They would simply use different symbols. See German racists flying US Confederate flags.
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Disney, Nestle, Epic Games pull ads from YouTube after reports of site facilitating child sex ring
- Thread starter Linkura
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They would simply use different symbols. See German racists flying US Confederate flags.
That is why moderation is still needed. Good luck showing your picture when you're de-platformed.
In that guys video there seemed to be a lot of videos about sucking popsicles.
Epic? They have Fortnite, and UE4 dominates the market. That qualifies, I think.
If moderating the current inflow of videos isn't possible for current Youtube then maybe they need to dramatically limit who can upload things.
I don't like the idea of it being limited to very few people, but I'd rather that happen than people shrug "They can't moderate it 'cause it's haaaard"
I don't like the idea of it being limited to very few people, but I'd rather that happen than people shrug "They can't moderate it 'cause it's haaaard"
I would be so okay with this. The fewer comments sections the better. Especially on YouTube.
I don't buy the "moderating is too hard" excuse. While certainly things will slip through the cracks, the fact is that they just don't consider it a priority. Responding to DMCA complaints is the #1 priority for content sites like Youtube. They would be held more accountable for hosting DMCA violations. It's fucked up.
Unfortunately, if you search "ASMR" and sort by Upload Date you'll see half the results are girls between 13-17 licking microphones.
I don't agree. In the course of history humans have always been accountable for what they do and say. The rise of accountability systems, like morality, barter or law has allowed us to evolve as a civilization. The Internet seems like a throwback to those early days, when you could say or do anything, then move to the next village and start again. There's been dozens upon dozens of studies that show that anonymity lowers one's feeling of responsiblity for one's words and actions.
Except they aren't really anonymous. They can easily be traced with existing technology. We don't need to eliminate privacy to punish criminals.
The main concern I have heard about this is from creators who use the comment section to foster community. But I figure they could just link to an off-site platform for that if need be. Like Discord or Reddit.
You contradict yourself. Either they are easily traced and there is no privacy, only the illusion of it, or they're not. And I'm not talking about punishing criminals, I'm talking about stopping the wave of false, unscientific, racist, mysoginistic, undemocratic content that is easy to replicate and propagate.
The NY Times has picked up the story as well, but their reporting contains this worrying note:
Because your damn ad revenue is more important than keeping kids safe amirite?
Because your damn ad revenue is more important than keeping kids safe amirite?
Most online services track you and log your information. It isn't that hard for the state to get this information in order to find someone if they break the law (at least in the US).
With a national ID system for internet access, using privacy focused services becomes pointless, but the bad actors you worry about aren't really focusing on those services, they act out in the open. As a result, an ID system serves mainly to hurt the people most vulnerable in society who do need privacy.
Edit: The solution is to pass hate speech laws in countries that don't have them, enforce those laws, and required platforms to take down and punish those who violate them.
I don't think people are considering how bad the notion of "disable all YouTube comments" would be for small or independent YouTube content creators.
When you post a YouTube video for the first time, it's like throwing something into a giant void without knowing if anyone is ever going to see it. You could post something, wake up and see 40 views and 3 likes and that's it. But if you get, like, 2 comments, you read them and it motivates you more because you see actual people who took the time to comment. A lot of small channels start gaining momentum and an audience through small community interaction and that feedback is valuable in improving, knowing what people want, and motivating them. I would hate posting a YouTube video to wake up to something like 10,000 views, 800 likes, and disabled comments. It would feel very soulless and pointless. Hooray, I achieved numbers. Part of the fun is waking up, seeing 300 comments, reading them and replying to people. Even larger channels (like Lindsay Ellis, for example) reads their comments and "hearts" them or replies to people. I was really excited when Lindsay replied to one of my comments, it was a cool user experience. The only people who might not care are the big corporate channels who just use comments as a statistic, and even THEY would probably care if comments were deleted (just as a thing to track).
That being said, YouTube does need to get its act together with its algorithms and moderation, because this kind of shit is unacceptable. I was thinking one solution would be to make YouTuber's more responsible for moderating their comments... It does already give creators tools to delete comments or block people. But that would create an issue of people becoming responsible for other people's toxicity they can't technically control, and it is YouTube's platform and they should be the ones moderating. I'm thinking a better solution would be to control the YouTube accounts better but don't know how to do it without getting too draconian with privacy issues and stuff.
When you post a YouTube video for the first time, it's like throwing something into a giant void without knowing if anyone is ever going to see it. You could post something, wake up and see 40 views and 3 likes and that's it. But if you get, like, 2 comments, you read them and it motivates you more because you see actual people who took the time to comment. A lot of small channels start gaining momentum and an audience through small community interaction and that feedback is valuable in improving, knowing what people want, and motivating them. I would hate posting a YouTube video to wake up to something like 10,000 views, 800 likes, and disabled comments. It would feel very soulless and pointless. Hooray, I achieved numbers. Part of the fun is waking up, seeing 300 comments, reading them and replying to people. Even larger channels (like Lindsay Ellis, for example) reads their comments and "hearts" them or replies to people. I was really excited when Lindsay replied to one of my comments, it was a cool user experience. The only people who might not care are the big corporate channels who just use comments as a statistic, and even THEY would probably care if comments were deleted (just as a thing to track).
