Diversity must not lead to conflict, according to CD Projekt Red studio head [PCGamer] (New Translation in Threadmarks)

[crimilde]

Every time I see some news out of this company lately I'm less and less inclined to buy Cyberpunk.

The gender tied to your tone of voice stuff was already awful stuff, and now this.

They basically solidified my decision to skip on the game. This is bad.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

Cause there's a lot of them. And a lot of people who don't care about these issues enough to not buy the game because of this.

The amount of people that will not buy the game because of this is smaller than the amount of sales they would lose if they were more openly tolerant. This has probably already been factored in. Minorities and the people that are unwilling to buy games that disrespect them are literally worth less to them than the opposite. It's just a business decission.

Their pre-existing intolerant views probably help this situation, tho.

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Guess I'm in the minority that feel this looks horrible and I don't need to play their game. Thankfully I can't even finish the games I own and love so it won't hurt me, also I was going to put up with CP2077 being first person but after so many bad press from CPR I don't even have to try.

As for GOG I should get out while I'm not that attached and try Playnite to take the place of GOG Galaxy 2. If CP2077 is so amazing and people can't shut up about it, I'll get it when it's Witcher 3 Wild Hunt pack sale cheap during a EGS sale making it $10 years from now.

That said, I'm surprised they stooped down low enough (in some of their minds) to work with Mike Pondsmith for Cyberpunk 2077, or is he one of the good diversities?

 

[TheZynster]

I'm not so sure I want to do the giveaway anymore...........I feel even bad for reaching out to CDPR.........

 

[Tovarisc]

Yup by no means should this be taken as vindication for "muh ethics in garmes jurnalism" people, it's 100% on CDP.

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Out of curiosity asked Polish gaming friend about that sentence and how he would translate it. His take on the end is that "doesn't lead to conflict" would reflect intent.

He also had read article himself and said TLDR as "CDPR fully supports diversity, LGBT etc." for it without me asking. Also supposedly reception of the article has been very mixed in the community.

Doesn't mean they aren't pandering and doing what is expected when it comes to messaging about these issues, getting read on CDPR's true and firm stand on these values is murky at best with all mixed behavior.

 

[SubvertedTrope]

Is this going to be right wing cyberpunk? lol can't wait to see that.

 

[Skittles]

CP2077 is going to be nothing more than a "WOAH, cool colors!" take on cyberpunk, just like I initially thought when it was revealed. Trash company

 

[Re6alSA]

Is there any chance for some moderation here? Him saying "we don't want conflict" doesn't need to mean the same thing as "We welcome Nazis and racists and btw Hitler was a cool guy too", right???

As someone who works in an office environment myself, I can understand "don't want conflict" in a more nuanced way. You can be surrounded by the purest, most non-racist and non-bigoted people in world history, if they are constantly arguing and causing fights with each other which spills into the environment, I would prefer a "conflict-free" environment too.

I'm just trying to say "we don't want conflict" and "i am a horrible racist would who loves hiring bad people" aren't synonyms.

But people here are speaking as if CDPR has had other issues come up in the past, and I am not aware of previous news so I may be missing something.

 

[Misterhbk]

Ahhh damn. I was starting to get on the hype train for this as someone who typically doesn't enjoy first person games. Probably just gonna skip it at this point.

Game still gonna sell like fucking crazy though. No matter what anyone in this thread says.

 

[lukeskymac]

Is this going to be right wing cyberpunk? lol can't wait to see that.

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More like centrist cyberpunk. Which might be even more ridiculous.

 

[Darryl M R]

Is there any chance for some moderation here? Him saying "we don't want conflict" doesn't need to mean the same thing as "We welcome Nazis and racists and btw Hitler was a cool guy too", right???

As someone who works in an office environment myself, I can understand "don't want conflict" in a more nuanced way. You can be surrounded by the purest, most non-racist and non-bigoted people in world history, if they are constantly arguing and causing fights with each other which spills into the environment, I would prefer a "conflict-free" environment too.

I'm just trying to say "we don't want conflict" and "i am a horrible racist would who loves hiring bad people" aren't synonyms.

But people here are speaking as if CDPR has had other issues come up in the past, and I am not aware of previous news so I may be missing something.

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As a black person who works in an office environment, get bent if you care more about keeping the status quo.

Boi.

 

[Bish_Bosch]

Is there any chance for some moderation here? Him saying "we don't want conflict" doesn't need to mean the same thing as "We welcome Nazis and racists and btw Hitler was a cool guy too", right???

