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ghostemoji

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,816
I'm a geologist, so there's not a lot for me to bite on here, but the subjects arise. I wish more people would acknowledge that their knowledge is often surface level and not extensive and present ideas that way.

It bugs me seeing people state so matter of factly so often on a subject it's clear they have little real experience with. Just add some qualifiers people.
 
Oct 28, 2017
10,000
Yeah I hear ya, I think we can all agree that people are Jackasses professional or otherwise.
Oh most certainly, I'm in full agreement with you there. Professional or not, depending on how you conduct yourself will help determine whether or not someone will choose to listen to you. Note: Ignoring if you said anything crazy like that doctor, it should be obvious you should not listen to them, but people.
 

nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,563
It's usually not a big deal unless they're trying to pass their ignorance off as expertise or immediately attribute to laziness or incompetence what could be explained by other things.
 

louiedog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,269
All the time. It's an area that a lot of people know a little bit about and interact with on a daily basis. Unfortunately there's a ton of bad info out there that people put into practice and have all their lives. The implications of finding out they're wrong can make them very angry and it's tough to talk to some people about it. I usually steer clear of those threads because it just tires me and bums me out.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
Constantly. The sheer lack of understanding about even basic business fundamentals is astonishing.

This. It's not even specialist stuff (altho some of the comments on IT project management make me wince), its more the 'They can buy X', or 'They can afford to take the loss', or 'They should've gotten rid of X studio instead of Y'.

Some people on here would bankrupt MS & Apple with their business suggestions.
 

Deleted member 35740

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 9, 2017
262
Haven't seen too many threads about architecture/urban planning/construction over here so, in a way, I'm thankful.
 

GameDev

Member
Aug 29, 2018
556
Part of me wants to start a "What do people on this forum get wrong about your profession?" topic just so everybody can vent.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,307
Software Developer.

When someone says something along the lines of "It's just a line or two of code" when they want a new feature makes me want to strangle them.
Okay, I'll ask as a complete ignorant on this topic and without any kind of snark. Why is it possible that FIFA has a language selector since forever, yet you're stuck with system language in many games like Gears of War? I mean, I won't say it's "a line or two of code", but ther has to be some kind of hassle that stops users from choosing the language track or UI text, right?

I'm sorry if I'm asking a question to the wrong person about this, but unless complex graphics stuff or a whole game engine, this has always puzzled me.
 

Sho Nuff

Member
Jan 6, 2019
1,386
Kyoto, JP
Game developer for 20 years. On the old GAF people would say dumb shit that would drive me up the wall. Maybe in the last 10 years or so things have gotten a more realistic view of how dev works, which I'm thankful for.

BTW I'm waiting for Visual Studio to compile my project so don't you call me a lazy dev
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
All the time. It's an area that a lot of people know a little bit about and interact with on a daily basis. Unfortunately there's a ton of bad info out there that people put into practice and have all their lives. The implications of finding out they're wrong can make them very angry and it's tough to talk to some people about it. I usually steer clear of those threads because it just tires me and bums me out.
It sucks. For some reason, the internet has taught lots of people to respond to anything that's not 100% agreement with maximum hostility. You could try to politely correct or disagree with someone as nicely as possible, and you'll still very likely get all sorts of crap thrown in your face for daring to speak against them.

It's just tiring to even try. I totally understand why most people just sigh and move on instead of trying to say anything, especially if multiple people are already bandwagoning on some incorrect opinion.
 

fenners

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,854
Okay, I'll ask as a complete ignorant on this topic and without any kind of snark. Why is it possible that FIFA has a language selector since forever, yet you're stuck with system language in many games like Gears of War? I mean, I won't say it's "a line or two of code", but ther has to be some kind of hassle that stops users from choosing the language track or UI text, right?

I'm sorry if I'm asking a question to the wrong person about this, but unless complex graphics stuff or a whole game engine, this has always puzzled me.

Someone needs to design the layout, icons etc. The UX lead needs to approve the look of the menu afterwards. A UI engineer needs to implement the menu, go through code review etc. Are there TRCs we need to worry about by adding this support vs just looking it up on the system? QA needs to build a test plan, possibly more if there's TRCs involved - what happens if a user selects a different language vs their system language - do system menus still display correctly, does it work with mouse + keyboard etc? You're adding a new menu flow that needs to be checked every release... Does production/the development director value this time to implement vs whatever other bugs/features could be worked on?