That being said, YouTube does need to get its act together with its algorithms and moderation, because this kind of shit is unacceptable. I was thinking one solution would be to make YouTuber's more responsible for moderating their comments... It does already give creators tools to delete comments or block people. But that would create an issue of people becoming responsible for other people's toxicity they can't technically control, and it is YouTube's platform and they should be the ones moderating. I'm thinking a better solution would be to control the YouTube accounts better but don't know how to do it without getting too draconian with privacy issues and stuff.
I strongly disagree. Like with most psychology-related topics, it's not about what is, but what it appears to be. People feeling anonymous and untouchable on the Internet has caused a lot of harm and not a lot of good.
Also, it's a ridiculous proposition. It's like saying real life ID systems hurt the ordinary people, because criminals don't have ID's on them when committing crimes. The paperwork with opening accounts and taking loans hurts ordinary people because bank robbers exist. This is very disingenuous.
The real reason most people push back on Internet ID is not about privacy, it's about power and the fear of losing it. When you're accustomed to being able to freely say and do anything on the Internet, any sort of accountability feels like oppression.
There is, I think, a parallel to be made with the pirate freedom ideologies of the 17th and 18th century.
You ignore the vast benefits global connectivity has brought people. Centralization of the internet if anything has done far more harm than the prior era where we were mostly anonymous instead of constantly spied on by governments and monopolistic corporations. Do you serious think making it even easy to track people will improve that?
Having a real life ID is not the same as having a digital one. The government already knows who I am before I even walk in the door to get a driver's license. A digital ID isn't the same. It can be used to track me anywhere and learn things about me that would otherwise be impossible to find. This enables a level of authoritarianism only previously possible in dystopian fiction. We've seen the results of such a society in modern day China, where the population is under constant surveillance by both public and private entities, enabling the state to crush whomever dares to question the status quo or speak out against injustice.
Your solution doesn't bring accountability, it brings authoritarianism.
Money is like that - threaten to take it away, and otherwise decent people will become downright evil to defend bad behavior.
As to a solution for this problem? I have no fucking clue:
- There's far too much content for 100% effective human moderation, and the algorithms are obviously fucked.
- Removing the ability to comment on videos of minors would help with the timestamp problem, but then the suggested videos problem still remains.
- A lot of these pedos are in foreign countries with varying degrees of interest in cracking down on this behavior, and many of the ones in countries who take it seriously use VPNs to protect themselves from detection.
- YouTube video comments have legitimate use, so shutting them down completely is a non-starter.
- I'm personally learning toward less, rather than more, anonymity on the Internet, but I also understand the authoritarian ramifications.
Yeah, that part was expected. People are more worried about their ad money. Im all for burning youtube down.
Seeing an awful lot of people here more concerned about how disabling comments would hurt their viewing experience than protecting real life children from harm and it's pretty concerning.
Nah, I think it's more of a "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" thing. You could better address the issue by making comments disabled by default for videos by kids / of kids, and if you opt in for comments, then they would be 100% user moderated. That's a pretty darn good solution without disabling comments altogether.
You could scale that easily with machine learning too.
What I don't get is the constant calls to authoritarianism. Thought we were more progressive here. You can do better moderation without completely pulling completely unilateral measures like disabling comments en masse. I watch YT tons, sub to many small channels, and most have very well moderated comment sections.
But see, this is not the first time this has happened,
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/15/16656706/youtube-videos-children-comments
Whatever Google is doing, is clearly has not helped. Hell, you could argue they've made it worse through it's aggressive algorithms. Why should we trust that it's going to change anytime soon?
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/15/16656706/youtube-videos-children-comments
Whatever Google is doing, is clearly has not helped. Hell, you could argue they've made it worse through it's aggressive algorithms. Why should we trust that it's going to change anytime soon?
A fix would be...
* Don't display ads on the videos themselves
* Display ads on a separate page... for example, click on a video... open an "ad video page"... once it ends, reload the page with the requested video.
* Don't display ads on the videos themselves
* Display ads on a separate page... for example, click on a video... open an "ad video page"... once it ends, reload the page with the requested video.
What does that fix? Sure, the videos and ads technically aren't connected anymore, but the problematic videos still exist. I'm not concerned about the ad revenue at all, just the videos they're attached to.
A lot of people say this but every time they make a move they hit a bunch of bystander channels.
If they could apply such fine tuned moderation we wouldn't have this problem in the first place!
That's why they should do a combination of human and machine moderation. They are too reliant on their algorithms. It is a Google company after all lol.
