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Do you agree with Biden's statement?

  • Yes

    Votes: 554 47.9%
  • No

    Votes: 602 52.1%

  • Total voters
    1,156

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,189
I mean that lie is false on its face given just how much the state engages in violence, both domestically and abroad. And in many ways that violence has gotten worse with the advent of neoliberalism, not better

Right, that's what I mean by "unless it's state violence." Politicians like Joe Biden can talk about how violence is never the solution and then push for policies that advocate for state violence both overseas and domestically. He voted for the fucking Iraq War!

And like, we get it, that's the doublespeak of politicians, but even people here believe it. We can't look at Joe Biden's 50 year history in politics, but we can look at his website and just take his word for it.
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,852
No...



Not at all, but based on some of the responses in here there are people expecting him to be a radical militia leader calling for rioting and violence.

No president should condone violence in the streets and mob justice.
Stop with these fucking lies. There isn't a single post - NOT. ONE. - even close to insinuating this line of thought.

FOH with this undercover black boogeyman fearmonger play.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
He could have just not added that second paragraph.
It would have turned into round 3/4/5/6--I forgot how many times it has come up so far--of him being hounded by the media and his opponents for not "denouncing the rioting and looting". This is effectively the same statement Biden has made all year.
 

Nax

Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 10, 2018
6,676
I can delve into more detail but in a nutshell:

Democrats- court black voters in presidential primary/downticket races > swing towards white moderates in general election > ignore black communities while in office, rinse, repeat. Also, lots of tokenism, black politicians placed strategically to ratify the white status quo.

Republicans- flat-out racist against black Americans, or at least ok with racism against black Americans because they want tax cuts and deregulation.

One party is apathetic or hostile, the other straight hostile to black interests.
Thank you for the perspective
 

Ashlette

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,254
The fact that even good politicians must appeal to both oppressors and the oppressed in order to stay in power is depressing.

If this was a just country, then the votes of marginalized individuals would count more than ones from other circles. But if a presidential candidate says such a thing, then they could lose their popular vote or even their career. Getting in trouble for stating the right thing.

Ugh, thinking about it frustrates me.
 

Deleted member 6230

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Oct 25, 2017
6,118
It would have turned into round 3/4/5/6--I forgot how many times it has come up so far--of him being hounded by the media and his opponents for not "denouncing the rioting and looting". This is effectively the same statement Biden has made all year.
So what? It's the same statement he's made all year and it's still fucking TRASH.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Yeah, that twitter thread of unprovoked violence is over 1000 now, I believe. There is a Google Spreadsheet.

Damn. Knew it was rising, but not over 1000.

I mean, not surprised at all. Just tired that white moderates like Biden choose to protect violent murderous thugs who do this violence every day.

I want to say Biden's statement is a classic "both sides", which is probably why it has white folks all excited and proud - but it's not a both sides. Cause he highlights and blames only 1 side while couching his language against the cops in the most limp way possible.

As the OP noted beautifully - that for some reason gets ignored in favor of arguing the strawman that all of us here want Biden to throw a molotov:
Black people
- use of active verbs
- clear subject
- present time noted
- descriptive, powerful adjectives and verbs
- educating tone

Cops who literally murdered somebody and have been violently oppressing peaceful protests for the last 5 months
- passive voice
- unclear subject ("health crisis ends in death" fuck outta here you pieces of fucking shit)
- focus on black suffering and not the cause
- no education for murderous cops

I would say those are some good starting points for the actual positions of a lot of folks here, me included, for why we find the Biden statement absolutely garbage. And why it could be easily improved and not lose a precious white voter, or at least one you should care about more than the black people speaking out about these issues.

And the continued punditry to explain why we should expect nothing better than this garbage is getting mad played out. I was bo

No, we don't want Biden to be a vigilante. We want him to not be so fucking white moderate who even while attempting to show solidarity with black people can't help but whitewash pigs. Same kind of white moderate energy that MLK was damning 55+ years ago.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
So what? It's the same statement he's made all year and it's still fucking TRASH.
The reality is, there is no better statement to make. Not one that doesn't come with major drawbacks. Biden has consistently condemned the deaths of black Americans at the hands of law enforcement, while also decrying violence, looting, property damage, etc. because he has to. Could he do more to expand on the subject? Probably. But it's just going to get picked to death no matter what he does.
 
