Again I never said it was bad. I just said it's too bad the memory is somewhat lacking. Which isn't controversial in the least.
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Do you consider the Xbox Series S a genius move from Microsoft? Did they think of the components shortage when designing it?
- Thread starter lunanto
- Start date
Sales would skyrocket because people that have last gen systems will need to upgrade and PS5/XSX are $100-$200 more if they're even in stock. Also after cross gen gets dropped, then games will be designed to run on Series S. If anything optimization for Series S will improve even more when cross gen drops and they don't have to test 7 different consoles.
They already said the whole reason they made it was because they forecast they wouldn't be able to reduce the cost of producing a Series X for a long time. The reason the cost can't go down is because of supply and demand (shortages), so yes they saw it coming. Covid is not the sole reason there's a shortage, it was inevitable with so many industries requiring them now. The most mundane shit has chips in it these days.
Typical how the discussion around the series s always turns into "it's holding back gaming" twitter console war bs narratives. There is ZERO proof that this has been the case for two whole years yet people still bring up that crap. Yes some games run rough on the series s which completely contradicts that exact narrative, if the series s was holding back gaming why is it struggling in some games, the logic.
This also doesn't even bring in the fact these games launch on PC which supports PCs that are weaker than the series s.
This also doesn't even bring in the fact these games launch on PC which supports PCs that are weaker than the series s.
On the contrary, it should perform better with pure current gen only titles.
I disagree, MS's first parties will be optimized to play well on the series S but outside of that most third party titles will aim to be playable on series X/ps5 and only take minimal consideration for the series S, which is exactly what happened to the base xbone in gen 8, and again the gap in power is even worse for the series S/X compared to the xbox counterparts in gen 8.
Well no - relative sell-through of Series to PS5 has been reasonably confirmed by multiple sources.
The rest is just what I said - I picked the most optimistic S sales estimated to date. The only concrete data points (which aren't the most recent, but it's all we have) put X as the overall faster seller. It's also hard to imagine S consistently leading the sales would remain a secret for very long if/when it happens.
Define 'a lot' and 'heavy lifting'. Without knowing the revenue and/or unit delta figuring out the X/S split is just random guessing.
So they're also going to cut off massive parts of PC? I'm sorry but it's delusional to believe that Series S is just going to get no love from publishers especially when it will probably be the largest market share for Xbox.
I am confident you read the entirety of the passage I quoted and can thus understand what I meant when considering the full context.
This:
Is just bullshit spraying random shots at nobody we don't need to be doing.
Being like 60 places ahead of the Series X on Amazon best sellers for 2021.
I wouldn't call it "massive" given the information here
and again, the baseline for a low end PC will change in a few years, the series S will not
Does anyone question whether the most popular (in terms of current usage) GPU - the GTX 1060 - is holding back gaming?
Are people with RTX 3090s annoyed that the GTX 1660 Super exists and can still run games?
It's baffling.
Exactly. So the Series S will probably be the target platform and games will update for Series X/PS5. Games have to run on Series S to sell for all Xbox, developers aren't just going to release shit versions for it.
So 34% of PC have 4 CPU cores? That's even worse than Series S.
That could be unfair and it's definitely not supported by anything objective.
I won't be surprised if it's true but it is a reach on my part.
I also thought you were talking about the Series S talk in this thread.
Cpu was never an issue with series s though. It just an ever so slightly downgrade in clock speed.
Edit: on the plus side, we're probably going to get more 60fps games, than we would have with just ps5/ series x.
I figured you were talking about the first part of the statement rather than the latter. Guess it was a misunderstanding then.
Well CPU would probably be the biggest bottleneck between having scalable games from Series S -> Series X. Since the Series S has a pretty comparable CPU, it'll be fine in the future.
Cpu and memory.
Cpu won't be an issue, so that leaves us with memory.
Part 1:
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Part 2, the fact that PS5 is leading in revenue but Xbox is ahead of it in unit sales means that the cheaper Series S is the one doing a lot of the heavy lifting:
I'm not saying the other consoles aren't supply constrained, they absolutely are and might even be selling better than the Series S if they weren't. However, this assumption that the Series S is not or won't be popular is just wrong.
