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Disney, Nestle, Epic Games pull ads from YouTube after reports of site facilitating child sex ring
- Thread starter Linkura
- Start date
Just stop demonetizing it. I'm fine with them not getting paid for clickbait and sensationalist bullshit.
This issue is complex and needs to be addressed, but not at the expense of the honest, hardworking creators that have a hard enough time dealing with monetization as it is. Also "child sex rings" isn't what is happening here.
Using that spurious logic, the entire internet needs to be shut down. Every form of open exchange has the potential to be abused by bad actors. The underlying issue here are the comments and recommendation algorithms, and they're not a necessity for the continuing existence of the site.
I think YouTube needs human curation in the loop, with a focus on quality over controversy. They could have been the next Netflix instead forcing a weird pile of video kipple on people and attaching a comment cesspool to it.
I still don't see why we really need to care about people's invented careers. "All the youtubers won't be able to support themselves youtubing!" ok, so what? What's even sillier is the whole using people's aspirations of a career to hold them hostage. This whole thing is manufactured, it only came into being about a decade ago and just because something has some value doesn't mean it justifies its existence.
Thing is, as he even mentioned in the video, he wasn't the first to report on it, this has been a situation for awhile now with YT. It's just he brought it to more attention than it had before.
Back when YT was new the comments section was useful and not such a cesspit. Nowadays, with so many other options like forums, Reddit, and discord available, YT comment section isn't nearly as useful. If I was a gaming youtuber, I'd rather have a thread here on ERA and interact with people here, than on YT, for example.
What do you know, creators are throwing a tantrum. Turns out it's not just YouTube being greedy.
Their reaction is pretty much what you'd expect.
If Google take responsibility for this, then they're essentially admitting they're a publisher, not a platform.
They do that and a shit ton of regulations are coming their way.
I'd argue that it's justified as Big Tech has had a lot of time to show they can self regulate, but fail repeatedly. From Google's perspective however, that's a massive problem so their only reaction is to push this to the creators.
If Google take responsibility for this, then they're essentially admitting they're a publisher, not a platform.
They do that and a shit ton of regulations are coming their way.
I'd argue that it's justified as Big Tech has had a lot of time to show they can self regulate, but fail repeatedly. From Google's perspective however, that's a massive problem so their only reaction is to push this to the creators.
Splitting your audience around multiple platforms just to interact with them is a terrible way to build an audience if you are small.
You also have way more control over your own comment section than a forum on a separate platform where you might not even have moderation rights.
Topical: https://www.resetera.com/threads/go...ror-in-not-disclosing-this-microphone.100897/
ID would not make spying easier, because it already is easy. It would make as accountable towards each other as individuals. And, to bring this back on topic, I was talking content creators. Let's say you create a harmful then you set it into the wild, anonymously. Anyone can share it and claim deniability. There are TROLL FARMS that exists solely to create fake news and memes to muddle the waters. When you buy a newspaper, you know who the publisher and author are. When you buy a candybar you know the manufacturer and the ingredients. You know what you are consuming and from whom. This does not eliminate all the problems. But it's better then the open seas of the Internet when anything goes. Where you can harrass someone or send death threats or create anti-vac propaganda anonymously.
I mean, this is a problem any public figure has to deal with. It goes with the territory. It's not only celebrities, its local reporters, writers, public servants, anyone who is in the open.
If someone wants to doxx you, they will, you leave a digital fingerprint. What a digital ID would do, it would allow to identify the mob of hateful posters. Any I never said I want you to give your real name to the public, just as you don't wear your real ID on your forehead. But you need to made accountable when you do stupid, hateful, harmful stuff.
None here oppose the social media justice dished out to the degenerate among celebrities. But finding about this stuff would be a lot harder if those people weren't identifiable, if everybody would wear a mask so to speak.
Transparency more often leads to rising standards rather than some dystopian dictatorship. On the other hand, Internet anonymity and freedom hasn't stopped the rise of autoritharian governments and alt-right movements, on the contrary, it faciliates it.
