I don't like these low percent bonuses but I definitely felt them since I first experienced them in World of Warcraft
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Do you actually "feel" the % bonus on equipment or do you just like that the number tells you you're getting it?
- Thread starter sn00zer
- Start date
Did you really put Destiny and God of War in the same sentence, with 'loot heavy' in it? lol
In the GoW case yeah I could feel the difference so it was nice, but while playing Destiny 2 and a The Division 2 it justf felt like I was losing time changing one weapon for another that was 2% better because 2 minutes later I was changing again for another that was 4% better, then 3 minutes later 1% better...
In the GoW case yeah I could feel the difference so it was nice, but while playing Destiny 2 and a The Division 2 it justf felt like I was losing time changing one weapon for another that was 2% better because 2 minutes later I was changing again for another that was 4% better, then 3 minutes later 1% better...
The issue is that your character level is the most import stat. The numbers are just there to keep you in the grind/loot cycle where you soon have to collect bazillion of ressources to upgrade a thing. And it doesn't even matter when an enemy is a few levels above you because he has like 5 times your HP and kill you with three blows. So I really feel you on this. This is not RPG design I used to love almost 20 years back.
I tend to favour what people have called "horizontal progression" too, but in RPGs where numbers do matter, I agree it's tedious when the bonuses are too mild.
That said, the key is often to stack them. If even after stacking you don't notice a difference, then the problem is probably with the game being designed or balanced poorly.
A lot of people have brought up AC Odyssey, and it's true that it has a lot of bullshit, useless, weak-ass modifiers. But, it also has some seriously noticeable ones if you stack them, like the examples Crossing Eden posted. I don't know what the game is like on Normal, but on Hard, some enemies and bosses are not pushovers and I really needed to stack as much as possible to succeed, like stacking Rage of Ares (or whatever it was called) with Hero Strike etc. which did massive blows on a build that stacks Assassin Damage.
But then the Demigod set kinda had a ridiculous 30% bonus across the board so I kinda just wore that forever after getting it... >.>
That said, the key is often to stack them. If even after stacking you don't notice a difference, then the problem is probably with the game being designed or balanced poorly.
A lot of people have brought up AC Odyssey, and it's true that it has a lot of bullshit, useless, weak-ass modifiers. But, it also has some seriously noticeable ones if you stack them, like the examples Crossing Eden posted. I don't know what the game is like on Normal, but on Hard, some enemies and bosses are not pushovers and I really needed to stack as much as possible to succeed, like stacking Rage of Ares (or whatever it was called) with Hero Strike etc. which did massive blows on a build that stacks Assassin Damage.
But then the Demigod set kinda had a ridiculous 30% bonus across the board so I kinda just wore that forever after getting it... >.>
Yes, agreed. This annoyed the shit out of me in AC Odyssey. I think the numbers went in the 5 or 6 digits sometimes, shit was impossible to parse.
As someone who just started playing SWTOR again, absolutely. One buff on its own is negligible but when you've got multiple buffs going at once and you've got enough skills to have proper rotations, you're a god. Super satisfying.
If it's a nice weapon you can simply take it to a blacksmith and have them bring it to your current level.
I've been on the same legendary sword for a very long time. I just get it leveled up every few levels.
It's funny I went into the Apex firing range and the attachments barely feel like they do anything.
With the big numbers, you know on paper that your stats are technically better with each new equipment, but a small +1% can get lost.
That's why I like Paper Mario's system. Every badge you get potentially has a big effect, and a +1 DMG or +1DEF attribute is a night and day difference.
That's why I like Paper Mario's system. Every badge you get potentially has a big effect, and a +1 DMG or +1DEF attribute is a night and day difference.
Playing Crash Team Racing a lot (and right now) and I keep equipping the Grand Prix themed items that give you xp (nitro fuel) percentage increases even though at the end of the race I get 6 pts (or 18 online). When there are challenges to do, you get more but it's fucking absurd how little they give by default.
most games are pretty good about this, even ones i don't particularly like.
issue is with online loot-focused games that drive you through some trash loot cycle unless you do a raid or whatever. not that that's a "bad" thing per se as it's the nature of those games, but yeah
issue is with online loot-focused games that drive you through some trash loot cycle unless you do a raid or whatever. not that that's a "bad" thing per se as it's the nature of those games, but yeah
It'll never happen but I do wish the industry could collectively get over putting half baked RPG mechanics in every game. Most games with these tiny incremental boosts either don't have the depth to offer any build variety or the stats are almost perfunctory because they don't want the dissonance when a shot doesn't go where the reticle is aimed at. Which is fine, just pick one or the other rather than the worst of both.
