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TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
These games will probably have to have some work done to support their (probably) Linux server infrastructure and custom hardware and GPU's.

It's not like they can let you download the binaries they use and away you go. Basically, if they wanted to allow this they would have to have a separate download for the PC version of the game. And that's pretty much the only place you'd be able to play most games. Most of the games on release don't have mobile ports.
Again those linux builds are locally executable , the source code just makes room to run in a distributed calculation mode where multiple computers / CPUs / GPUs share the load evenly .

So if you have an up to date linux distribution on your computer you could play them directly .
 

tutomos

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,612
Can allowing you to play offline let them mine data about you? If not then the answer is no.
 

Shpeshal Nick

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,856
Melbourne, Australia
I mean - they could release a console. It's not impossible for a company like Google.

But it would be an admission that the vision didn't work, and I think Google is only getting into the games platform business because the tech is getting to a point where they don't need to produce and distribute a console at scale.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that Google aren't releasing a console capable of playing AAA video games.
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
Again those linux builds are locally executable , the source code just makes room to run in a distributed calculation mode where multiple computers / CPUs / GPUs share the load evenly .

So if you have an up to date linux distribution on your computer you could play them directly .

Well, yes, in the same way, you could technically run an old DOS executable on Windows 10 (well, as long as it's 16 bit at least). It will "run" long enough to crash because it's hardware environment and software dependencies aren't available.
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,389
Consumers ultimately dictate this stuff though. You can repeat company mantras and marketing buzz words until you're blue in the face, but if the consumer says otherwise, then that's more or less the last word.

If its a feature that people really, really want and publishers are OK with it, there's not much reason for Google to say no.

That said, I don't think it's something most Stadia users will really care that much for, though there is a chance it becomes a relevant point if its something Microsoft/Sony push as an alternative.

From a feasibility stand point it doesnt make sense.
Porting ports to run in chrome on different hardware is a bitch, thats gonna bring more headaches than its worth.
You forget Stadia hardware is bespoke, the OS software is bespoke....its why all the processing is done on their end.
Making people download an emulator to emulate Stadia hardware seems really really backwards no?
If they get their own Linux/Windows storefront to download games thats a different story....and effectively a different product.
Thats all im gonna say.
 

flaxknuckles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,312
Not sure why people think the possibility of Google doing this is so far-fetched when OnLive and Nvidia 's game streaming service eventually added this feature.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
Well, yes, in the same way, you could technically run an old DOS executable on Windows 10 (well, as long as it's 16 bit at least). It will "run" long enough to crash because it's hardware environment and software dependencies aren't available.
The hardware would be there , since their hardware is nothing more than beefy X86 computers (and again in Linux X86 is X86 server grade or not ) , and software library wise google didn't reinvent the wheel for the local execution mode , so once again anyone with an up to date Ubuntu already rocks those very same library the only thing we are missing is their libraries for the distributed calculationn mode (which again is a mode we wouldn't be running it in , in on a local execution context so not having them is a non issue ) ...
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
From a feasibility stand point it doesnt make sense.
Porting ports to run in chrome on different hardware is a bitch, thats gonna bring more headaches than its worth.
You forget Stadia hardware is bespoke, the OS software is bespoke....its why all the processing is done on their end.
Making people download an emulator to emulate Stadia hardware seems really really backwards no?
If they get their own Linux/Windows storefront to download games thats a different story....and effectively a different product.
Thats all im gonna say.

The bigger issue here is we're really in uncharted territory here, this is a new frontier as far as what business model will work here. If MS/Sony make a big deal out of having the ability to play local versions at home + stream whenever you want, then Google may have to respond that and letting someone run the game they've paid for anyway the *option* of also playing on local PC hardware may be the compromise that gets made.

I don't know. Or people could simply not care and we could be looking at an all streaming future for everyone.

It's hard to say. I mean if you told yourself from 12 years ago about the smartphone business model and said that actually works that might sound crazy back then, but it's what ended up working.

That's one of the more interesting things is I think the business model here is going to undergo changes and shifts and changes as time goes on.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
YMMV, but you can stream from your gaming PC to other devices already. You don't need Stadia.
If Google did a really good job on latency, no, the choices are few. There is Shadow, Pascal, Nvidia, and couple others but they are much more expensive and they do have latency issues. That said, those services do let you bring your own game library.
 

