Disney-Sony Standoff Ends Marvel Studios & Kevin Feige’s Involvement In ‘Spider-Man’

[Deleted member 16657]

Not to derail but I just wanted to inform you since you probably didn't know. "Ghetto" used like that is connected to lower income black neighborhoods specifically for being "decrepit" or "shitty"

Words like janky serve the same purpose without the connotation.

Click to shrink...

Thanks, I didn't necessarily think of ghetto as a black neighborhood cause the first time I heard the word was in the context of the Warsaw ghetto.

scuff, bootleg, fake ass

Click to shrink...

scuffed sinister six has a nice ring to it

The stinger in the post-credits scene in Far From Home is legitimately the best cliffhanger they have ever done in the MCU, so I hope this news doesn't make them not follow through on that.

Click to shrink...

Well they have to, when they make the spinoff movie about

Spoiler

J Jonah Jameson's college days trying to run the school paper, where he'll make unlikely friends in the form of a pointdexter named Otto Octavius and a electrical engineer named Max Dillon

 

[KTC]

Sony could still force SE to fold if the heat is too strong

I mean IIRC the original deal happened because Kaz and Co. called Amy and went "Hey we noticed you said no to MCU deal, just wanted to know what the fuck are you thinking?"

Click to shrink...

I would put money on Disney or Feige leaking this stuff to Deadline to illicit the same reactions people had when the Sony email leaks happened, and it's working too.

People are calling out Disney for their shit but the heat is majorly on Sony right now.

 

[kurahador]

Tom Holland is going to have a few awkward comic-cons coming up

Click to shrink...

Seriously. That Uncharted movie conference going to have to skip fan question.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Holy shit this is huge news, and bad news at that. Spidey was one of the better aspects of the MCU, bringing a much needed youthful humorous element.

Hope Marvel renegotiates or something, because I can understand why Sony wouldn't want to give away a whopping 50% of their box office, when Marvel already gets to keep all cross-over revenue. Lest we forget even Venom grossed $900m globally, and the Amazing Spider-Man movies grossed $800m world wide, and none of these movies were that great, so I'm not surprised Sony wouldn't want to give away 50%. If they did, they'd potentially be making less on Spidey than they were several years ago, or losing out on a tonne of revenue they might make without Marvels input.

Click to shrink...

Disney was offering to co-finance though it wasn't like it was a dry outcome

 

[Sandfox]

Spider-Man 3 focusing on Uncle Ben and making him Peter's only father figure makes way too much sense.

 

[Antoo]

How are we getting that the talent isn't paid as much working on the Spiderman films as they would any other film? It's just Sony paying the talent instead of Disney/Marvel.

Click to shrink...

No, what I'm saying is Disney as a corporation isn't getting as big as a return as they would have had they diverted their internal resources at Marvel Studios to a project that is entirely their own.

Right now they are developing movies, making TV shows, and planning the future of the MCU with mutants. That is a lot of work. They have to prioritize certain projects. Sony wants a Spider-Man film every 2 years.

They have to draw away resources to make a Spidey film that they could have had placed on something else that is wholly owned by Disney and thereby making them more money.

The talent is probably paid the same;however, Disney isn't getting a lot out of the whole process. They are essentially giving away their toys for a while. While they have to pay for the talent themselves for their own projects, the fact they earn all the profit more then makes up for that.

 

[Sedated]

Sony should go login route as in do time skip peter is now 23 from 16 and carry on. Tom is 23 all works out.

 

[Haze]

Do you even understand what a producer like Feige brings to the table? What somebody like that - who essentially orchestrated the MCU as it exists today - lends to a production?

Without him they of course still have a blueprint to make a couple of solid sequels but even that will be difficult now that the MCU connective tissue has been eliminated. Even assuming Spidey 3 and 4 are excellent, eventually Sony will have to reboot and when they do they will probably fuck it up based on their history.

Also, we have no idea who is on board for a non-MCU Spider-Man. Those types of changes can get people to jump ship quickly.

Click to shrink...

I understand what Feige does and that's why I said he was important. But this comes off as handwaiving the contributions of other people who probably had more of a hand in creating the actual film.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

They should get Tobey Maguire to play Uncle Ben in the next reboot. He'll be old enough.

