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Do you support Scottish Independence? (Leaving the United Kingdom)
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I voted no last time.
If I could vote again* I would vote yes without any hesitation. I don't think it would be smooth sailing but with Brexit happening it seems like as good a time as any since the UK will be going to shit shortly anyway.
* I currently live in England so wouldn't qualify. I've still been on a Scottish tax code for a few years now though so I think I deserve one 😋
If I could vote again* I would vote yes without any hesitation. I don't think it would be smooth sailing but with Brexit happening it seems like as good a time as any since the UK will be going to shit shortly anyway.
* I currently live in England so wouldn't qualify. I've still been on a Scottish tax code for a few years now though so I think I deserve one 😋
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It will be ugly but the whole point of voting no in 14 was to stay in the EU and not have things go to shit. Cameron and crew fucked all that up so Scots may as well try to navigate themselves out of it rather than leave it to the mop faced fuck stick at no10
Who would want to remain shackled to this nasty little backwater shithole that is England? Free yourselves Scotland! I only wish you could take Liverpool with you. We don't want to be here either!
What I think about the independence of different areas:
I welcome the independence of Scotland and the reunification of Ireland if those involved agree.
I only approve of Catalan independence if all Catalan-speaking areas (Valencia, Baeleric Islands, Andorra and Catalonia itself) split together and form one country.
I do not approve of Flemish independence. They are two extreme right-wing parties (the two largest parties in Belgium in general) who want to achieve this directly or indirectly through propaganda on cultural channels and silencing the opposition. Flanders as a separate state with Antwerp, Flemish Brabant, Limburg and Brussels has never existed historically. The idea originated under the occupation of the National Socialists (and in the First World War). The only thing I would accept is the current Flanders with the Netherlands, Wallonia with France, the German-speaking part with Germany and Brussels as a dwarf state, if anything had to change.
I welcome the independence of Scotland and the reunification of Ireland if those involved agree.
I only approve of Catalan independence if all Catalan-speaking areas (Valencia, Baeleric Islands, Andorra and Catalonia itself) split together and form one country.
I do not approve of Flemish independence. They are two extreme right-wing parties (the two largest parties in Belgium in general) who want to achieve this directly or indirectly through propaganda on cultural channels and silencing the opposition. Flanders as a separate state with Antwerp, Flemish Brabant, Limburg and Brussels has never existed historically. The idea originated under the occupation of the National Socialists (and in the First World War). The only thing I would accept is the current Flanders with the Netherlands, Wallonia with France, the German-speaking part with Germany and Brussels as a dwarf state, if anything had to change.
This is horse shite because in my 43 years of life all the Tories have ever done is try to beat us down. Building bridges my arse. I'm not the one building walls. There's building bridges, and there's bending over their knee and letting them smack you.
Absolutely. I was aye in 2014. As a northern brit I see how westminster treats parts of the uk - in particular scotland - like shite.
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One thing to remember with Scotland as well is in history we were an independent country, it's not as if we're trying to secede and form a new independent state
Connect yourselves to us in Wales and we'll make a joint independence bid
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They are technically correct, the best kind of correct. We cannot legally hold a vote to leave the UK without the UK's permission. So in that sense, they own us.
Let Scotland decide, but it seems like the majority of Scotland wants out, so, uh, also yes, I do support it.
Not "standing with Tories" would mean supporting independence, which they didn't do. So, essentially, if you don't want independence in Scotland you are with the Tories.
There are more votes for unionist parties in Scotland than for nationalists, which tells me the mandate for independence is not so clear.
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A couple of things
1) Labour voters can support independence.
2) The general election turnout was 68.1%. Indyref in 2014 was 85%.
3) 16~17 year olds and EU nationals can vote in an independence referendum. Scotland allows this. The UK does not allow 16~17 year olds to vote.
And finally, a mandate, politically speaking, is generally accepted as something in a parties manifesto which gets voted for. If we go by that, how can you claim there is no mandate with the above election result?
IIRC only twice in UK politics have parties returned more of 45% of the vote. The SNP ironically, in 2015 and I would need to recheck the other time. UK Governments since I was born have been acting on their manifestos when given majority Governments. Until now I haven't ever seen this vote-share argument being used. I wonder why?
Boris Johnson is getting Brexit done, without a people's vote, based on his 43.6%. So by your logic we can try and say more of the British vote goes to people's vote parties?
The claim is not being made independence has won, the claim being made is the SNP have a manifesto voted on to bring the question back to the people.
If the UK is going to accept Boris has his mandate for his parties Brexit, no people's vote, then they'll be damn well accepting the SNP have their mandate to bring the question to the Scottish people again.
Some union of equals, eh?
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Well yeah I'm not arguing that Britain owns Scotland but that's a pretty weird reason not to support independence lol. It was worded like "we own you so fuck you". If the people of a nation want to be free nobody else's opinion should (in an ideal world, which I appreciate this isn't ) come into it.
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Aye I know, his statement is correct but it has the added contempt at the end you'd expect from someone in love with British colonialism. Which is probably a good chunk of Brexit voters.
