• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Disco Elysium Developers Shout Out Marx And Engels In Game Awards Victory Speech

Jakisthe

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,561
Doukou said:
I already told you the ideas like free education and no child labor, that's the actual policies/ideas he had .

Once again you think Karl Marx wrote something else then what he actually wrote. Karl Marx wrote that capitalism would eventually lead to classless/stateless society based off fundamental things about capitalism that would lead to people adopting more classless/stateless policies over time. Karl Marx was describing what he thought capitalism would become over time, not what laws/things society should implement
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So the development of what communism might look like happened in a way completely unrelated to the Communist Manifesto? There are no aspects of the economic structure which might be said to be closer or farther in relation to the ideas he generated, regardless of if he pointed in a specific direction?

I guess I can appreciate that he pointed to things like child labor/education, but I'm a little lost otherwise when people say things like "there was never meant to be capital". Not necessarily because I know that's not what he meant, or that's specifically right or wrong, but because if he didn't have a specific arc to his writing, where are these ideas coming from, and from there, which of these ideas I keep hearing are the most correct implementation of this continued arc.
 
Last edited:
Doukou

Doukou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,526
Jakisthe said:
So the development of what communism might look like happened in a way completely unrelated to the Communist Manifesto? There are no aspects of the economic structure which might be said to be closer or farther in relation to the ideas he generated?

I guess I can appreciate that he pointed to things like child labor/education, but I'm a little lost otherwise when people say things like "there was never meant to be capital". Not necessarily because I know that's not what he meant, or that's specifically right or wrong, but because if he didn't have a specific arc to his writing, where are these ideas coming from, and from there, which of these ideas I keep hearing are the most correct implementation of this continued arc.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean if you want these questions answered it would probably be easier to just read the book. The Communist Manifesto is more of a prediction(that has turned to be rather accurate so far) than an ideology.
 
BreakingARC

BreakingARC

Member
Oct 30, 2017
254
thepotatoman said:
I don't think there's very much that would be lost if it does chug for you.

Only reason it requires any power is it's a Unity engine game, so if you've ever played a Unity engine game on that machine you probably know what to expect.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Einherjer said:
Yeah no problem the cpu requirements are completely exaggerated for some reason, this runs 60fps+ even on pre Haswell I5s (and very likely I3s but i didn't test that).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Thank you both, I'll try and just refund if its too bad. Always forget about steams refund policy.
 

Nerokis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,563
Fantastapotamus said:
I mean, the game doesn't really make a political statement.
That doesn't mean it's apolitical. At all.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, neither is Assassin's Creed: Origins or KOTOR II.

It's difficult to imagine apolitical art. Thus, in this context, "apolitical" refers to the discourse that emphasizes the supposed absence of political statements. On one end, we have Ubisoft, attempting to exist in a realm with as little politics as possible and hilariously failing; in the middle, we have Chris Avellone, who framed the "no political statements" approach as an anti-didactic and pro-storytelling thing; and finally, we have Disco Elysium devs, most explicitly messing around with political subjects but apparently in a political statement-free manner.

In general, "no political statements" claims tend to be nonsensical on multiple levels, and I find it hard to imagine that doesn't apply to Disco Elysium, too. But it is interesting to see developers so different from Ubisoft adopt similar rhetoric. It turns out there are multiple routes to not saying anything politically.
 
ZixlerBavala

ZixlerBavala

Member
Oct 29, 2017
408
Era can only be considered to the left of GAF when it comes to identity politics (which I support and think are fundamental). In economical matters this forum is just as much right-wing as the old one.

Screen_Shot_2019-03-05_at_11.34.08_AM.jpg


As a (proud) Marxist, I'm totally convinced that the game has a leftist slant. The Revachol Commune was doomed because of liberal capitalist intervention, and the only sliver of justice left in poverty-stricken Martinaise is the Union, despiite all its faults and even after acknowledging the Claire twins' corruption (Evrart being a gigantic blob of a man isn't exactly subtle criticism).


this is nothing but marketing rhetoric to try and not be off-putting before launch.
 
Last edited:
disgraciau

disgraciau

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,901
Ibiza, Balearic Islands, Spain
Taker34 said:
Great shoutouts, especially Viktor Tsoi. He's a music legend in Russia, singing against the regime. Most folks know his famous song Gruppa Krovi from GTA IV, check it out it's an 80s classic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


In Metro Exodus you can find some more of his songs. Loved them. I remember listening Gruppa Krovi on GTA 4 in Vladivostok FM. After playing Metro Exodus and discovering all those cool 80s USSR-era songs, I just discovered that Tsoi was Kino lol.
 