As someone who works in an office environment myself, I can understand "don't want conflict" in a more nuanced way. You can be surrounded by the purest, most non-racist and non-bigoted people in world history, if they are constantly arguing and causing fights with each other which spills into the environment, I would prefer a "conflict-free" environment too.

I'm just trying to say "we don't want conflict" and "i am a horrible racist would who loves hiring bad people" aren't synonyms.

But people here are speaking as if CDPR has had other issues come up in the past, and I am not aware of previous news so I may be missing something.

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I mean the status quo is just conflict directed at minority communities in most countries so this isn't equivalent to just not wanting to hear arguments.

 

[Kinthey]

Out of curiosity asked Polish gaming friend about that sentence and how he would translate it. His take on the end is that "doesn't lead to conflict" would reflect intent.

He also had read article himself and said TLDR as "CDPR fully supports diversity, LGBT etc." for it without me asking. Also supposedly reception of the article has been very mixed in the community.

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The new translations was probably the original intention. Maybe the thread title should be updated?

I mean in another paragraph he outright talks about overcoming the status quo

What is more, there is strong correlation between openness to "the other" and its effect on creativity and motivation. In my opinion this results mainly from an increased feeling of security. In an environment where you can simply be yourself it becomes easier to have frank discussions, share ideas and express opinions — and that provides a starting point for many interesting activities.

The status quo is overcome through bold action.

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[Bish_Bosch]

More like centrist cyberpunk. Which might be even more ridiculous.

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Fight the monolithic corporate power by proposing tax rebates.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Bigotry signaling

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Yeah, I'm done with these guys. Tw3 sucked anyway, so it's not a huge loss.

 

[Technesis]

What a shame.

 

[Gestault]

That idea in the thread title about "avoiding conflict" (assuming it 's an accurate paraphrase) is at odds with the lessons of all of human history, unless they're consciously saying they support oppression. There's almost no other way to read that; They're not stupid. The concept behind the game they're making sure as fuck *should* be saying otherwise, thematically.

 

[Deleted member 8593]

Yeah, I was all in on CP once I found out it was basically Deus Ex by the Witcher guys but between the voice stuff, this and their history of transgressions, it's just too much. I can play other things.

Is there any chance for some moderation here?

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Hope you got your answer, hun.

 

[NoKisum]

Cyberpunk is looking less and less appealing by the day.

 

[Azzanadra]

I didn't agree with this take at the time, but yeah...its looking to be right on the money.

 

[Tovarisc]

That idea in the thread title about "avoiding conflict" (assuming it 's an accurate paraphrase) is at odds with the lessons of all of human history, unless they're consciously saying they support oppression. There's almost no other way to read that; They're not stupid. The concept behind the game they're making sure as fuck *should* be saying otherwise, thematically.

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They revised translation after PC Gamer article came out. It now states that diversity doesn't lead to conflict.

What is it worth my Polish gaming friend translated it like that too when I asked about that sentence and how he would put it into English.

 

[Wracu]

Getting ever harder for their defenders to keep up the charade. The evidence that CDPR is run by total trash is getting pretty overwhelming.

 

[Ashes of Dreams]

Honestly, these quotes sound to me like "we sort of stand for tolerance as window dressing because it makes more talented people apply at our place. If we say offensive stuff, LGBT folks might quit their job but we want to make them work harder by creating the illusion of inclusiveness." At no point he said they stand for tolerance or diversity because it's the most natural, decent or human thing to do. It doesn't really seem sincere to me.

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Because that was the question being asked. The question was specifically about how supporting LGBT voices in the work place impact their products.

Not that it's impossible he's insincere, but I also think there has been a lot of people in this thread reacting to something he kind of just didn't say. Sincerity is a whole other topic worth discussing, but bypassing that discussion by claiming he was saying something he clearly wasn't is a bad call imo. And the people then following afterwards to say "see! I knew they were trash! and the games are bad too!" are not helping either. I really feel like very few people read the actual interview here.

Also I was out, it sounds like they did update the translation for that one line? I did think it was strange, because it was the odd line out when he was also saying things like "The status quo is overcome through bold action"

 

[Midgarian]

I didn't agree with this take at the time, but yeah...its looking to be right on the money.

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I remember feeling like it when they showed the gameplay demo in August that year.

 

[Acido]

Real, impactful, significative change always leads to conflict.