There's a ton of overhead to any feature/change in big games that people don't see outside.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
10,000
Okay, I'll ask as a complete ignorant on this topic and without any kind of snark. Why is it possible that FIFA has a language selector since forever, yet you're stuck with system language in many games like Gears of War? I mean, I won't say it's "a line or two of code", but ther has to be some kind of hassle that stops users from choosing the language track or UI text, right?

I'm sorry if I'm asking a question to the wrong person about this, but unless complex graphics stuff or a whole game engine, this has always puzzled me.
If it was pure software, a coupling issue perhaps but nonetheless fenners answer is really good and you should listen to him!
 

Nisaba

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,941
Canada
I research Astronomy and I've encountered it here on this site when threads about space-related news comes up. It's definitely frustrating.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,307
Someone needs to design the layout, icons etc. The UX lead needs to approve the look of the menu afterwards. A UI engineer needs to implement the menu, go through code review etc. Are there TRCs we need to worry about by adding this support vs just looking it up on the system? QA needs to build a test plan, possibly more if there's TRCs involved - what happens if a user selects a different language vs their system language - do system menus still display correctly, does it work with mouse + keyboard etc? You're adding a new menu flow that needs to be checked every release... Does production/the development director value this time to implement vs whatever other bugs/features could be worked on?

There's a ton of overhead to any feature/change in big games that people don't see outside.
Thank you for answering this! It's a pet peeve of mine specially with Ubisoft games (except The Division that allows you to choose from the settings) but I didn't want to straight up say "lazy devs" bs complaint or play "armchair developer".
 

Alex3190

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
Yup all the time. I try not to engage the wireless/network threads.

The amount of times I have hit cancel on a reply has to be double the amount of my posts. It's just not worth talking to some of ERA.
 
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JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
MD.

The way people here talk about mental illness is many flavors of wrong, on one hand theres dudes making horrific insulting diagnosis on some random asshole they don't know, and on the other hand theres folks magnifying normal events that people just have to go through sometimes.
 

Midramble

Force of Habit
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,457
San Francisco
Honestly I love the wide demographic of professionals we have on here. I would love to hear some fact dissemination and clarifications from these people in threads packed with misinformation but I understand the risk and endurance involved.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,014
I work in academia in tech, and I've lost count at the times I've had to reel myself back in because too many people don't think critically about what they're saying.

I don't watch tech tubers either because the amount of stuff they get wrong is mind boggling.
 

angelgrievous

Middle fingers up
Member
Nov 8, 2017
9,137
Ohio
Ha, the only time I've seen my profession mentioned is in the title of the Red Dead Redemption 2 online OT.

So no, it's not an issue for me.
 

enzo_gt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,299
Vaguely speaking, my profession has a lot to do with understanding the "why" of politics and requires a lot of statistical knowledge. Long post incoming.

There was a time when I'd try to educate people to inform their misconceptions but I have to restrain myself from doing it often here. You can't teach people who don't want to accept new information, and the culture of self-righteousness is pretty deep-seeded in this community, which I ashamedly assume at times too. Thing is, when you actually know a thing or two, your expertise is treated like any other opinion (then again, I consciously avoid advertising my credentials).

RE: Politics:

Pretty much every politics thread starts with shitposts which set the tone for the rest of the discussion. Unmoderated, editorialized thread titles about political news encourage this shitposting. The result is threads full of what some call "hot cognitions" (many different terms for this); Essentially, highly emotionally charged responses that lack critical insight. Making things worse is that your average poster in these threads is pretty uninformed, which is understandable given that most people in an electorate are, except for the fact that their opinions are often passed on as knowledge and recirculated throughout the community.

The result? Political discussion here is basically a liberal echo chamber that *actively and structurally discourages* critical thought. There probably isn't better evidence of this than the pervasive dehumanization of conservatives. I'm politically in-line with most folk here but the open promotion and differentially-moderated hatred towards conservatives is a really, really, really, really, really bad thing. It's antithetical to the goals of progressivism, promotes polarization, discourages empathy for people with opposing views (who, according to research, actually do have similar policy attitudes than they think and would be better served as allies) and has played out really, really, really, really, really badly when you look at the consequences of power shifts in history when competing groups have been demonized. These are things people should know are bad and would absolutely know how bad they are if they were informed. Instead, people basically use conservatism and fascism synonymously here.