.exe

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,219
Ah, Vladivostok FM. They had some really good music in there. I discovered Dolphin that way. What a revelation that was. Very funny reading about (listening to) his stuff in Malchishnik, even though I can't say I really liked that music. You'd never guess from his solo act that that was where he started.
 
NoTime

NoTime

Member
Oct 30, 2017
250
Idoru said:
After having played this game I feel like they were saying this in jest. It's extremely rare to hear baltic people talk positive about communism without it being completely drenched in sarcasm.

What shocks me is how many people cheer and profess their love to Marx/Engels on this board, again and again.
Take this from someone who comes from a country that suffered heavily under the ideas of both these assholes through a completely insane hardcore-communist regime.
I feel like only people who never properly learned about the consequences would cheer for this. You're not bad people, just uneducated.

My heart goes out to all the victims of communism. All the people annihilated by genocide. Calling Marx and Engels great might be true in a vacuum, but not after the destruction their legacy brought to the world in such a short time. How about telling the estimated 100 million people killed under communist regimes about how much you love them?

And before anyone thinks to call me a nazi. I am not. It doesn't have to be said that those people are absolute shitstains on human history.
I've always been center-left politically and will always be. I just always expect better from my fellow leftists. And more often than not I get disappointed by the international community.
I'm just happy that my country learned from it's complete history and is fighting hard not to fall into either political extreme ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Great post. As a person who lives in a country that suffered though the regime it is really baffling to see support for these people, I couldn't have said better myself.
 
irradiance

irradiance

Member
Oct 30, 2017
723
MrNewVegas said:
Alt right will be taking a turn on their socialist communist game anyyyyy moment now
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
In my view, and in the view of my gaming theorist father who went to game design school, there are three elements to games. There is exploration, there is combat, and there is challenge.

Disco Elysium only fulfils one of these, the exploration section. There's not a lot of combat and there's not a lot of challenge. And thus, effectively, it is basically guided exploration. It's not actually a form of game. Thus, beyond the objectivity of me just not enjoying Disco Elysium all that much, what I've said before is that Disco Elysium is not a game.
 

Deleted member 2752

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,110
Idoru said:
After having played this game I feel like they were saying this in jest. It's extremely rare to hear baltic people talk positive about communism without it being completely drenched in sarcasm.

What shocks me is how many people cheer and profess their love to Marx/Engels on this board, again and again.
Take this from someone who comes from a country that suffered heavily under the ideas of both these assholes through a completely insane hardcore-communist regime.
I feel like only people who never properly learned about the consequences would cheer for this. You're not bad people, just uneducated.

My heart goes out to all the victims of communism. All the people annihilated by genocide. Calling Marx and Engels great might be true in a vacuum, but not after the destruction their legacy brought to the world in such a short time. How about telling the estimated 100 million people killed under communist regimes about how much you love them?

And before anyone thinks to call me a nazi. I am not. It doesn't have to be said that those people are absolute shitstains on human history.
I've always been center-left politically and will always be. I just always expect better from my fellow leftists. And more often than not I get disappointed by the international community.
I'm just happy that my country learned from it's complete history and is fighting hard not to fall into either political extreme ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, you'll have a hard time to find Estonians with positive views on the Soviet Union or communism. I hope that's not the impression people get.

Fujibayoshi said:
I read news regarding games on a daily basis and never heard of that game. It won four awards, which is kind of funny.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Follow more diverse sites then, it's been talked about a lot and it was a topseller on Steam for a while.

irradiance said:
In my view, and in the view of my gaming theorist father who went to game design school, there are three elements to games. There is exploration, there is combat, and there is challenge.

Disco Elysium only fulfils one of these, the exploration section. There's not a lot of combat and there's not a lot of challenge. And thus, effectively, it is basically guided exploration. It's not actually a form of game. Thus, beyond the objectivity of me just not enjoying Disco Elysium all that much, what I've said before is that Disco Elysium is not a game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I have never heard of that definition, but even that only works if you have outdated narrow views on what constitutes a challenge or "combat".
 
Last edited:
CelticKennedy

CelticKennedy

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 18, 2019
1,883
Idoru said:
After having played this game I feel like they were saying this in jest. It's extremely rare to hear baltic people talk positive about communism without it being completely drenched in sarcasm.

