Do the typical "long indie sections" hurt big game showcases?

[stupei]

Exactly. You need to factor in the general energy level of the whole presentation. Having a bunch of trailers that have similar vibes or gameplay structures one after the other is a total pacing killer and these companies should honestly be better at that by now.

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At this point it's so consistently bad across a lot of these showcases that I assume it might be deals between platform holder and developers to get certain specific placement within the front or back of the showcase that's handled exclusively on the business side and the creatives who know better don't get a say.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

At this point it's so consistently bad across a lot of these showcases that I assume it might be deals between platform holder and developers to get certain specific placement within the front or back of the showcase that's handled exclusively on the business side and the creatives who know better don't get a say.

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"We'll just stick all the indie games in the very middle when people are most likely to get bored and distracted" seems to be the running theme.

What's puzzling is that even WITHIN the indie sections the pacing and positioning of the games in question is really bad.

 

[Plinkerton]

For me, I don't think it's necessarily the fact that it's indie games, it's more that they all tend to be total unknowns and you're asked to care about them.

Pitching a new IP or concept is much harder than pitching something familiar and I think the way they tend to be grouped together does them a disservice. It ruins the pacing and leads to diminishing returns as viewers stop paying attention and start wondering when something they actually have an attachment to will appear.

Personally I tend to zone out after a while unless something familiar turns up or something new particularly stands out.

I think that PS5 show would have been better if they'd thrown RE8 or Demon's Souls in at the halfway point, rather than near the end, to break up that middle section a bit. Instead it felt very front and back heavy.

 

[Border]

You might say you like indies, but let's face it, we both know you were bored as shit watching that Bugsnax trailer.

 

[Kthulhu]

You say that but a lot of indie games sell really well even to the hardcore market.

That being said, I think with a new console announcement people mainly expect exclusives and a bunch of Indies that'll probably come to every platform is understandably less interesting especially to those who don't care for Indies.

 

[Yog-Sothoth]

I also noticed how during this section the viewer count dropped from a little over 2M to around 1.93M.

 

[Wise]

Yes because it ruins the pacing

 

[Com_Raven]

Surely it can't be argued this PS5 event is not a mainstream event. You don't get these kinds of views without it being something of interest to the general public.

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Depends how you wanna look at it. There are hundreds of millions of people playing video games. If you compare it to that, the views (while very impressive, ofc course) don't scream "mass market audience".

 

[monmagman]

I don't play that many indies but I never know when I'm going to see something that interests me....it's good to have them there....and I imagine it's pretty tough to fill an hour long show with just AAA bangers.

 

[Scottoest]

Sorry to say this, but yes. Torpedoed Xbox May event. I was watching PS5 event with friends, and energy levels dropped massively, as we all were waiting for the next big game.

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The Xbox thing was poorly received because it had almost no "gameplay" in it, and many people went in believing it was going to be to third party games, what their July event was going to be for first-party, which we now know was never the case. I suspect Greenberg hyping up AC gameplay only inflamed the belief that big-name third-party games would be there in force.

Instead, they showed off some smaller games, with a smattering of trailers for bigger ones like Dirt, Madden and AC Valhalla. Several of those games looked cool, and might have been even more positively received if we actually saw footage of... the games, lol.

When it comes to indie games, I just wish they'd stop showing off games that are apparently nowhere near release at the time - The Last Night, Session., Tunic, etc. The Artful Escape was shown at Microsoft's 2017 conference! Three years ago!

 

[Uzupedro]

The problem with the indie games section is not because of the indies itself, but because 90% of the time they break the rhythm of the presentation, it would be much healthier for the pacing of the presentations if they made it clear what kind of thing we would see next and keep the same ''type''(sorry for the generalization) of game until the end of these sections.
But whoever complains about the presence of the indies is an asshole, many interesting and unique games are shown to the world there.

 

[theAllseeingEYE]

Some of the indie games at both the XSX and PS5 reveals were the highlights of the show. Where they may lack in technical ability and budget, they generally more than make up for in sort of creativity and variety that AAA games are sorely lacking.

I would also argue that Sony's PS4 conference was bolstered big time because of their indie presence.

Perhaps they could spread these games throughout the show more? I think MS has usually done a great job showcasing these at thier E3 events recently. I think there were just one or two games at the PS5 event in particular that were strange choices.

