 

[Ænima]

I don't think this is correct. The sequence at the end of the demo, of Joel grabbing an enemy's weapon and wrestling him to the ground and being tackled and choked by another enemy isn't a sequence that can occur in the actual game, is it?

Or the part where Ellie stuns an enemy with a brick. In the demo Joel sprints and knocks the enemy against a wall then drags that enemy to an adjacent desk to finish him off. I don't think that can occur in the game.

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Both things can happen, is not a scripted event eighter, enemies can grab and wrestle Joel and Ellie if its near can help. You may not see them if you manage to keep your distance.

This is a video of the final game in the demo section.



NaughtyDog are freaking wizards, dont know how ppl still doubt them.

 

[MP!]

I still don't buy it... I'm firmly in the camp that it's less AI and more scripted events ...

 

[-PyramidSong]

I'm shocked this hasn't been posted (that I saw):

A frame-by-frame breakdown of the trailer and the likely tech they used from a senior animator at Motive, previously at Visceral/Ubi, where he says that he thinks it's something they can do.

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Thanks for share. Watched all. People at Naughty Dog are really really talented.

 

[Sparks]

Eh, the bald dude with the hammer has that covered and in theory the AI should be able to see Ellie move behind the shelves as you can see through them.
Not complaining though, I totally get that AI simply isn't that advanced yet. Maybe next-gen. And calling it "poor" in my initial reaction might have been a bit too harsh I have to admit.

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Maybe next-gen AI will be able to see through shelves.

What are you talking about... haha.

It's way more impressive for an AI system to have cognizance to gauge from her own perspective the space Ellie is at and have self awareness, than to just track a character that passes behind something.

 

[Majukun]

The first last of us was a bit exaggerated in the pre release material if I remember correctly, so I expect the same here

 

[PlayerOne]

Guys compare the lost legacy reveal rooftop fight with literally any gameplay of it, the difference should be about the same in tlou2, maybe bit less.

 

[Memento]

A lot of the footage in the gifs looks impressive, but it's also not something the player has control over, you just initiate the attack and the game takes over and shows several seconds of non-interactive animation. It looks impressive, but from a gameplay standpoint it's not.

I'll happily be proven wrong, but pretty graphics and animation mean very little if the game doesn't have the design to back it up. I'm sure the game'll be good and up to their standards, but I'd rather see for myself. In the end I've never agreed with any scores ND games have gotten; most people just seem infatuated by the tech used instead of the actual design of the game, which for me has never been that impressive.

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... what?

Are you saying the game is not responsive? Because TLOU is one of the most responsive TPS out there and motion matching is supposed to make it even more responsive.

 

[Memento]

Double post.

 

[eXistor]

... what?

Are you saying the game is not responsive? Because TLOU is one of the most responsive TPS out there and motion matching is supposed to make it even more responsive.

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Look, I'm not saying they're bad games. I personally don't particularly think ND games play particularly well. They play well enough, but that's not what their strengths are. Some games have super-tight controls and are fun to pick up and play. I'm of the belief that ND games have fun stories, good visuals and are fun rollercoaster rides. That's what they do well, I don't feel they nail the control-aspect very well, but for the type of games they make, that's alright. I like them fine in their own way and I'm looking forward to TLoU2, but I'm going in expecting good graphics, animations and a fun story and engaging characters, not award-winning gameplay. Maybe this is the one to buck the trend, we'll see. I know people don't agree, but it's what I think having played most of their games...except Way of the Warrior, that was a shit-show all around.

 

[Dancrane212]

Teaser was in-engine but it wasn't running real-time on a single PS4. It was a target render.

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