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Digital Foundry: Zen 2/Navi PC vs Xbox One X/PS4 Pro - How Much More Performance Could We Get?

Mecha Meister

Mecha Meister

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Oct 25, 2017
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Digital Foundry (Article): We built a 'next-gen' Zen 2/Navi-based PC - how much faster is it than current-gen consoles?

There's much we don't know about PS5 and Project Scarlett: special GPU features, shader counts, ray-tracing implementation etc. But we do know that the machine is based on Zen 2 CPU and Navi GPU architecture... and with Ryzen 7 3700X, Radeon RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT we can deliver a generational comparison... with some fascinating results. Many thanks to Asus ROG for building this PC for us, and to IO Interactive for sharing the PC equivalent settings for Hitman 2 on every console!
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Next Gen Console PC Concept Build
  • CPU - Ryzen 7 3700X at 3.2GHz (Underclocked)
  • Motherboard - Asus ROG Strix B450F
  • GPU - RX 5700 XT
  • Storage - NVME SSD
Cinebench R15

Athlon 5370 at 1.6GHz (Jaguar CPU Core x 4)
  • 1T (Single thread) - 35
  • MT (Multi thread) - 128
  • 8 core (Projected, 100% scaling assumption) - 256
Athlon 5370 at 2.3GHz (Jaguar CPU Core x 4)
  • 1T (Single thread) - 49
  • MT (Multi thread) - 183
  • 8 core (Projected, 100% scaling assumption - 366
Richard also makes a comparison with Intel's 2008 Quad-core CPU, the Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600.
Intel Q6600 Stock (2.4GHz Quad Core)
MT (Multi-thread) - 245

Ryzen 7 3700X at 2.3GHz
  • 1T (Single thread) - 110 (2.24X faster than 1.6GHz Jaguar)
  • MT (Multi thread) - 618 (3.37x faster than 1.6GHz Jaguar)
  • Octo-Core Score - 1220 (4.76x faster than 1.6GHz Jaguar)
Ryzen 7 3700X at 3.2GHz
  • 1T (Single thread) - 152 (3.1x faster than 2.3GHz Jaguar)
  • MT (Multi thread) - 868 (4.74x faster than 2.3GHz Jaguar)
  • Octo-Core Score - 1702 (4.65x faster than 2.3GHz Jaguar)
Gaming Performance
This was performed by using console equivalent settings, Alex contribtuied in finding the console equivalent settings for Hitman 2, IO Interactive (the developers of the game) helped with this also.
  • PlayStation 4 PRO - 36 Compute Units at 911MHz (4.2 TF)
  • Xbox One X - 40 Compute Units at 1172 MHz (6 Teraflops)
  • 5700 - NAVI GPU featuring 36 Compute Units at 1800MHz (8.29 TF)
  • 5700 XT - NAVI GPU featuring 40 Compute Units at 1800MHz (9.2 Teraflops)
Hitman 2
  • 5700 vs PS4 Pro - The 5700 is 126% faster at 1440p (around 2.26x faster)
  • 5700 XT vs Xbox One X - The 5700 XT is 83% faster at 4K (1.83x faster)
Wolfenstein 2: The New Colossus

X6b3n8b.png

  • 5700 vs PS4 Pro - The 5700 is around 3x faster at 1440p
  • 5700 XT vs Xbox One X - The 5700 XT is around 2x faster at 4K
Richard also brings up Alex's latest video where he tests Star Citizen and showcases the loading times on an NVME SSD and a 7200 RPM RAID 0 HDD configuration, this game is basically designed to run on SSDs and has long loading times and poor performance on Hard Disk Drives, in his video it took almost 11x more time to load into the game with the Hard Drives. The game is also constantly streaming in data for the highly detailed game world.

Star Citizen loading times (Universe mode)
RAID 0 HDD - 3:24.47 seconds
XPG SX8200 PRO NVME SSD - 19:32 seconds.

I must stress that this game is still in development and is currently in an alpha phase, however there are many advanced things taking place in Star Citizen. It's also what could be considered to be the most ambitious game in development, which showcases the potential of hardware that transcends current generation consoles.
 
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Theorry

Theorry

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Oct 27, 2017
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Performance looking good. A certain taxing level in Wolfenstein 2 is 44fps on the X and on the Navi build 90fps.