The majority of troll farms are state run and done by bots. An ID system doesn't solve this.
The right currently has entire online media companies where the authors are not anonymous, they are very public. See info wars and Brightbart.
The issue with modern day online harassment is the state and companies are unwilling to punish those who do it, not because they're anonymous. An ID system would just put a face to a name, people will still do it consequence free. Plus there will surely be people who will steal other people's IDs or simply make accounts outside of countries where ID systems exist.
Being paid to make media content isn't a new industry
Yea, it's totally the same thing. All these greedy YouTubers *checks notes*... worried about their livelihoods
...
I don't think what I said should be unreasonable. People might like Youtube but I'm laying out an argument why that really shouldn't matter if we talk about Youtube as an entity. Space can be easily filled, they aren't doing anything super interesting anymore, just being a monopoly.
Making media has never entitled anyone to a job. Nobody is going to say that studio X must survive because otherwise their employees won't get paid, so it's weird we make an argument that producers on a platform getting paid necessitate the survival of the platform. What is new is a form of individual contracting with out a contract to large tech brands. People give up their rights to not have the rug pulled out from under them because they aren't real employees. Monopolistic conditions keep them there and it's a toxic agreement even if those 0.1% make it big. But nothing here necessitates this arrangement need to be viable (certainly Google does not), so why fight for it?
Frankly, I'm over all of the social media companies basically just complaining that the problem they're being asked to solve is too big. Facebook, Google/Youtube, Twitter, all saying making any real headway is too big of a problem.
Too damn bad, it's not my fault you built a whole business model without considering the scaling issues and thinking ahead to the potential abuses it could cause and plan for addressing them.
As for YouTube creators, they aren't owed a career on Youtube anymore than a coal miner is owed a career in a coal mine if the good of society and the progression of the world deems it necessary that that job go away. Maybe the Youtube creators should consider career retraining programs.
Too damn bad, it's not my fault you built a whole business model without considering the scaling issues and thinking ahead to the potential abuses it could cause and plan for addressing them.
As for YouTube creators, they aren't owed a career on Youtube anymore than a coal miner is owed a career in a coal mine if the good of society and the progression of the world deems it necessary that that job go away. Maybe the Youtube creators should consider career retraining programs.
This is unrealistic and completely nonsensical.
That is kind of minor in the grand scheme of things though. The overwhelming majority of comment areas serve for nothing but unimportant nonsense and a place to spew vile hate.
Comments should be completely killed.
Seriously. They've allowed pieces of actual shit get in front of anyone with virtually no filter. Lots of these shitheels motive isn't the money from ads, it's spreading their toxic message. YT has been all too happy to hold the door open for them and cash in on it, knowingly.
I'd like to see creators start to move their content elsewhere. Yes, it impacts (to put it lightly) revenue, but change doesn't happen until you make it happen.
If your channel is so dependent on comments, that without them you will fail... I mean, that's unfortunate, but YouTube Comments need to die. You have other options available for interactions. Start a Discord, go to Twitch, try Patreon. Some place where there is at least some attempt at moderation. Google will never invest the resources required to scrub YouTube clean, I'm not sure it would even be possible. The only options are maintain the status quo-- which is now actively harming children-- or go the imdb route and nuke comments into space. The latter is the correct option.
Wait, what is actually wrong with the approach they're laying out re: inappropriate comments resulting in comments being disabled for the video? This incentivizes content creators to moderate their comments / turn on review and approval for all comments / disable comments, and helps ensure advertisers won't be connected to videos with toxic comments.
Is this a "child sex ring" or is it just creepers leaving hobo signs for each other on innocent videos of children that are within normal rules and standards?
Honest question, I'm not really trying to go down this rabbit hole given the implications on its impacts on recommendations in the algorithm.
Honest question, I'm not really trying to go down this rabbit hole given the implications on its impacts on recommendations in the algorithm.
channels are dependent on comments because of youtube's algorithm itself. the algorithm considers some esoteric combination of views, watch time and engagement (comments) when deciding what videos to surface for each user. i think most creators understand there are better alternatives to communicate with their viewers, but if they're trying to grow or even maintain the current viewer base for their channels, they HAVE to have an active youtube comments section.