Based on my credentials, I imagine I'm the only or among a select few people on this forum that might be able to answer the titular question in the "What's the appeal of conservatism?" thread, but I had to close the tab to stop myself from doing so. It's not worth it, there is no good faith argumentation that can be had there. A democracy is dying before people's eyes and they're musing about whether voting for Joe Biden is the right thing to do. People are willing to die on their hill even if it means they let a global superpower succumb to fascism.

Sometimes I snap and go in on how absolutely stupid some of these perspectives are but.. my knowledge also informs me of how and why people came to these conclusions. Why they might dehumanize, why they might not see the forest through the trees, why they might not have the psychological/emotional bandwidth to be critical, why people who have been historically targeted and persecuted by conservatives would be contemptuous, why it's okay/normal for them to be uninformed and that's not really their fault, we're living etc.

It's incredibly frustrating because there's no effective method of communication knowledge here, people are seemingly and unknowingly adopting attitudes and behaviours that are counterintuitive to their beliefs in the long run (which, I might add, conservatives are frequently criticized for doing), and it feels like moderation is effectively preserving the echo chamber that makes people less open to communication. I'm hoping that I get some free time in the future to make a more well-thought out post in the constructive criticism thread that mods have opened up (which gives me hope and I love that mods are doing because this doesn't mean that they aren't well-intentioned).

RE: Statistics:

Statistics are really hard to interpret and effective communication of science is incredibly difficult, bound by the limitations of the data and statistical tests used. Interpretation is a big part of research. Picture this: Your statistical test usually pumps out numbers that only a researcher with multiple post-secondary degrees and years of specialization is capable of and responsible for accurately understanding. Then, if it gets publicized, the media has to take that understanding and effectively convey it at a ~6th grade reading level in a 280 character tweet for it to have any chance of someone outside of the academe reading it.

At every step of this communication process is error. In fact, this game of broken telephone extends to the statistical tests AND the design of the studies you are doing the statistical tests on. Error is built-in to every step. This is why it is so hard for your average person to read a research paper. Accordingly, this is also why it is so hard for your average person to criticize a study they see in the news. The people who can do this aren't average people, they're peer reviewers.

So what do people do wrong here, exactly? First, people treat data as truth. This is wrong, because, as I just mentioned, data always has error, and always must be interpreted. After the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election, people became disillusioned with polls and statistics because they treated the data like it was a crystal ball that would tell them the future to calm their anxiety and give them a sense of security. Again, data is not truth. It is an abstraction of and/or incomplete truth, and this will forever be the case until we can literally predict the future. The uncomfortable truth of science is that it is fundamentally imprecise and constantly requires ripping up what you thought was right and replacing it with something tangibly better but still imprecise. This is especially the case for social sciences. Repeat after me, data is not truth.

The other thing that people use certain "go-to" criticisms to disparage studies that don't line up with their belief systems. A big one here is "small sample size." There are so many problems with this, I'll just go into a few. First, sample sizes are determined by so many factors, most often than not how much money they have to run that sample. Second, sample sizes are really only too low if they don't sufficiently "power" the statistical tests that are run on them. To determine this, researchers sometimes run a whole separate set of analyses just to determine how many participants they need, called a power analysis. Third, in many cases you should probably be more worried about the representativeness of the sample than the sample size. It may have thousands of participants, but are they all white college students? How applicable are your findings if the data represents such a specific group of people? Fourth, the sample size matters relative to the population you are studying and what data you are collecting. 1000 Chinese participants in a study on Chinese people is not equivalent in representativeness to a 1000 trans women in a sample of trans women in New York City. A 5 minute survey given to 1000 people is not superior to a case study on 5 people.

This sucks because there's no real rules of thumb. A few years ago, I might've told you to make sure the study has at least 200 people, but that's not necessarily the case since studies can have all different kinds of designs with different sample size requirements. So what should you do? Embrace that a single study is nothing more than that - a single study. Important decisions should never be made based off of single studies, instead, people should look towards meta-analyses and systematic reviews of literature on topics.

A meta-analysis is basically like a study of studies, where the results of many studies looking at the exact same thing are punched in together to see if there truly is an overall effect. They're far from perfect, and meta-analyses have increased scrutiny on their methods today, but they usually help with issues of low sample sizes for individual studies and makes for more representative, actionable conclusions. Systematic reviews involve someone super smart in a particular field interpreting the results of many, different studies to identify patterns and extract some truth about the topics that the field is interested in. These are usually more accessible to read for non-scientists, but only come along every few years because of the gargantuan effort that is required to make them and the time needed for new studies to be done and worth summarizing.

