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ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
Yeah this is bad.

It's not a one time activation.
I had an "activated" disc, which worked fine offline.

I uninstalled that disc.
Reinstalled the disc.
Now it needs to activate again.

I didn't even restart the console.

Again, maybe an issue caused because my console isn't my home console but it shouldn't matter.

I'm assuming this is less 'an activation' and more that it needs to download a small config file or similar to make the thing work on a console it was never designed to work on. Deleting the game would (should) delete all files associated with it. I would assume that, yes, you'd need that file again if you tried to install it after deleting it.
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,439
Seems like BC is based on whitelisting and you get an individual whitelist for each game on first boot while connected online.
 

Deleted member 2379

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,739
So Xbox One BC (as in OG Xbox and Xbox 360 games on an Xbox One) have always required the Internet to work since they launched BC. That's because they don't actually install from the disc at all. You put the disc in and it downloads the BC working version of the game in a wrapper that allows it to run on an Xbox One/Series X. The disc is literally just a key. The console cannot run the games from the disc, it requires a new version (which obviously needs to be downloaded). That's how this has always worked. It's why MS can unlock frame rates and etc. their because solution is great because they can make tweaks to it. They likely have small configs that download when the game is installed to make it work. The hardware calls to the server looking for what it needed to run

What's new here is a one time check-in to activate Xbox One BC after installing from a disc. I can confirm that this happens, I just went offline and installed Blazblue (one of the few disc XB1 games I own!) and it asked my to go online to finish the installation. I'm assuming, like with 360 and OG Xbox BC, the Series X needs some kind of patch/config file to have the game work on the new hardware? If the bare disc installation is looking for an Xbox One then I guess it's not seeing one and you might need an additional config file to fix it. I dunno.

Isnt MS back compat plan essentially to allow you to re pull down XBO games That can have tweaks. Isn't that why their because solution has so many improvements? It's software.

I'm not sure how an old game not working on a different console is considered game preservation. If they deactivated it on the original console I get it, but this is a game preserver complaining about a game not working out of the gate for a console it wasn't designed for a bit dense?
 

Azerth

Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,176
Yeah this is bad.

It's not a one time activation.
I had an "activated" disc, which worked fine offline.

I uninstalled that disc.
Reinstalled the disc.
Now it needs to activate again.

I didn't even restart the console.

Again, maybe an issue caused because my console isn't my home console but it shouldn't matter.
i mean its still 1 time you just uninstalled that one time check
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,439
Isnt MS back compat plan essentially to allow you to re pull down XBO games That can have tweaks. Isn't that why their because solution has so many improvements? It's software.

I'm not sure how an old game not working on a different console is considered game preservation. If they deactivated it on the original console I get it, but this is a game preserver complaining about a game not working out of the gate for a console it wasn't designed for a bit dense?
Their BC is mainly hardware.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
I'm assuming this is less 'an activation' and more that it needs to download a small config file or similar to make the thing work on a console it was never designed to work on. Deleting the game would (should) delete all files associated with it. I would assume that, yes, you'd need that file again if you tried to install it after deleting it.
Wonder if the install from the disc is used at all. But yeah, sounds like i said earlier, its not a check-in, there's a registry it connects to and downloads patch/file/executable to make it work on XSX and its new features.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,945
Ok I have two disc based 360 games, Batman Arkham Origins and Assassins Creed Rogue I am testing this out on. Btw..my console is not set as the home console. My sons One S downstairs is the home console so that he can have access to my games.

I went offline to try and install

Batman Arkham Origins - won't recognize it and displays a link to a list of BC games

Goes online - still won't recognize and get the same error message.

Fired off a tweet to Xbox Support. This game was BC on Xbox One but only the disc version.

Goes offline. Puts in AC Rogue. Not recognized gives me same error as Batman.

Goes online. Pops disc back in, starts a 7GB patch which is going to be the full version of the game. So now I'm waiting....
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,351
Isnt MS back compat plan essentially to allow you to re pull down XBO games That can have tweaks. Isn't that why their because solution has so many improvements? It's software.

I'm not sure how an old game not working on a different console is considered game preservation. If they deactivated it on the original console I get it, but this is a game preserver complaining about a game not working out of the gate for a console it wasn't designed for a bit dense?

I would agree with that personally. As long as your Forza 5 disc (or whatever) installs fine on an Xbox One I'm not sure what a BC version requiring an update to work on a different, non-Xbox One console has to do with game preservation.
 

leburn98

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,637
It's one of three possibilities:
  • The Series X/S requires a small config or executable to run Xbox One titles. Unlike the XB1 and it's 360 BC, the Series X/S doesn't require the user to download the entire game.
  • Microsoft added this artificial requirement for some unknown reason
  • It's a bug/glitch
 

dem

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
900
I'm shocked anyone thinks this is an issue...

but then again... I guess I'm not.
 

elzeus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,887
User Warned - Inflammatory Comparisons
Jesus people are exposing themselves left and right in this thread...

