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Do tales of developer crunch decrease your enjoyment of the final product?

Does hearing about crunch lessen your enjoyment when you play the game?

  • Yes

    Votes: 120 25.9%

  • No

    Votes: 344 74.1%
  • Total voters
    464
ToddBonzalez

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
Investigative stories about crunch in the games industry have become more commonplace this generation thanks to the great work by journalists like Jason Schreier and others.

So it begs the question, did the stories about devs crunching their faces off at Rockstar lessen your enjoyment of RDR2? Do you think your first experience with highly anticipated games like The Last of Us pt. II, Cyberpunk 2077, or Doom Eternal will be lessened knowing the devs went through poor working conditions in order to create the final product?

Personally, I feel like my enjoyment of TLOU2 will be diminished by knowing a bit more about how the sausage was made. To be honest, I'll still buy it and probably enjoy it, but the human cost will definitely be in the back of my mind.

How about you?
 
Lego Killer Moth

Lego Killer Moth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,292
Yes, but the unfortunate reality is it happens on just about every AAA game, even the ones we don't hear about it on. Like just because a game doesn't have very public stories doesn't mean the people working on it didn't also go through hell to get it made.
 
The Riot Inside

The Riot Inside

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,387
No but that does not mean we shouldn't continue to advocate for better working conditions for those who are forced to crunch. Devs create games for us to enjoy so I will continue to enjoy them.
 
Dinoegg_96

Dinoegg_96

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
2,013
I've always thought the whole 'I'm gonna shed a couple of tears for those poor devs while I play this game I bought DAY FUCKING ONE!' is hypocritical as hell.
 
mikhailguy

mikhailguy

Banned
Jun 20, 2019
1,967
A little bit off-topic. I don't care about the new MK games at all, but the stories about the artists getting traumatized after researching realistic gore kind of bothered me. The games were initially meant to be campy fun in terms of the violence..not disturbing to the people making it.
 
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ToddBonzalez

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
Dinoegg_96 said:
I've always thought the whole 'I'm gonna shed a couple of tears for those poor devs while I play this game I bought DAY FUCKING ONE!' is hypocritical as hell.
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Counterpoint is, at some companies (Sony being one), devs get bonuses based on sales. So boycotting a game will directly hurt the people who worked on it. It's a tricky situation to be sure.

I think that the TLOU 2 crunch should be brought up in publications' reviews of the game to hopefully continue the discussion. Just like many baseball fans think the Astros should have an asterisk next to their World Series title because they cheated, Naughty Dog should have an asterisk next to their review scores and GOTY awards due to the insane crunch. If every review is just like, "Dope game! 10/10" while completely ignoring what we know about the production process, I'll be disappointed.
 
signal

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,170
Not really. Perhaps it should, but in terms of the start to finish production of gaming hardware and software that enables me to play games, I'd be more likely to let the experiences of people earlier down the production chain decrease my enjoyment. Though this isn't gaming specific. How many people give literally any thought to the poor conditions that allowed them to own half the things they do.
 

Deleted member 8784

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,502
Chanting "Unionise, now!" in the threads of these stories gives me enough happy chappy feel-good points that I can then play the game knowing I did my best to make the difference.
 
RivalGT

RivalGT

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,385
The last thing I think about when I play a game is how devs feel about me playing their game. Even if I knew them personally it wouldn't change anything. There is a time and a place for everything. You support devs who speak up and have issues how studios are run, and hope the word gets out so change can happen for them.
 
J_ToSaveTheDay

J_ToSaveTheDay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,775
USA
Yes, it makes me feel guilty when someone has tales of really having to give up on things they wanted in life to deliver me an entertainment product that doesn't challenge me at a philosophical level and at best really only provides temporary relief from my own problems. This is the vast majority of AAA games, in my experience.

It does not bar me from playing the game, but there is certainly a level of guilt where I'm like "jeez, someone gave up a whole lot of their life just for me to feel good for a few hours. That sucks."
 
Dinoegg_96

Dinoegg_96

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
2,013
ToddBonzalez said:
Counterpoint is, at some companies (Sony being one), devs get bonuses based on sales. So boycotting a game will directly hurt the people who worked on it. It's a tricky situation to be sure.
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Let's face it, that's just an afterthought. You'll get the game for your personal entertainment, the whole 'I'm supporting the devs!' is kind of a nice bonus, but definitely not something that affects your decision to buy the thing.
 

Deleted member 923

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,023
Not really. If it did then I'd just go around being depressed about almost everything because a lot of companies exploit or take advantage of their workers. I don't really put gaming on a pedestal to the point where I care more for devs than X workers in X industry whose products I also consume.
 
