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Deleted member 13148

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,188
But alerting a cyclist they are breaking the law and causing traffic to back up behind them in an area where the cyclist has no right to do so IS a safety issue.
It's not illegal, and it's not a safety issue. You are the one breaking the law.

I would be more than happy to do so when it is safe and legal. That does not remove the fact that cyclists have to obey traffic laws too and in my area that often means they are not allowed to slow traffic and that they must ride to the right when possible and safe.
You legally already have to go into oncoming traffic to pass them. Cyclists can take the lane on roads where drivers, such as yourself, tend to not give proper clearance when they are driving dangerously and illegally.
 

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,390
Clemson, SC
So because it's annoying to you we should just avoid roads we're allowed to use?

Do y'all not see the irrationality in some of your arguments

I didn't say that.

If you're holding up a car, or multiple cars, on a 45-55mph road, pull over for a second. I'm not a jerk, so if I'm on a bike, that's exactly what I would do. I've seen everything from some cyclists, to mopeds, to tractors pull over or into a driveway JUST to let a line of cars by them. Those are good people.

The situation I described isn't some city street where everyone is going 0-25mph. I'm talking specifically about the groups I encounter that just ride bunched up and don't care that they're slowing everyone down. Sometimes it's even worse when they're spread out...then I have to try and pass like 10 times in a 5 mile stretch.

It's a very specific thing I've encountered on my route home for a solid 10+ years. (worked here for over 15 years now)
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
It's not illegal, and it's not a safety issue. You are the one breaking the law.

Wrong. It is against the law in this area for a cyclist to fail to ride to the far right when they are legally required to do so. Proof of that has already been posted.


You legally already have to go into oncoming traffic to pass them. Cyclists can take the lane on roads where drivers, such as yourself, tend to not give proper clearance when they are driving dangerously and illegally.

Cyclists can indeed take the lane when it is not safe or practical to ride on the far right. However, in this area there are many places where they are required to ride on the far right when they can or use a pulloff to let traffic behind them pass. Kind of silly for you to argue against that when more than one source was posted confirming this.
 

Deleted member 13148

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,188
Wrong. It is against the law in this area for a cyclist to fail to ride to the far right when they are legally required to do so. Proof of that has already been posted.
They can take the lane if the situation requires it. You've already stated the lanes are narrow, meaning they have a legal right do take the lane. Even if they can't legally take the lane, it would still be illegal to honk at them, since it's not an immediate safety issue.

Cyclists can indeed take the lane when it is not safe or practical to ride on the far right. However, in this area there are many places where they are required to ride on the far right when they can or use a pulloff to let traffic behind them pass. Kind of silly for you to argue against that when more than one source was posted confirming this.
If the roads are too narrow to ride on the right, then they can take the lane legally. Why does it matter if they're to the right anyway? You have to move into oncoming traffic to pass them legally anyway.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
Ahhh....we have finally reached the stage where people post YouTube videos about bad cyclists.

Wonderful.
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
They can take the lane if the situation requires it. You've already stated the lanes are narrow, meaning they have a legal right do take the lane. Even if they can't legally take the lane, it would still be illegal to honk at them, since it's not an immediate safety issue.

It is legal and appropriate in this area to alert someone when they are breaking the law and causing a safety issue. Even with the horn.

If the roads are too narrow to ride on the right, then they can take the lane legally.

This part is not in dispute. It is when they can ride to the right and refuse to do so that causes problems.

Why does it matter if they're to the right anyway? You have to move into oncoming traffic to pass them legally anyway.

Because the law here requires them to. And it makes it easier for us to maintain a safe distance between us and them.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
Seriously, it's the worst. People even get startled when I use the bell behind them and they suddenly jump to one side and stop walking (if they react...). So apparently no one should be on the road.
If you are on a sidewalk when using the bell and people jump, that is because people are not expecting bikes on a sidewalk. A shared-path is a different story.
 

Wolfapo

Member
Dec 27, 2017
536
If you are on a sidewalk when using the bell and people jump, that is because people are not expecting bikes on a sidewalk. A shared-path is a different story.
Never cycle on the sidewalk. It's usually a shared space for bikes and pedestrians and some groups manage to block the whole lane walking side by side (5-6 people)
 

Brakke

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,798
Every cyclist is saving like a hundred lives by not driving, they get a lot of leeway as far as I'm concerned.
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
This is such a counter productive and unnecessary thing to post. Although honestly anything at this point is unnecessary. The thread is just rehashing old arguments.

Do you feel there are any incidents on that video that could have been avoided had the cyclists simply obeyed traffic laws or just watched where they were going?
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,675
Because the law here requires them to. And it makes it easier for us to maintain a safe distance between us and them.
You realise that what you posted disagrees with that right? The legal text you posted stated they're only required to do that when the lane is wide enough to allow safe passing. You said yourself that the lanes are narrow... so I'm guessing you don't have the requisite 1.5 meters between them and the lane edge. Therefore, they're in the right by taking an appropriate (and safe) position in the lane.