Yep. Need to see numbers get bigger, preferably in green.
Though if the game makes me feel more impact, it's even better.
Loot (if any) in single player story-based games should all have unique effects instead of (or in addition to) raw stat upgrades. Make choosing your equipment actually interesting.
Agreed. For example, SotN was great about showing the difference in what you equip right away. You hit a guy with a stronger weapon and you see the increase in damage (if you have the relic to show damage). The percentages never feel like they show me what they're doing to my stats.
In Monster Hunter World I could definitely feel the difference having just 1 level of a skill.
Maybe not so much the damage skills, but those QoL stuff that makes things just a little bit faster could save your life.
Maybe not so much the damage skills, but those QoL stuff that makes things just a little bit faster could save your life.
Incremental increase can be hard to gauge - like weight gain or hair growth - but when you return to some earlier area after ten hours of play you can definitely feel the difference. The bigger problem with Diablo-style power scaling is that it doesn't work well in every setting. Assassin's Creed and The Division are the two biggies for me. I think Yahtzee Croshaw put it best in his Assassin's Creed Origins review:
I do appreciate the numbers going up, but i prefer the Dragon Quest system, where all numbers are deliberately held low.
You start out getting 1 dmg from slimes while you deal maybe 5, and the progression is so well made, when you encounter something lategame and deal 255 dmg it feels like a world appart, even though its not that big a numerical change, at least compared to other games where damage goes so high it isnt even shown without letters like k anymore.
You start out getting 1 dmg from slimes while you deal maybe 5, and the progression is so well made, when you encounter something lategame and deal 255 dmg it feels like a world appart, even though its not that big a numerical change, at least compared to other games where damage goes so high it isnt even shown without letters like k anymore.
I know I felt it when I upped critical in Nier:Automata. Destroyed everything and made the game trivial. But in games like Destiny or whatever it's just a number, and barely even that. Enemies scale at the same rate it seems, so it all feels very superficial.
I think this problem mostly presents itself to me in mmos like WoW. Especially when using transmog heavily.
I remember my friend telling me how frustrating it is to farm a mythic dungeon just to get the same ring with +1. And honestly, it seems so boring to me.
I remember my friend telling me how frustrating it is to farm a mythic dungeon just to get the same ring with +1. And honestly, it seems so boring to me.
It doesn't depend on me but the game. A game where every number counts, yes, you absolutely feel the difference for such things. Like, my personality does not affect my ability to feel the fact that I survived what is otherwise an instant kill.
But most games these days just add pointless fluff numbers, like Assassin's Creed series. Those are whatever.
But most games these days just add pointless fluff numbers, like Assassin's Creed series. Those are whatever.
It has the opposite effect for me. The difference between 37 and 42 feels miniscule and is barely noticeable while going from 3700 to 4200 feels like a relevant difference even though both are the same % increase.
I'm more in the first camp - Dark Souls does this well. Most early weapons only have 60-100 base and level increases will only add 1-2 points of damage, which make upgrades (that can add 10-12) feel really significant and scaling, which can add a whole lot more, feel strategically worth optimising for.
This would all mean relatively little though, if enemies weren't excellently balanced. Starting enemies are about three hits each to down, but by the time you've gained 10 levels and two weapon upgrades you'll be dropping them in two, and two of three more upgrades later (moving towards mid-game) you'll be cutting them down in a single hit.
I think the problem so often with these systems is that the enemies are often too spongy and not especially tough to fight, so upgrades don't feel as significant. Raising the skill ceiling and lowering the health pool helps makes those upgrades feel more transformative.
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I think people might feel differently about stacking bonuses in AssCreed if they played on Hard. I'm betting on Normal/Easy it's really "who cares?", but stacking bonuses makes a difference on Hard.
That's why I always hold back upgrading. Minimal increases are shite, i wait until I can enjoy a nice chunky jump.
