Do you think it's irresponsible to "reopen" anytime soon?

[Darknight]

I mean, that's how it is now haha in most places, grocery stores are obviously open, gas stations, etc. You support the way it is now then. I don't think there's anywhere you can't get necessities.

Click to shrink...

But not everything is a necessity and maybe some of those can slowly start to open in at least some limited capacity rather than full on shut down. That's what some states are doing now by slowly easing some of the restrictions. It's not a full on opening, but it's not the same almost everything is closed either. It's somewhere in between which isn't the same as your binary poll question.

 

[M. Wallace]

I still don't see how sports are going to work. If one player on one team is tested positive, the entire team has to quarantine for two weeks.

 

[ChippyTurtle]

I voted reopen but it's got to be in stages and gradual. Between the Republicans not giving any money and the shutdown, it's rapidly running towards a headlong collision with the fact people need income so at this point, we absolutely need to have gameplans and begin to reopen based on medical factors.

 

[Deleted member 10629]

The longer people keep ignoring lockdowns the longer it will take to return to normal. The fact that we put the 'economy' at the same level of value than human life indicates that we're fucking it up.

 

[justin haines]

they could slowly reopen but they won't.
I'm sitting at work right now but getting laid off for the 3rd time in 4 weeks because nobody has a clue what to do.
The uncertainty and unknown scare people so see y'all in 3 years from now when the world reopens.

but hey McDonald's still open last I checked so have a happy meal and watch some Netflix I guess,

 

[Psittacus]

I voted reopen but it's got to be in stages and gradual. Between the Republicans not giving any money and the shutdown, it's rapidly running towards a headlong collision with the fact people need income so at this point, we absolutely need to have gameplans and begin to reopen based on medical factors.

Click to shrink...

The US lost it's chance to reopen gradually and safely months ago. Every country that is easing restrictions based on medical factors is able to do so because their case load is relatively under control and they have confidence that they can contain outbreaks. The US's case load is so high that "beginning to reopen based on medical factors" means not doing it at all.

 

[Ecotic]

I'm for the nuanced in-between stance - reopening with as many precautions as can be taken, with massive government spending and assistance, and not yet for the hardest-hit places. Broadly though, I don't think we can wait until we have a vaccine at an indeterminate point in the future to fully open up, or even wait a few more months, people are getting hammered and destroyed economically out there. As is we're looking at another generational disaster, like what happened to people who fell behind socioeconomically in the post-2008 world and their lives are forever stunted. There's an unbelievable amount of negative externalities that are associated with an event like this, and we'll still be learning of the severity of the socioeconomic consequences for a very long time after COVID-19 is gone.

Then again, if we open up people will die that wouldn't have if we had stayed closed, so my answer comes with a heavy dose of personal consternation. I've gone back and forth over the past couple of weeks. It's a horrible trade-off.

 

[adj_noun]

I'm more or less ok with this:

I expect us to go back and forth between phases rather than on a straight march to four and beyond, but it's as reasonable a plan as I've seen.

 

[Deleted member 12790]

yes

 

[I Don't Like]

This is another topic on ERA where the room for any nuance has quickly disappeared. It's not a yes/no situation. See: places that aren't US.

Click to shrink...

When it comes to contagious viruses that are pandemics it is, in fact, a yes/no situation since "reopening" places past what we have now with essential businesses still open but serving customers in limited ways just means you'll have people in reopened areas getting infected and then going other places to spread it.

Don't throw around the word "nuance" everywhere. It's in the same vein as claiming nothing is really known and everything is just relative. It fucking isn't.

 

[randompasserby]

Reopening is inevitable.

At this point I think the more relevant questions to me personally is
-Do you trust people enough to follow health & safety protocol conscientiously?
-Do you trust the corresponding health authority to monitor and implement detailed and effective guidelines?
-Do you trust the government or businesses to strictly measure and enforce the GRADUAL reopening to a certain standard of safety?

Depressingly, the answer for me is a resounding NO.
So stay at home the rest of the year it is for me and every loved ones I can convince.

 

[RivalGT]

Yes, unless you have a good plan that says otherwise.

 

[Jadentheman]

I would say yes. I'm on the fence of compromising but only if they have protocols in place like South Korea, China, and Taiwan. So far all the states that want to open up completely also are making no effort for testing, contact tracing, and making necessary equipment like face masks optional. That is insanely dangerous. Even more deciding because some vocal MAGA idiot said so.