OP
OP
DigitalOp

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,292
So here's an honest question. I just vote blue. But reading the back and forth the last few months, I have seen the claims that black people have traditionally done worse under Democratic leadership than compared to Republican leadership. And some people will go as far as to say the Democratic party intentionally oppresses black people by constantly labeling them victims.

Now a lot of these talking points are brought up by Republican voters, so I didn't really know what to take from it. But your comment just brought it to mind. How do you feel the Democratic party treats black people, as opposed to the Republican party?

You didn't ask me but the sentiment overall is that Dems are Performative.

While Republicans are outright hostile with their policy, Dems tend to be indifferent with their policy to help specific communities

There's always some excuse, always some politically expedient move to be plotted over while our concerns get sacrificed

But then for elections they'll wave the Republicans Doomsday politics over our heads and remind us we don't have a choice in regards to self preservation.

they scream and crow about not being in power to do anything, then do damn near nothing to galvanize a bigger base of minority voters while trying to cater to moderates and 4year swing Republicans.

Then when they get in office, they are unable to do anything because "politics". They bitch when Repubs make power plays but do fucking nothing to seize the day for their non moderate supporters

It's 2 different types of animosity.

Outright hatred from the right and indifference from the left.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
The reality is, there is no better statement to make. Not one that doesn't come with major drawbacks. Biden has consistently condemned the deaths of black Americans at the hands of law enforcement, while also decrying violence, looting, property damage, etc. because he has to. Could he do more to expand on the subject? Probably. But it's just going to get picked to death no matter what he does.
The OP statement doesn't even acknowledge that his death was at the hands of law enforcement, much less condemn it.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
The OP statement doesn't even acknowledge that his death was at the hands of law enforcement, much less condemn it.
I mean, do you think many people seeing this statement don't already know the circumstances? It's clearly a response to a question with a clearly established context. If he had explained that, people would then attack him for not using strong enough language. If he used strong enough language, he would have gotten destroyed by the media. Hence my point--there isn't really a better statement he can make.
 

Rockets

Member
Sep 12, 2018
3,011
The reality is, there is no better statement to make. Not one that doesn't come with major drawbacks. Biden has consistently condemned the deaths of black Americans at the hands of law enforcement, while also decrying violence, looting, property damage, etc. because he has to. Could he do more to expand on the subject? Probably. But it's just going to get picked to death no matter what he does.
There is a better statement to make:

"Our hearts are broken for the family of Walter Wallace Jr., and for all those suffering the emotional weight of learning about another Black life in America lost. We cannot accept that in this country a mental health crisis ends in death. It makes the shock and grief and violence of yesterday's shooting that much more painful, especially for a community that has already endured so much trauma. Walter Wallace's life, like too many others', was a Black life that mattered — to his mother, to his family, to his community, to all of us.

We are all praying for the entire Wallace family, and for our nation, that we may move toward healing."

It's that easy. If he wants to make an idiotic statement about how HE thinks BLACK PEOPLE should react in the face of violence then he should craft a separate statement and put that out on its own, but putting it in the same statement is fucking disgusting.
 

Deleted member 6230

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Oct 25, 2017
6,118
The reality is, there is no better statement to make. Not one that doesn't come with major drawbacks. Biden has consistently condemned the deaths of black Americans at the hands of law enforcement, while also decrying violence, looting, property damage, etc. because he has to. Could he do more to expand on the subject? Probably. But it's just going to get picked to death no matter what he does.
I don't agree that there isn't a better statement to make. There's hundreds of statements he could've made that wasn't as bad as this one. One was pointed out to you but you dismissed it because you concern is more with Biden's electoral chances than justice for our communities. And honestly that's fine if that's where you prerogatives rests but just be honest about that and lose this tired adult in the room posture
 

Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,212
There continue to be some misconceptions here that need to be corrected for those who agree with the statement or wonder why others disagree with it.