My Series X is not my home console.

Their whole verification system revolves around the home console. People are trying to blow this up into a big deal with very little understanding of how things work... frankly it's disgusting and their following of a fox news type game influencer just adds to that.
 

Vervain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
291
Just tested this on my review unit after disconnecting from the internet and installing Okami HD. I get a 'Go online to finish installing it' message if I try to boot.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
the only difference is that u can install from a disc from an xbo game for series x vs og and 360.
everything else is the same as bc from xbo.

non issue
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,439
the only difference is that u can install from a disc from an xbo game for series x vs og and 360.
everything else is the same as bc from xbo.

non issue
It's not the same. Otherwise it would require modified executables to run the game at all and you couldn't run the base disc version.
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,356
I'm shocked anyone thinks this is an issue...

but then again... I guess I'm not.
Physical games you own that aren't internet dependent not working because your internet connection drops out is a problem. I understand most people are always online, but I hate the thought of games you own being locked out because you cant connect to microsoft servers.

Hopefully this is just a bug.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,945
It's one of three possibilities:
  • The Series X/S requires a small config or executable to run Xbox One titles. Unlike the XB1 and it's 360 BC, the Series X/S doesn't require the user to download the entire game.
  • Microsoft added this artificial requirement for some unknown reason
  • It's a bug/glitch

Your first point is a no.

I just popped in AC Rogue Xbox 360 disc into the Series X and it's downloading the full game. Either that or 6.97GB is a hell of a big patch.
 

Vervain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
291
Your first point is a no.

I just popped in AC Rogue Xbox 360 disc into the Series X and it's downloading the full game. Either that or 6.97GB is a hell of a big patch.

Trying Okami HD, after reconnecting the game tried to install a 4gb update.

I cancelled the update, went back offline, and booted the game without issue.

It's definitely not redownloading entire games to make them bootable or executable.
 

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,618
Are we sure it's just that they don't have the console set as their home console? Could be a common mistake when moving to New hardware. Their old Xbox one is probably still set as their home device. Aka their offline device. Or maybe that doesn't even matter for physical discs idk.
 

dom

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,439
Are we sure it's just that they don't have the console set as their home console? Could be a common mistake when moving to New hardware. Their old Xbox one is probably still set as their home device. Aka their offline device. Or maybe that doesn't even matter for physical discs idk.
This has nothing to do with that.
 

leburn98

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,637
I would agree with that personally. As long as your Forza 5 disc (or whatever) installs fine on an Xbox One I'm not sure what a BC version requiring an update to work on a different, non-Xbox One console has to do with game preservation.
As someone who is pro physical media, this is a non-issue. If you want to preserve and future proof your games, keep your original hardware. The one argument that could be made is with digital games, as the games would be lost forever should your original hardware die and Xbox Live is no longer supported on that hardware.

Having said all of this, if this turns out to be an unnecessary I believe Microsoft should remove it.
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,356
Your first point is a no.

I just popped in AC Rogue Xbox 360 disc into the Series X and it's downloading the full game. Either that or 6.97GB is a hell of a big patch.
When you put in an Original Xbox or Xbox 360 game disc Microsoft reads the disc and then downloads the entire game from their servers.
This requires you to be online for obvious reasons. This is how it also works on Xbox One.

When you put an Xbox One game into the system it installs the data directly from the disc. This is how DF is able to play unpatched versions of games. The problem people are having is you install that game offline you can't play it until it goes online. This is different than how it works on Xbox One. On Xbox One you can install a game disc offline and it will play.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,831
It's one of three possibilities:
  • The Series X/S requires a small config or executable to run Xbox One titles. Unlike the XB1 and it's 360 BC, the Series X/S doesn't require the user to download the entire game.
  • Microsoft added this artificial requirement for some unknown reason
  • It's a bug/glitch
Yes, this is the situation.


Jesus people are exposing themselves left and right in this thread...



Their whole verification system revolves around the home console. People are trying to blow this up into a big deal with very little understanding of how things work... frankly it's disgusting and their following of a fox news type game influencer just adds to that.

You are correct that their digital verification revolves around the home console concept. I am very aware of this.

There are 3 ways to verify ownership of am Xbox One game on an Xbox One:
Disc in the tray
Home console (when offline)
Signed in online (when not on home console)

What we're investigating is the change to disc authentication when installing on Series X, which now requires a one time online activation in addition to the disc in the tray.