 

[Malleymal]

If we were diligent and had a competent government, we would be able to do it the right way, but instead we have what we have and people are fighting to open up with the thought that it is over.

Just stupid.

 

[Deleted member 63846]

Yeah... I kind of went off on a proprietor of a bingo establiment ealrier over I guess Google business chats. At first I got a lengthy canned response that was insulting, so I responded to that, then got a more personal response, and responded to that. They probably won't give another one. Oh well. I just detailed how flagrantly irresponsible they were being. And they basically are just like, "It's our own choice." And I'm like "You are endangering us all." And they're like "Only some are in danger." And then I'm like "That includes my child", and then they're like "..."

 

[BringBackSonics]

Yes. sounds like Newsom in California is caving to the protesters and now wants to reopen restaurants for dine in. 2nd wave gonna be lit.

Click to shrink...

Even the "good" states are caving to demands. New York is going to end up opening way way way too early and thousands of more people will die.

What are they going to say? In the fall just go, "whoops!" And then close again? It's bullshit.

Click to shrink...

What does this even mean? From the start the western states pact said they would follow the science and data and work together on a phased in approach to reopening parts of society, that certain metrics have to be met.

There is a wrong way to reopen society, and the right way. Washington and I believe California/Oregon are doing it the right way. Scientists and health professionals this is the right way. (Contact tracing, isolation and testing).

Washington has almost 1400 trained professionals to contact trace:

Washington has 1,371 people trained and ready to begin tracking down the coronavirus

Gov. Inslee said contact tracers have been carefully screened and have signed confidentiality agreements.

www.seattletimes.com

Restaurants will need to contact trace as part of condition for dine in:

Washington Gives Restaurants Set of Reopening Requirements [UPDATED]

The plan, which now includes voluntary logs, is meant to facilitate contact tracing

seattle.eater.com

 

[Rory]

It's irresponsible for Germany the way they do it, and they are WAY ahead of America.

 

[big_z]

People have largely given up on social distancing. With the exception of lines outside of select stores and the very rare mask most everyone is back to behaving like normal. I won't be surprised if we pay for it come fall when flu season picks up again.

 

[The Albatross]

Depends on the state and area but for the overwhelming majority of America, the answer is no, we're not ready to open. It has to be slow and tiered, metrics have to be hit.

I live in Massachusetts, the third hardest hit state, we've been in isolation since mid-March (March 12 was the last "normal" day for me). Our peak is just starting to fall *now*. Like statewide we've just had 3 consecutive days of falling cases for the first time since ... January.

There are places in the US seeing 1000% and 600% growth right now, positions that Mass, NY Nj and others were in 6-8 weeks ago. And it's still not done here. Almost all of us know someone who either has the virus or who has died from it. It's no joke.

 

[MinerArcaniner]

It's still too early, and the government should be doing everything in it's power to provide aid to workers, businesses and state/local governments until it is.

 

[demosthenes]

We're nowhere near ready. Some particular states with low population density could manage it, but places like IL, NY, CA and MA should not be reopening. It's incredibly irresponsible and it's dooming thousands to unnecessary death.

Click to shrink...

NYC is like 5% of the land of NYS and 80% of the population. What about WNY? Southern tier? Adirondacks?

OP is specifically vague. We should be opening responsibly. Where areas are ready and have a plan in place. NYS is doing this.

 

[The Albatross]

People have largely given up on social distancing. With the exception of lines outside of select stores and the very rare mask most everyone is back to behaving like normal. I won't be surprised if we pay for it come fall when flu season picks up again.

Click to shrink...

I'm curious where you live?

People are still very strict about it here. Ive seen one unmasked person in public over the last 2 weeks and I gave her the world's biggest stink eye.

 

[zombiejames]

I honestly don't get it. Take Apple for example. They were one of the first retailers to close their stores. This was before any official lockdowns or anything. Tomorrow they're re-opening in Alabama. This is Alabama:

 

[jarekx]

Yes. Our testing and tracing is so terrible. We've done nothing with the current lockdown to truly prepare ourselves to handle being open.

 

[andymcc]

I'm curious where you live?

People are still very strict about it here. Ive seen one unmasked person in public over the last 2 weeks and I gave her the world's biggest stink eye.

Click to shrink...

i'm in columbus, oh and no one gives a shit it seems.

 

[Deleted member 63846]

That's how the graphs look in my state as well. Not sure who is looking at this and then going: "... And we're good. All in the clear. Let the bingo resume!"