 

[Muad'dib]

So maybe the thread should be updated with the revised translation from Polish since it changes the whole meaning?

I don't see a problem with the new translation if its accurate, don't know Polish.

 

[Azzanadra]

It felt like this since the initial 2018 Summer gameplay demo.

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I was willing to give them a chance, thought maybe they're only showing specific slices of the game to appeal to a more mainstream crowd.

But as time has gone on, it does feel like CDPR is only engaging with Cyberpunk at like a purely surface-level, aesthetic level.

The new Deus Ex games have had their share of missteps (Mankind Divided especially) but they did try to engage with some of Cyberpunk's themes, to varying degrees of success.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Nothing more Punk than avoiding conflict at all costs...

 

[Gold Arsene]

Is this going to be right wing cyberpunk? lol can't wait to see that.

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I don't think right wing Cyberpunk would let you be gay.

 

[rras1994]

Because that was the question being asked. The question was specifically about how supporting LGBT voices in the work place impact their products.

Not that it's impossible he's insincere, but I also think there has been a lot of people in this thread reacting to something he kind of just didn't say. Sincerity is a whole other topic worth discussing, but bypassing that discussion by claiming he was saying something he clearly wasn't is a bad call imo. And the people then following afterwards to say "see! I knew they were trash! and the games are bad too!" are not helping either. I really feel like very few people read the actual interview here.

Also I was out, it sounds like they did update the translation for that one line? I did think it was strange, because it was the odd line out when he was also saying things like "The status quo is overcome through bold action"

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He also implied that sexism isn't an issue in the gaming industry just after the amount of MeToo revelations in the game industry and that's not a translation issue. And that kind of attitude supports the original translation as well, as does the multiple other transphobic stuff CDPR in the past, and they haven't exactly featured minorities, especially LGBT or PoC (of which there is barely any) well in any of their past games

 

[Midgarian]

I was willing to give them a chance, thought maybe they're only showing specific slices of the game to appeal to a more mainstream crowd.

But as time has gone on, it does feel like CDPR is only engaging with Cyberpunk at like a purely surface-level, aesthetic level.

The new Deus Ex games have had their share of missteps (Mankind Divided especially) but they did try to engage with some of Cyberpunk's themes, to varying degrees of success.

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What sucked for me is how the dialogue in the recent reveals is exactly the same cringe from 2018. I held hope in my heart they would change it up.

Remember the initial CGI teaser from 2013 was it? The vibes and possibilities that gave off. Phew.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

I'm just trying to say "we don't want conflict" and "i am a horrible racist would who loves hiring bad people" aren't synonyms.

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c'mon, you have to know this is a ridiculous framing of what people are taking from the interview. even with the absolute most charitable reading, this is simply the same old noncommittal corporate prose we've seen a million times before. posting criticism on this very small platform and opting out of purchasing a video game aren't overreactions.

 

[Deleted member 56803]

I don't think right wing Cyberpunk would let you be gay.

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[SubvertedTrope]

I don't think right wing Cyberpunk would let you be gay.

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It would if it could use it to make a point of how it's "a choice" and a bad one at that. Their depiction of a gay man in TW3 was pretty fucking terrible and likely reflects their views.

The Witcher 3 has a character named Mislav. Mislav is a woodland recluse who has tucked himself far away from civilisation. With some pushing, Mislav will reveal that he had a romantic relationship with the lord's son, Florian. After their relationship had been discovered, Florian committed suicide, resulting in the Lord becoming an alcoholic and the estate he ran falling into disrepair. So many people's lives were ruined only because two men loved each other, and Mislav had to run away and live unhappily in the woods for the rest of his life.

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From:

Why gaming's gay male representation needs to change

In the last few years, games have become increasingly diverse in the characters they show and the stories they tell.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[crimilde]

I didn't agree with this take at the time, but yeah...its looking to be right on the money.

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Man if even the dad of cyberpunk says that...

Tbh the latest trailer totally felt like this to me too.

 

[Muad'dib]

The revised translation:

"The key takeaway is that diversity — which Adam talked about previously — and the differing sensitivities and outlooks which result from it, are not leading to conflict. "

Can someone get the original Polish and compare?

 

[beelulzebub]

I didn't agree with this take at the time, but yeah...its looking to be right on the money.

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Yeah, proving to be more and more prophetic with every passing day.

 

[Raigor]

Man if even the dad of cyberpunk says that...