Not being from the UK I don't have much say in the matter, but from what I understand Scotland has been getting screwed with UKs unrepresentative system and getting pulled out of the EU against their wishes.
Same for Northern Ireland.
I support both of them leaving the UK.
Same for Northern Ireland.
I support both of them leaving the UK.
At this point yes but do I think it'll change life holistically in Scotland for the better, not really. But if Scotland doesn't leave then the issue will just drag on for many decades to come I.e. - just get on with it. Although I firmly believe it'll take 10 years + to fully unwind from the UK, so if you think Brexit is a drag on resources and energy then Scoxit will be more of the same.
People just need to get on with their lives. I do feel sorry for the Scottish people that don't want to leave and I draw a lot of parallels to Brexit it that respect.
People just need to get on with their lives. I do feel sorry for the Scottish people that don't want to leave and I draw a lot of parallels to Brexit it that respect.
Absolutely support it. There is a clear philosophical divide between Englands politics and Scotlands which has been evident for 50 odd years and Scotlands lack of manpower mean we have very little effect in General Elections and in turn the country's politics.
If we don't split this animosity is only going to get worse. Never better.
If we don't split this animosity is only going to get worse. Never better.
Do you think Scottish Labour only hold that position against IndyRef2 because they need the seats to gain power again in the UK? Not that they are getting them from SNP at the moment but they live in hope.
As for going it alone, can Scotland pay for investment, services, nhs, pensions, social care etc. with just just Scottish tax income, are our industries successful enough to have a good public purse like now? I know people argue they would need to tax us way more to pay for things because we can't rely on oil as much, the time was decades ago, Thatcher blew it deliberately while Norway are reaping the rewards. I'm not talking us down, just generally curious how things would shape up instead of just believing it will be tough but fine. There is still some iffy subjects like currency, trident, border etc. We have a really high defict or something that means the EU wouldn't neccessarily let us in, yeah I know Greece, Italy etc. but it still sounds like we aren't as rosy as people like to believe or is that not true, I remember Andrew Neil talking about it.
As for going it alone, can Scotland pay for investment, services, nhs, pensions, social care etc. with just just Scottish tax income, are our industries successful enough to have a good public purse like now? I know people argue they would need to tax us way more to pay for things because we can't rely on oil as much, the time was decades ago, Thatcher blew it deliberately while Norway are reaping the rewards. I'm not talking us down, just generally curious how things would shape up instead of just believing it will be tough but fine. There is still some iffy subjects like currency, trident, border etc. We have a really high defict or something that means the EU wouldn't neccessarily let us in, yeah I know Greece, Italy etc. but it still sounds like we aren't as rosy as people like to believe or is that not true, I remember Andrew Neil talking about it.
English Londoner here, with Scottish & Welsh friends & family. But, TBH, I don't think that's relevant. From a political viewpoint it is clear that what the English want is different from what the Scottish want. The Scottish shouldn't be kept in the union if they don't want to be, regardless of what protocol says.
Although it is likely that that will happen after the UK leaves the EU. And the Tories could use the exit negotiations to make it harder for Scotland to do :(
I always hoped for a fully devolved, federal UK, which included Parliament being reduced to just an English only venue, freeing the rest of the UK of its pomp. But if anything, I can see the Tories dominating English politics for another generation if it manages to follow through on infrastructure promises in Wales and the North.
Although it is likely that that will happen after the UK leaves the EU. And the Tories could use the exit negotiations to make it harder for Scotland to do :(
I always hoped for a fully devolved, federal UK, which included Parliament being reduced to just an English only venue, freeing the rest of the UK of its pomp. But if anything, I can see the Tories dominating English politics for another generation if it manages to follow through on infrastructure promises in Wales and the North.
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Oil/gas is still going to play a rather large role for the short to midterm future
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/27/uks-largest-undeveloped-oil-field-discovered-off-scottish-coast.html
No other small independent country would struggle terribly if it had the natural resources Scotland has to help prop it up along with decent export, tourism and an educated population. We own a lot of fishing waters as well.
Plus we've got Rockstar Games 😛
There's a reason Westminster wants to hold on to Scotland and it's not because they give a shit about the people. It's the resources, land and export.
I don't exactly see Ireland desperate to rejoin the UK, do you? In fact is there anywhere in the world that's left British ownership that's asked to come back?
Something for everyone to think about that's telling Scotland we can't leave as if we're going to regret it. It's approaching battered wife syndrome. You haven't voted for the Tories in like 60+ years, but don't you dare leave us, you need us.
Do we fuck need the right-wing pseudo dictatorship operating out of Westminster. Our people can do better and will, one day. We'll make our own future and it won't be the bullshit of the UK austerity, illegal wars, classism, selling off of everything we own at bargain prices, almost permanent Tory reign and so on.
And now a Donald Trump trade deal in a post-Brexit UK? Yeah project fear can fuck off. The real fear is the reality of the UK. We shouldn't be irrationally scared of going independent, we should be scared of staying in the UK.
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For those in Scotland & with their fingers on the pulse, what's your thoughts on an independent Scotland bringing its deficit and debts under control?