All i want out of next gen at the start is the kind of graphics we have for example on X but at a locked 60fps. For all type of games.
 
MrKlaw

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Oct 25, 2017
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Actual performance should be much better though with games targeting that spec as a baseline, factoring in SD speeds, and faster overall ram (assuming that GPU doesn't have 16GB of GDDR)
 
Stickman

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Twice the GPU power of the One X plus the many times more powerful CPU and the fast SSD. Midrange PCs will be hard to make an argument for just in terms of performance and graphics.
 
modiz

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so DF seems to guess Xbox Scarlett's GPU to be something around 9TF that they demonstrated with the 5700XT clocked at 1800MHz, and performs at around 2X of the X1X. maybe the reason they said they expected 12TF originally was because they heard 2X faster than X1X (before we knew of the major architectural gains of Navi)? iirc also thurrott said before E3 Anaconda (now just xbox Scarlett as there is no lockhart anymore), that the performance multiplier from X1X will be 2x.
 
rokkerkory

rokkerkory

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Theorry said:
Performance looking good. A certain taxing level in Wolfenstein 2 is 44fps on the X and on the Navi build 90fps.

All i want out of next gen at the start is the kind of graphics we have for example on X but at a locked 60fps. For all type of games.
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It is prob safe to say that would be the floor for next gen
 
Lobster Roll

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Those Jaguar CPUs in the XB1X and PS4P are are absolutely pathetic by 2019 standards. The next-gen upgrade the CPU and the inclusion of an SSD alone are going to provide enormous performance boosts from current gen. They could even leave the GPUs the same and people would be blown away.
 
'V'

'V'

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May 19, 2018
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Makes me wonder if the next generation console GPUs are right in front of us and we don't realise it. 5700 for PS5 and 5700XT for Scarlett. It makes sense to me based on what Mark Cerny said a few years back when interviewed about the PS4PRO when he said something along the lines of having the same CU count when emulating another console is very important because of compatibility and stuff (which is why the PS4 PRO turns off half its CUs when playing non enhanced PS4 games unless boost mode is on). 36 CU in the 5700 matches up with the active CUs in the PRO and 40 CU in the 5700XT matches up with the active CU in the XB1X.

The PS5 having a slightly weaker GPU in terms of CU also might be why there are rumours going around saying Sony are pushing clocks to the max in the PS5 (1.8-2ghz).
 
DriftingSpirit

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Anthony Hopkins said:
I think the next gens will be 8-10tf.

Anything higher is just not realistic.
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I think it is a 9-11TF range with 10TF being most likely but your range is plausible as well.

Lobster Roll said:
Those Jaguar CPUs in the XB1X and PS4P are are absolutely pathetic by 2019 standards. The next-gen upgrade the CPU and the inclusion of an SSD alone are going to provide enormous performance boosts from current gen. They could even leave the GPUs the same and people would be blown away.
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We really need a breakdown for the CPU difference because I don't think people understand.
 
JahIthBer

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MrKlaw said:
Actual performance should be much better though with games targeting that spec as a baseline, factoring in SD speeds, and faster overall ram (assuming that GPU doesn't have 16GB of GDDR)
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One of the leak benchmarks showed PS5's CPU performance around Ryzen 1700 level, i think PS5/Scarlet having a full unlocked desktop Ryzen 3700x isn't too accurate or even possible, they will use more laptop variants due to the SOC with at least one core/thread disabled.
 
Akai

Akai

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Oct 25, 2017
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Downclocking a 3700X to 2.3Ghz...

4HctlI3.jpg


Joking aside... Those are some pretty good results. That Hitman 2 comparison is actually pretty interesting, due to IO sharing the propper console specs with DF.

Lobster Roll said:
Those Jaguar CPUs in the XB1X and PS4P are are absolutely pathetic by 2019 standards. The next-gen upgrade the CPU and the inclusion of an SSD alone are going to provide enormous performance boosts from current gen. They could even leave the GPUs the same and people would be blown away.
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Too late for that, since they are even targeting 8K resolutions (which I think is pretty unneccessary). But then again, I'm really not a graphics type of person anyways and I'm way more excited about Leadbetter's SSD mention at the end there.
 