The law says that people who ride bikes must ride as close to the right side of the road as practicable except under the following conditions: when passing, preparing for a left turn, avoiding hazards, if the lane is too narrow to share

For someone obsessed with the legal aspect of all of this, you seem to be struggling to actually understand it.
 

Merv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,456
Do you feel there are any incidents on that video that could have been avoided had the cyclists simply obeyed traffic laws or just watched where they were going?

What does it prove? That there are bad cyclist? Congratulations you broke the code. We were all blind to the fact that there were shitty cyclists until you posted a You Tube video. Should we post bad driver videos and bad motor cyclist videos and compare? You didn't even bother to post any text to accompany the video that may have bore fruitful discussion.
 
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EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
You realise that what you posted disagrees with that right? The legal text you posted stated they're only required to do that when the lane is wide enough to allow safe passing. You said yourself that the lanes are narrow... so I'm guessing you don't have the requisite 1.5 meters between them and the lane edge. Therefore, they're in the right by taking an appropriate (and safe) position in the lane.

I think you are perfectly capable of distinguishing between me relating one particular incident and later talking generally about what the law requires them to do. I have never advocated that a cyclist pull over when it is not safe or not feasible to do so.

For someone obsessed with the legal aspect of all of this, you seem to be struggling to actually understand it.

No, it is simply that you have an agenda and are trying to take two different posts and mash them together in order to feel like you caught me at something.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
No, it is simply that you have an agenda and are trying to take two different posts and mash them together in order to feel like you caught me at something.
Just stop honking at cyclists when they are doing nothing wrong. They know you are there and will pull over if they feel like they can safely.
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
What does it prove? That there are bad cyclist? Congratulations you broke the code. We were all blind to the fact that there were shitty cyclists until you posted a You Tube video. Should we post bad driver videos and bad motor cyclist videos and compare? You didn't even bother to post an text to accompany the video that may have bore fruitful discussion.

You are absolutely free to post bad driver videos if you wish. The thing is, nobody denies that there are bad motorists. However, in this very thread we have seen people advocate that cyclists break the law and question if it is bad if when a cyclist does indeed break the law.
 

Deleted member 13148

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,188
There's not enough room on the roads to safely share the lane, therefore the cyclists can legally take the lane. Unless you're now changing your story, and saying the lanes are actually ridiculously wide, then the cyclists are not doing anything wrong.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,675
I think you are perfectly capable of distinguishing between me relating one particular incident and later talking generally about what the law requires them to do. I have never advocated that a cyclist pull over when it is not safe or not feasible to do so.
You literally wanted them out of your way on those roads in particular. There's nothing to distinguish. As for having an agenda... possibly. I refuse to cycle on the roads in the UK because of people like you.

Frankly that you posted that video speaks volumes, and it's probably best that any genuine posters here don't waste their time with you.
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
But I do not honk at them when they are not doing anything wrong. I have stated in this very thread that I can understand when it is not safe or feasible for them to do so.
They are the ones riding and will usually know better when it is safe for them to get over, more than when a car behind them does. There is loads of shit on the side of roads (both wide and narrow) that I would not pull my bike over on.
 

Merv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,456
You are absolutely free to post bad driver videos if you wish. The thing is, nobody denies that there are bad motorists. However, in this very thread we have seen people advocate that cyclists break the law and question if it is bad if when a cyclist does indeed break the law.

Bullshit. You posted that video sans any text. If you just drop a video it has to be taken at face value and the title of the video is idiot cyclists. If the video is directed at somebody or is part of a bigger conversation use quotes or add text to the post.
 

devilhawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,536
I'm in Seattle where cyclists are prevalent. I do not mind sharing the road as a driver and passing when I can. The cyclists here are pretty good about staying to the right when possible and allowing drivers to pass more easily.

However, the cyclists here suck at stopping at intersections and crosswalks. I see cyclists run red lights daily - including through an extremely dangerous intersection where cars on the side street are approaching the intersection either coming up or down a hill and the corners have shrubbery and trees. I see near collisions with pedestrians and bikes almost weekly there. Seen a few people hit too. All because cyclists refuse to stop at the light.
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
You literally wanted them out of your way on those roads in particular. There's nothing to distinguish. As for having an agenda... possibly. I refuse to cycle on the roads in the UK because of people like you.

Frankly that you posted that video speaks volumes, and it's probably best that any genuine posters here don't waste their time with you.

Again, you are taking one anecdote and attempting to mash it with another post where I was noting traffic laws in general. I never wanted a cyclist to do anything that was unsafe or illegal. I think you got carried away with an image in your head. I also enjoy your sly attempt to imply that I am not a genuine poster. You are of course free to not spend any more time replaying to me.
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
They are the ones riding and will usually know better when it is safe for them to get over, more than when a car behind them does. There is loads of shit on the side of roads (both wide and narrow) that I would not pull my bike over on.

Again, that is not the issue. When they have ample opportunity to follow the law and refuse to do so is when the issue begins. Can we agree that both motorists and cyclists should obey their local laws?
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
Bullshit. You posted that video sans any text. If you just drop a video it has to be taken at face value and the title of the video is idiot cyclists. If the video is directed at somebody or is part of a bigger conversation use quotes or add text to the post.

