Do Silent Customizable Protagonists/Player characters detract from the game experience? (Fire Emblem and Astral Chain with latest notable examples)

[Dyle]

It depends on the execution, but these two games are clearly worse off with silent protagonists. If there aren't a lot of relationships with other characters it can work pretty well, but once there are character relations where you would expect them to be speaking directly to one another, it falls apart. It's also more frustrating when the rest of the cast is fully voice acted so the silent player character sticks out like a sore thumb

 

[Acquiescence]

My philosophy is, in a game heavy on narrative at least, if I'm going to be spending hours in the company of a protagonist then they better be interesting in some way or another.

Silent protagonists are just rubbish. They have no personality, they offer no insight to their situation or surroundings and they're inconsistent with the world around them. They're just there. An empty vessel standing cross-eyed in silence while the supporting cast do all the heavy lifting does not make for a compelling dynamic between team members. They're a fossil of old-school game design and they need to be eradicated.

It's not exactly a deal breaker, and I can still enjoy certain titles in spite of them, but games are getting longer and more reliant on dialogue now, and my tolerance for them is waning as the years roll on. Thank god the likes of George Stobbart, Kat, Kazuma Kiryu, Nathan Drake, Cloud Strife and April Ryan are full-fledged characters, that's all I can say. If they weren't then the quality of the games they featured in would be severely impacted.

 

[Deleted member 10737]

not at all. at least for me, they help me connect with the game even more. i kinda hate chatty main character.

 

[ArbitraryWater]

If Fire Emblem is going to continue with the whole self-insert avatar business, then I'd much rather have someone like Byleth than the aggressively bland, dry toast personalities of Kris, Robin, or Corrin. A well-written protagonist is preferable, but I'd rather someone be silent than have an inoffensive non-personality bland enough that they might as well be silent. It's also a good cover for bad writing, like how making Isaac Clarke talk in Dead Space 2 and 3 was a mistake.

That said, I think the way it's implemented in Astral Chain is incredibly awkward. You've got all this crazy badass anime bullshit happening with everyone talking to your character constantly and they stare back with a half expression and grunts.

 

[Jonathan Lanza]

I find them lazy. They are this half step between a customizable character like in New Vegas and an actual character. But it doesn't have the self insert value of the former or the personality and development of the latter. It's the worst of both worlds.

 

[bobbychalkers]

It depends, I really don't mind how Fire Emblem does it. Byleth is a blank slate but there is enough characterization to know that they're very stoic. Meanwhile I get nothing at all from the lead in Astral Chain. Platinum protags are usually very memorable but it isn't the case in Astral Chain.

 

[Mr. Nice_Guy]

Depends on how it's done but in these two cases absolutely. Just got to a particularly emotional moment in FE and I was basically laughing because the protagonist isn't uttering a sound during the entire cutscene. It felt like a parody of silent protagonists in games. The "insert yourself" protagonist has never worked for me. They always come off as emotionless and then it's weird as to why everybody is in love with them.

 

[Dodgerfan74]

They add to it.
A silent protagonist will never say something contrary to the player's thoughts.

Click to shrink...

Staring past other characters and saying nothing at critical junctures like you have a traumatic brain injury or something is absolutely contrary to my thoughts. It's garbage.

 

[Undeniablybiased]

In games like Astral Chain and Fire Emblem? Absolutely. There's nothing added to the game by having an entirely different character speak for you while you're character just stares dumbfounded into the distance. Especially in a game with no (meaningful) dialogue options. Silent protagonists aren't the issue. The issue is that there's too many developers applying silent protagonists to game where it doesn't make sense. It's fine if Mario never talks, but games with so many cutscenes and character interactions, where the personality of your character and the things that character is going to do are set in stone, it's just dumb.

 

[Mory Dunz]

enjoying astral chain a lot, but yeah, it makes the story presentation a lot worse.

If I were a reviewer or something it'd definitely knock off a full point or half point alone.

 

[Mudo]

I've always hated silent protagonists. It doesn't make me feel like I'm the person on screen. It makes me watch them silently react to everything like they can't speak and is awkward. It actively hurts games I play and I truly hope it eventually completely disappears from gaming!

 

[Tochtli79]

I want to add that I simply don't get the idea of needing to feel like you, the player, are part of the story. I know games are an interactive medium, so that must have something to do with it, but like... is Final Fantasy VII worse off for having specific characters and no blank slate for me to be included in the story? Would the FFVII remake benefit from adding an avatar so I can be the hero the world/Cloud needs? What I'm getting at is that games have always been a sort of power fantasy and it isn't necessary to pander to the player for them to feel a part of the story, because the player is controlling the hero anyway. I felt more connected to Ike and his struggles than I ever did to Byleth, and his victories were never undermined for only happening due to my, the player's, influence, unlike in Three Houses where the fate of the characters and world literally hinges on whose side the amazing avatar is on. It just seems so egotistical to say "I can't feel invested in a game unless I'm the focus of it".