1. No one is asking the Biden campaign to endorse or condone violence. No one likes violence. The problem is that the campaign released this statement of its own volition, one that spends more time condemning those who are mourning and angry about an act of state-sponsored violence than those who committed violence on behalf of the state. That's not good enough. Instead of facing the problems that allow for an arm of the state to murder citizens, the campaign pinned it on Donald Trump to gain votes. It's incredibly tacky. Some celebrate Biden for his empathy, but this statement performs the opposite. It's not good enough.

2. Tarnishing property and murdering a person in front of their mother are not the same thing. They can not be equated or even compared. Don't trick yourself into thinking they can be. A person who was loved and vibrant is always more important than property or objects. At the very least, your politics should have that as your starting point. If you value people more than property you will be starting in a better direction.
 

Deleted member 11413

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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Right, that's what I mean by "unless it's state violence." Politicians like Joe Biden can talk about how violence is never the solution and then push for policies that advocate for state violence both overseas and domestically. He voted for the fucking Iraq War!

And like, we get it, that's the doublespeak of politicians, but even people here believe it. We can't look at Joe Biden's 50 year history in politics, but we can look at his website and just take his word for it.
Yeah the cognitive dissonance is insane
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
There is a better statement to make:

It's that easy. If he wants to make an idiotic statement about how HE thinks BLACK PEOPLE should react in the face of violence then he should craft a separate statement and put that out on its own, but putting it in the same statement is fucking disgusting.
That statement you posted also does not directly mention that it was a shooting involving law enforcement--the initial criticism I responded to.

I don't agree that there isn't a better statement to make. There's hundreds of statements he could've made that wasn't as bad as this one. One was pointed out to you but you dismissed it because you concern is more with Biden's electoral chances than justice for our communities. And honestly that's fine if that's where you prerogatives rests but just be honest about that and lose this tired adult in the room posture
Where? I responded to someone that said he could have left out the second paragraph, but then it would have just been a statement devoid of any acknowledgement there is a problem and/or any proposals to make changes. It still doesn't do what the post I quoted said without that second paragraph--and I can guarantee if he released just the first statement, it would have turned into exactly what I said it would and/or people would have accused him of not caring about the issue.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
I'm not a politician, or a speech writer, so I can't think of a better thing for him to say, but reading that statement doesn't give me any feeling that Biden will ever call out racism in the police force. He didn't even mention the police until the paragraph talking about attacking the police. I get a measured response this close to the election, but specifically calling out the civilians, and glossing over the responsibility of the police isn't the way to do it.
 

Deleted member 6230

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Oct 25, 2017
6,118
That statement you posted also does not directly mention that it was a shooting involving law enforcement--the initial criticism I responded to.


Where? I responded to someone that said he could have left out the second paragraph, but then it would have just been a statement devoid of any acknowledgement there is a problem and/or any proposals to make changes. It still doesn't do what the post I quoted said without that second paragraph--and I can guarantee if he released just the first statement, it would have turned into exactly what I said it would and/or people would have accused him of not caring about the issue.
I'm not even saying you're wrong about that. It would have the potential of the media trying to both sides the shit and asking him questions about the looting. The thing is, I don't give a fuck. Biden is a politician he knows how to interface with the media. He has had years of experience doing so. There's opportunities for the campaign to even setup counter narratives to the looting and have that compete for the same air time. Whatever. What actually sucks is my community constantly being thrown under the fucking bus. It sucks that Biden would seemingly choose to throw us under the bus with a shit statement than rather deal with media questions something that he and his campaign are paying themselves salaries to do.
 

Sendero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
896
It's pretty simple:

A charismatic & politically smart person, that also had enough sensibility to understand the time we are living, would had seized the moment to both directly stick the spiral of violence to Republicans (not just Trump), while at the same time using it as a rally call for injustice that would unite the base.

This hypothetical politician would not need to directly mention the word "police", but would unambiguously be clear which side is the actual victim.
Instead, would contact the grassroots movement leadership and work directly with them, to handle the situation off-camera.

More importantly, would use this conjuncture as a way to self differentiate as the person that would actually make changes, for real, this time.
Give "Law and Order", the meaning that it should have.

All of this, mere days prior election.