What shocks me is how many people cheer and profess their love to Marx/Engels on this board, again and again.
Take this from someone who comes from a country that suffered heavily under the ideas of both these assholes through a completely insane hardcore-communist regime.
I feel like only people who never properly learned about the consequences would cheer for this. You're not bad people, just uneducated.

My heart goes out to all the victims of communism. All the people annihilated by genocide. Calling Marx and Engels great might be true in a vacuum, but not after the destruction their legacy brought to the world in such a short time. How about telling the estimated 100 million people killed under communist regimes about how much you love them?

And before anyone thinks to call me a nazi. I am not. It doesn't have to be said that those people are absolute shitstains on human history.
I've always been center-left politically and will always be. I just always expect better from my fellow leftists. And more often than not I get disappointed by the international community.
I'm just happy that my country learned from it's complete history and is fighting hard not to fall into either political extreme ever again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well said. I agree. Some of the ideas are nice but it never seems to work out in practice.
 
Bramblebutt

Bramblebutt

Banned
Jan 11, 2018
1,858
irradiance said:
In my view, and in the view of my gaming theorist father who went to game design school, there are three elements to games. There is exploration, there is combat, and there is challenge.

Disco Elysium only fulfils one of these, the exploration section. There's not a lot of combat and there's not a lot of challenge. And thus, effectively, it is basically guided exploration. It's not actually a form of game. Thus, beyond the objectivity of me just not enjoying Disco Elysium all that much, what I've said before is that Disco Elysium is not a game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
does your dad work for nintendo
 

Deleted member 5129

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,263
irradiance said:
In my view, and in the view of my gaming theorist father who went to game design school, there are three elements to games. There is exploration, there is combat, and there is challenge.

Disco Elysium only fulfils one of these, the exploration section. There's not a lot of combat and there's not a lot of challenge. And thus, effectively, it is basically guided exploration. It's not actually a form of game. Thus, beyond the objectivity of me just not enjoying Disco Elysium all that much, what I've said before is that Disco Elysium is not a game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Not a game? lol
 
Hektor

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
This reminds me of those people who proclaim to be experts because they "studied politics/history/whatever" but neglect to mention that they dropped out after first the semeseter
 
MilkBeard

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,780
irradiance said:
In my view, and in the view of my gaming theorist father who went to game design school, there are three elements to games. There is exploration, there is combat, and there is challenge.

Disco Elysium only fulfils one of these, the exploration section. There's not a lot of combat and there's not a lot of challenge. And thus, effectively, it is basically guided exploration. It's not actually a form of game. Thus, beyond the objectivity of me just not enjoying Disco Elysium all that much, what I've said before is that Disco Elysium is not a game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's such a narrow view on gaming. I cannot even fathom approaching games with such a limited mindset.

I'm hoping that this is played ironically and I just missed it somehow.
 
spam musubi

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MilkBeard said:
That's such a narrow view on gaming. I cannot even fathom approaching games with such a limited mindset.

I'm hoping that this is played ironically and I just missed it somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There are so many people on here (and outside) who actually think this so it's very easy to take at face value. It's a very sad mindset but I ain't got the time to feel bad for miserable people.
 
Lunaray

Lunaray

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,731
irradiance said:
In my view, and in the view of my gaming theorist father who went to game design school, there are three elements to games. There is exploration, there is combat, and there is challenge.

Disco Elysium only fulfils one of these, the exploration section. There's not a lot of combat and there's not a lot of challenge. And thus, effectively, it is basically guided exploration. It's not actually a form of game. Thus, beyond the objectivity of me just not enjoying Disco Elysium all that much, what I've said before is that Disco Elysium is not a game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Please tell me this is pasta. No combat = not a game? lol.

Edit: Nvm, t'was a joke. It's so hard to tell satire on the internet because I've seen these opinions proffered in earnest.
 
Aaron D.

Aaron D.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,311
irradiance said:
In my view, and in the view of my gaming theorist father who went to game design school, there are three elements to games. There is exploration, there is combat, and there is challenge.

Disco Elysium only fulfils one of these, the exploration section. There's not a lot of combat and there's not a lot of challenge. And thus, effectively, it is basically guided exploration. It's not actually a form of game. Thus, beyond the objectivity of me just not enjoying Disco Elysium all that much, what I've said before is that Disco Elysium is not a game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Is this a meme I'm not aware of?
 
mario_O

mario_O

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,755
irradiance said:
In my view, and in the view of my gaming theorist father who went to game design school, there are three elements to games. There is exploration, there is combat, and there is challenge.

