Disney+: The crows are still in Dumbo

[Jesse_and_the_rippers]

Everyone cites that WB message, but Disney has already been doing something like this for years. The Disney Treasures include every short in it's original format - even the horribly racist ones like the Figaro shorts - and some have an unskippable note from Leonard Maltin that explains the context.

 

[Deleted member 1086]

I used to think this was a great quote but the more I think about it the more I feel it only serves to placate people already aware of the problem.

It does nothing to illustrate what the problem is or why it's a problem. Can you really expect a child to read this and then go 'ahh yes, the aforementioned racism' when the crows show up in Dumbo?

If not, you're still exposing children to potentially harmful stereotypes and making a sweet buck while you're at it.

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To be fair all the Looney Tunes sets these disclaimers appeared on were intended for adult collectors, and included on their packaging they weren't suitable for children.

Everyone cites that WB message, but Disney has already been doing something like this for years. The Disney Treasures include every short in it's original format - even the horribly racist ones like the Figaro shorts - and some have an unskippable note from Leonard Maltin that explains the context.

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The thing with those sets though is they weren't mass market items, they were produced in low numbers and even brand new were tough to find. Now that they are out of print they are even harder to find and often go for multiple times what they originally did.

Also for films like Dumbo and Peter Pan I don't think they have ever included any sort of disclaimer for them have they? And those are much more widely available than any of the Disney Treasures sets.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

First, fuck off with your accusation that I want to uphold harmful imagery.

Second, you clearly didn't read the post where I changed my mind.

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You can comfort yourself believing it's not your intent but it's literally what you're arguing for; you do even realize that somewhat in your second post.

I called out your first post because of how fake and placating the notion is that most Americans are ashamed of America's racism, past or present, and that we NEED racist old cartoons streaming unedited on what's going to be one of the most popular platforms with a stupid short white guilt disclaimer so we may "never forget" the past we are oh so ashamed of

like watching Dumbo for entertainment purposes on Disney+ is the education in "our shameful history we need to know to fight against its resurgence"

 

[Jesse_and_the_rippers]

The thing with those sets though is they weren't mass market items, they were produced in low numbers and even brand new were tough to find. Now that they are out of print they are even harder to find and often go for multiple times what they originally did.

Also for films like Dumbo and Peter Pan I don't think they have ever included any sort of disclaimer for them have they? And those are much more widely available than any of the Disney Treasures sets.

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I don't disagree with anything you said. Just wanted to point out I think it's weird that WB gets credit for "doing it right" when I think the Leonard Maltin stuff was a step even further in the right direction. Since he shows examples and talks about it.

I 100% agree Disney is inconsistent in their approach, but there is already an example of them making some effort and I just wanted to point that out.

 

[FF Seraphim]

It's good, but I think a more engaging intro is better:

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Perfect way to address this. Educate people and explain why it is still there.

 

[Jarmel]

It's good, but I think a more engaging intro is better:

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Yea this is definitely an improvement over the WB disclaimer.

 

[Beef Supreme]

First post nails it. I'm opposed to censorship in any form.

 

[-shadow-]

It's kind of an important part to the ending, so I didn't know how they would have pulled it off taking it out.

Just do what WB did with the warning and disclaimer about the history of the period.

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How the hell isn't Disney still able to bloody do this? But on the other hand, they're airbrushing photos of Walt to remove his cigarettes... Oh well...

 

[Deleted member 1086]

Yea this is definitely an improvement over the WB disclaimer.

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Aside from the fact that WB also put out these Tom and Jerry sets, a video message like this appeared on the third Looney Tunes Golden Collection, that gold disclaimer card appeared on the fourth through sixth Golden Collections.

 

[Deleted member 401]

For what it's worth, while Jim himself is voiced by a white actor (go-to Disney guy Cliff Edwards, who was also Jiminey Cricket and some other roles), the other three are accomplished black actors and musicians of the time. Including the very important and renowned Hall Johnson. Another is James Baskett, who was a big stage actor, collaborator with Louis Armstrong, and in fact played Uncle Remus a few years later, which won him an oscar two years later in 1948 - the first ever awarded to a black performer.

https://the-disney-elite.tumblr.com/post/170501324978/the-voice-actors-behind-the-crows-from-dumbo

I'm not saying that justifies anything, and it's unfortunate that Jim couldn't be voiced by a black actor/musician too. But it seems like there's more nuance here than meets the eye. I don't think the sequence is supposed to be mocking at all... the musical number sounds a lot like 40's/50's vintage blues, especially some of the more uptempo Delta Blues. If you listen to say, some Willie Dixon or some early Muddy Waters, it's a sound that was very much dominant in the genre:




Again, that's not to say the crows are a good look through a modern lens, or that they don't totally play into what Spike Lee called the "Magical Negro" trope: yeah, it's kinda nice that they're basically portrayed as the smartest characters in the movie, but that's kind of one of the issues too... they're a plot device whose cleverness is used to get the white (coded) Timothy and Dumbo out of trouble and teach them (and the audience) a valuable lesson.

I dunno, all that is just my dumb take on it.

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If I may add something, for all stereotypes that they play into and all their other issues, they're pretty much the only sympathetic characters in the whole movie outside of Dumbo, his mom, and Timothy.

 

[Aurizen]

If you ask me the entire movie should be removed. Both the old and new. It's really hard to unsee the slavery undertones and the treatment of animals.

 

[Conal]

To be fair all the Looney Tunes sets these disclaimers appeared on were intended for adult collectors, and included on their packaging they weren't suitable for children.

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Oh sure, I'm more talking to the people who use this image as some kind of silver bullet, catch all solution.

 

[BigMack]

Is the free trial thing going on in the US or another country? I hope things are left uncensored in the US version as well.

I wonder if we'll get the missing episode of Ducktales (Sphinx for the Memories) thats absent from digital releases.

 

[Rendering...]

It's kind of an important part to the ending, so I didn't know how they would have pulled it off taking it out.

Just do what WB did with the warning and disclaimer about the history of the period.

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Yeah this is the best thing to do.