"Latinx art abounds: I found music I could listen to, books I could read, movies I could watch as I put myself back together to face the world and do my part. Here's what messes me up: I didn't know where to look for that in video games." [...] "but to be Latinx in America is to be ignored. You are perpetually a talking point in someone else's argument: Right-wing hysteria over migrants. Left-wing lust for votes. White opinions about the authenticity of a restaurant. Semi-regular debates over the service industry. Video games are not immune to this deep-seated ignorance. It can fuck you up. Make you want to check out. Why care about a video game industry that doesn't care about me? Or support other people like me?"
As a latinx person I can't help but agree. It's difficult for me to remember the last time I played as an MC that felt like me or someone from my family.Apologies if this has already been posted or shared, but this article was recently published and it feels relevant to this thread:
There's A Latinx Void At The Heart Of Video Games:
If Nintendo keeps up this baby steps thing... well, let me put it this way. I'm 21 years old. Nintendo targets their fanservice both genders to people my age, give or take 5 years. If I have to wait 20 years for these "baby steps", I'll be a 40 year old man right when they finally give equal representation to 20-year-old twinks that I will no longer be sexually interested in (well, unless they make the dad type units gay too). It is literally pointless for me to wait for representation from Fire Emblem in the future because I won't want it in the future. In 20 years using this awful "baby steps" idea, I will be too old to even remotely be pleasured by characters like Lindhart. So I need gay representation NOW. I'll settle for "within five years", but that is the absolute maximum time I am willing to wait for Nintendo to get it together.
I. Fucking. Want. My. Queer. Young. Adults. In. Nintendo. Games. Now.
Not in 20 years. Now. Five years tops.
Hell, that applies to you too Squeenix, Bamco, and Atlus. Five years.
Sooo Epic Seven, a gacha game that I'm playing for god knows what reason at this point, finally released a muscular lady, but she's yet another muscular lady with big anime tiddies:Feels like a fuckin' monkey's paw wish. Like, yeah, I've always wanted some representation of ladies with bulk, but the fuckin' anime tiddies (and inappropriately thin neck) completely ruin any positive feelings I might otherwise have had from this inclusion. For some reason this specific instance hit me particularly hard, creating within me what I can only describe as existential angst of the highest degree. There's this crippling fear that the only such representation I'm allowed to have is of the type that's designed to appeal to heterosexual male observers first and foremost; that I am not at all a factor in the creation of these characters; that I am forever doomed to be left out unless I somehow get into the mix myself.
Mostly, there's this extremely raw disappointment that comes as a result of all of the above, plus all the people making creepy remarks over the character and making excuses over her big anime tiddies, as though any such excuses could erase my disappointment.
I'm sure to some folks I do look unreasonably distraught over something entirely unimportant in the grand scheme of things. I wish I could impress upon people just how much it means to me to get some kind of representation. I've literally bought into games purely on the promise that I could make a character that represents me in all my weirdness. I'm beginning to think that character creation may very well be my only solace at this point. It's either that or somehow breaking into the companies that design these characters... hah, wishful thinking, that. if only it were so simple.
It's weird, you know, when I think about it. We have all kinds of female athletes, covering all kinds of different sports and professions. Mixed martial artists, runners, body builders, mountain climbers - all kinds of different reference points artists could take, freely, without even an ounce of effort. But instead what we get is: take exaggerated muscular build, add huge anime tiddies and generic anime face, bam. There's your rep. Literally the ONLY time I've seen a female character where I thought "yeah, they used an actual reference" is The Last of Us 2, and that's not even a reference, that's them literally putting a real person in the game. I mean, it's good that it finally happened, but that being the ONLY time I can think of where this is a thing is just mind-boggling.
I think it makes it extremely clear the mindset of the developers who make these games. They're not interested in women as aspirational figures at all. They're interested in women as decoration. First and foremost, that's their absolute highest priority. It's extremely transparent and I cannot tolerate people continuing to defend this unambiguously sexist bullshit.
It's obvious that the answer is to have more women on dev teams. But even just thinking about the shitshow that is game dev makes it extremely obvious why it's still a problem. Even for myself, with all my passion for the industry... I really have a hard time justifying any attempt to pursue getting into it. The stories that come out of it are simply too horrifying. And yet I want to change it somehow. Vexing.
I don't know what to do at this point. Everything just feels so pointless. Guess I'll pour some of my frustration into this tablet. Probably a damn sight more productive than wasting my time agonizing over things I have no control over.
What's that figure from?I have a question about fantasy worlds - should they feel a moral need to contain equal straight/gay romance or should the creators feel free to do it 90% straight 10% gay like it is IRL?
Huh?I have a question about fantasy worlds - should they feel a moral need to contain equal straight/gay romance or should the creators feel free to do it 90% straight 10% gay like it is IRL?
