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Well?

  • I like it / don't mind it

    Votes: 572 88.3%
  • I dislike it generally or dislike the amount of it

    Votes: 76 11.7%

  • Total voters
    648

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,993
North Carolina
What's important about the way FF14 goes about incorporating all these callbacks is how they most often make it unique to FF14. The Gold Saucer is from FF7 but the lore behind the theme park is wholly unique. It's not like they just transplant it and call it a day. This goes for almost everything in the game that alludes to other FF titles. They can reuse names locations and ideas but it always fits neatly into the world of 14.

And thankfully the developers know when and when not to use past ideas. The main scenario for instance usually leans conservative in callbacks. Sure Shadowbringers has some heavy FF3 vibes and similar lore points to set up Norvrandt but what they created on top of that isn't at all FF3. They know that a lot of players have played past titles and aren't going to present a main story quest those players have already seen.

I for one can't wait to see all the cool shit they add into Endwalker that alludes to FF4 and hopefully FF10 outside of Anima. I know they'll do it with a lot of respect to the original games and their own unique world within 14.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Is this stuff like non-canon?

I see so much praise for XIV's story, but then also tons of crossover stuff that makes it seem more like a Hyrule Warriors fanservice situation or something. How do they handle it?
It's cannon in it's own universe. Stuff like the kefka fight is in a simulator so you are not actually fighting kefka but what omega depicts as kefka based on legends
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,310
I love how FFXIV integrates its references to other FF games. Keeping them largely as side content while the main story enjoys doing its own thing is a fantastic approach.

I still need to see it show some more love to FFIX, hopefully Pandaemonium will do that even if it's going to have its own story.
 

CliveLH

Member
Jun 22, 2019
2,225
To me it's part of its strengh how the game blend mutliple things from every episode into one coherent lore/universe.
 

Hero_of_the_Day

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
17,346
Is this stuff like non-canon?

I see so much praise for XIV's story, but then also tons of crossover stuff that makes it seem more like a Hyrule Warriors fanservice situation or something. How do they handle it?

They do new things with the ideas they bring over. Like, the Weapons you fight aren't literally the same Weapons from Final Fantasy 7. It's like there always bring a Cid, but they are never the same Cid.
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,094
I largely dislike throwbacks and fanservice, at least when it takes the form of actual battle content. I want FFXIV to have its own identity. Stuff like the Omega series of raids is a good example of what I dislike- just the flimsiest excuse to fight old FF enemies. Stuff like Ivalice on the other hand I don't mind too much because it's better implemented into the world and lore of XIV.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,993
North Carolina
Is this stuff like non-canon?

I see so much praise for XIV's story, but then also tons of crossover stuff that makes it seem more like a Hyruleg Warriors fanservice situation or something. How do they handle it?
The main story is unique to 14. It's very much it's own Final Fantasy. Often times you'll see small ideas from other games peppered into the story however. Things like names of characters, places, and monsters. The usual thing FF does. One of the biggest things I can think of that it takes is the Garlean Empire and its use of magitek and stuff. A ton of the more blatant callbacks are found in the optional content. But they are never just thrown in. They usually completely alter the story and lore reason of why it's there to make it fit in the world of 14. It's fanservicey but it's always unique so it doesn't just feel like what it was in whatever past game it comes from.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
I like it. Final Fantasy XI I always predicted would do this but ultimately it had almost no direct callbacks to other FF games. XIV's callbacks are generally neat and fun and it's a kind of fanservice that I think the game's fanbase responds well to.
 

ventuno

Member
Nov 11, 2019
1,983
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I don't mind borrowing concepts (the Warrior of Light vs the Warrior of Darkness, Elidibus' appearance, Amaurot and Zanarkand, the Floating Continent) but if we're lifting an entire central conflict, then it's a little more dicey.

I thought that Heavensward relied too much on echoes of past narrative glories, so that made it less exciting for me. I don't mind Estinien, but he's such a blatant expy I can't get into him too much. I liked the basis of the conflict between dragons and humans, but I already liked it in FFVI and wasn't seeing anything new.