Disco Elysium only fulfils one of these, the exploration section. There's not a lot of combat and there's not a lot of challenge. And thus, effectively, it is basically guided exploration. It's not actually a form of game. Thus, beyond the objectivity of me just not enjoying Disco Elysium all that much, what I've said before is that Disco Elysium is not a game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Errr, no. Not only you explore, you also roleplay. Upgrade stats, and dialog options that open different branches. That's playing.

Wait, this is a new meme? "Gaming theorist" really sounds like a meme.
 
irradiance

irradiance

Member
Oct 30, 2017
723
Lunaray said:
Please tell me this is pasta. No combat = not a game? lol.

Edit: Nvm, t'was a joke. It's so hard to tell satire on the internet because I've seen these opinions proffered in earnest.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
For reference, https://www.xxlmag.com/news/2019/09/ben-shapiro-rap-isnt-music/
"In my view, and in the view of my music theorist father who went to music school, there are three elements to music. There is harmony, there is melody and there is rhythm," Shapiro said at the 30:00 minute mark of the interview. "Rap only fulfills one of these, the rhythm section. There's not a lot of melody and there's not a lot of harmony. And thus, effectively, it is basically spoken rhythm. It's not actually a form of music. It's a form of rhythmic speaking. Thus, beyond the objectivity of me just not enjoying rap all that much, what I've said before is that rap is not music."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Equippedwithtowel

Equippedwithtowel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
Jakisthe said:
So the development of what communism might look like happened in a way completely unrelated to the Communist Manifesto? There are no aspects of the economic structure which might be said to be closer or farther in relation to the ideas he generated, regardless of if he pointed in a specific direction?

I guess I can appreciate that he pointed to things like child labor/education, but I'm a little lost otherwise when people say things like "there was never meant to be capital". Not necessarily because I know that's not what he meant, or that's specifically right or wrong, but because if he didn't have a specific arc to his writing, where are these ideas coming from, and from there, which of these ideas I keep hearing are the most correct implementation of this continued arc.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The Communist Manifesto is a political pamphlet, it was campaign literature not scholarly work. Marx is well regarded in the social sciences because The Grundisse, A Contribution to a Critique of the Political Economy and his multi volume opus Capital are canonical texts in the study of economics and political economy.

It seems like they respect him as a writer and a philosopher
 
svacina

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
PtM said:
So the game is a text adventure?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
With stats. Which talk to you.

Basically, it's PS:T without the most shite parts (ie the horrendous RTwP combat). It even slightly falls apart at the end, just like PS:T, albeit because of different reasons (hint: it was too much combat in PS:T's case).
 

PtM

Banned
Dec 7, 2017
3,582
irradiance said:
In my view, and in the view of my gaming theorist father who went to game design school, there are three elements to games. There is exploration, there is combat, and there is challenge.

Disco Elysium only fulfils one of these, the exploration section. There's not a lot of combat and there's not a lot of challenge. And thus, effectively, it is basically guided exploration. It's not actually a form of game. Thus, beyond the objectivity of me just not enjoying Disco Elysium all that much, what I've said before is that Disco Elysium is not a game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Shoutout to walking simulator!
 
Jakisthe

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,561
Equippedwithtowel said:
The Communist Manifesto is a political pamphlet, it was campaign literature not scholarly work. Marx is well regarded in the social sciences because The Grundisse, A Contribution to a Critique of the Political Economy and his multi volume opus Capital are canonical texts in the study of economics and political economy.

It seems like they respect him as a writer and a philosopher
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Fair enough, but this again brings my back to my original point: what are the defining operational mechanics for the school of economic thought derived from his works, because multiple suggested aspects keep popping up along that line across these discussions and it's exceedingly unclear what is and what is not a proper implementation of the core concepts on a non-theoretical level.

Somewhere along the way the broad stokes began pointing to things beyond just the likes of child care and education, and I'm trying to figure out what the actual, tangible concepts are on a fundamental, on-the-ground level.
 
Last edited:
JetstreamRorschach

JetstreamRorschach

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 30, 2017
1,820
Zaragoza, Spain.
All those comments in defense of the poor and the dead sound quite ironic when there are people dying in the streets and the poor have been fed on red terror for a hundred years. It took long for Capital to realize that cultural hegemony was a much better weapon than fascism.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.