If it's a required configuration file download then that's unfortunate but understandable.
If it's a bug, then hopefully it gets fixed.
 

Vervain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
291
Are we sure it's just that they don't have the console set as their home console? Could be a common mistake when moving to New hardware. Their old Xbox one is probably still set as their home device. Aka their offline device. Or maybe that doesn't even matter for physical discs idk.

I definitely don't have my console set as my home console, but to be perfectly honest that absolutely shouldn't matter in my eyes (from an ideological perspective, as opposed to how the systemmay work)
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,356
As someone who is pro physical media, this is a non-issue. If you want to preserve and future proof your games, keep your original hardware. The one argument that could be made is with digital games, as the games would be lost forever should your original hardware die and Xbox Live is no longer supported on that hardware.

Having said all of this, if this turns out to be an unnecessary I believe Microsoft should remove it.
I assume most people that get a series x will most likely sell their original hardware. Microsoft has put a lot of time telling people all their old games would work no problem on the new hardware, so its not hard to assume why people would expect series x to be able to install and play xbox one games offline just like one x.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
It's not the same. Otherwise it would require modified executables to run the game at all and you couldn't run the base disc version.
I literally stated the only difference is you can install from disc. In order to run ANY 360/OG game you need to download it from internet. With that, it MOST Likely has something that let's it run the game and only require the disc based license. This same thing is MOST LIKELY required for XBO titles.

So where is exactly like BC from OG and 360? You need to be connected to the internet when installing. It's a non issue and most likely by design.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,945
When you put in an Original Xbox or Xbox 360 game disc Microsoft reads the disc and then downloads the entire game from their servers.
This requires you to be online for obvious reasons. This is how it also works on Xbox One.

When you put an Xbox One game into the system it installs the data directly from the disc. This is how DF is able to play unpatched versions of games. The problem people are having is you install that game offline you can't play it until it goes online. This is different than how it works on Xbox One. On Xbox One you can install a game disc offline and it will play.

I attempted to install AC Rogue directly from disc while offline and it wouldn't allow me to do it. I had to be online before it would install.

This seems to be different than what DF was able
to do so something has changed between then and now.
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,356
I attempted to install AC Rogue directly from disc while offline and it wouldn't allow me to do it. I had to be online before it would install.

This seems to be different than what DF was able
to do so something has changed between then and now.
Really? I thought you could install xbox one games from the discs. So does it need to download everything from Microsoft side?
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,215
I attempted to install AC Rogue directly from disc while offline and it wouldn't allow me to do it. I had to be online before it would install.

This seems to be different than what DF was able
to do so something has changed between then and now.
DF still installed from disc, was online to "activate BC"... then played unpatched version by most likely going into offline mode. They just didn't update the title. Simple.
 

jsnepo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,648
It's odd that you need to download a license that will be tied to an account for a DISC game to work. This is indeed DRM for disc based games albeit for a console the games weren't designed for. Is this an issue? Perhaps to those who care about preservation. For most users, this is a no biggie.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,365
This implementation of "BC" is just horrible. There are no words.

Yeah this one thing completely negates literally everything positive about the Xbox BC and thus renders it "horrible". Jesus christ, ease up on the hyperbole and get a grip.

On topic, this is not ideal for someone who lives on a nuclear submarine or wherever all those people back in 2013 lived (but hey, they had a product for them and it was called the Xbox 360 lol) but let's be honest with ourselves here. 99.9% of people using a modern console, be it the Xbox or PS5, they're gonna have access to the internet and this is a non-issue, basically. Also i hate to break it to all the pearl clutchers out there but our consoles have been online only for years now, ever since publishers realised they could ship games that were a technical mess that could be tidied up with a day 1 patch, i.e. everyone.
 

Transistor

Vodka martini, dirty, with Tito's please
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,126
Washington, D.C.
Why is a one time online check even required if you are using a physical disc? What complete nonsense. I feel bad for the people who bought a Series X without this being revealed if it's in fact working as intended.

And if working as intended, how did not a single reviewer with early access catch this to inform the public?
It's most likely some sort of configuration file that ensures compatibility or something.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,127
Chile
Are there Disc Only BC titles, right? Like Battlefield Bad Company 1? How does it work there?
 

K' Dash

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
4,156
Why is a one time online check even required if you are using a physical disc? What complete nonsense. I feel bad for the people who bought a Series X without this being revealed if it's in fact working as intended.

And if working as intended, how did not a single reviewer with early access catch this to inform the public?

You need to chill, stop the drama and let's wait for an official source to tell us what's going on.