I do think that XIV has gotten better about doing its own thing from ARR till now though. I preferred Shadowbringers' approach to the Warriors of Darkness/light-versus-bad conflict because it's not as much about tapping into your nostalgia for FFIII as much because the references and allusions stand alongside XIV's original lore.

I wonder how Endwalker will turn out since the moon plotline is something that myself and many others have been seeing for awhile. Their challenge will be to make sure that there's a correct balance so we're not in a HW situation again, but the good news is that the Moon/Lunarians (? potentially) are concepts and at this point, XIV has built its own identity and crafted extensive lore of its own.
 

Kupo Kupopo

Member
Jul 6, 2019
2,959
The combat is hardly what I'd call "fun" personally

You find it fun and that's fine

what irks me is that you and a lot of other XIV fans seem to love propping up XIV by shitting on other SE games

sorry to hear that. personally, when it comes to gaming discussions? nothing really irks me. life's too short to get irked over gaming...
 
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Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,049
Absolutely untrue. FFXIV incorporates older titles' worlds, enemies, and characters within the FFXIV's narrative and quite creatively. Also, aside from the raid location names and general aesthetics, the Ivalice of FF12 and FFT is NOT the same as the Ivalice of FFXIV. Lots of past FF stuff are explained in game as recreations of local legends and stories.
Yeah nothing more creative than literally vomiting FF iconic bosses into Omega's raid re-using Dissidia's models.
How about you don't incorporate stuff from other FF and just stick to the general references like Ifrit, Shiva and Bahamut and some bosses like most FF. If I wanted to fight ExDeath I'd play FFV.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Yeah nothing more creative than literally vomiting FF iconic bosses into Omega's raid re-using Dissidia's models.
How about you don't incorporate stuff from other FF and just stick to the general references like Ifrit, Shiva and Bahamut and some bosses like most FF. If I wanted to fight ExDeath I'd play FFV.
But Neo Ex Death was awesome
tumblr_p9qwttepvU1r8tdf1o3_640.gifv

mma637orma541.png
 
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construct

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jun 5, 2020
7,963
東京
i dont mind references as long as they're not shoved down my throat (marvel/star wars). maybe my ff knowledge is poor but it doesn't ever feel that way to me.

a problem i do have however is all the stupid fucking meme reference quests/names. such an awful idea that ages so poorly
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,279
Midgar, With Love
No. That's kind of the point, after a fashion. FFXIV has managed to take everything remotely vague that was a brand staple beforehand and give it the depth I never dreamed to see.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,972
Canada
FFXIV feels like a celebration of the entire franchise while constantly contributing its own great characters and stories into the mix. So I definitely don't mind.
 

OskarXCI

Member
Nov 11, 2018
1,229
As much as I love all the callbacks and crossovers with past FF games, I'm glad that the 8-man and Alliance Raids for Endwalker will be completely original for FFXIV world and lore. The Trial questline will most likely be the Four Fiends from FFIV. Lost opportunity otherwise since we are going to the moon.


What's important about the way FF14 goes about incorporating all these callbacks is how they most often make it unique to FF14.

Exactly. Best example would be the Ivalice questline. It started out as being similar in many aspects but eventually evolved into something more original with Save the Queen / Bozja. I bet Matsuno is having a lot of fun writing all this new lore for XIV.
 

MaxAugust

Member
Jan 28, 2018
3,149
I like how the comments in this thread lean negative or at least 50/50 while the poll is nearly 90% in favor. Kind of interesting. Personally, I love it. FFXIV manages to tell its own fantastic story while also fitting in fun references all over the place. It sets it apart from the other games.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,310
As much as I love all the callbacks and crossovers with past FF games, I'm glad that the 8-man and Alliance Raids for Endwalker will be completely original for FFXIV world and lore. The Trial questline will most likely be the Four Fiends from FFIV. Lost opportunity otherwise since we are going to the moon.
the stories will be original to FFXIV, but that the 8 person raid is called Pandaemonium means its already not completely without references.

It will probably be like Eden, with some FFIX and II bosses and music.
 