ArnoldJRimmer

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
1,322
The hardware would be there , since their hardware is nothing more than beefy X86 computers (and again in Linux X86 is X86 server grade or not ) , and software library wise google didn't reinvent the wheel for the local execution mode , so once again anyone with an up to date Ubuntu already rocks those very same library the only thing we are missing is their libraries for the distributed calculationn mode (which again is a mode we wouldn't be running it in , in on a local execution context so not having them is a non issue ) ...

So you really think we could download the binaries and just run the game on a Linux machine? No special drivers for their GPU's or anything? I mean, I guess I understand that possibility, I write server applications that do exactly that, you put them up on a linux server run npm install and away they go. But this seemed different enough that that wouldn't work.

Google would never release these though, but it's cool that it's so portable.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
So you really think we could download the binaries and just run the game on a Linux machine? No special drivers for their GPU's or anything? I mean, I guess I understand that possibility, I write server applications that do exactly that, you put them up on a linux server run npm install and away they go. But this seemed different enough that that wouldn't work.

Google would never release these though, but it's cool that it's so portable.
I have friends that worked on those builds .The Stadia version before going on the back end part of the infrastructure of google has been tested locally the only caveat for Linux gamers is accepting to run that sucker on an AMD GPU (the GPUs they chose to go with on their Stadia servers - so during dev they didn't tested those suckers in a local execution context with an Nvidia card ) but yeah if you have an AMD GPU and Ubuntu installed, just run that sucker in local execution mode and you're golden .

Which is why as a Linux gamer it cheeses my onions more than a bit that Ubisoft is on board and is fine making those builds happen but then refuse to go the extra mile and sell them for local execution on Linux (I mean you beta tested that sucker so that locally it's rock solid before having the right to then upload it in the beta testing part of google's infrastructure , I don't demand that google sells local execution copies , but you have made them happen anyway so sell them already don't you like money Ubisoft ? )

TL:DR I doubt google would let you download the games localy , yet on the other hand in order for the Stadia version to be made every studio had to first make a local execution version rock solid enough that they would then move on to use the infrastructure and implement the distributed calculation mode so any and all game on Stadia is essentialy BOTH a localy exectuable linux version of the game and a Stadia version , just take the Stadia sauce out and sell them as local copies on Steam or whatever already ...
 
Last edited:
Nov 2, 2017
2,243
If they do, it'll be later down the line if the service struggles, serving the dual purposes of both "maybe this will make this more popular and let us keep this alive" and also "if we get shut down, then we can just tell everyone to download their games before we close the service".
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
i see this has been pointed out but how would you play it offline do you know what streaming is do you understand the point and function of this device???

I know this is getting a bit deep in the philosophical weeds but I struggle to consider Stadia to be "a device" more than it is, say, a protocol or, god help us all, a service.

Still, I agree with people that Google is probably -- though not necessarily! -- only going to develop/support hardware drivers for the servers they're using rather than having generic Linux builds of games that any ol' Joe with a computer can run if they want to. Cloud gaming does, I think, call for an OS kernel so small you can't see it when it turns sideways
 

EOS-HDC

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
769
Tijuana, B.C, Mexico
Not initially, it defeats the puroporse of the service. What's the point of downloading an isntaller if you can't play the game on your PC and what's the point of having Stadia if you have a capable computer that can run your game above the free 1080p/60Fps.

Eventually and if the service becomes big and succesful enough it could be offered as an incentive to increase the customer base,
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,494
Once the subscription service isn't required I'll dip my toes into this.

Not keen on building a new gaming PC and I'm pretty done with Microsoft's OS so stadia is a nice alternative.

I'm just not keen on having my software library walled off by a subscription service.

Uhh dude its already not required

The sub is only for discounts, better streaming, some free games i assume and whatever other perks it provides.

You can opt to just buy a game and use the service free from the get go
 

Amnixia

â–˛ Legend â–˛
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,424
Uhh dude its already not required

The sub is only for discounts, better streaming, some free games i assume and whatever other perks it provides.