DriftingSpirit

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Akai said:
Too late for that, since they are even targeting 8K resolutions (which I think is pretty unneccessary). But then again, I'm really not a graphics type of person anyways and I'm way more excited about Leadbetter's SSD mention at the end there.
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They will be targeting 4K. 8K is mentioned because it can be supported for things like the UI, maybe small indie games, etc... It is just a good bulletpoint to have.
 
zombiejames

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Oct 25, 2017
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Very nice gains. Combined with the closed nature of consoles and devs squeezing every ounce of that power over time, this is a going to be a huge leap. Can't fucking wait.
 

Scently

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Oct 27, 2017
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modiz said:
so DF seems to guess Xbox Scarlett's GPU to be something around 9TF that they demonstrated with the 5700XT clocked at 1800MHz, and performs at around 2X of the X1X. maybe the reason they said they expected 12TF originally was because they heard 2X faster than X1X (before we knew of the major architectural gains of Navi)? iirc also thurrott said before E3 Anaconda (now just xbox Scarlett as there is no lockhart anymore), that the performance multiplier from X1X will be 2x.
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They are not guessing at any specific machine of the next gen consoles. Just a general impression of what both systems might be based on available information and comparing it to this gen's consoles to get an idea of what we can expect.
 

Fredrik

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Oct 27, 2017
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DriftingSpirit said:
They will be targeting 4K. 8K is mentioned because it can be supported for things like the UI, maybe small indie games, etc... It is just a good bulletpoint to have.
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HDR is awesome but 4K is the worst use of system resources ever, unless you sit at a desk with the screen right infront of you. I'm sitting 3 meter from my 65" TV, unless I move closer I notice the 4K resolution in Xbox One X games by the HDMI input info from the TV rather than what's actually shown. And now they're talking about 8K... :/
 
jett

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Fredrik said:
HDR is awesome but 4K is the worst use of system resources ever, unless you sit at a desk with the screen right infront of you. I'm sitting 3 meter from my 65" TV, unless I move closer I notice the 4K resolution in Xbox One X games by the HDMI input info from the TV rather than what's actually shown. And now they're talking about 8K... :/
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Indeed. Developers should be targeting higher framerates and not native 4K. I can't think of a bigger fucking waste of resources.
 
MrBob

MrBob

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Oct 25, 2017
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A real CPU and built in SSD. I wasn't a fan of the PS4 or Xbox one hardware from day one (even though devs have done great things with underwhelming hardware) but I'm pretty excited for these new consoles. I think they will offer a bigger leap from current gen than what PS4 and Xbox One were to PS3 and 360.

Fredrik said:
HDR is awesome but 4K is the worst use of system resources ever, unless you sit at a desk with the screen right infront of you. I'm sitting 3 meter from my 65" TV, unless I move closer I notice the 4K resolution in Xbox One X games by the HDMI input info from the TV rather than what's actually shown. And now they're talking about 8K... :/
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Yeah I compare games at 1800P (3200 X 1800) and native 4K from my PC and there is hardly any difference at all on my 65" TV. I have to get up really close to see 1800P is a little softer but sitting 8 feet back you cant tell the difference. Native 4K is definitely a waste a resources unless you can hit 60fps locked with it.
 
DriftingSpirit

DriftingSpirit

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Anthony Hopkins said:
I think going above 8tf will require more power then a 1x, so when u start to go above 10, these boxes will need some serious cooling.
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I think that will be the case. The cooling will be top tier and the vents of course.
Fredrik said:
HDR is awesome but 4K is the worst use of system resources ever, unless you sit at a desk with the screen right infront of you. I'm sitting 3 meter from my 65" TV, unless I move closer I notice the 4K resolution in Xbox One X games by the HDMI input info from the TV rather than what's actually shown. And now they're talking about 8K... :/
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Trust me, I'm right there with ya. I think (or hope) devs will prioritize reconstruction techniques for 4K. That will be just as good as native 4K and it gives them more room with performance.
 
evrythngwastakn

evrythngwastakn

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Their test PC is almost identical to the one I'm building now.... almost makes me think I should bail outta PC gaming and save myself the $1000 to buy next gen with.
 