Click to shrink...

Dude is 44,

For a hypothetical reboot get Tobey back, make it a spiritual "Spiderman 4" leave off that number and make it

credits stinger hints at Spiderverse, next they make a SpiderGwen movie starring Emma Stone(if they can get her, for that Amazing Spiderman connection)

 

[Cabbagehead]

Don't act like all Spider-Man movies Sony did are bad or are flops that made 5 cents at the box office. Sony would have continued the deal, but Disney's offer was pathetic. Now Spidey is leaving the MCU. It's all about the money. Sure. But this here is mainly Disney's fault.

We don't know the details. They only numbers we got was in the first article about the 50/50 & 95/5 deals.

Click to shrink...

So there wasn't a deal

Well Disney offer was to split the cost

and not be in a 95/5 split

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

It absolutely boggles my mind that someone at Marvel fucked up so badly that they gave all these franchise movie rights away so easily and without any real expiration. Spider-man is a marvel property....there really isn't a loophole they can't create to get their license back fully?

Click to shrink...

If there were loopholes Disney's 1000/hr lawyers would have figured it out and we would have had X-Men and FF in the MCU long ago, along with no reason for Marvel to deal with Sony for Spiderman.

In short, there's no loophole.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

FYI, when people talk about the Amazing Spider-Man 2 grossing 700 million worldwide, bear in mind that it is estimated that Sony only made about 70 million on that film when the smoke cleared.

By contrast, Homecoming made a profit of about 200 million and Far From Home is obviously going to make even more.

 

[Haze]

Thanks, I didn't necessarily think of ghetto as a black neighborhood cause the first time I heard the word was in the context of the Warsaw ghetto.

Click to shrink...

No biggie. I realize this is an international board and that's really an American thing.

 

[nib95]

Disney was offering to co-finance though it wasn't like it was a dry outcome

Click to shrink...

Even then, co-finance for a massive 50% of the revenue cut when you already get all the cross over revenue for use of the character, seems a bit much to ask. I can see why Sony would turn down such a deal. I can only hope they manage to re-negotiate because for me Spidey leaving the MCU would be a huge negative.

 

[Sandfox]

Dude is 44,

For a hypothetical reboot get Tobey back, make it a spiritual "Spiderman 4" leave off that number and make it

credits stinger hints at Spiderverse, next they make a SpiderGwen movie starring Emma Stone(if they can get her, for that Amazing Spiderman connection)

Click to shrink...

By the time Holland's contract is up and they put together a reboot dude will probably be in his 50s.

 

[Crazymoogle]

The numbers, the news, it's all fine to speculate, but it's simply negotiation tactics. Disney and Sony have their own reasons to play ball (Disney: MCU, Sony: Spiderman) and since nobody has blinked, they've taken it public to see if one side gets the edge. We knew this fight was inevitable ever since it began because of the time limit and money involved.

I wouldn't believe any of this is final until you actually see a movie announcement that precludes it. Both sides have too much money to lose, these tactics just get us closer to them solving it one way or another.

 

[Cabbagehead]

Even then, co-finance for a massive 50% of the revenue cut when you already get all the cross over revenue for use of the character, seems a bit much to ask. I can see why Sony would turn down such a deal.

Click to shrink...

95/5 doesn't seem f'd to you? after creating the film lol

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

Don't act like all Spider-Man movies Sony did are bad or are flops that made 5 cents at the box office. Sony would have continued the deal, but Disney's offer was pathetic. Now Spidey is leaving the MCU. It's all about the money. Sure. But this here is mainly Disney's fault.

Click to shrink...

The original deal was equally pathetic.

I agree Disney can and should take less however.

 

[thuway]

The numbers, the news, it's all fine to speculate, but it's simply negotiation tactics. Disney and Sony have their own reasons to play ball (Disney: MCU, Sony: Spiderman) and since nobody has blinked, they've taken it public to see if one side gets the edge. We knew this fight was inevitable ever since it began because of the time limit and money involved.