Such person, and more importantly.. a team capable of achieving that.. is unfortunately, not in the ballot.
So, expect to this kind of reaction, in the upcoming years. Vote their ilk out, in future elections. That's the only way.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,910
Tokyo
I'm not a politician, or a speech writer, so I can't think of a better thing for him to say, but reading that statement doesn't give me any feeling that Biden will ever call out racism in the police force. He didn't even mention the police until the paragraph talking about attacking the police. I get a measured response this close to the election, but specifically calling out the civilians, and glossing over the responsibility of the police isn't the way to do it.

Same, it's probably because he never will and won't really do anything about solving it. It also lets the comfortable moderates know that they don't have to worry about being slightly inconvenienced for the sake of progress and equality for black people and other minority groups.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
I mean, do you think many people seeing this statement don't already know the circumstances? It's clearly a response to a question with a clearly established context. If he had explained that, people would then attack him for not using strong enough language. If he used strong enough language, he would have gotten destroyed by the media. Hence my point--there isn't really a better statement he can make.
1. It's not a question, it's a statement. It's sitting on the Biden website right now in response to absolutely nothing. They could've framed this however they wanted.
2. I'm attacking them now for not using strong enough language now because again, they did not condemn the shooting
3. Even if we were to accept your language catch-22, one of the options is clearly the morally correct one.

Here is the only mention of police misconduct in the entire piece:
"As a nation, we are strong enough to.. meet the challenges of real police reform, including implementing a national use of force standard"

No "police shootings", no "police brutality", no "institutional racism". Just mourning of a death from *undisclosed sources* and a whole lot of words dedicated to scolding looters.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
I'm not a politician, or a speech writer, so I can't think of a better thing for him to say, but reading that statement doesn't give me any feeling that Biden will ever call out racism in the police force. He didn't even mention the police until the paragraph talking about attacking the police. I get a measured response this close to the election, but specifically calling out the civilians, and glossing over the responsibility of the police isn't the way to do it.
He has done just that on dozens of occasions. He outright said there is implicit bias in law enforcement and that this country has a problem with systemic racism in the last debate, and in the first debate. He has done so in town halls, he has done so in speeches, he has done so on television interviews. He has acknowledged the problem.

I'm not even saying you're wrong about that. It would have the potential of the media trying to both sides the shit and asking him questions about the looting. The thing is, I don't give a fuck. Biden is a politician he knows how to interface with the media. He has had years of experience doing so. There's opportunities for the campaign to even setup counter narratives to the looting and have that compete for the same air time. Whatever. What actually sucks is my community constantly being thrown under the fucking bus. It sucks that Biden would seemingly choose to throw us under the bus with a shit statement than rather deal with media questions something that he and his campaign are paying themselves salaries to do.
The bold is kind of the point I'm trying to make. Biden and his team know how to work the media--to a point that it is driving them nuts. This statement is an example of that. He has to pre-empt concerns. He knows if he doesn't explicitly condemn rioting, looting, and various forms of violence, that is what the narrative will be. As I said just above--and could have done a better job pointing out elsewhere, my apologies--he has acknowledged that there is bias and racism in law enforcement at just about every opportunity. I can understand the frustration, but as I said, this is essentially the same response he has had multiple times, and unfortunately the statement he has to make because it is the "safe" option.
 

Deleted member 6230

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Oct 25, 2017
6,118
He has done just that on dozens of occasions. He outright said there is implicit bias in law enforcement and that this country has a problem with systemic racism in the last debate, and in the first debate. He has done so in town halls, he has done so in speeches, he has done so on television interviews. He has acknowledged the problem.


The bold is kind of the point I'm trying to make. Biden and his team know how to work the media--to a point that it is driving them nuts. This statement is an example of that. He has to pre-empt concerns. He knows if he doesn't explicitly condemn rioting, looting, and various forms of violence, that is what the narrative will be. As I said just above--and could have done a better job pointing out elsewhere, my apologies--he has acknowledged that there is bias and racism in law enforcement at just about every opportunity. I can understand the frustration, but as I said, this is essentially the same response he has had multiple times, and unfortunately the statement he has to make because it is the "safe" option.
I just can't see how comparing the property destruction in reaction to someone being murdered with someone being fucking murdered by state agents who are ostensibly here to "protect" us is in any world a good statement. I'm not interested in arguing if it's "safe" or not I'm arguing about it's value and how it frames the issues in our communities. Like you're proving my point. Biden would rather through us under the bus because it's "safe" than to spend time answer POTENTIAL media questions about looting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
He has done just that on dozens of occasions. He outright said there is implicit bias in law enforcement and that this country has a problem with systemic racism in the last debate, and in the first debate. He has done so in town halls, he has done so in speeches, he has done so on television interviews. He has acknowledged the problem.