My boyfriend. Believe me, I'm on the "It should be closer to 50%" side, so I'm not going to try and minimize the percentage or anything. Sorry if I was being insulting.Huh?
You do realize a lot of LGBT are afraid to come out right? So it's a lot more than 10%.
I was debating my boyfriend about how there needed to be more gay relationships, and he said that "it's okay that fantasy worlds like Zelda don't have equal straight/gay relationships/crushes because some developers want to be realistic about the percentage of gay vs. straight people". I'm on the totally opposite side that it should be equal in straightness/gayness since it's an UNrealistic world. I was coming here to see what the general public thought about each side, and whether I was being wrong.Also, kinda binary range, no? Like, the minimum 'need' is simply to consider it - whatever actual result they go for in the end is on them. Some games can have more options, others less, whether that's 50:50, 90:10, 33:67, or 55:45, but it would be nice if they at least had options. People advocate for 'more' right now simply because so often there isn't anything, and certainly by no means such a saturation that they can feel comfortable with any given title not being as accommodating. Especially if you factor in intersectionality as well; even if one had a game with 50:50 straight options to same sex options, how many of those are bi? Non-white? Ratio of lesbians to gay men, and what kinds of partners do they get?
It's not really a matter of what any individual game does - that sort of matter is one of overall industry trends
I was debating my boyfriend about how there needed to be more gay relationships, and he said that "it's okay that fantasy worlds like Zelda don't have equal straight/gay relationships/crushes because some developers want to be realistic about the percentage of gay vs. straight people". I'm on the totally opposite side that it should be equal in straightness/gayness since it's an UNrealistic world. I was coming here to see what the general public thought about each side, and whether I was being wrong.
It should be 100% gay tbh.I have a question about fantasy worlds - should they feel a moral need to contain equal straight/gay romance or should the creators feel free to do it 90% straight 10% gay like it is IRL?
The debate about what percentage of LGBT people should be in games ceases to be relevant when the majority of games are still like 90% white without question despite this reality not lining up with population of most countries where games are developed or take place.
Are we talking about player romance options? Heck, just make every option available to every player, as far as I care, unless you have a clear and specific reason not to. If you don't pursue a particular character in your playthrough, then in the story you created, whether that character was bi or straight or whatever probably never came up anyway. This is all just romantic fantasy, so why put up walls like that? It just makes the game less fun and fulfilling for a lot of people.I have a question about fantasy worlds - should they feel a moral need to contain equal straight/gay romance or should the creators feel free to do it 90% straight 10% gay like it is IRL?
...
I was debating my boyfriend about how there needed to be more gay relationships, and he said that "it's okay that fantasy worlds like Zelda don't have equal straight/gay relationships/crushes because some developers want to be realistic about the percentage of gay vs. straight people". I'm on the totally opposite side that it should be equal in straightness/gayness since it's an UNrealistic world. I was coming here to see what the general public thought about each side, and whether I was being wrong.
I meant to post something back when the thread was first created, but I got sidetracked and forgot. Since the thread seems to be active again, I'll post it now.
I've always really really appreciated having women, people of colour and other minorities in games as it made the game considerably more enjoyable for me, particularly when it's a playable character. 9 times out of 10, if I can play as a woman of colour, I will, being one myself. But there was one instance of representation that hit me the hardest. And this is despite the character being both minor and non-playable.
Samina Ebadji
Samina Ebadji was a member of Project Zero Dawn, serving as the Alpha in charge of the APOLLO subordinate function. As an accomplished specialist in the field of cultural heritage, she dedicated her life to preserving the history of the human species. Prior to the Faro Plague, Ebadji was a...horizonzerodawn.fandom.com
I'd never, ever seen someone like her in any game, or really any media that I can think of. A woman who was both black, and visibly Muslim. Who was incredibly intelligent, respected, kind, gentle, well loved. Just, nothing but positive characteristics and zero stereotypes.
This character just... really hit me hard. I teared up when I saw her, and still do sometimes when I think about her. And despite already being positively impacted by representation earlier in life, it made me realise just how important it was. And I knew for most people playing the game, she wouldn't register on their radar much, if at all. They might not even remember her. But she stood out to me. Because I realised that I never had any kind of role model like her to look up to in the media I consumed while growing up. And I realised how much that would have meant to me then.
Growing up, I'd have people assume that I couldn't speak English just by looking at me. That they should speak to the men around me (e.g. my brothers) instead of myself, because obviously I was subservient and couldn't speak for myself. That I was unintelligent, even when I was doing better than my peers. That I should be predisposed to rowdy behaviour because of my ethnic background, so it was confusing to them that I was well behaved. I'd even hear this kind of thing from teachers, let alone other children. And it's the kind of thing you have to shrug off and try to push past, but can have an insidious effect on your self esteem and self worth over time.