I wouldn't believe any of this is final until you actually see a movie announcement that precludes it. Both sides have too much money to lose, these tactics just get us closer to them solving it one way or another.

Click to shrink...

Thank you for the most well said post in this thread.


Some of the posts here have been petty as hell.

 

[Commander Quackers]

FYI, when people talk about the Amazing Spider-Man 2 grossing 700 million worldwide, bear in mind that it is estimated that Sony only made about 70 million on that film when the smoke cleared.

By contrast, Homecoming made a profit of about 200 million and Far From Home is obviously going to make even more.

Click to shrink...

and yet we're gonna keep hearin about it

 

[Cabbagehead]

Thank you for the most well said post in this thread.


Some of the posts here have been petty as hell.

Click to shrink...

expected

 

[Fj0823]

95/5 doesn't seem f'd to you? after creating the film lol

Click to shrink...

It's not like there's no middle ground

 

[Key222]

95/5 doesn't seem f'd to you? after creating the film lol

Click to shrink...

Considering Disney has no financial stack in the films, all the talent involved are being paid by Sony and Disney was fine with this deal when they had all the leverage, I don't see why there is anything wrong with 95/5.

 

[Cabbagehead]

and yet we're gonna keep hearin about it

Click to shrink...

folks don't understand that assumed profit doesn't always make returns

 

[cheesekao]

95/5 doesn't seem f'd to you? after creating the film lol

Click to shrink...

Depends on how much they earned from merchandise sales they got as part of the deal.

 

[Toni]

FYI, when people talk about the Amazing Spider-Man 2 grossing 700 million worldwide, bear in mind that it is estimated that Sony only made about 70 million on that film when the smoke cleared.

Click to shrink...

Do you have valid, credible sources to back this up?.

IF not this is all fluff and Sony did in fact took home majority of that 700 / 800 millions.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

I understand what Feige does and that's why I said he was important. But this comes off as handwaiving the contributions of other people who probably had more of a hand in creating the actual film.

Click to shrink...

I haven't hand-waved anything. Clearly there's plenty of talent behind these films and we can also safely assume Feige was instrumental in getting at least some of that talent on board.

If enough of that talent remains after he leaves we'll probably get a good sequel or two.

 

[Breqesk]

Spiderverse made less than $400m ww.

Click to shrink...

Variety

"Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse," which carries a $90 million budget, was an unexpected box office success and wound up grossing nearly $360 million worldwide. [This figure has since increased to $375 million.] The film was directed by Persichetti, Ramsey and Rothman from a screenplay by Lord and Rothman and a story by Lord. Miller and Lord produced along with Avi Arad, Amy Pascal and Christina Steinberg.

Click to shrink...

Right, but that's significantly more than it was expected to make, and easily enough for it to be considered a resounding financial success. Spider-Verse was never projected to make anywhere near as much as a live action Spider-Man film, and its budget reflected that.

 

[nib95]

FYI, when people talk about the Amazing Spider-Man 2 grossing 700 million worldwide, bear in mind that it is estimated that Sony only made about 70 million on that film when the smoke cleared.

By contrast, Homecoming made a profit of about 200 million and Far From Home is obviously going to make even more.

Click to shrink...

For better and more recent perspective, Venom actually made more profit than Homecoming. Guessing Sony believes they can expand on this sort of success with Spider-Man, with or without Marvel.

Venom bled plenty of black ink, enough to match his costume. A profit of $246.9M bests the $200.1M profit on 2017's Spider-Man: Homecoming by 23%, and that's largely because Venom cost less in combined production and worldwide P&A costs ($227M) than the wall crawler (Spider-Man: Homecoming's costs were $332M).

Click to shrink...

'Venom' Squeezes Plenty Of Black Ink For Sony: No. 6 In 2018 Most Valuable Blockbuster Tournament

 

[Cabbagehead]

Considering Disney has no financial stack in the films, all the talent involved are being paid by Sony and they were fine with this deal when they had all the leverage, I don't see why there is anything wrong with 95/5.

Click to shrink...

They offered to have more of a financial stack in the films, with their new offer and 50/50 was their real demand (or high ball dip). We still don't know what Sony did or said other than not go through with it.