Well, they've repeatedly shown that they're unwilling to mix humans and algorithms, for whatever reasons they have.
People have repeatedly called for action.
So the solution here is the perfect, most simple brute force algorithm, set commentsEnabled = -1
A lot of channels these days disable comments on their videos outright because it's so toxic. Everything that comes out of the official FFXIV channel has the comments disabled.
I don't believe anonymity of the Internet contributed to the global connectivity. Free access to all income classes did.
There's a curious duality to what you're saying: either the government knows everything about you before you walk in or it doesn't. If they know everything about your real life, they can know about your digital life too. What protects your anonymity on the Internet is not you not having a digital ID, it's you being one of a billion people that are of no particular interest at the moment. Surveillance states can and will grow independant of the freedom of the Internet, because shutting down the Internet is like flicking a switch. If your goverment will want to control you, they won't do it through digital ID, they will just go to your service provider. What the anonymity will bring - and you can already see it - is the rise of populist agendas, like the alt-right with their alt-facts, and falsehoods, like the anti-vaccination movements. And when those people, that use the Internet to spread their ideologies, rise to power THEN they will take your freedom of privacy from you - and, again, not through digital ID.
What digital ID would be useful for is a more civil and accountable Internet on the 'local' level.
Also, if you have a phone with a microphone enabled, use services like Facebook, Instagram, Amazon, Netflix etc., the people running those companies know everything about you already. And you gave it all away freely. To them you're not anonymous. But they don't use this knowledge for your betterment, they use it to make money.
I feel the type of privacy you think of - freedom from giant entities like government or corporations - is already gone, people just don't realize it. What is lacking is that accountability of personal actions.
Get fucked asswipes.
Glad years of letting pedophiles run rampant, conspiracy videos go unchecked and giving alt-right nazis a platform is, finally, finally blowing up in their face.
Except that's not what I'm saying. Spying, as I have stated, is already a problem. An ID tied to everything you do just makes it even easier. When you call for an ID you are effectively saying that spying is good and we need even more of it.
The alt right is big thanks to how society has allowed them to be tolerated openly, not due to anonymity. Otherwise they'd have never left 4chan. Anonymity only benefited them when their ideas were not seen as acceptable by the majority, but to really grow they needed to be where people are, like Facebook and Twitter, they need to be loud and open, unashamed of being seen as alt right.
I'm not defending big corporations collecting data, this is a problem that an ID system would only make even worse.
People are now starting to realize that this level of spying is unacceptable, and in the not too distant future we will see mass spying be undone through government regulation and consumer choice.
I never said anonymity created global connectivity, I'm saying centralization has hurt it.
If you want to combat the alt-right then you need to hold the platforms that host them accountable both legally and financially. Passing hate speech laws won't hurt either. Build a truely equal society instead of one full of inequality. Don't blame technology for the failure of individuals to use it properly.
It's stuff like this and YouTube's other rubbish shenanigans that really make me wish there were legitimate video sharing competitors that could go toe-to-toe with them. Unfortunately it just seems to be an unfeasible goal at this point and it's very disappointing. Nobody seems to have any real capital or infrastructure to actually take them on for the long haul.
I remember Vidme making waves a few years ago, only for that to close up shop pretty quickly. Same thing with Vine, although that platform (alongside its active spiritual successor, TikTok) was also gunning for a notably different format of videos. Recently checked an old account I had on Dailymotion and that site can't even compete with where YouTube's account management features was five years ago, let alone today; and the few videos I had there are a good fraction of the same videos on my YouTube account. Not too familiar with Vimeo much, but one look at their account subscription plans show me that basic free accounts only gets you half a bag of peanuts in regards to features and storage. And those are just the video sites I actually have aware of beyond one passing mention.
(P.S. Wanna see something really forlorn? Fancaster.com. Party like it's perpetually 2006. And the site's still getting at least one video uploaded every few months. )
I remember Vidme making waves a few years ago, only for that to close up shop pretty quickly. Same thing with Vine, although that platform (alongside its active spiritual successor, TikTok) was also gunning for a notably different format of videos. Recently checked an old account I had on Dailymotion and that site can't even compete with where YouTube's account management features was five years ago, let alone today; and the few videos I had there are a good fraction of the same videos on my YouTube account. Not too familiar with Vimeo much, but one look at their account subscription plans show me that basic free accounts only gets you half a bag of peanuts in regards to features and storage. And those are just the video sites I actually have aware of beyond one passing mention.
(P.S. Wanna see something really forlorn? Fancaster.com. Party like it's perpetually 2006. And the site's still getting at least one video uploaded every few months. )
What the hell these selfish fucks
Also this isnt only about the comments on YT, videos itself are worrying. Such as kids doing ASMR
watching the matt watson and its creeping my fuckout. Its pretty horrible and he's not wrong about the timestamping
yuck.
yuck.