You can opt to just buy a game and use the service free from the get go

Iirc the non-subscription version lau ches next year?
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
Hopefully when downloading RAM comes to the service.
 

fuzzyset

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,556
It'll be released whenever Google adds in the option to DL Youtube videos directly.

never
 

FelixFFM

Member
Nov 7, 2017
345
The bigger issue here is we're really in uncharted territory here, this is a new frontier as far as what business model will work here. If MS/Sony make a big deal out of having the ability to play local versions at home + stream whenever you want, then Google may have to respond that and letting someone run the game they've paid for anyway the *option* of also playing on local PC hardware may be the compromise that gets made.

This. It's a clear advantage that MS/Sony would have and it would really make it more palatable to spend $60 on a game knowing that I get BOTH a local version and a cloud version. It would also make stadia attractive for PC gamers that already have good hardware. If I'd get a download code with a stadia purchase in addition to being able to stream the game as well, why would I ever buy a game on steam again?
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
If they did this, I would be more excited about the service. It could also relieve people's fears about losing access to games. You'd get the best of both worlds. Play on your own hardware at home to avoid data cap and play on the cloud when away from home. I hope this is something that will eventually be possible on the service. Until then, I'm skeptical of Stadia.

They wouldn't be able to do that at the price they're selling the box for and at that point they might as well not be competing. If they wanted to enter gaming they should have taken the same approach Sony did by starting off with a standard console, building a media machine and then developing streaming technology.

Google's strategy is a shuffled version of that with the third step (standard console) being, IMO, highly unlikely.
 

FelixFFM

Member
Nov 7, 2017
345
They wouldn't be able to do that at the price they're selling the box for and at that point they might as well not be competing. If they wanted to enter gaming they should have taken the same approach Sony did by starting off with a standard console, building a media machine and then developing streaming technology.

Google's strategy is a shuffled version of that with the third step (standard console) being, IMO, highly unlikely.
Why wouldn't they be able to afford it? They already have to give the publisher/developer of the game money for every copy of their game they sell on stadia. Surely it wouldn't be a big deal for the pubs to throw in another key for a local stadia launcher.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
No, it is a streaming service. In 20 years, I could see half the gaming market on it. But in the next 10 years I'm not bothering. There will be so many technical issues and them figuring out how to share cloud servers with web hosting, software builds, video streaming, etc in a cost effective bursty way which is the only financially viable way this works. Expect latency spikes during peak hours, disconnections, and high compression. Inevitably they'll figure it out and it'll be cheaper and more convenient, but I'd rather others alpha test it and have steam and gog offer their versions that keep my library of 200 games.

There aren't infinite, nearby cloud spot instances. Even azure develops has weirdness with software builds every other week.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,066
I don't demand that google sells local execution copies , but you have made them happen anyway so sell them already don't you like money Ubisoft ? )
One-machine configuration does not equal "viable for release" to home-PC market. That's before factoring in the costs of tech-support and distribution for the extra platform.
Also Ubisoft doesn't exactly have a history of understanding the PC market particularly well either, so even if this was a profitable proposition (I wouldn't know) they need to be educated about it first.
 

shadowhaxor

EIC of Theouterhaven
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,730
Claymont, Delaware
Chromecasts do not have any storage. You can't download anything on them, not even apps like Netflix or Prime Video. It's just a streaming dongle that lets you cast stuff from your phone or PC to your TV. The Chromecast Ultra, which is apparently needed for Stadia, has an HDMI-out, an ethernet port, and a micro-USB port for power. There's nowhere to even attach a "storage dongle."
Yes, they do. It is used for caching.
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
Why wouldn't they be able to afford it? They already have to give the publisher/developer of the game money for every copy of their game they sell on stadia. Surely it wouldn't be a big deal for the pubs to throw in another key for a local stadia launcher.

I did not say they wouldn't be able to afford it. What I said is that their current box/console could not handle being a standalone game console. It would require new hardware, a lot of R&D and gaining much more first-party developers to be able to bring a competitive console to the market and even then its success wouldn't be guaranteed. I don't think Google is interested in that though, it's not their end-goal.
 

