Why Reed got to catch a stray?
Good point.
Maybe the TVA's new job is just finding every Reed in the multiverse and being like "it is imperative you don't have sex. The universe depends on it."
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Do you agree with Sylvie's decision? [Loki Spoilers]
- Thread starter jman1954goat
- Start date
Good point.
Maybe the TVA's new job is just finding every Reed in the multiverse and being like "it is imperative you don't have sex. The universe depends on it."
I just started googling this, and I'm going to need a website like Netflix's Dark just to figure out what is up with Reed, his dad, and his descendants having multiverse counterparts be core parts of their mythos.Why Reed got to catch a stray?
You really want an incel Reed Richards? You think that will go well for the survival of humanity?
We totally need Isaiah Bradley and Steve Rogers fighting side by side as Captain America
Hmm, was killing the guy who has murdered endless amounts of people and enslaved an entire universe the right thing to do? I'm gonna say yeah.
I think Sylvie made the right choice. The destruction by the TVA is as near infinite as you can get; there's really no justification for it. It also removes free will and the ability for anything to evolve beyond what already is. The ultimate conservatism.
As an aside, I wonder if I understand this correctly.
The Sacred Timeline consists of a bundle of Universes, a limited multiverse, right? It's not just one universe, or the Avengers wouldn't be able to time travel at all, for example.
HWR is just pruning any branch that expands the multiverse beyond his plan for it, which exists to prevent rival Kangs from emerging and starting the multiversal war again.
Or am I wrong and there's only one universe with one timeline under the TVA?
As an aside, I wonder if I understand this correctly.
The Sacred Timeline consists of a bundle of Universes, a limited multiverse, right? It's not just one universe, or the Avengers wouldn't be able to time travel at all, for example.
HWR is just pruning any branch that expands the multiverse beyond his plan for it, which exists to prevent rival Kangs from emerging and starting the multiversal war again.
Or am I wrong and there's only one universe with one timeline under the TVA?
He realizes there's a huge fire behind them right? One gust of wind and his cape is going to get lit on fire.And infinite number of worlds where the Avengers went wrong
Surely HWR could have found allies somewhere on the sacred timeline. Consulting former sorcerer's/scientists supreme would have potentially formed a strong governing body or force (like the TV but... smarter?).
But perhaps that's a character flaw of Kang - it's gotta be him, he's gotta be at the head always.
Would have been interesting to see how Loki & Sylvie 'ruled' - I feel like Loki could have humbled himself on the throne, given his reluctance to take it.
But perhaps that's a character flaw of Kang - it's gotta be him, he's gotta be at the head always.
Would have been interesting to see how Loki & Sylvie 'ruled' - I feel like Loki could have humbled himself on the throne, given his reluctance to take it.
He has the "Destiny Force", the ultimate expression of humanity's superhuman potential. He will be alright
No. Not because killing him was inherently the wrong choice, but because she didn't do it because she thought it was the right thing to do. She did it for revenge. There could very well have been a better option on the table, maybe even ones where he still wound up dead, and she didn't even want to take any time to consider it.
If I understand it correctly, Not whole realities, just those who were party to its nexus event. Still atrocious, but on a far lesser scale. They went to the location of nexus events, and prevented the nexus event from ever causing a new reality from being formed. That's how you get one or a few hundred people ending up beyond time to be eaten by Alioth, rather than literal whole universes numbering in the billions.
Here's what I have to say about Kang's dilemma
So yeah, the real correct choices was something other than what Kang was presenting, but whats particularly dumb about it is that under Kang's logic, if Sylvie does kill him, all that it will really happen is that his variants will come and wage war. But his assumption is that he will effectively be reborn eventually and win them all and reconquer the multiverse and recreate the TVA, so he's not even really inviting Sylvie to kill her, but just hit a reset button that will put him back in the same place.
So in the midst of being given a shitty choice manufactured by him, on top of that, she doesn't even really get to kill him!