 

[Master Alucard]

yes. indies here and there through the presentation are fine, but long sections kills it. most are niche, with niche audience, and the average spectator is gonna just flip is phone while he waits

 

[Firestorm]

If you mean the segements which stitch together a bunch of random 5 second clips of indie games, yes. If you mean full trailers, no. This is what helps put some of those independent games on the map. If you're just looking for sequels, do you even need a trailer? You know if you want the game or not based off the previous title.

The two most interesting games for me in the PlayStation Reveal was the game I keep calling "Wes Anderson's Uncharted" because I can't remember the title and Deathloop.

 

[Cooking]

I play plenty of indies and usually don't mind it, but for the XSX and PS5 showcases, yes it is a little strange, especially when you're supposed to be showing off your next gen tech but featuring an indie game that looks like it runs on a ps3

 

[newmoneytrash]

if anything they underserve i die games by always just throwing them together in a montage instead of treating them as equal to the AAA reveals

 

[TheRulingRing]

The idea that only "hardcore gamers" play indies is weird to me considering Steam most played games list: https://store.steampowered.com/stats/Steam-Game-and-Player-Statistics

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Steam does seem to be a bit of an outlier. From my understanding though a lot of major AAA PC games aren't on Steam?

Also, compare that to the Xbox most played list and.. yeah it's not pretty for the indies is it?

 

[KillstealWolf]

Matter of perspective, I tend to like the indies, but basically fall asleep during the Madden/Fifa showcases. I assume it's the inverse for others though.

 

[AquaWateria]

It's crazy that one of the biggest games for me from the Sony conference was Kena and that was a indie game.

 

[Deleted member 2254]

Only if you hate fun.

 

[Deleted member 45130]

I voted yes because a large percentage of those games are just not for me at all. Bugsnax and the volcano high game are just not my cup of tea and so that killed some of the excitement for me personally. I was hoping for a few more heavy hitters in the AAA department.

There were a few I loved the look of though, Kena being one of them. There was also another one that had a funny trailer showing different aspects of people's life in a cool art style.

Anyway, they don't bother me too much, I appreciate that there is a much bigger audience to cater for than just me. Glad that devs get to make the games they want and people want to play them, it's great that there are more players.

 

[Akumatica]

As AAA games take longer to make, along with bigger teams, budgets, exclusivity deals to alleviate risk, GaaS taking up dev time etc.. People upset about indie games are going to have even more to complain about.

 

[Martinski]

I generally zone out during indie showcases anyway, there are times I do play indie games but that is after the fact they got good WoM and reviews..

 

[bombermouse]

In a sea of boring AAA games, indie games usually have some interesting to say, so, no.

 

[Otakunofuji]

They're usually my favorite part because most AAA games are boring.

 

[breakdancing duck]

Some of my favorites are smaller games. That said, I want Sony and Microsoft to convince me to upgrade and many indies look like they'll play equally well on an Xbox One X.

 

[JamesQuall]

No way. Would much rather get a sustained burst of stuff I'm probably interested in and unaware of than a deep dive into the next highly touted multiplayer focused battle royale or survival game.

 

[Fdkn]

I get the snacks while they show madden, fifa, AC and call of duty.

Get rid of them and give me more (good) indie games

 

[Vitet]

They have to spread them and that's it. Usually they are a good thing to show diversity. Usually big titles are all third-person shooters/adventures with some sports/car games mixed with that. Having a game you play as a cat, a game you eat living fruit and become that, a college professor who investigates paranormal activities or a narrative adventure with anamorphic dinosaurs, at least is refreshing.

In my group of friends almost nobody cares for the sports/car games and a lot of them are interested in some of the indies of the PS5 conference.

 

[Max A.]

Yes, the people I know talked about how bad the conference was because they mostly showed kid games and shit no one cares about.

 

[JasonV]

Its not great. There's a certain indie look or vibe or feel that blurs them together. I think they need to present them better. We know indies dont have the budget to be graphic/sound spectacles. So they need to emphasise something else.

No one buys $500/600 devices to play indies.

Ill get them on GOG when the reviews come in. So, yeah its kinda underwhelming.

 

[IIFloodyII]

If they look good no, liked all but like 2 from the PS event. If they weren't there people would just complain it was too short or some bollocks. They wouldn't just be replace by more AAAs.

 

[DoctorDave]

I voted no. They need (and deserve) the exposure. Even though I don't buy many indie games myself, once in a while I'll find one that clicks with me, that I probably wouldn't have heard of otherwise. I doubt we have detailed stats on the matter, but I bet having your game in a Nintendo Direct for example boosts your sales tremendously.

Edit: after reading myself I noticed I didn't really answer the question. ;-) But no, I don't think they hurt the presentations. More diversity is better.