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

I think we need a lot more resilience in a shut down. It's not safe to reopen — this virus is capable of nearly uninhibited and difficult-to-detect spread and can have symptoms severe enough to cause mass hospitalization.

"Most people who have it recover," a lot pro-reopen folks say. But don't forget that some survivors were still bad enough off that they required hospitalization, and there's still an equipment shortage, a lack of PPE for the people providing critical care to those hospitalized and the full range of other urgent human health needs that still completely exist that might be absolutely obstructed if this gets out of hand.

Our health care systems are not at capacity to handle this thing unchecked, and if we do go unchecked, not only will more people die of the actual virus itself, but some people might die due to inadequate care resources for any range of preventable health problems.

This isn't the deadliest virus out there, but it does harbor characteristics of being one of the most successful because it can spread and disrupt human life just enough to wreak havoc on our society and institutions if we carry on as normal.

 

[Soma]

My boss just texted us that we're planning on reopening the bar around June 1st with "new changes and policies".

I'm curious to hear about these changes but I'm definitely apprehensive about going back to working at a bar so soon.

 

[Sulik2]

If we had mass testing and contact tracing coordibated at the federal level it would maybe be ok to start opening some things. We have none of that, second wave will hit after memorial day in many places and we will just end up back on sah.

 

[Artdayne]

I don't really know the answer to this quite honestly. The impact that this is having on the economy is profound, what's far more irresponsible is how our economy is ordered, why something like this is such a disaster in the first place.

COVID-19 expert: Coronavirus will rage 'until it infects everybody it possibly can'

Michael Osterhom, an infectious disease researcher, warns up to 70 percent of people might become infected by COVID-19 unless a vaccine works.

www.usatoday.com

It simply might be the case that the only way to get past this virus is if 65-70% of the population has had it, and we're nowhere near that yet. There needs to be a way for the economy to function in as responsible of a way as possible while we make this virus manageable for the hospitals. I'm not entirely sure that furthering a shutdown for a lot longer helps us. It's all a very unprecedented time and what really needs to happen is the government needs to provide a lot more money to people to keep things afloat.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

it's a mistake to see the "reopen" position as originating from a place of stupidity rather than a place of callousness. there are crystal-clear decisions being made to sacrifice human lives.

 

[MrBS]

In Australia and we are already starting the process but hopefully it will be taken slow enough, early results have not been promising with people swarming beaches with no regards to social distancing. Hopefully restaurants opening having limited numbers this weekend goes better.

 

[fragamemnon]

I had to vote no on this. This needs to not be stay closed/open everything up, but stay closed and open up with a plan that takes into account risks in doing so along the way.

You need metrics to track what opens and when with science behind it, but you want to take every opportunity to give people back normalcy when it's safer to do so that they don't seek out normalcy in clearly unsafe ways.

Some places-rural and exurban areas in particular are ready to reopen much of their economy. Testing is not really in terrible shape at the moment and only gets better as demand increases nationwide, and opening up puts more demand on employers and workers getting tested for regulatory compliance or safety reasons. Tracking is something we're going to have to learn and scale by doing-it's not good enough to just say we don't have 100,000 trackers so we can't do it, you have to start somewhere so you can figure out what the best way to train them and track this is for American towns.

 

[Darknight]

What does this even mean? From the start the western states pact said they would follow the science and data and work together on a phased in approach to reopening parts of society, that certain metrics have to be met.

There is a wrong way to reopen society, and the right way. Washington and I believe California/Oregon are doing it the right way. Scientists and health professionals this is the right way. (Contact tracing, isolation and testing).

Washington has almost 1400 trained professionals to contact trace:

Washington has 1,371 people trained and ready to begin tracking down the coronavirus

Gov. Inslee said contact tracers have been carefully screened and have signed confidentiality agreements.

www.seattletimes.com

Restaurants will need to contact trace as part of condition for dine in:

Washington Gives Restaurants Set of Reopening Requirements [UPDATED]

The plan, which now includes voluntary logs, is meant to facilitate contact tracing

seattle.eater.com

Click to shrink...

It's the timing of everything Newsom has been doing that seems like he's caving. He announces a staged reopening plan on April 28th with Phase 2 supposedly weeks away still. He closes beaches on May 1st. Protests happen about the beaches. Protests happen about the shelter in place. Counties start to push back and say they're opening anyway. Suddenly we move from weeks away from Phase 2 to just days away and as of now actually being implemented. I don't even think dine in restaurants were supposed to be a part of Phase 2 either since they seemed to stress Phase 2 was still about curbside pickup.