The bold is kind of the point I'm trying to make. Biden and his team know how to work the media--to a point that it is driving them nuts. This statement is an example of that. He has to pre-empt concerns. He knows if he doesn't explicitly condemn rioting, looting, and various forms of violence, that is what the narrative will be. As I said just above--and could have done a better job pointing out elsewhere, my apologies--he has acknowledged that there is bias and racism in law enforcement at just about every opportunity. I can understand the frustration, but as I said, this is essentially the same response he has had multiple times, and unfortunately the statement he has to make because it is the "safe" option.

Gotta be honest, I tune out when he starts talking about giving the police more money. It's easier to see the words missing in a written statement where there are two distinct paragraphs with different themes per paragraph.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
1. It's not a question, it's a statement. It's sitting on the Biden website right now in response to absolutely nothing. They could've framed this however they wanted.
2. I'm attacking them now for not using strong enough language now because again, they did not condemn the shooting
3. Even if we were to accept your language catch-22, one of the options is clearly the morally correct one.

Here is the only mention of police misconduct in the entire piece:
"As a nation, we are strong enough to.. meet the challenges of real police reform, including implementing a national use of force standard"

No "police shootings", no "police brutality", no "institutional racism". Just mourning of a death from *undisclosed sources* and a whole lot of words dedicated to scolding looters.
It's my understanding it was put on his website after/alongside being the response his communication team sent out to the media asking him about it. I have a hard time believing it was a completely unprompted statement. His website contains several sections on racial inequality, and the one on Criminal Justice Reform specifically has a section about racial disparities--here I do think the language could be more clear. As I mentioned elsewhere and acknowledge I should have clarified better; Biden has on many many many occasions acknowledged systemic racism and implicit bias in law enforcement. It is an established narrative within/by his campaign.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,287
Yeah after reading the OPs post and from what I've read, I can totally agree Biden's statement is beyond frustrating. I don't agree with the statement.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,229
He has done just that on dozens of occasions. He outright said there is implicit bias in law enforcement and that this country has a problem with systemic racism in the last debate, and in the first debate. He has done so in town halls, he has done so in speeches, he has done so on television interviews. He has acknowledged the problem.

And one of his solutions is to give them MORE fucking money for "reform". Yaknow, the same bullshit him and Obama supported when they were in the white house.

Some of y'all delusional if you think Biden, Harris and the rest of the Centrist NeoLib garbage democrats are going to really take care of marginalized folks like you think.
 

Uhtred

Alt Account
Banned
May 4, 2020
1,340
I think the statement was stupid, ignorant, and incredibly offensive, IMHO. He could have expressed his sorrow at what happened, and left it at that. Would have been a milquetoast answer, but whatever. But no, he had double down on the same old rhetoric that shields police from repercussions for their incompetence and brutality.

OP goes a long way to show why it's incredibly wrong, ESPECIALLY when it comes to America and americans. We routinely bomb CHILDREN for fuck's sake without any oversight and without solid evidence of wrongdoing by targets. And these types of attacks were expanded on HIS MOTHER FUCKING watch too. So yeah, bombing children because brown people are angry at americans, a ok, but trashing a police department after decades and decades of police abuse, nah, that's not cool! Fuck off.

We ARE an inherently violent country. Abhorrently so. So just from that standpoint it's just a stupid thing to say.

And America's founding fathers sure as hell didn't believe this either.

"From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants".

And make no mistake, when peaceful cries for justice fall on deaf ears for DECADES, tyranny is what you have left.
 