The last thing might just be that scientists care. There's always bad apples, but so many scientists sacrifice secure income throughout their early adulthood, more lucrative job prospects, jobs that require much less stress and work, their mental health (risk of mental illness is much higher than average population due to that stress), their free time to peer review and volunteer work, relationships with partners/family/friends - all just to try and get us a little bit closer to the truth. They pursue truth through times when science gets heavily politicized and sometimes when nobody cares about the specific thing they're super interested in at the moment. They pursue truth knowing they will never get there but it might help someone, somewhere, and in some minuscule part, along the way if they do their part. So, just think twice before you think that a study is ill-intentioned. I assure you, not many would suffer through the bullshit if they didn't care.
 
Oct 26, 2017
792
Yup. I have to refrain myself from reacting to anything related to mental health, IQ, dementia, cognition in general, etc. because people are clueless. It's come to a point where I actively avoid certain topics.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,644
Costa Rica
I'm a chemical engineer so almost never.

Only time was with the Beirut explosion with people claiming that a firework factory can't create a big explosion because fireworks themselves aren't that explosive.

Not how it works. At all.

Every. damn. day.


I'm an expert in japanese culture so it happens quite frequently

Are honor and shame huge parts of it?
 

Flannel_and_Assam

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 21, 2020
256
United Kingdom
Yep. My academic speciality is Japanese culture, but in a past life I've worked in both healthcare and transport. The latter two don't come up as much on this forum, but the former is almost daily.
 
Nov 11, 2017
2,249
I work in film. 98% of what I read about productions I work on is wrong, but it's all part of the fun and I won't ever correct people.
 

legend166

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,113
I'm a Network Engineer.

Remember how everyone made fun of that old dude in US government who called the internet a series of tubes? Like it became a meme for a decade, hur hur series of tubes.

That's actually a decent enough way to explain the internet to someone who was born in 1923.
 

Yu Narukami

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,130
Sometimes it's difficult to make the difference between an expert and an ignorant. If it's something you studied, you should speak up, I think.
The skin care thread for instance is full of pseudo dermatologists. I would ask a question there but I don't want to ruin my face.
 

sheaaaa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,556
As an editor, it's frustrating how many people here expect good journalism to be free, while proudly proclaiming that they use ad blockers.
 

ninnanuam

Member
Nov 24, 2017
1,956
It doesn't happen often but when it does I need to ignore it for a few reasons 1, the work I'm in is highly emotive, discussions even at the best of times rarely go well. 2, most of the places/forums I frequent are American so I have no idea about how things work there legally.
 

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,954
I'm a scientist, so there's a fair few times where I see this. The amount of people who don't understand exponential growth is huge (it's not intuitive, so that's understandable) and I forget about it because I work with exponential functions every day. I have to back away from the arguments about whether covid cases should be displayed as logs or real numbers (spoiler: both are useful for visualising different things) or when people get obsessed about R numbers.

The worst thing is understanding that every one of us does this in areas that are not our speciality (and honestly, we even do it in areas that are within our speciality - especially scientists from similar-but-different fields)

P-values and margins of error.
*Shudders*
I don't even take my own p-values and confidence intervals seriously. Especially since my work is on exponential functions and even most actual scientists will map them the parameter variance to a bell curve and come up with literally impossible parameters in their error bars. Give these data to laymen and they'll come up with all sorts of misinformation. Googling/wikipedia make it worse, since they'll calmly explain that p=0.05 means there is a 5% chance that the result is due to chance - which is not really true.
 

ClassAndFear

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,536
I wrote novels and TV shows and films and also worked in game development for a few years a decade or so ago. Particularly TV, people seem very very confident and yet also incredibly wrong about the industry.
 
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Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
Yes, and in the past I have had a bad habit of sometimes going out of my way to explain certain things to people and end up openly discussing subjects I could probably get into trouble for talking about.

I find that beyond potentially putting my career in danger it is absolutely not worth bothering with certain individuals because some people just believe whatever they want to for the most random reasons.
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,860
I'm in the animal care field. I don't see it too often, but sometimes I see people here who think they understand zoos and wildlife sanctuaries. Especially earlier this year when Joe Exotic came out.