Akai

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DriftingSpirit said:
They will be targeting 4K. 8K is mentioned because it can be supported for things like the UI, small indie games, etc... It is just a good bulletpoint to have.
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Stygr said:
Do you seriously believe in 8K res in games? lol
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Native 4K will obviously be the main target, but you'll still have some games that are going to try 8K (native, checkerboarded or dynamic), since the support/capability will be there. Gotta remember that Titanfall 2 is already hitting 6K on Xbox One X (even if it's only for a short moment apparently?), so it really isn't too far fetched to think that it could also hit 8K with an even stronger GPU.

I'd guess that specifically Xbox will try to extend their enhanced BC support and offer 8K options for selected games, but I wouldn't be suprised at all, if Sony tried to do this, as well.

jett said:
Indeed. Developers should be targeting higher framerates and not native 4K. I can't think of a bigger fucking waste of resources.
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Agreed.
 
Anthony Hopkins

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DriftingSpirit said:
I think that will be the case. The cooling will be top tier and the vents of course.
Trust me, I'm right there with ya. I think (or hope) devs will prioritize reconstruction techniques for 4K. That will be just as good as native 4K and it gives them more room with performance.
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It does not matter where the vents are or how they look, as long as they let air in or out efficiently that's all that matters.

For a 10tflop machine I think a heatsink, vapour chamber and fan about 25% bigger then the 1x's will be sufficient.

A better design cooling solution could also be implemented to.
I'm sure the engineers at sony/xbox can come up with solutions to adequately cool there machines.

Maybe they will have like a stack of vapour chamber pipes who knows lol.
 
SirBaron

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tobibreit said:
Twice the GPU power of the One X plus the many times more powerful CPU and the fast SSD. Midrange PCs will be hard to make an argument for just in terms of performance and graphics.
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That will be true if you look at it now but by the time the consoles are out not so much, then a year after no chance.
 
DriftingSpirit

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Akai said:
Native 4K will obviously be the main target, but you'll still have some games that are going to try 8K (native, checkerboarded or dynamic), since the support/capability will be there. Gotta remember that Titanfall 2 is already hitting 6K on Xbox One X (even if it's only for a short moment apparently?), so it really isn't too far fetched to think that it could also hit 8K with an even stronger GPU.

I'd guess that specifically Xbox will try to extend their enhanced BC support and offer 8K options for selected games, but I wouldn't be suprised at all, if Sony tried to do this, as well.
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We have to take into consideration how graphics, physics, etc... will jump a lot from this gen to next gen. It won't just be games that look like current games going up to 4K. So, accounting for those big improvements all around, native 4K alone will already be a tall order. Native 8K? Nah.

I think 8K will mostly be reserved for non-gaming applications.

Anthony Hopkins said:
It does not matter where the vents are or how they look, as long as they let air in or out efficiently that's all that matters.

For a 10tflop machine I think a heatsink, vapour chamber and fan about 25% bigger then the 1x's will be sufficient.

A better design cooling solution could also be implemented to.
I'm sure the engineers at sony/xbox can come up with solutions to adequately cool there machines.

Maybe they will have like a stack of vapour chamber pipes who knows lol.
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Of course. I was just saying a really good cooling solution in conjunction with vents will make 10TF+ feasible.
 
cappers

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I really enjoy these films, such a great team! When Richard starts the show, I aways find myself reminded of his articles in «Mean Machines» back at school when we saved every last penny to import the latest arcade perfect console game from Japan.

Anyway, my major takeaway was a massive boost in CPU, healthy GPU boost, and with SSD together the next generation should be not only considered based on TFLOPs but on what these components together, as a new baseline, can deliver. Alex's SC video was a good taste of what happens when the baseline is not hindered by PS4/XB1 being the lowest common denominator.

Anyway, always great fun watching DF!
 

Fredrik

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Oct 27, 2017
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DriftingSpirit said:
I think that will be the case. The cooling will be top tier and the vents of course.
Trust me, I'm right there with ya. I think (or hope) devs will prioritize reconstruction techniques for 4K. That will be just as good as native 4K and it gives them more room with performance.
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Yeah they should focus on image quality post-processing, ray-tracing and shaders instead. And framerates! I bet we'll still see some devs boasting about hitting native 8K as if it actually matters to anyone.
 
Dead Man Typing

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Great video. If the GPUs are ball parking twice the power of Xbox One X then that's more than i expected.

First time hearing the PS5 code name Prospero although apparently it's been floating around for a couple of weeks. I like it.
 
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