For better and more recent perspective, Venom actually made more profit than Homecoming.



'Venom' Squeezes Plenty Of Black Ink For Sony: No. 6 In 2018 Most Valuable Blockbuster Tournament

Click to shrink...

and Sony thinks that's gonna continue

 

[Bor Gullet]

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

By the time Holland's contract is up and they put together a reboot dude will probably be in his 50s.

Click to shrink...

It doesn't actually have to wait for Holland's to end.
just establish the Spiderverse in the credits of whichever gets made next.
Do "Spiderman "4", Venom 2, Holland Spiderman 3, SpiderGwen, Into the Spiderverse 2 and finally a live action Spiderverse movie.


You could end into the Spiderverse 2 with Miles arriving in a live action world.

 

[Halbrand]

Click to shrink...

Perfect

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

It's not like there's no middle ground

Click to shrink...

Problem here might be Disney's BATNA is 25% of everything. Sony's BATNA might be 15% of the proceeds only. They are both a middle ground from their starting point, but still far away from each other. They still walk away.

This will be fascinating to watch in the next few days and Iger/Feige's D23 interviews.

 

[Haze]

I haven't hand-waved anything. Clearly there's plenty of talent behind these films and we can also safely assume Feige was instrumental in getting at least some of that talent on board.

If enough of that talent remains after he leaves we'll probably get a good sequel or two.

Click to shrink...

I mean I'm sure he did play a role in facilitating the talent. That's his job as a producer. But the talent is already there and even if this deal ends sourly, which I honesty doubt since it's an L for both sides, I don't see them leaving since im sure Watts and the writers are/were already beginning working on the new film.

 

[SArcher]

Do you have valid, credible sources to back this up?.

IF not this is all fluff and Sony did in fact took home majority of that 700 / 800 millions.

Click to shrink...

ASM 2 had an insane 255M budget though (that's before marketing which is like another 150M). And then theatres take a cut as well.

 

[Starlite]

There's almost no way they don't make a deal one way or another. They've integrated this version of Spider-Man into the MCU in such a mjor way that a split is going to be both franchises worse off if they seperate. A Spider-Man 3 outside the MCU isn't gonna have as much interest I don't feel (not to mention be signficiantly limited from a creative standpoint), and them lifitng Spider-Man as Tony's successor in the MCU in more ways than one is gonna result in an extremely awkward pivot in the MCU, not to mention somehow having to explain where the hell Spider-Man even went.

Sounds like Dinsey is the one at fault for it falling through? Either way they're gonna have to play ball. As much public support Disney has due to the MCU, at the end of the day Sony holds the rights to Spider-Man and there's nothing in the universe that's gonna convince them to give it up.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

Do you have valid, credible sources to back this up?.

IF not this is all fluff and Sony did in fact took home majority of that 700 / 800 millions.

Click to shrink...

Deadline Hollywood does these estimates and that's where I got the numbers. (Via Wikipedia)

That aligns with my understanding of the business however. The budget of a film is often doubled when factoring in marketing, which means Sony spent somewhere around 550 - 600 million on AS2. Then you have to factor in profit sharing with theaters, etc.

 

[KTC]

The numbers, the news, it's all fine to speculate, but it's simply negotiation tactics. Disney and Sony have their own reasons to play ball (Disney: MCU, Sony: Spiderman) and since nobody has blinked, they've taken it public to see if one side gets the edge. We knew this fight was inevitable ever since it began because of the time limit and money involved.

I wouldn't believe any of this is final until you actually see a movie announcement that precludes it. Both sides have too much money to lose, these tactics just get us closer to them solving it one way or another.

Click to shrink...

In terms of money only loser here would be Sony, the 5% Marvel Studios was getting on these Spider-Man movies is a relative drop in the ocean for them (and they contribute nothing towards budget) whereas the box office returns for Sony are crucial for them, Far From Home was touted only on Monday as their biggest ever box office hit and based on budget and marketing it'll be the most they've ever made from a Spider-Man movie.

If Marvel wanted to compensate for the loss of their 5% they could easily put out an animated movie about Captain Marvel's cat and people would go to watch it.