Last edited:

Rockets

Member
Sep 12, 2018
3,011
He has done just that on dozens of occasions. He outright said there is implicit bias in law enforcement and that this country has a problem with systemic racism in the last debate, and in the first debate. He has done so in town halls, he has done so in speeches, he has done so on television interviews. He has acknowledged the problem.
Clearly they were empty words. His actions speak different. His statement doesn't even mention the police brutality Wallace faced. Biden has said repeatedly that he thinks most cops are good and that it's an issue of bad apples. He has a history of both sides'ing it, as seen in this video:



In this video from the convention he brings on Police Chief Art Acevedo, follows up by saying most cops are good, and then asks Eric Garner's mom how she's doing. It's insulting point blank period.

Also fun fact, Art Acevedo is a piece of shit and it's crazy that he was invited to speak.

 

AriesM4rch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
313
It's the typical centrist take when it comes to police brutality against black people that Dems and even liberals usually have. Very annoying to hear this.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
I just can't see how comparing the property destruction in reaction to someone being murdered with someone being fucking murdered by state agents who are ostensibly here to "protect" us is in any world a good statement. I'm not interested in arguing if it's "safe" or not I'm arguing about it's value and how it frames the issues in our communities. Like you're proving my point. Biden would rather through us under the bus because it's "safe" than to spend time answer POTENTIAL media questions about looting.

What some allies need to understand is that we've heard it all before.

theconversation.com

After the civil rights era, white Americans failed to support systemic change to end racism. Will they now?

In principle, white Americans support efforts to end racism. But in practice, they have long been unwilling to support the fundamental change needed to do that. Will this year’s events change that?
Monumental legislation like the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 passed, purportedly guaranteeing protection from racial discrimination in many public spaces and equal opportunity to register to vote and cast a ballot.

Additionally, whites were increasingly likely to report attitudes that many would now view as nonracist over the following several decades. For example, white Americans were more willing to have a nonwhite neighbor. They were less likely to support ideas of biological racism or the idea that whites should always have access to better jobs over Blacks.


But these changed values and attitudes among whites never fully translated into support for government policies that would bring racial equality to fruition for Blacks.
White Americans remained uncommitted to integrating public schools, which has been shown to drastically reduce the so-called racial achievement gap. Whites never gave more than a modicum of support for affirmative action policies aimed to level the playing field for jobs and higher education.

This phenomenon – the distance between what people say they value and what they are willing to do to live up to their ideals – is so common that social scientists have given it a name: the principle-policy gap.

White Americans' direct witness of police brutality led to a shift in racial attitudes and the passage of significant legislation. But even these combined changes did not radically change the face of racial inequality in American society.
Americans may choose to dig deeper this time around. Some state legislators, for example, are attempting to leverage this moment to create more systemic changes beyond policing – in schools, judicial systems and health matters.

But ultimately, Americans will have to overcome two intertwined challenges. First, they will have to learn to detect forms of racism that don't lend themselves to a mobile-phone filming. And they will have to recognize that dismantling centuries of oppression takes more than acknowledgment, understanding and well-meaning sentiment. It takes sacrifice and action.

Heard it aaaaaallllllll before. The excuses as to why black lives don't actually matter. The excuses as to why we have to continue elevating cops and both-sidesing property damage with intentional murder by tax-funded authorities and years of oppression and brutality by them. And that's just their actions against the peaceful protests.

So many ways to put out a statement that isn't just white nonsense, but apparently conceiving of such a thing is outside the scope of this universe. An impossibility.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,501
There is no overthrowing the system anymore, at least not in today's America. A bunch of people can go cosplay as anarchists and throw bricks at buildings for a few weeks, but that's not going to affect even a fraction of the larger population that will still be comfortably carrying on as if nothing's happening and will still be propping up the system.

So that boils down violence to just raising public awareness, basically. But you can raise public awareness just fine with peaceful protests, and you still ultimately need elected officials to enact the changes you want from the protests, so voting is still equally as important as protesting.

I suppose you could directly affect change through violence by going full blown terrorist and taking over cities with guerilla warfare tactics. But honestly, fuck off if you seriously support something like that.

So yes, I agree with Biden's statement. And reading all this edgelord shit promoting violence on this forum is starting to get insufferable. It's like when 4chan cheers on school shooters.