 

[Etrian Darkness]

They only hurt it because people don't want to watch non-shiny video games.

 

[Haint]

I definitely left the room during that seemingly 20 minute trailer for Snackbears or whatever the fuck that nonsense was. The other indie games were well curated and seemed pretty cool though.

Depends how you wanna look at it. There are hundreds of millions of people playing video games. If you compare it to that, the views (while very impressive, ofc course) don't scream "mass market audience".

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The event has likely been viewed by over 20 million unique individuals in only 4 days, when accounting for all the restreams. That is a comparable audience to a $2XX million grossing opening weekend at the box office. If that doesn't qualify as mass market, nothing does.

 

[orochi91]

Yes.

They don't belong on a next-gen unveil presentation.

The only exception I can think of is if they're demonstrating some unique gameplay mechanic/concept that warrants being on stage.

 

[Deleted member 54073]

They can but they need to be used and shown correctly, I agree with the PS5 event I was sat there waiting for the next big thing and it was one or two smaller games too many in my opinion. It also depends on the event, in a next-gen reveal special event I'm not sure some of those games should have been shown.

 

[Exile In Mudville]

Y'all remember how dreadful Sony's 2018 E3 was? Sure the big game trailers were nice, but the pacing killed so much of that conference and the only thing that wasn't AAA during the main show was the Justin Roiland VR game (the FromSoft VR game afterwards doesn't count). When seeing a bunch of games I value smaller projects being shown off wherever they can get in.

 

[EggmaniMN]

If they weren't included for the PS4 reveal, the console would have had like 5 games shown and the best game of the launch, Resogun, would have been entirely absent. What a colossal blunder that would be.

 

[Damn Silly]

Personally, no, because they tend to be where the interesting game concepts are.

On a wider level, it can depends on how they're showcased and the games in question.

 

[SageShinigami]

But 30 million people get CoD every year, hardly the same thing.

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CoD still sucks the wind out of the room when it gets shown off at E3.

 

[Deleted member 135]

For me, yes. I basically tuned out for the middle of the PS5 conference. At least it was book-ended by two huge games, Spidey MM and HFW.

 

[TheRulingRing]

Y'all remember how dreadful Sony's 2018 E3 was? Sure the big game trailers were nice, but the pacing killed so much of that conference and the only thing that wasn't AAA during the main show was the Justin Roiland VR game (the FromSoft VR game afterwards doesn't count). When seeing a bunch of games I value smaller projects being shown off wherever they can get in.

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What killed that conference was the odd placement of an intermission and the second musical segment. The actual demos of their games were received pretty well.

 

[ginger ninja]

Yup. No offence but I am not spending $500 on a launch console to buy indie games.

 

[chrominance]

I go to the bathroom any time the EA Sports segment comes up during their conference. Same whenever the ESPORTS section comes up.

Guess we should get rid of those too, right?

 

[Jawmuncher]

It's good to show off indie titles, they need all the exposure they can get.
But on the other hand, the overwhelming majority of these titles are not going to be System Sellers.

As cute as Bugsnax looks, I doubt many went "This has confirmed my PS5 purchase" in a non-joking manner.
I think the better solution is to not sandwich them like they did at the PS show. The big stuff was at the start and at the end to the point where you forgot most of what was in the middle. I think better spacing goes a long way for them to retain better mindshare for those of us who do watch these streams.

 

[KartuneDX]

I'm going to say yes, specifically to the idea of "long" sections of indie trailers during "major" exhibitions. I prefer how Nintendo did it with dedicating whole Direct presentations to indie devs. I don't think an indie here and there hurts but one after another after another is overkill even after a major bomb like Ratchet and Clank.

 

[Dalcop]

The question isn't whether they hurt indies, but the show itself. And they do. Kena looked amazing, but that kind of indie game is the exception, not the rule. I'm all for exposure, but it's at the expense of mainstream excitement when the games you highlight are lacking in polish or presentation. It's up to you what you value more personally, but it is what it is.

 

[Clear]

I think they are the best part of presentation. Miss something about god of war 7? Dont worry every site and their mother's blog has the video and break down. Miss an indie gem and you might not hear about it until it is in a humble bundle a few months down the road.

 

[Rosebud]

Steam does seem to be a bit of an outlier. From my understanding though a lot of major AAA PC games aren't on Steam?

Also, compare that to the Xbox most played list and.. yeah it's not pretty for the indies is it?

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No, the vast majority of AAA games are at Steam. But I don't really know if some games are considered AAAs here (LoL, WoW, Minecraft...)