So yeah, the real correct choices was something other than what Kang was presenting, but whats particularly dumb about it is that under Kang's logic, if Sylvie does kill him, all that it will really happen is that his variants will come and wage war. But his assumption is that he will effectively be reborn eventually and win them all and reconquer the multiverse and recreate the TVA, so he's not even really inviting Sylvie to kill her, but just hit a reset button that will put him back in the same place.
So in the midst of being given a shitty choice manufactured by him, on top of that, she doesn't even really get to kill him!
I mean I think this is one of the options Loki would have been thinking about. Take over and try to find a third option. Scale down the TVA to a strictly "Hunt Kang Variants" thing while allowing free will for everyone else as much as possible or something.
All of the options are shitty; but she flat out doomed billions multiplied by countless universes... Thats not.... Like What in the hell?
Its good for the movies of course; but when thinking about it practically, I feel she should have at least thought about it longer than she did; even if she came to the same conclusion in the end.
After taking his time device, she could have literally cuffed him and then gone public and let the universe decide what to do, but perhaps Marvel fans aren't ready for a courtroom drama.
I'd rather not have true free will than be killed along with everyone I love.
It's arguable if we even have free will anyways already as is.
High concepts are not worth more than my life and the life of the people I love.
She did the right thing for cool future Marvel stories, but probably the wrong thing for universal stability.
I'm with Loki on this one. But I'm glad the MCU has opened itself to multiverse shenanigans.
I'm with Loki on this one. But I'm glad the MCU has opened itself to multiverse shenanigans.
If it was my life and my choice to make then and there, I would have left HWR as-is because no one knew they didn't have free will and things seemed safer that way.
Taking Sylvie's choice will make life hard for countless people.
If actual reality and we knew we didn't have free will, perhaps the destruction of the universe would be worth the risk.
No matter; all said and done - we're gonna get some cool multiverse stuff happening and it's gonna be cool.
Taking Sylvie's choice will make life hard for countless people.
If actual reality and we knew we didn't have free will, perhaps the destruction of the universe would be worth the risk.
No matter; all said and done - we're gonna get some cool multiverse stuff happening and it's gonna be cool.
You end up in the same place either way but not there are multiple versions of him that are doing the same thing. And if it weren't a superhero show, you'd just end up eventually losing.
Basically, she would have realistically doomed the timeline she's currently in and it'll all end up at a similar place anyway or a worse place.
Best thing to do was to take over for Kang rather than kill him and leave the throne empty.
I can see why she did it.
Probably would have done the same if I was in her position.
It was a terrible decision.
Probably would have done the same if I was in her position.
It was a terrible decision.
So, if you take over, you'll maintain the "peace" that the universe has been going through, sure, you "prune" variants, but the alternative means unleashing an infinite number of psychopaths who can control time itself and are hellbent on conquering/destroying all life on all universes, well gee, personally, fuck free will, I want to live
Since her decision involved not even considering enchanting him (granted, no one else in the room brought it up either, including the guy with the biggest stake in remaining alive), uh... no.
Probably the single biggest writing goof of the show there, to have this ability be pivotal to several moments up to and including the climax of the very previous episode, and then not address it at all in this final confrontation where it has a glaringly apparent utility.
Probably the single biggest writing goof of the show there, to have this ability be pivotal to several moments up to and including the climax of the very previous episode, and then not address it at all in this final confrontation where it has a glaringly apparent utility.
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I don't agree with her choice personally but it makes sense for her character after everything she's been through.
HWR reveals 3 major lies in just that one confrontation. That there were never Timekeepers, that he orchestrated their whole journey, and that he lied about the end of his knowledge.
That's on top of killing her family, destroying her reality, and having her hunted for hundreds/thousands of years forcing her to take refuge in apocalypses which means up through that point literally everyone she ever met or spoke to probably died.