You post like rioting and looting are the only things black people do to try and steer the ship towards change. It has been rare historically amd even still is today. That said, the reality of the situation is you have a peoples who have had enough with consistently being told to shut the fuck up and sit down in response to their frustrations about police violence and killing in their communities.

There is nothing more that you can expect out of protestors and the black community. The patience with state sanctioned violence has been vast an unending. Why the fuck should anyone, in 2020, sit here and call property destruction amd looting an inappropriate response to a state that for centuries has literally oppressed black bodies and does everything in its power including team up with literal white supremacists to keep them down? Have you not seen the dozens and dozens of videos of the police literally instigating violence and terrorizng peaceful protestors?

No one here has actually pushed for violence as a "thee" solution. Many people here however have reached the point where they do not give a fuck about property and capital goods protection under the guise of a social contract when the state has shown literally 0 desire to act in good faith. That's not edge lord shit. That's called fucking history repeating itself.

What a bad faith post.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
It's my understanding it was put on his website after/alongside being the response his communication team sent out to the media asking him about it. I have a hard time believing it was a completely unprompted statement. His website contains several sections on racial inequality, and the one on Criminal Justice Reform specifically has a section about racial disparities--here I do think the language could be more clear. As I mentioned elsewhere and acknowledge I should have clarified better; Biden has on many many many occasions acknowledged systemic racism and implicit bias in law enforcement. It is an established narrative within/by his campaign.
If the Biden campaign is as consistently good at acknowledging racism as you say it is, I would expect them to bring it up in response to someone actually being killed by the police. Y'know, the topic that this thread is about.

I don't want to get too deep into Dem policy BS because that's off topic, but I would point out that it doesn't specifically mention police killings and actually gives more credence to the idea that the police's lives are at risk than actual black people. Maybe that why the statement spent all of half a sentence trying to explain how Biden's proposed policies would've stopped this.

Edit, to address this specifically:
It's my understanding it was put on his website after/alongside being the response his communication team sent out to the media asking him about it. I have a hard time believing it was a completely unprompted statement.
Be that as it may, its only framing is as a statement on the killing. That's the title, not "statement on civil unrest in Philadelphia" or "response to the media". If yourself (someone who is very clearly famiiar with the Biden campaign) can't figure out the correct context beyond the one given by the text, how is any random visitor to Biden's site supposed to? The Biden website has general statements in response to all types of news, this was just between one of Biden praising the governor of Michigan and one praising the protestors in Belarus for standing up to stun grenades and mass detentions (lol).
 
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Aug 2, 2018
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User Banned (Permenant): Dismissing minority concerns and arguing in bad faith, prior ban for concern trolling. Account in junior phase.
Even his father asked everyone to stop looting and destroying their own community. I guess he is a racist asshole as well?
 
OP
OP
DigitalOp

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,292
I think the statement was stupid, ignorant, and incredibly offensive, IMHO. He could have expressed his sorrow at what happened, and left it at that. Would have been a milquetoast answer, but whatever. But no, he had double down on the same old rhetoric that shields police from repercussions for their incompetence and brutality.

OP goes a long way to show why it's incredibly wrong, ESPECIALLY when it comes to America and americans. We routinely bomb CHILDREN for fuck's sake without any oversight and without solid evidence of wrongdoing by targets. And these types of attacks were expanded on HIS MOTHER FUCKING watch too. So yeah, bombing children because brown people are angry at americans, a ok, but trashing a police department after decades and decades of police abuse, nah, that's not cool! Fuck off.

We ARE an inherently violent country. Abhorrently so. So just from that standpoint it's just a stupid thing to say.

And America's founding fathers sure as hell didn't believe this either.

"From time to time the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants".

And make no mistake, when peaceful cries for justice fall on deaf ears for DECADES, tyranny is what you have left.

I didn't even think about this angle so I think you for posting.

Thats hella hypocritical when you sit down to think about it.... His entire Admin bombing the hell outta brown people overseas for 8 years but wants to tell us what is justified violence....


Even his father asked everyone to stop looting and destroying their own community. I guess he is a racist asshole as well?

You read nothing. Rushed to post your take which ends up being a complete straw man with no connection to the topic........