It's hobo signs on innocent videos + the YT algorithm where if you started with a bikini haul search, you get offered some kids gymnastics videos, and if you click on one of those, then you're just going to get more of those videos + innocent videos reuploaded with sketchy thumbnails + some seemingly exploitative videos (meaning technically within guidelines, but you can tell there's a creepy intent).
Immediate response (i.e. within 48 hours) included disabling comments on tens of millions of videos, termination of 400+ accounts / channels for comments left on such videos, and illegal comments reported to law enforcement.
Further steps being taken include automated disabling of comments on videos getting inappropriate comments, in some cases automated demonetization of videos with inappropriate comments (I believe this is if your video is getting inappropriate comments and your video has kids in it). The implicit communication to YT creators is essentially to moderate comments, disable comments, or do nothing and risk your videos getting demonetized.
Getting rid of comments on videos is the best solution to these things. Users will deal with it in the end. ESPN got rid of comments and in the end who cares. The comments are almost always fucking stupid... and in this case fucking disgusting and dangerous.
It's about time that Youtube starts getting realistically pressured into doing something about their content problem. It's not enough to just point to the algorithm and screw other smaller youtubers who didn't even do anything wrong whenever a controversy pops up.
Seems to me that disabling comments just means these people will gather on some other social network and share timestamps. An actual solution is going to require a fundamental change in who/how content is uploaded to youtube and a robust system of oversight... rather than just tossing everything into a big bowl algorithm and hoping it works out.
LOL its minor to you not minor to the people in the ebike business.
Hopefully google will tell you to fuck off.
The harassment that people face and the child sex ring are more important than people in the ebike business who like comments.
Sorry.
Thanks for the overly abrasive and rude response though.
It clearly doesn't work or isn't implemented.
Do you ever use youtube?
I think you misunderstood. They have announced, within the last day, the approach I summarized. I'm asking what you think is actually wrong with that approach.
Yes, I use Youtube,
"Won't SOMEONE think of the ebike review comments?!"
Get out of here with this mess
It won't prevent people from spreading bullshit and toxic crap. Most videos on youtube get a quick buzz then die out. By the time they disable the comments harm and stupidity will already have been done.
I usually watch Youtube using the app on my TV or Roku. I never even see comments in the first place so whether they exist or not is irrelevant to that groups of viewers. I wonder what the percentage of views are that come from TV-style apps on Smart TVs, streaming boxes, and game consoles are? Probably small.
What would be reported to law enforcement if the material in the videos wasn't actually pornographic? That's the part that I don't really get.
Like, if some creep wants to jerk off to Tiger Beat magazine, that doesn't make Tiger Beat pornographic, and I don't know realistically what anyone can do about it.
Less than 10% usually on my channel. Mobile and desktop are the biggest
I have a small tech channel and comments are huge. Lots of people ask advice, about compatibility, make suggestions, troubleshoot, etc.
Maybe they should just make it against the TOS for minors to post videos or to post videos with minors in them 🤷♂️
My sense is that this would be, for example, comments that direct people to actual cp stuff or how to find it. For example, "If you like this, then you'll love (insert evil stuff here)..."
Depends on the effectiveness of the system, which we'll see soon. They've gotten really good at immediate, automated action on copyrighted material. There's automated audio analysis on videos. They managed to disable comments on 10+ million videos within 48 hours. We'll see how this work and improves over time. Also, I'm referring to the kinds of comments highlighted by this issue (perverts commenting on kids videos), not bullshit comments in general.
Feel free to ignore this reply cuz I know you're looking for an app alternative, but I'm curious if you've found comments to be intrusive in the app. I never see them unless I go looking for them. I'm on iOS, though, so perhaps the Android app is different?
It's not, but I always end up clicking on them anyway (my fault, I know), and they just make me mad most of the time. I'd prefer to not even be reminded they're there lol