On top of that, when he announced Phase 2 was starting, he said it was guidance but local governments would be able to overrule the state's guidance with stricter rules and that local areas should abide by their local governments orders. Elon Musk goes off about wanting to reopen, declares they're moving out, and then says they're going to open anyway and then suddenly Newsom is saying they're going to work with Alameda County so that Tesla can open which contradicts his previous stance that local governments can dictate how to proceed.

It's things like these which looks like Newsom is backing off due to the pressure being put on him to reopen things. He keeps saying he's going by the data and the science, but there's been sudden changes in plans and statements after there's been push back and protesting.

 

[Forearm_Star]

Sigh. This shit is never going back to normal.

 

[Lulu]

I like what Cuomo is doing with NY state --- all facts and data based. Each region will be different, depending if they've met the criteria. This is the most logical way of reopening.

If you haven't read it, check it out here:

https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/governor.ny.gov/files/atoms/files/NYForwardReopeningGuide.pdf

Click to shrink...

Yea, I think it's a good plan and this a good read

 

[hateradio]

Very irresponsible, we just passed 80,000 deaths and the numbers certainly aren't going to slow down by pushing people together in public places.

Click to shrink...

Indeed. Things are going to get worse over the next few months. Republicans are going to wave their hands and declare success.

I honestly don't get it. Take Apple for example. They were one of the first retailers to close their stores. This was before any official lockdowns or anything. Tomorrow they're re-opening in Alabama. This is Alabama:

Click to shrink...

Most likely it's that since the state is open, they can't just have their workers continue to wait until everything is okay. Unfortunately, this state-by-state BS is going to fuck up a lot of things.

 

[Deleted member 4274]

We are definitely not ready to open. But I picked no. Shit needs to open, just so people can live. Feel so bad for those who work in retail. Feel worse for those essential workers. So yeah, things aren't easy. Wish the poll had a middle ground.

 

[BringBackSonics]

It's the timing of everything Newsom has been doing that seems like he's caving. He announces a staged reopening plan on April 28th with Phase 2 supposedly weeks away still. He closes beaches on May 1st. Protests happen about the beaches. Protests happen about the shelter in place. Counties start to push back and say they're opening anyway. Suddenly we move from weeks away from Phase 2 to just days away and as of now actually being implemented. I don't even think dine in restaurants were supposed to be a part of Phase 2 either since they seemed to stress Phase 2 was still about curbside pickup.

On top of that, when he announced Phase 2 was starting, he said it was guidance but local governments would be able to overrule the state's guidance with stricter rules and that local areas should abide by their local governments orders. Elon Musk goes off about wanting to reopen, declares they're moving out, and then says they're going to open anyway and then suddenly Newsom is saying they're going to work with Alameda County so that Tesla can open which contradicts his previous stance that local governments can dictate how to proceed.

It's things like these which looks like Newsom is backing off due to the pressure being put on him to reopen things. He keeps saying he's going by the data and the science, but there's been sudden changes in plans and statements after there's been push back and protesting.

Click to shrink...

I'll have to leave it to you since you understand California much more.. I haven't really seen any waffling at least for Washington, which I can speak to.

 

[Wackamole]

I read in this morning's newspaper (Volkskrant) about a woman whose one child went to school in the morning, and whose other child went in the afternoon, so I kind of assumed that was the norm.

Maybe schools are allowed to decide for themselves which approach they favor? I could see either method work, as long as classes aren't as full as they were before the lockdown.

Click to shrink...

Maybe it's that then.

 

[DrScruffleton]

It's the timing of everything Newsom has been doing that seems like he's caving. He announces a staged reopening plan on April 28th with Phase 2 supposedly weeks away still. He closes beaches on May 1st. Protests happen about the beaches. Protests happen about the shelter in place. Counties start to push back and say they're opening anyway. Suddenly we move from weeks away from Phase 2 to just days away and as of now actually being implemented. I don't even think dine in restaurants were supposed to be a part of Phase 2 either since they seemed to stress Phase 2 was still about curbside pickup.