Dec 3, 2017
1,156
São Paulo, Brazil
I think the way they implement all the things from previous and future games into FFXIV is always very sensible and well-made. There's always lore, the monsters, places and characters are always incorporated into Hydaelyn, so it never feels out of place. As an entretched Yasumi Matsuno fan, Return To Ivalice was sublime. The Vagrant Story references and monsters, the voice work for Orbonne Monastery, dear gods.

As others have already singled-out tho, YoRHA: Dark Apocalypse is also the exception for me, I was kinda irked because I felt the style and themes kinda clashed too much. In a vacuum tho, the raid is fantastic, the music is eargasmic (I mean, have you listened to this?):





And the battles are amazing with a good level of difficulty to them.

I'm glad they're coming back to original stories and locations for Endwalker, tho, because I think it gives them more leeway to create different experiences and weave in world history and background lore, and it being such an important expansion wouldn't make sense to have borrowed stuff anyway.
 

GuitarGuruu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,495
I think its a healthy mix, the past couple expansions have leaned a bit too much into relying on other FF stuff but it looks like that might be toned back a bit with Endwalker.
 

Toth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,007
Yeah nothing more creative than literally vomiting FF iconic bosses into Omega's raid re-using Dissidia's models.
How about you don't incorporate stuff from other FF and just stick to the general references like Ifrit, Shiva and Bahamut and some bosses like most FF. If I wanted to fight ExDeath I'd play FFV.

The whole raid was a mix of classic FF mobs (or legends) fighting for supremacy in omega's game of natural selection until the final tier, which had 4 unique boss fights. It was fantastically animated and some of the fights were truly intense. The game has really only used Dissidia models for Exdeath, Kefka, Chaos, and CoD (and that was in this raid set).

And please...no more classic summon bosses. we have enough....
 
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Mar 18, 2020
2,434
It's an MMO designed to make money using 30+ years of Final Fantasy.

XI was full of references too but it did seem to be more artfully done.
 
Feb 13, 2018
1,241
New Jersey
Hell no! I love the fan service in XIV! A major part of my attraction to the game was the oodles of content from previous FF games: the Crystal Tower, Ivalice, the Omega raids (and how it ties into the other games), the music and settings (the siren song dungeon is ripped straight from the ship graveyard in FFV and I love it).

I enjoy fighting familar bosses and see how they get reimagined in XIV, like how fighting Chaos incorporates the power of the four elemental crystals in FFI, how when fighting Kefka; the huge structure is part of the fight, and how the Mist Dragon has the same mechanic as it does in FFIV. They do a great job of mixing old and new.
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,049
The whole raid was a mix of classic FF mobs (or legends) fighting for supremacy in omega's game of natural selection until the final tier, which had 4 unique boss fights. It was fantastically animated and some of the fights were truly intense. The game has really only used Dissidia models for Exdeath, Kefka, Chaos, and CoD (and that was in this raid set).
I know what it was, I want know what is "creative" about taking a bunch of old FF iconic enemies and putting them into the game with zero story relevance and presence. It's literally the most lazy, unimaginative excuse for fanservice ever made.
And please...no more classic summon bosses. we have enough....
Nowhere in that post I asked for more "classic summon booses", I said they should stick to classic summons for references like most FF do and they already ran out of classic summons during ARR anyway. Next summon announced is Anima anyway, which is another reference.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,252
As much as I love all the callbacks and crossovers with past FF games, I'm glad that the 8-man and Alliance Raids for Endwalker will be completely original for FFXIV world and lore. The Trial questline will most likely be the Four Fiends from FFIV. Lost opportunity otherwise since we are going to the moon.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to original stuff in Endwalker, or more specifically, re-imagined experiences, which I'm more OK with. I want to see the world of Hydaelyn expanded. I want to learn about all these areas, what the people are like, etc.

I'm also happy Sage is super original and pretty much unlike anything in the past. Just not sure why they named it Sage.
 

Waxy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
440
I know what it was, I want know what is "creative" about taking a bunch of old FF iconic enemies and putting them into the game with zero story relevance and presence. It's literally the most lazy, unimaginative excuse for fanservice ever made.