I never expected to see someone like her in a video game, especially in such a positive light, but I appreciate it more than I can say. I had some issues with Horizon gameplay-wise, but the representation is top tier. It's really the best example I can ever think of from a video game. So many great characters. I hope more games look to it as an example.
Thank you for pointing this out and sharing.
The way that Horizon handled black skin and features was really beautiful. I kind of had a moment when the war chief's son was on screen because he actually looked like someone I could have grown up with. I think it may have been one of the first times I really felt like that.
I really should go back and play the DLC.
Yeah, the fact that other characters don't draw attention to it... they're just awesome characters in their own right, while also being women of colour. It's just great.Horizon Zero Dawn was excellent in b that regard. My friend bought it near launch and invited me over to experience it. Hours into the game, in the middle of a conversation with an NPC, I nudged her and was like, "This game has a ton of black women and they get to exist as normal people without any bullshit attached." "Oh shit, you're right."
We stopped playing for a second to admire it. Will never forget that moment lol.
Thank you for pointing this out and sharing.
The way that Horizon handled black skin and features was really beautiful. I kind of had a moment when the war chief's son was on screen because he actually looked like someone I could have grown up with. I think it may have been one of the first times I really felt like that.
I really should go back and play the DLC.
Yeah, the fact that other characters don't draw attention to it... they're just awesome characters in their own right, while also being women of colour. It's just great.
That's awesome. ❤ I just enjoyed all of the diversity, not just characters that were similar to me. And the representation of women in particular was just fantastic.
Do iiiiiit. *peer pressure*Oh absolutely! I don't even remember there being one questionable design and women were just allowed to be characters.
Damnit y'all, have me asking my SO to reinstall :P.
Still wondering.Is there any way for me to express to Nintendo my disappointment that two of the main characters in BOTW had a crush on Link, but they were both women and there wasn't a dude or two to go along with that? It felt rather heteronormative.
I'm asking because I dunno how far just an email would go in getting my feedback heard...
Is there any way for me to express to Nintendo my disappointment that two of the main characters in BOTW had a crush on Link, but they were both women and there wasn't a dude or two to go along with that? It felt rather heteronormative.
I'm asking because I dunno how far just an email would go in getting my feedback heard...
Started playing that yesterday myself and I like Honor a lot so far.It has probably already been mentionned, but Murder by Numbers belongs to this thread ! Main character is a black woman, there are some great gay characters... There is even a whole discussion on gender. It was great to read ! I haven't finished the game yet that I'm already waiting for a sequel. <3
Can't help with that, but Sidon clearly has a crush on Link. Well if internet can be trusted. :P
Good thing is, even with Zelda and whats-her-face-Sheika-girl thirsting on Link, you're not forced to follow a romance path.
That's exactly what I want. Stuff like Sidon being canon like Zelda/Mipha instead of just on the Internet.Can't help with that, but Sidon clearly has a crush on Link. Well if internet can be trusted. :P
Good thing is, even with Zelda and whats-her-face-Sheika-girl thirsting on Link, you're not forced to follow a romance path.
Tekken designer responds to request for a Norse character by complaining about how he can't do that because SJWs are bullying him by criticizing uncreative, stereotypical designs. I can't make this up.
Sorry for linking the last tweet, but if I linked the first one the others weren't accessible, while doing this it can be accessed in reverse.Katsuhiro Harada on Twitter
“I’ve become quite tired of trying to avoid causing potential offense issues. lol https://t.co/YieTaGnM55”twitter.com
Tekken designer responds to request for a Norse character by complaining about how he can't do that because SJWs are bullying him by criticizing uncreative, stereotypical designs. I can't make this up.
Sorry for linking the last tweet, but if I linked the first one the others weren't accessible, while doing this it can be accessed in reverse.Katsuhiro Harada on Twitter
“I’ve become quite tired of trying to avoid causing potential offense issues. lol https://t.co/YieTaGnM55”twitter.com
Fighting games end up in a particularly problematic area I find because of how they've relied heavily on stereotypical coding as a major part of character design from the outset. So it's not only a norm, but for some, it's part of the appeal, even though doing so often forgets the differences in dynamic when it comes to representation and power.
[...] I found these examples to be quite heartwarming. Some of the examples are things I might go by in a game without even giving them a second thought, and yet are quite important for other gamers. And thinking about it now, it is very clear why. And these gamers are not alone. There are so many moments, features or things relating to games being more inclusive that have a positive impact on players but simply aren't discussed enough and so, are in a way lost to those that didn't have a similar experience or relate in a similar fashion. My hope is that by sharing examples in this thread, we can highlight the importance of diversity and inclusion, both to each other and the industry at large. [...]
Fighting games end up in a particularly problematic area I find because of how they've relied heavily on stereotypical coding as a major part of character design from the outset. So it's not only a norm, but for some, it's part of the appeal, even though doing so often forgets the differences in dynamic when it comes to representation and power.