 

[Punished Goku]

 

[Deleted member 4260]

Click to shrink...

wow

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

For better and more recent perspective, Venom actually made more profit than Homecoming. Guessing Sony believes they can expand on this sort of success with Spider-Man, with or without Marvel.

Click to shrink...

That actually makes sense given that Venom only cost about a 100 million to make.

Edit:

Yep, Deadline Hollywood estimates it made 246.9 million.

It pays to keep costs down.

 

[SArcher]

Would be hilarious if the next Sony non-MCU Spider-Man movie bombs like Dark Phoenix.

 

[KTC]

Do you have valid, credible sources to back this up?.

IF not this is all fluff and Sony did in fact took home majority of that 700 / 800 millions.

Click to shrink...

That's not really how it works, you have to take into account the budget of the movie, the marketing and any box office costs incurred as well.

I've worked in entertainment distribution for years, box office numbers are not an indicator of pure cash going into your pocket.

 

[Macnair]

I like Spidey in the MCU and hopefully they set the new contract for 3 movies or more.

 

[Nightengale]

Here's a proposed SCU pitch for Sony in light of this new development. ;P

Venom 2 (2020)
- Eddie Brock causes the birth of Carnage, who caused a ton of chaos and murders throughout the city, which becomes attributed to Venom as well. To protect himself, Venom has to find and put an end to Carnage.
Post-credits scene: Eddie Brock watches JJ Jameson revealing Spidey's identity to the world.

Spider-Man: Homeless (2021)
- Peter Parker, in hiding after getting framed as a terrorist - got ambushed one night and wakes up amnesiac, with no memory other of Uncle Ben. Retracing his past while rediscovering the powers he has, he eventually learns that he is a clone of the real Peter Parker - who was saved off-screen. Takes up the name and mantle of Ben Reilly/Scarlet Spider, who only operates in the night. ( as he is still a wanted criminal )

-> If Tom Holland wants to continue in spite of no more MCU:

1. Venom vs Spider-Man
2. Spidey 4 with Kraven or Kaine
3. Maximum Carnage
4. Spidey 5: Death of Spider-Man ( pass the torch to Miles Morales )

If Tom Hollands decides to quit after 2-movies:

1. Spidey 4: Death of Spider-Man ( pass the torch to Miles Morales )
Continue the live-action franchise with Miles as the new Spidey.

 

[Sleve McDichael]

Agree to the 50/50 split, but demand 15% of any movie that Spidey appears in and lock in his next 3 or 4 MCU appearances.
They'd probably say no, then you start to negotiate the 50% down to 20 or 30%
Don't just walk away from the table. Get back up there and make a fucking deal.

 

[KTC]

Would be hilarious if the next Sony non-MCU Spider-Man movie bombs like Dark Phoenix.

Click to shrink...

Spider-Man movies will always make money but MCU Spidey has set the bar now at over $1b at the box office. Sony are going to have a hard time justifying to their shareholders why it makes sense to pull away from a money making franchise because the movie studio can't negotiate.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

That's not really how it works, you have to take into account the budget of the movie, the marketing and any box office costs incurred as well.

I've worked in entertainment distribution for years, box office numbers are not an indicator of pure cash going into your pocket.

Click to shrink...

I've been a film buff for decades and I've only very recently come to understand just how much overhead these films take on.

It's staggering.

 

[Commander Quackers]

Do you have valid, credible sources to back this up?.

IF not this is all fluff and Sony did in fact took home majority of that 700 / 800 millions.

Click to shrink...

2 min google search
https://deadline.com/2015/03/amazing-spider-man-2-profit-box-office-2014-1201389608/

Their first film had a worldwide gross of $757.9M, with $262M domestic and $495.9M foreign. Amazing Spider-Man 2's $708.98M worldwide fell short of that, and its $202.85M domestic was off and the $506M foreign was good but that enjoyed a boost from a burgeoning marketplace in China. The biggest problem, according to our data, is that the movie cost too darned much at $255M. That left Sony Pictures with a $70.38 million net, or a 1.12 cash-on-cash return, and 18th place in the 2014 rankings.

Click to shrink...