On top of that, when he announced Phase 2 was starting, he said it was guidance but local governments would be able to overrule the state's guidance with stricter rules and that local areas should abide by their local governments orders. Elon Musk goes off about wanting to reopen, declares they're moving out, and then says they're going to open anyway and then suddenly Newsom is saying they're going to work with Alameda County so that Tesla can open which contradicts his previous stance that local governments can dictate how to proceed.

It's things like these which looks like Newsom is backing off due to the pressure being put on him to reopen things. He keeps saying he's going by the data and the science, but there's been sudden changes in plans and statements after there's been push back and protesting.

Click to shrink...

yeah, I am in a county that is on an accelerated path through stage 2. Dine in is about to open for restaurants, and malls are about to open for shopping in person(not curbside). Will legit be disappointed if the remaining stages change. I also live in the dumb fuck county that threatened to sue Newsom if he didn't let them reopen. Biggest eye roll I've had in a while.

 

[finalflame]

I mean I want my life back but we just can't reopen any time soon. Shit's fucked, gotta do what's right.

 

[sapien85]

It's the timing of everything Newsom has been doing that seems like he's caving. He announces a staged reopening plan on April 28th with Phase 2 supposedly weeks away still. He closes beaches on May 1st. Protests happen about the beaches. Protests happen about the shelter in place. Counties start to push back and say they're opening anyway. Suddenly we move from weeks away from Phase 2 to just days away and as of now actually being implemented. I don't even think dine in restaurants were supposed to be a part of Phase 2 either since they seemed to stress Phase 2 was still about curbside pickup.

On top of that, when he announced Phase 2 was starting, he said it was guidance but local governments would be able to overrule the state's guidance with stricter rules and that local areas should abide by their local governments orders. Elon Musk goes off about wanting to reopen, declares they're moving out, and then says they're going to open anyway and then suddenly Newsom is saying they're going to work with Alameda County so that Tesla can open which contradicts his previous stance that local governments can dictate how to proceed.

It's things like these which looks like Newsom is backing off due to the pressure being put on him to reopen things. He keeps saying he's going by the data and the science, but there's been sudden changes in plans and statements after there's been push back and protesting.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I feel like he was doing very well, leading the way for a state government in safety measures but then things reopened very fast.

 

[Wispmetas]

There are some places where it's a good idea to test a reopening. Portugal (where I live) is doing it right now, but our number of new cases has been very low in the last month.

Now, if you're asking this question focusing on america? Lol yes it's very irresponsible and would probably result in even more deaths since a new chain of spreading would begin and they're not even close to having it "controlled".

 

[PS9]

My state in Australia is down to zero daily cases and we're still only opening up slowly.

 

[Lurcharound]

Most (all?) of US and countries where the decline and control is not yet at acceptable levels like UK? Of course it's too soon. This isn't about what's the best approach to save lives and put health first; this is about what's acceptable losses that are deemed unlikely to hurt political parties and in fact aid them.

Heck, outside of idiots like Musk there's even plenty of rich people uneasy about the pace and perfectly happy to wait longer. Probably the fact the truly rich are actually doing well during Covid and know opening too soon might cost more than not is behind that but it doesn't change their reluctance.

This feels very much like a politically motivated strategy that's going to throw a bunch of people under the bus who didn't have to be.

 

[Deleted member 67920]

The world hasn't really gotten to grips with the realities of this pandemic.

Some way, somehow, people appear to just be waiting on things to get back to normal.

There is no normal to return to.

 

[onadesertedisland]

What sane person is willing to endanger their family by doing non essential things like going to the movies, exercising at the gym, or eating out? Those segments of the economy represent a large segment of our workforce and that in itself is a problem. The inequality of the distribution of resources is becoming a tragic problem. Where are the 20-30% that are now unemployed to go to? There aren't going to be jobs for them in six months. This economy is broken due to decades of attacks against labor by the capitalist class. Generations are going to be lost so billionaires can one-up each other on an unethical score chart written in blood. America is collapsing in slow motion like a recollection of a head on collision. I wish we could hold the right wing propaganda purveyors on talk radio, on cable, and other media responsible. They sold the uneducated affected by the destructiveness of capitalism opiates of hate. Instead of fighting against the forces that actively oppress them, they vote against their best interests and sadly attack policy that would improve their lives because it might also help the people they hate.

 

[Foffy]

Yes. The first thing we must do is have a mass testing apparatus in operation.

America doesn't, and considering this administration likes to lie about it, it never will.

 

[Mesoian]

Yes, because I can't trust other people to not be stupid.