The title of the video is "idiot cyclists". Are you saying there are no idiot cyclists in that video? Having watched it, I feel that there are at least a few idiot cyclists in that video. If you want to post a video titled "idiot motorists" then I will likely agree that there are idiot motorists in it after I have watched it.
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
Yes.

But stop using your horn like Judge Dredd.

I have no idea how Judge Dredd uses his horn but I am assuming he does not lightly tap it. If he does indeed lightly tap his horn then feel free to correct me.

Be that as it may, if everyone - motorists and cyclists alike - would simply obey their local traffic laws then I feel a lot of friction between the two would lessen.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,650
San Francisco
I work in San Francisco-where cyclists want to be treated as both vehicles and pedestrians on a minute by minute basis subject to change.

I avoid the wiggle because it's even worse when they ride in packs and don't obey traffic rules. I can't even tell you how many close calls I've had on 14th due to cyclist blowing through stop signs on Sanchez and Noe without stopping.

It's why rainy days are the best in the city now.
 

Merv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,456
The title of the video is "idiot cyclists". Are you saying there are no idiot cyclists in that video? Having watched it, I feel that there are at least a few idiot cyclists in that video. If you want to post a video titled "idiot motorists" then I will likely agree that there are idiot motorists in it after I have watched it.

So you are just dodging my point then. Noone said there aren't idiot cyclists. You just want to antogonize people without adding context.

Which is why I said it was counter productive and unnecessary.
 

phazedplasma

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,855
Nothing makes me feel better than taking an entire lane as a cyclist. Its my right. Use that horn all you want.
 

Deleted member 13148

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,188
Again, that is not the issue. When they have ample opportunity to follow the law and refuse to do so is when the issue begins. Can we agree that both motorists and cyclists should obey their local laws?
And again, the cyclists that take the lane aren't breaking the law. Almost all roads in California are either 12 feet wide or narrower, which isn't enough space to legally share the lane, meaning cyclists can and should take the lane on pretty much any road. Otherwise you'd have to deal with lots of shitty drivers trying to pass without giving enough space.
 

Wolfapo

Member
Dec 27, 2017
536

Interesting to see that just pop up in my YT feed. Fitting.

I have no idea how Judge Dredd uses his horn but I am assuming he does not lightly tap it. If he does indeed lightly tap his horn then feel free to correct me.

Be that as it may, if everyone - motorists and cyclists alike - would simply obey their local traffic laws then I feel a lot of friction between the two would lessen.
I think the problem is that your way of notifying other road user is not appropriate. Even if someone breaks the law (taking the lane is not breaking the law), honking at them will not fix that, rather it might increase the risk of an accident. Seriously, there are gradients of how bad something is and it's usually not black and white and you should not decide who is in the wrong.
 

EdgeXL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
California
And again, the cyclists that take the lane aren't breaking the law. Almost all roads in California are either 12 feet wide or narrower, which isn't enough space to legally share the lane, meaning cyclists can and should take the lane on pretty much any road. Otherwise you'd have to deal with lots of shitty drivers trying to pass without giving enough space.

There are plenty of instances here when refusing to ride on the right is illegal.
 

AlwaysSalty

The Fallen
Nov 12, 2017
1,442
I do not how it is everywhere else but in California a bicycle is considered a vehicle and they have to yield to pedestrians. I have no doubt that you are a class act on your bike but it is dangerous when someone else does not understand that concept. There was one time when I was walking on the sidewalk along an overpass. A young woman on a bike was coming from the other direction and there was not enough room for both of us. She said, "excuuuuuuuse me" in the snottiest, most condescending tone possible. It never even crossed her mind that she was supposed to get out of the way until I pointed it out to her.

I happen to live in a university town which promotes cycling. We even have a wildflower event every April that draws people from all over the country so it is possible my area has a higher than average number of issues involving cyclists. Still, I would argue an 18 year old (the age when most Americans begin university) can grasp the concept that a bike is a vehicle and the rider must obey vehicle laws.

Finally, I question anyone's ability to safely operate a bike on a sidewalk with dozens of people scattered about.
I totally get it, on the rare instances I have to use it I'll make sure nobody is on there and if there is I come to a full stop and let them pass. Last time I did that I was waiting for a little old lady to walk pass me an she did the jump scare thing. I was like wtf. At the same time I've seen asshole cyclists too. My cousin would make fun of me for stopping at red lights. All I could do was smh at him.
 

Deleted member 23381

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,029
Try being scared shitless on the side of a fast moving road and having a loud ass horn suddenly blown in your ear. It's worse than you think.


Vehicles honk all the time for little to no reason, especially in a city, anyone who can't deal with it shouldn't be driving or riding on the road.

Seriously, it's the worst. People even get startled when I use the bell behind them and they suddenly jump to one side and stop walking (if they react...). So apparently no one should be on the road.

If someone is crossing the road with that little awareness then no they shouldn't be on the road.