NinjaBoiX

NinjaBoiX

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
718
Obviously I would prefer crunch doesn't happen but no, it would have no impact on my enjoyment of a game.

It sucks that some people allow their employers to screw them over but at the end of the day they're adults working in a developed world, they aren't 8 years old in a sweatshop.
 
Papercuts

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,005
Doesn't really impact me at all, even if I don't really like the practice.

I will say that growing up I really wanted to work on videogames and now would never want to be a part of it.
 
Bashteee

Bashteee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,193
No, and I studied CS. Tbh, non-fixed schedules would be the best way to deliver a product if we want to avoid crunch, but people expect certain features in a timely manner. Look at Fortnite. They have all the money in the world, but you have to keep that machine rolling. Just imagine a bug with a new weapon or some shit like that, it affects >40 million (don't know how many people currently play the game) and has to be fixed ASAP, or you risk bleeding a shitload of money.
 
mxbison

mxbison

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
2,148
No.

I'd have to be sad 24/7 if I thought about the working conditions for all the stuff I buy.
 
Valkerion

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,225
Yes and No for me.

I'm aware of it and have always been aware of the bad working conditions at most companies. I'll still buy the games I want however if I'm being honest. Yeah its a bad work method and I fully support games taking longer to drop given how many we get a week either way, but boycotting work groups literally worked themselves sick over seems bad too. I get there is a cause and effect going on though.

mxbison said:
I'd have to be sad 24/7 if I thought about the working conditions for all the stuff I buy.
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Nailed it.
 
Hitcher

Hitcher

Member
Dec 23, 2018
615
No. Lots of other industries have 'pressure' periods to make sure things get done. It means I'll get a good game.
 
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ToddBonzalez

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
Hitcher said:
No. Lots of other industries have 'pressure' periods to make sure things get done. It means I'll get a good game.
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I don't like this argument at all. But to humor your line of thinking- Crunch burns people out which is why they churn out of the games industry at a high rate. Don't you think you'd be getting better games if there were more seasoned devs in the industry?
 
Linde

Linde

Banned
Sep 2, 2018
3,983
I'm not sure. don't think ive played any games where devs explicitly commented on that
hearing about how lively and friendly the development team for animal crossing new leaf was during development made me even happier to play it and have bought it though
the pictures from that one presentation put a smile on my face
 
Monster Zero

Monster Zero

Member
Nov 5, 2017
5,612
Southern California
Not at all. Alot of things I enjoy people have had to bust their ass to create. Most of the commercial buildings you use, freeways you drive, etc workers had to work tons of overtime to finish, breaking their bodies down, some even getting killed.
 
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ClickyCal'

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,430
I'm not gonna lie and say yes. My favorite game of all time that I love and seriously got me in the hobby is metroid prime, and it had crunch. Not saying it isn't sucky, but at the same time, the final game ended up also being something influenced so many people and things.
 

Deleted member 64503

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 13, 2020
110
No, I guess working 70 to 80 hr weeks in harsh environments has made me jaded.
When I sit down after a long day to enjoy a game thats the last thing I'm worried about
 
XaviConcept

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,894
We need to separate crunch from developer abuse.

In games we all work what is considered "crunch" at some point but the meaning of the word is getting diluted because "my" crunch is really nothing compared to Rockstar or Naughty Dog level crunch yet a lot of people think its equal.

Then you have an abusive developer like Rockstar San Diego that 100% does not give a shit about its employees and that puts them well ahead of Naughty Dog in the "you fucked up" rankings. ND has displayed negligence to the nth degree, but its really nothing compared to the people running RSD

To answer your question, sometimes. In the case of RDR2 I decided to not support those garbage policies and thus I havent played the game, in other games like Odin Sphere where I -have- to assume those people killed themselves over it, it makes me a bit sad and appreciative but I cant form a full opinion because I havent seen any sources talking about how hard it was to develop that game.
 
Łazy

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
I'm happy I'm not into AAA usually. I don't have to be disgusted when I decide to buy or not. And I guess all these stories make AAA look even less appealing than they already are.

I'd be quite turned off if a game I like was made by a horrible company who squeezed employees to the bones.
 
DrDeckard

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
It crossed my mind heavily while playing red dead 2. I adores the game but on regular occasion I would think how many hours and at what cost did it take to make this. It did affect my thoughts on the game, but I wouldn't say enjoyment per se.

It will be the same with last of us 2, WHEN I finally play it.
 
Bing-Bong

Bing-Bong

Banned
Feb 1, 2019
797
No, it doesn't even cross my mind while playing, but i agree it's a thing we should try to be more aware of.
 
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