Nowhere in that post I asked for more "classic summon booses", I said they should stick to classic summons for references like most FF do and they already ran out of classic summons during ARR anyway. Next summon announced is Anima anyway, which is another reference.
Do you really find nothing creative in the Exdeath/Neo-exdeath, phantom train, kefka etc. fights from Omega? Like I know they aren't original to FFXIV but those fights are completely original, and have next to nothing in common, mechanics wise besides spell names, with their original appearances.

I get preferring 100% fights over references (that's my biggest beef with the Eden raid which are fun but they are calling back to the same game), but the fights themselves are fantastic and the tournament arc was a good excuse to give us these completely new takes on classic bosses.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,310
I'm also happy Sage is super original and pretty much unlike anything in the past. Just not sure why they named it Sage.
Until they say otherwise I'm going to believe it's Sage because the FFXIV team are massive FFIII fans and they don't want to leave out the other ultimate job.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,252
Until they say otherwise I'm going to believe it's Sage because the FFXIV team are massive FFIII fans and they don't want to leave out the other ultimate job.

Well, it's Sage. It just is so different from past Sages. I wish they had removed it a bit more so they could have made the AF and armor even more different.

I'm hoping we run out of "past jobs" sooner rather than later so the FFXIV team can add their own unique jobs to the pantheon of FFXIV stuff. I also loved 1.0 classes. I was honestly a bit disappointed jobs were brought back.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,969
I don't know 99% of FF stuff but still like most of FFXIV's content. Most of the time the callbacks are integrated well. If no one told me that most of FFXIV was lifted straight from other FF games, I wouldn't know it.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,252
I like how the comments in this thread lean negative or at least 50/50 while the poll is nearly 90% in favor. Kind of interesting. Personally, I love it. FFXIV manages to tell its own fantastic story while also fitting in fun references all over the place. It sets it apart from the other games.

It's just popular in general. There's a reason Star Wars tends to allude to the same things, having Darth Vader and other popular characters appear again, etc.

Everyone likes familiar things. If you already know you enjoyed something from the past, that's way safer than something new. You already enjoyed this thing in the past, so you already know how you feel about it. This is why sequels, remakes, re-imaginings, etc exist in general.
 

Cyrus_Saren

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
368
Iowa
Not at all. The Tactics raid is the main reason I ended up wanting to try it out. All the additional references that I've come across so far (on Heavensward) I think have been done really well and I've enjoyed the hell out of it.
 

Chucat

Member
Dec 11, 2020
87
I wrote about this in a completely different thread while talking about the difference in fanservice between Kingdom Hearts and FF14, god I love the format of discussing things on ResetEra.

Anyway said post is here

To paraphrase, it's basically this:

Nothing wrong with a reference, but no need to spell it out for me, I'm a grown boy! 😅

So, for example. Something like Heavensward works as a good reference. If you remove the entire Ultimate End and screen shattering section of the Thordan fight, then "Heavensward is a Knights of the Round reference" would be the realm of 30 minute long Youtube videos made by people with names like "TheGameTheoryMan" rather than an obvious fact. They work the reference into the game so well that it's a chicken and egg thing with whether they came up with the reference or the entire Heavensward setting first.

Crystal Tower is somewhere in the middle, it's an extremely overt reference, but they work it believably into the game by actually tying it into events and characters unique to FF14. Xande is an Allegan Emperor, he caused a Calamity, Amon was his advisor, the Crystal Tower is a research facility. So even if you're unaware of the game it was from, it can still function as a unique place, and if you know the game it's from, it's a nice bonus. Things like Gold Saucer function in the same way, to varying degrees.

Something like Nier is on the bad end, there's pretty much no attempt to work it into the plot. You go from helping Dwarves commit petty crime to "it's Nier, you're in Nier land, fight this Nier stuff while Nier music plays, are you aware this is Nier yet?", there's tonal and themic whiplash, no attempt to knit together these two disparate things.

Hades is completely and utterly inexcusable, at least with Nier a detractor can work out who that's FOR. Hades is just a joke.


A lot of things added to the game barely have much of a spin added is the problem. There's a ton of straight references, or just "hey here's a boss from an old FF game." Or names. Or dialog. Or music with barely any arrangement.

I prefer reactionary based combat. Where the best action to take is constantly changing. Or where you have something available at times that completely changes how I play. I don't like having to use the rotation that some other person figured out is the ideal scenario.