Most games these days have level scaling so no one can feel it. Its just there to keep the mindless gamers enthralled by a meaningless number to keep them grinding in the hopes they will buy dlc
It did occur to me playing Odyssey that most of that shit could be bugged and I wouldn't even notice it. When your attacks are in the thousands, health pools are hundreds of thousands, and all of it is affected by a dozen % modifiers, you kinda just pick the biggest numbers and hope things work as they should under the hood.
When you play other arpg's you realise how amazingly well Diablo does loot.
I love tinkering and experimenting with stats. It's hard to remain interested when I have so little control over my experience.
I got frustrated with Destiny 2 once I realized just how little stats mattered. Bungie has weapons on such a tight leash. No amount bonus range is going to have any significant impact on something like a sidearm.
So to answer the topic, I like to feel the difference.
I got frustrated with Destiny 2 once I realized just how little stats mattered. Bungie has weapons on such a tight leash. No amount bonus range is going to have any significant impact on something like a sidearm.
So to answer the topic, I like to feel the difference.
This post is golden and I totally agree.
So here comes a rant against Odyssey. I lost interest in Odyssey precisely for these reasons and that is coming from someone that 100%ed AC: Origins which was my first AC game after Unity, which I never finished. Exploring tombs in ancient Egypt felt like a breath of fresh air after all the assassins vs templar story arch. However the way they took towards a lite rpg with possible MTX, coin for skins and better stuff which is arguably its weakest point took a much worse turn in Odyssey, so much so that I started to not care for its story or its metaphysical aspects (which were my favorites in Origins DLCs). Also, the way that you were pushed to flip flop between two sides for loot with measly % upgrades coming from stupid battles was in my honest opinion ridiculous as it was removing any weight to your decisions, it should've been that when you chose one side it becomes progressively harder and harder to survive the other sides' pressure or bounties let alone changing sides like you are choosing what to wear. Skills were present but loot more or less made them moot. So it became an Origin skin this time set in ancient Green instead of Egypt and I questioned why should I spend my time with it and stopped playing.
Now, when I think of this years great games that made me feel powerful as I progressed, like Control or SWJ: Fallen Order, I feel like these games had such great gameplay that even if their story was terrible I would play them. And fortunately they also had good stories, so they are my personal GOTY winners. They are great at pulling you towards the next phase which actually unlocks with skills that you learn as you progress. Metroidvania aspects seeped into skill system which is also integrated with exploration is great idea for unforgettable games.
Just think... if you could learn a specific and unique skill only on a specific and hard to reach island in Odyssey, what would make you feel? That feeling would trump over any loot rush the game throws at you and instead would make you long for exploration, which feels like encumbrance in its original state.
So here comes a rant against Odyssey. I lost interest in Odyssey precisely for these reasons and that is coming from someone that 100%ed AC: Origins which was my first AC game after Unity, which I never finished. Exploring tombs in ancient Egypt felt like a breath of fresh air after all the assassins vs templar story arch. However the way they took towards a lite rpg with possible MTX, coin for skins and better stuff which is arguably its weakest point took a much worse turn in Odyssey, so much so that I started to not care for its story or its metaphysical aspects (which were my favorites in Origins DLCs). Also, the way that you were pushed to flip flop between two sides for loot with measly % upgrades coming from stupid battles was in my honest opinion ridiculous as it was removing any weight to your decisions, it should've been that when you chose one side it becomes progressively harder and harder to survive the other sides' pressure or bounties let alone changing sides like you are choosing what to wear. Skills were present but loot more or less made them moot. So it became an Origin skin this time set in ancient Green instead of Egypt and I questioned why should I spend my time with it and stopped playing.
Now, when I think of this years great games that made me feel powerful as I progressed, like Control or SWJ: Fallen Order, I feel like these games had such great gameplay that even if their story was terrible I would play them. And fortunately they also had good stories, so they are my personal GOTY winners. They are great at pulling you towards the next phase which actually unlocks with skills that you learn as you progress. Metroidvania aspects seeped into skill system which is also integrated with exploration is great idea for unforgettable games.
Just think... if you could learn a specific and unique skill only on a specific and hard to reach island in Odyssey, what would make you feel? That feeling would trump over any loot rush the game throws at you and instead would make you long for exploration, which feels like encumbrance in its original state.