He was incredibly untrustworthy and absolutely a monster, it's just that he was a monster to all realities except one. It was a miracle that Sylvie ever even STOPPED trying to kill him.
If it didn't work on Loki's mind I very much doubt it would have worked on HWR, though they could have spared a second of her at least trying or a line explaining that it wouldn't work.
i mean he says he's a good kang.... but he's a genocidal maniac.... who's to say he isnt really bad, and that maybe there are actually some better kangs out there that can come up with better solutions.
#TeamSylvie
#TeamSylvie
Loki was the only talking sense in that room. I'm not saying I don't understand her but it's really stupidity driven by emotion. If she was going to kill him then you may as well as replaced him rather than leaving a vacuum there
When you put it like that, all I can think about what the US did in the Iraq War and how they made things even worse for everybody because they decided to sort out the consequences later.
The well problem there of course is that they never bothered sorting out any consequences because the US government has notoriously bad writers. Some say they're also responsible for all the recent Star Treks.
If Kang has already pruned/killed all the other Kangs, how does killing him "at the end of time" bring them back?
I mean, we had their excuse for solving the grandfather paradox (you create a branch where you were never born, but you continue to exist on your branch). That works fine.
But now they want us to accept that if I die after killing my grandfather, he will somehow come back to life.
I mean, we had their excuse for solving the grandfather paradox (you create a branch where you were never born, but you continue to exist on your branch). That works fine.
But now they want us to accept that if I die after killing my grandfather, he will somehow come back to life.
His death means that retroactively nothing gets pruned, or at least not in the same way, thus allowing events to transpire away from the sacred timeline. What you did to your grandfather doesn't matter, because you're not the super god at the end of time whose existence keeps everything in all universes happening the same way.
Not only was it the right choice because of all the pain and suffering he'd caused but also why would you believe anything he says? Even once they'd found his hiding place he tried to get the clock to make them an offer to go away, that doesn't sound like someone who really knows everything...
My wife made what I thought was a good point - if they kept things as-is, restricting free wheel for the sake of peace that sounds terrible. But only Loki/Slyvie would need to know. Most of the actual populations of worlds wouldn't actually realise they don't have free wheel so for most people life would go on as normal. So in some respects Sylvie's decision can be seen as a selfish one as she doesn't want that knowledge on behalf of others - not necessarily a selfless one about wishing free will for everyone
I'd adjust the pruning to try and put people in places other than the void though
My personal view is she was right
I'd adjust the pruning to try and put people in places other than the void though
My personal view is she was right
infinite multiverses, infinite Kangs, even if they're not called Kang. You remove all of him you'll still have someone come along and do the same thing
Exactly this, she spent centuries on the run, plotting her revenge. It would be a total ass pull if she didn't kill him. I'm surprised that not everybody gets it.
IIRC she said in the last episode that she was on the run from TVA before Loki even existed, which suggest she's considerably older than him.
A multiversal war literally lead to him feeding countless realities to a cloud monster. That's all that's going to happen again and based on the ending of Season 2 where Loki is now in ANOTHER TVA with a huge Kang statue I assume it's already happened. An infinite number of kangs are going to destroy an infinite number of realities until someone works out how to stop him and I think until we get someone like Reed Richards involved it's not going to happen.
Sylvie should've kept him alive and they could've both used his knowledge of himself to prevent this from happening, killing him solves nothing.
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The problem here is you're taking Kang at his word, even though he is likely the most vile, cruel and evil of all the Kangs. Just because he got bored of killing a practically infinite number of people doesn't make him any less horrific.
Ultimately he's the only Kang that weaponised Alioth, even though he obviously wasn't the only Kang that considered it. There's no doubt that entire universes were wiped off the map by the Kangs fighting each other, but only one of those Kangs destroyed basically all but a few thousand universes out of a fundamentally infinite multiverse. That makes him the worst Kang of them all.
For all we know, he was the Kang that started the multiversal war while all the other Kangs were happily collaborating and bettering their universes.