Tbh the latest trailer totally felt like this to me too.

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You should be worried if Pondsmith is saying this since this game is based on his take on the Cyberpunk genre.

 

[Aaronrules380]

THese types of quotes always remind me of the MLK quote about the preference for a negative peace which is the abscence of conflict, over a positive peace which is the presence of conflict.

In other words they always come off as treating conflict like an inherently evil thing that must be avoided at all costs, and as something that is inherently worse than injustice ingrained within society

 

[piratethingy]

c'mon, you have to know this is a ridiculous framing of what people are taking from the interview. even with the absolute most charitable reading, this is simply the same old noncommittal corporate prose we've seen a million times before. posting criticism on this very small platform and opting out of purchasing a video game aren't overreactions.

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It seems disingenuous to imply that there's no way it could be read that way when we're going off very specific inferences that could very well be down to translation. I almost posted that on the first page but didn't feel like getting dogpiled for being a corporate bootlicking bigot apologist (who isn't even going to buy this game)

 

['3y Kingdom]

The revised translation:

"The key takeaway is that diversity — which Adam talked about previously — and the differing sensitivities and outlooks which result from it, are not leading to conflict. "

Can someone get the original Polish and compare?

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The original Polish is

Najważniejsze jest to, że różnorodność, o której mówił wcześniej Adam, i wynikające z niej różne wrażliwości i postrzeganie świata, nie prowadzą do konfliktu

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the end being the key part here. It translates as "...do not lead to conflict."

 

[SpokkX]

Still - how many here will not play Cyberpunk (if the genre interests you)?

Somebody? Anybody?

i will play it

 

[CaptainK]

Ugh those quotes just re-affirm why people are reluctant to raise issue with bullying and harassment in the workplace. Bosses like Kicinski and Badowski would just see the minority person as the source of conflict, while asking that we tolerate the bigots. Same 'ol story.

 

[Kinsei]

Still - how many here will not play Cyberpunk (if the genre interests you)?

Somebody? Anybody?

i will play it

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The bigotry of CDPR is woven into the fabric of the game. For most stuff people can argue that they're separating the art from the artist but in this case that's impossible. As such anyone that knows about these issues and still decides to get the game in spite of them is a piece of shit.

 

[AnnoyinSwami]

If anyone uses GOG as their main storefront for PC games and doesn't want to keep supporting CD Project please consider buying indie games from Itch instead. The games are all DRM free like GOG but the devs also get more revenue from a purchase there too.

 

[Hilarious_Bearious]

Nothing more Punk than avoiding conflict at all costs...

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Hey, I grew up listening to The Clash classics like "I Obeyed the Law", "Forgo Your Rights" and "Respect the Casbah"....

 

[beelulzebub]

Still - how many here will not play Cyberpunk (if the genre interests you)?

Somebody? Anybody?

i will play it

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Nah dog I'm sitting this one out. Back when CDPR made their transphobic tweets, I closed my GOG account and let them know why. If they had demonstrated that they had major inroads to change their corporate culture, then maybe I could have been enticed, but that didn't happen so I'm pretty goddamned resolute on this one.

 

[SpokkX]

The bigotry of CDPR is woven into the fabric of the game. For most stuff people can argue that they're separating the art from the artist but in this case that's impossible. As such anyone that knows about these issues and still decides to get the game in spite of them is a piece of shit.

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you make a good argument.. but that finish - lol
dogmatic much?

 

[Muad'dib]

The original Polish is

the end being the key part here. It translates as "...do not lead to conflict."

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Hopefully PC Gamer updates their article then.

The bigotry of CDPR is woven into the fabric of the game. For most stuff people can argue that they're separating the art from the artist but in this case that's impossible. As such anyone that knows about these issues and still decides to get the game in spite of them is a piece of shit.

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Thanks for the blanket statement.

 

[Razmos]

Still - how many here will not play Cyberpunk (if the genre interests you)?

Somebody? Anybody?

i will play it

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Good for you?

 

[Deleted member 15311]

Read my post again I never used the word "ALL" when I first referred to the people working on the game. Perhaps I should have been more clear, but I meant "all the people working on the game who are responsible for how the game is handling gender identity" can go fuck themselves. I'm not saying EVERYONE that's working on Cyberpunk 2077 is transphobic.... but clearly, the ones that have the final say on shit like the gender-locked voices are.

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Oh yeah, i don't argue with that