 

[NabiscoFelt]

Haven't played Astral Chain yet, but despite initial misgivings, I think the silent protagonist works for Three Houses. The game is designed fairly well around it, and it helps put the focus on the other characters in the story, who would probably be more interesting than Byleth even if (s)he did speak.

That being said, as a rule, I'm not a fan of silent protagonists. Though most of the time I see it less as "this actively hurts the game" and more as "this was a missed opportunity"

 

[Doskoi Panda]

Counterpoint: Fallout 4 vs every single Fallout RPG before it

 

[Ebullientprism]

I kinda like it. I skip cutscenes like 80% of the time anyway and its nice knowing my character doesn't give enough of a shit to say anything either.

 

[Zem]

For me yes, it's the reason I haven't picked up Astral Chain yet. I hate silent protagonists more than most people though.

 

[Igno1228]

It honestly depends on the game, plot, setting, themes, etc., etc., etc. There's no hard-and-fast answer. The Knight from Hollow Knight is fine and makes sense plot-wise, lore-wise, and theme-wise, and at the same time so does Hornet's ability to speak in Hollow Knight: Silksong.

 

[Linde]

wholely depends
i dont mind it much in fire emblem because its kind of like a window to look into the game. the focus of the story are the lords
meanwhile, i would probably hate if they made someone like Link, or the pokemon protagonist talk. the latter would be awful

 

[Fawz]

I think it can work when Gameplay is the focus and customisation is deeply linked to the game elements, but I can't think of a single instance where a silent protagonist in a story focused game worked out (for me). It always distracts from the experience, and if the other characters in the world like you talk then it frustrates me.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

i don't like them personally, i find it detracts from immersion rather then adding to it

 

[Kinthey]

I'm reminded me of this sequence in Homefront where the player character is suspected of being a spy. Then the whole situation resolves itself and you turn from suspected spy to ally, all without ever saying a single word. It's just so weird.



I'm honestly a bit more forgiving towards japanese games as it at cuts down the budget and is a bit of a tradition, but I don't know why you'd make such a cinematic fps where people are rigged up with facial motion capture etc. and then tarnish it this way.

 

[sxiebonjour]

I mean, at least give them a ghost or Mornaga that speak and read everything for you.

 

[Death Penalty]

If you're interacting actively through dialogue choices on a regular basis there's some justification for it. And I mean like meaningful, constant dialogue choices, not the occasional nothing one that doesn't alter the course of anything. If you're just doing something like Dragon Quest XI then the silent protagonist just staring totally emotionless while people do things like react to tragedy around him then that's the worst. It really took away from the game's otherwise charming narrative for me.

 

[Deleted member 679]

I like it, actually. Wouldn't want every game to be like this, but I never felt like Persona 4 or Dark Souls would be better if my character was voiced. On the contrary.

 

[Xavillin]

In FE3H, it's ducking dumb. Why give Byleth a voice, but only record so few? At least in Fates, Corrin only had like a word or two and the rest were grunts.

Same with Persona. You let Makoto, Yu, and Ren yell out the name of every 50+ Persona, so why not just let them speak all dialogue options too?

 

[jph139]

It depends. In older games, and more thorough RPGs, I prefer a silent protagonist - even in games with voice acting (like Dragon Age: Origins) I think a silent protagonist lets you really "play a role" in a way that a voiced one never can.

But I don't care for it in games that aren't willing to make use of it. Like in Three Houses... you barely ever get dialogue options. When you do, you only get two or three. And most of the time, you get pretty similar answers. Like, I remember in one support conversation (I think with Annette?) you have two options: "Would you like some tea?" or "Would you like something sweet?" But either way... the next scene she has both tea and sweets. Like, why did you give me the option? Why does it matter?

Byleth has less flexibility as a character than voiced RPG protagonists usually do. I don't understand the logic behind him/her being a silent protagonist instead of just an unusually stoic one.

 

[Flame Lord]

I like them, and there are so few of them I can never understand people who express such rage at the few they have to deal with. There are so many bland, boring, and annoying protagonists out there that I don't mind a self-insert every now and again.

 

[Derkon]

It can stand out, see Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

 

[Pyro]

I wish there was an option for "Sometimes". It didn't bother me in say, Botw, but it is in Astral Chain because your sibling is voiced and seems to have quite a bit of lines (6 hours in, just did the first real mission).

 

[Massicot]

Edit: I misunderstood the premise of the thread, ignore.

 

[super moustique]

Nope.

It's all about what the devs wanna do with their game(s).