Didn't know that, neat!
I think most devs said memory bandwidth would be their issue with series S, but I think it'll be fine.
Targeting a lower resolution helps lower the need for more memory. Not to mention technology like SFS helps overcome a lot of the issues. It will probably be fine.
Right, it's why I call it twitter console war narratives. Series S using the same SSD, CPU, GPU and Ram platforms is the main thing, yes it's going to take more work for devs to optimise for the Series S but it probably won't be anything crazy. There is tech inside the Series consoles that will help it like VRS, ML and other things that will help the Series S in the long run.
The people buying the Series S probably doesnt even know what resolution or FPS their games even run at and if they do they most likely don't care.
Yea everything I've read from knowledgeable people indicates that when developers start focusing on the net-gen systems the Series S could actually perform better than it does now.
And even if that's not the case, 10s of millions of people are going to own the Series S and games are always going to be playable on it, so how are they going to be bit in the ass exactly?
many games in the second half of gen 8 struggled with performance on the base xbone (note I am talking about the base and not the xbone S, wherein the power gap is still smaller than series S/X). I will mention a few games that have bigger problems on base xbox one that came out recently - elden ring, far cry 5, AC valhalla. Even halo infinite - a game that has more right to be optimized for base xbox than most others - has some large frame pacing issues on base xbox one. I would have liked to use DF as a source but they stopped doing base xbone comparisons altogether in favor of bone S at some point. Series S is already a 30fps targeting system and that's a huge blow for me personally going into gen 9 where 60fps has become more of a standard or is straight up a standard.
It's not an assumption, the fact that the series S has been widely available for several months while the series X/ps5 are still sold out is telling
The pandemic and subsequent component shortage weren't planned for obviously, but I do believe the advantages they planned into it, namely the lower price point, were magnified by those circumstances, so good planning in my book.
They didn't conceive, design, and completely engineer the Series S in the months following covid, lol. That sort of thing takes years.
They were always going to have a One S successor, just like they had a One X successor. Next time around they'll have a Series S successor and a Series X successor. That's their strategy.
They were always going to have a One S successor, just like they had a One X successor. Next time around they'll have a Series S successor and a Series X successor. That's their strategy.
Stock on store shelves constantly does not mean it is the same stock you are seeing on the store shelves all the time. The console is moving even if it isn't selling out.
It's certainly selling but it's wholly unpopular compared to the other systems on the market
As someone who was vehemently against even the thought if this console (and still kind of am), given the chip shortage and new games still being announced as cross-gen, it's worked out pretty well for MS.
I can't complain about the XSS when games are still being designed around the original Xbox One...
I love my XSX though! :)
I can't complain about the XSS when games are still being designed around the original Xbox One...
I love my XSX though! :)
It's smart, but it's no more or less genius than Apple offering a cheaper entry level product that gets users into their respective ecosystem (or any other similar analogy you might prefer).
Except One X is actually a last gen console and will be redundant going forward for new games that are nextgen only, whereas Series S (which has currentgen CPU, NVMe SSD, GPU) is going to be fine for the next 8 years of releases at minimum.
I can say that about a lot of companies. The Series S was in development before COVID-19 jumped to humans. Cost per transistor was stagnating before that though, so that was likely the main driver of it. The rest just a kind of coincidence.
when the standards of last gen drop, series S will be an afterthought for the industry while MS will be stuck optimizing for it since it's their product. This happened to the base xbox one and it's going to be even worse here. Being a 30fps product in the advent of a 60fps generation is already bad enough and it'll only get worse.
Except Bill Gates personally encineeres Covid 😅
According to a bunch of people on Facebook.
I think we just found his motive. Selling Series S.
This is funny seeing as how we have Switch selling like hotcakes and it's not even able to keep up with the Xbox One.
Why do I get the sense that no matter what Microsoft does it's not the direction they want them to take? We have yet seen barely any console game as demanding as Flight Simulator, yet Series S can play it. So please tell me again how Series S will be an afterthought?
Xbox one and ps4 games became better optimized when cross gen stopped. So that will happen first for many years.
How is it not planned? Lol
You just don't create a console out of nowhere without some strategy and foresight.