This is something else as well that's been an issue with some of the references in FF14, especially when they're worked into boss fights.

A lot of the game is extremely samey, being some variant of: Do rotation as much as humanly possible while doing stack/spread/tether/dodge gimmicks to not die. For example the Guard Scorpion fight doesn't have you not hit the boss while the tail is up, you just power through your rotation while the tail laser is a dodgeable AoE. I know for a fact without even reading the encounter that something like Aire Tam Storm doesn't exist for Emerald Weapon, and if it somehow does, it'll either be some sort of enrage attack or an attack that happens partway through the encounter and you mitigate the damage of it by killing adds before a bar fills up.

I'm aware it's a limitation of the game, I don't really expect players to have to extract materia from every piece of gear prior to the fight so they don't die. But it turns the game into a "Look, it's <THING FROM OTHER GAME>, enjoy the spectacle and music while it functions like 95% of the other bosses in the game!", and then the next thing you know you're a Black Mage that's beating Ifrit with Fire spells while saying "Well it's just gotta be this way."
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,310
Hades is completely and utterly inexcusable, at least with Nier a detractor can work out who that's FOR. Hades is just a joke.
Wait, what's wrong with Hades?
He's not super common, but is a recurring FF thing. More than Knights of the Round is. The way Hades was integrated into FFXIV is very much its own thing, it's nothing like how Nier is handled.

It's not that different from the Ascian names already being a deep cut reference to FFXII lore.
 

ReginaldXIV

Member
Nov 4, 2017
7,801
Minnesota
I get that some people simply don't like FFXIV combat. But claiming it's less reactive than WoW gave me pause... WoW tunes every battle encounter to the DBM mod that tells you exactly what's coming up and how to handle it based on whatever class you are. The consequence of this is that bosses and trash mobs have insane damage and HP now.
 

Chucat

Member
Dec 11, 2020
87
Wait, what's wrong with Hades?
He's not super common, but is a recurring FF thing. More than Knights of the Round is. The way Hades was integrated into FFXIV is very much its own thing, it's nothing like how Nier is handled.

It's not that different from the Ascian names already being a deep cut reference to FFXII lore.

It's just a name, it's the most empty sort of reference possible.

Pretty much everything connecting him to Hades feels like a post-hoc justification (and I'm saying this as someone who was spoiled that the final boss in the game was Hades). He could've said "My name is Pandemona" and they adjust his colour scheme and someone could conceivably think "Makes sense, he spent the entire expansion blowing hot air". It also doesn't help that the actual encounter is pretty much not Hades, a summon known for being a skeleton in a robe that has a giant cauldron that sends out bad vibes, or a huge guy in red and black with a giant sword.

Compare it to Knights of the Round, they never even SAY it's Knights of the Round, the only thing that directly states it is the format of the entire Ultimate End section, but based on the entire story up to that point, it's clear that it's Knights of the Round.
 

Rutger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,310
It's just a name, it's the most empty sort of reference possible.

Pretty much everything connecting him to Hades feels like a post-hoc justification (and I'm saying this as someone who was spoiled that the final boss in the game was Hades). He could've said "My name is Pandemona" and they adjust his colour scheme and someone could conceivably think "Makes sense, he spent the entire expansion blowing hot air". It also doesn't help that the actual encounter is pretty much not Hades, a summon known for being a skeleton in a robe that has a giant cauldron that sends out bad vibes, or a huge guy in red and black with a giant sword.

Compare it to Knights of the Round, they never even SAY it's Knights of the Round, the only thing that directly states it is the format of the entire Ultimate End section, but based on the entire story up to that point, it's clear that it's Knights of the Round.
I think they did a good job at reimagining Hades' design.

They've done that with all the other summons and it's not like Hades has a big story to work with in FF. I really don't see a problem with how it was handled.
 

Aranjah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,185
I'm firmly in the "eh, that's kinda cool, I guess" category. I don't get super excited about it (other than the FFXII stuff, but I wish there was more to that than just the alliance raids) but I don't explicitly dislike it.
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
The fanservice in the game is a huge selling point. I think it's safe to say that most people enjoy it.