 

[Undeniablybiased]

Counterpoint: Fallout 4 vs every single Fallout RPG before it

Click to shrink...

There's a difference between a silent protagonist and not hiring voice actors. The protagonists in older fallout games still talk don't they? There's just no voice acting.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

There's a difference between a silent protagonist and not hiring voice actors. The protagonists in older fallout games still talk don't they? There's just no voice acting.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I posted that and then realized a little later that that doesn't really count.

 

[rickyson33]

there's literally no scenario where I don't hate silent protagonists,it always detracts from the game for me

it's something i'll sometimes tolerate and do my best to ignore if I like the games other aspects enough but it's always a negative for me(for example I played three houses recently and still enjoyed it because I enjoy fire emblem games but I would have enjoyed it more without it,conversely I tried to play dragon quest XI when it came out on steam and bounced off of it less than 10 hours in with the silent protagonist being a big part of the reason why)

that whole self insert thing adds nothing for me and usually it just makes the protagonist feel like they aren't even a character

 

[Euler.L.]

They add to it.
A silent protagonist will never say something contrary to the player's thoughts.

Click to shrink...

That argument never made sense. How can someone like Link who will do whatever other people want from him and have like no chemistry with anyone, add anything.

 

[JoeInky]

No, but then I'm one of those weirdos who would be fine with no voice acting.

 

[Shin Kojima]

That argument never made sense. How can someone like Link who will do whatever other people want from him and have like no chemistry with anyone, add anything.

Click to shrink...

Perhaps it makes sense to people other than you. Why do you think developers choose to do it so often? Clearly, many people prefer it.

 

[show me your skeleton]

fire emblem's dumb because the main character does have a voice and says a few things in battle etc. so yeah, feels weird outside of that situation.

 

[Stiler]

In this day and age, Yes, especially when the other characters talk/have a voice.

Also it especially sucks when it comes to games like Zelda, where you KNOW that Nintendo could EASILY afford to have a decent voice cast to do the dialogue but they choose not to.

Hearing your character talk is just more immersive to me, especially when you are the one that controls what they say and such. This doesn't mean you CAN'T have character customization either, just look at Mass effect and Dragon Age: Inquisition.

 

[Strings]

Not if they're done well (I don't think either of these are).

 

[RelaxItsJustMe]

Not once has it ever increased my enjoyment of a game. So yeah it's definitely a downside for me. And yeah as people have said in this thread, the absolute worst is making a silent protagonist and then basically still giving him a personality through either actions or dialogue. Like Joker and Byleth. Joker definitely likes to act smug as we can see from when he escapes in the intro with a smug smile and the like. As well as Byleth having a pretty serious and caring personality from his combat lines "I'll use this power for the greater good.", "We must all do our part."

 

[vestan]

Whew

I think silent protagonists can be done pretty well if they are their own established character and have a semblance of a personality (Corvo in the original Dishonored and Joker from Persona 5 stand out) but blank slates like Byleth from Three Houses and Howard from Astral Chain that are just *there* I'm not really a fan of. Most times I'd rather the protagonist has their own dialogue (written or otherwise) as I feel it's a lot easier to get a grasp of their personality that way and it helps bring me into their struggle and experience more.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Yes but if the alternative is canned lines like in Remnant From the Ashes then absolutely do not do that

 

[Gparan]

Unless it's an RPG where you can control a lot of things the character is saying its a bad thing. DQ 11 is another recent example where I feel that it ruined several "emotional" moments.

 

[SiG]

Not at all. And in the latter case with Astral Chain, it actually take on a very interesting form where the sibling acts as the "main protagonist which the Director had in mind" mouthpiece but at the same time it also falls to you with how you want to take your chracter.

That, and as long as gameplay is top-notch, I don't find it pulling me out at all.

 

[Pineapple]

I greatly dislike it. I don't want the character to be a "husk" so I can self inserted myself into the game. I'm myself every single day of my life, I want to experience different lines of thought. I like it when characters have their own thoughts, goals, and fears. It makes certain moments of the game so much fun. Like if the character I'm playing as has a fear of swimming in large pools of water, whenever I get near any large amount of water I get nervous. But if they never stated that fear and I encounter that in the game it would just be " oh there's some water here...whatever" type of feeling.

 

[Village]

I have a rule
can i customize the protagonist
Yes? I dont mind mostly silence
No? Give em character

 

[ISOM]

In a narrative heavy game yes it does, but in a game that lack that then not really.

 

[Deleted member 3758]

.

 

[Luigi87]

Definitely can detract depending how it's done.

It bugged the hell out of me in FE3H.

Meanwhile (at least starting with Heavensward) FFXIV's silent protagonist is very well done due to way the player character conveys themself during cutscenes.