Did they capitalize on world wide events? Yes ofc. Because they were prepared for it.
You just don't create a console out of nowhere without some strategy and foresight.
Did they capitalize on world wide events? Yes ofc. Because they were prepared for it.
Bringing PC into the discussion just highlights how wild it is that that's an acceptable route for discussion -today-. Sure as shit wasn't when affordable PCs were running laps around console hardware midway through last generation - and I mean, it ('it' being 'low powered hardware is holding gaming back!') wasn't a good argument back then, but damn if people weren't more concious of that (or at least more willing to acknowledge that it's a half-baked argument at best).
But how does that bite them in the ass? They'll continue to have the cheapest and smallest next-gen console on the market, and it's only going to get cheaper. All publishers will continue to optimize their games for the Series S, and the only people who are going to obsess over its performance are a handful of people on this site who were never going to get one in the first place. It's actually a miracle it's selling as well as it is now considering there are very few reason to get one at this point. Once next-gen games actually start coming out it becomes a very appealing product.
Far Cry 5 was described by Digital Foundry as "a good experience" in an article literally titled "Far Cry 5 impresses on all consoles..." Assassin's Creed Valhalla had a pretty low resolution on base Xbox One but so did it on PS4 and all systems used temporal reconstruction to hit their designed resolution, frame-pacing wise it runs pretty well and has the same dips that are on the One X. Elden Ring is definitely an issue but so is the current Series X and PS5 versions, so I'm not going to put too much time into that game. I'll give you Halo Infinite but I think that game is overall just shitly optimized, even PC it chugs on moderately good systems despite its visual output.
If 30FPS is a huge deal for you, that's how you know the system isn't for you. It's for the majority of the console audience who played on base Xbox One/PS4 all last gen, even after Pro models came out because they don't care or notice lower resolutions or higher frame rates. They just want to play Fortnite, COD, sports games, etc... This doesn't change this generation. The average consumer who cares about those games isn't going to not buy an Xbox Series S because it runs at 900p instead of 1080p. This is gaming enthusiast forum where people really care about that, but in the real world no one gives a fuck. In a lot of games Series S has gotten 60FPS modes just like its counter parts. Hell it even has a bigger list of 120FPS games than PS5 currently.
If it's a 30FPS product in the advent of 60FPS generation.... then its the perfect time to release a product like it. Games that run at 60 on the higher end machines can just run at a lower resolution and 30 on the Series S. This is literally the argument that Valve made with the Steam Deck, they said the Steam Deck should actually get more life because the consoles are targeting 60 which means Steam Deck will last a while targeting 30.
It's kind of hard to say as we are still dealing with cross gen tech. The only glimpse of how it can handle future game technology has been the Matrix Awakens demo which had pretty bad artifacting and image quality on the Series S. Games like Hellblade II which is also on Unreal Engine 5 will be interesting to see on the Series S.
It is a great move from Microsoft as it is a big shift from overall units sold to how many subscriptions it can grow and maintain. They are a leader in the area of innovating for games as a service which the whole industry is shifting to for better or worse.
It is a great move from Microsoft as it is a big shift from overall units sold to how many subscriptions it can grow and maintain. They are a leader in the area of innovating for games as a service which the whole industry is shifting to for better or worse.
switch has the portability factor and nintendo's immense first party presence. It's also a product from 2017. Don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing nintendo's hardware, but the circumstances are different. I'm not sure what you mean by being able to keep up with the xbox one. I already explain how series S will be an afterthought in the post you quoted
the difference is the xbox one and ps4 were similar in power, not so for the series S versus X/ps5
it's not a miracle that it's selling, the other systems are all sold out leaving just the series S
It's a dope console. Starfield is the big test, if you can give me that game at 60fps then I'll buy one for my 2nd TV/travel 100%.
I think OP edited their post. It was originally asking if MS saw COVID/the chip shortage coming when they made Series S, which is why you're seeing the poll results skew so heavily toward "it wasn't planned". That's why I voted anyway.
fair enough, but I think people dealt with 30fps last gen more because they were forced to versus them having the choice (PC is always an option ofc but lots of people don't bother)