FelixFFM

Member
Nov 7, 2017
345
I did not say they wouldn't be able to afford it. What I said is that their current box/console could not handle being a standalone game console. It would require new hardware, a lot of R&D and gaining much more first-party developers to be able to bring a competitive console to the market and even then its success wouldn't be guaranteed. I don't think Google is interested in that though, it's not their end-goal.
I'm talking about locally downloading the PC version of the game on your own PC, not on the streaming hardware.
 

TheSyldat

Banned
Nov 4, 2018
1,127
One-machine configuration does not equal "viable for release" to home-PC market. That's before factoring in the costs of tech-support and distribution for the extra platform.
Also Ubisoft doesn't exactly have a history of understanding the PC market particularly well either, so even if this was a profitable proposition (I wouldn't know) they need to be educated about it first.
That's why I talked about going the extra mile , which is to say to further beta test on other configurations , but they're making a linux native version anyway already so why not going a bit further to also get some butter from the Linux gaming crowd .

If they bothered to release on Linux I'd be huge "Ubiboy" like for real there are titles on their catalogue I'd gladly buy and pay for , but only if it runs native on my Ubuntu. And given they already use those very same libraries to make the Stadia version anyway they can't argue about "Making a linux build is costly" anymore, they are already making one for Stadia relying on a distributed calculation mode that is faaaarrr more complex and costly to develop and properly implement than the miserable extra cash it would cost to also make the local mode a public release they can sell . No seriously the Stadia integration alone costs them 10 times more already , so at this point why not go all the way ?
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
I'm talking about locally downloading the PC version of the game on your own PC, not on the streaming hardware.

That's even less likely than them building a standalone console in my opinion. There will be a Stadia client or a site where you can access your Stadia games on Chrome but I don't think they will ever give you the option to download anything because that would require new licensing deals for every single new game they own and I doubt most publishers would agree to that without renegotiation.
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,624
No. Seems the entire point is streaming and selling you a license...which is why I don't think I'll be getting one.
 

FelixFFM

Member
Nov 7, 2017
345
That's even less likely than them building a standalone console in my opinion. There will be a Stadia client or a site where you can access your Stadia games on Chrome but I don't think they will ever give you the option to download anything because that would require new licensing deals for every single new game they own and I doubt most publishers would agree to that without renegotiation.
Then Sony and MS will kill Stadia, because they have the ability to offer this without any renegotiation, PLUS they have exclusive titles.
Just speaking for myself, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to subscribe to stadia and buy games exclusively there, because it'd give me more options. But only if I could play the games locally on my PC as well.

Seeing as Stadia is basically a PC service (in that it doesn't have any exclusives, boasts 4k/60, etc) I don't think it's unreasonable to expect downloadable games.
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
Seeing as Stadia is basically a PC service (in that it doesn't have any exclusives, boasts 4k/60, etc) I don't think it's unreasonable to expect downloadable games.

I think you have a severe misunderstanding of what Stadia is about. They are not interested in the typical console market, at all. Stadia is a different type of product in the gaming market. If your expectation is to be able to download and keep Stadia games on your Stadia console or PC long after the service ends, I think you will be sorely disappointed.
 

FelixFFM

Member
Nov 7, 2017
345
I think you have a severe misunderstanding of what Stadia is about. They are not interested in the typical console market, at all. Stadia is a different type of product in the gaming market. If your expectation is to be able to download and keep Stadia games on your Stadia console or PC long after the service ends, I think you will be sorely disappointed.
I understand what it is perfectly well. At the end of the day, how they're wording their message can only do so much to obfuscate the core issue: They expect you to pay $60 for a game, just like on any other platform. Anyone deciding to take the plunge and start shifting their gaming onto stadia instead of consoles or PC, and buy games exclusively on there, will have to deal with a lot of shortcomings and inherent downsides of the platform.
Having downloadable games would mitigate that.
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,426
I don't know why 90% of this thread is acting like the OP is a moron who doesn't understand what streaming is. There's nothing preposterous or impossible about offering a standard PC download along with access to the streaming version. Just say you don't think Google will do it because it doesn't fit their business model or target market.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,659
In your mind, how exactly do you believe this would even be possible?
 

jts

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,018
Yeah it will allow you to download the games to the Google controller which in turn will play them via local wifi streaming.

in 2030
 

krg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,901
lol at the question.. you don't download anything, you just play. Of course it won't work offline.