And you think you said somethin
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,988
All the people saying "what else can he say?" really do need to try reading that OP again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,229
What would you have told him then after he made that statement? If you were face to face with his father what would you tell him

What would it take for you to actually think about the full history of Biden's legacy in politics before making some bullshit argument. If you honestly cannot understand the difference between his dad making the statement and Joe Biden then you're just a lost hope. No one is calling Biden racist for this singular statement. It's just another in a long list of his problematic history when it comes to marginalized people and support of police.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,189
I didn't even think about this angle so I think you for posting.

Thats hella hypocritical when you sit down to think about it.... His entire Admin bombing the hell outta brown people overseas for 8 years but wants to tell us what is justified violence....

Yep, it's a prime example of the doublespeak American politicians take part in. We all just sort of implicitly agree to this unspoken rule that "violence" is only called such when it's enacted by civilians. But the average American citizen, even many who style themselves as forward thinking, is unable to come to terms with the violence enacted on behalf of the state overseas and domestically.

The whole political theater starts to feel like a circus after a while. Just everyone playing pretend.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
I just can't see how comparing the property destruction in reaction to someone being murdered with someone being fucking murdered by state agents who are ostensibly here to "protect" us is in any world a good statement. I'm not interested in arguing if it's "safe" or not I'm arguing about it's value and how it frames the issues in our communities. Like you're proving my point. Biden would rather through us under the bus because it's "safe" than to spend time answer POTENTIAL media questions about looting.
The unfortunate reality is a lot of people don't see it the same way, and as much as we want it to be a moral statement, it's 6 days from an election and everything is politically oriented. I really don't love that fact, but it's the reality of things. I think Biden's history of calling out systemic racism and racial bias in law enforcement is pretty well established.

I personally think the "violence" in Philly is justified, especially after that video of them responding to a similar instance earlier this year for a white man with a knife, and seeing them never even draw their weapons. The Philly PD has spent months harassing, assaulting, tear gassing, and demonizing protestors at every turn. They tried being peaceful, that clearly didn't work, so obviously things are going to escalate. We need serious reforms, because I'm really fucking tired of these stories every couple of days/weeks. This shouldn't be happening.

And one of his solutions is to give them MORE fucking money for "reform". Yaknow, the same bullshit him and Obama supported when they were in the white house.

Some of y'all delusional if you think Biden, Harris and the rest of the Centrist NeoLib garbage democrats are going to really take care of marginalized folks like you think.

More money specifically for implicit bias and racial profiling training. It was a plan to specifically offer a counter to a lot of the local and union provided "warrior training" and other bullshit. It is--as you said--one part of his reform plan.

Clearly they were empty words. His actions speak different. His statement doesn't even mention the police brutality Wallace faced. Biden has said repeatedly that he thinks most cops are good and that it's an issue of bad apples. He has a history of both sides'ing it, as seen in this video:


This may be difficult to accept, but that's because a majority of Americans think that about cops. A NYT/Siena poll from July had the approval of "The police" at 72-23. Most Americans acknowledge that changes need to be made, but when it comes to specifics some of the policies fall flat, per Gallup. Also, from that first link, prior to this year, a majority of voters approved of the job police were doing within their communities--in June that slipped from a majority to a plurality. In April Quinnipiac had it at 65-26. That being said, just about every poll shows a strong racial divide. Obviously because those victimized by the police are more likely to acknowledge the problem.

The point I'm making, is that prior to this year--specifically prior to George Floyd's killing--public opinion wasn't so clear cut. This year has really shifted things, and I am more optimistic than ever that we will get meaningful reforms through. Do I think we can fix everything? No way. But all signs indicate it's an issue that really needs to be a priority for the Democratic Party, and if they ignore it, I (and many others) will be pretty fucking mad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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More money specifically for implicit bias and racial profiling training. It was a plan to specifically offer a counter to a lot of the local and union provided "warrior training" and other bullshit. It is--as you said--one part of his reform plan.

And this is what they claimed to do when he was in office with Obama and it did jack shit. Do you honestly think some 20 minute implicit bias training video is going to magically fix this? You can't just fix a system of racism with some training program from the woman who wrote "White Fragility"